Author Topic: How Do I Get My Blade To 90*?  (Read 1847 times)

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Offline darita

  • Posts: 393
How Do I Get My Blade To 90*?
« on: January 24, 2023, 05:25 PM »
So I have a TSC55 KEB that I'm attempting to adjust the blade 90* to the table.  I'm just shy of 90*, however when I screw the stop screw CCW, all it does is lift.  I've tried flipping the 1* lever, but it still won't go down any further.  What am I missing?



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Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 2348
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90*?
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2023, 06:06 PM »
I'm confused by the first photo. What is going on there?

My first reaction to this type of question is simple. Are the cuts you make with the saw out of square?
If they are, you are focusing on a non-issue.
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Offline darita

  • Posts: 393
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90*?
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2023, 06:09 PM »
Before I use any saw, I go thru it and adjust everything as accurately as I can.  From that point on I know my cuts will be accurate and any aberrations in cuts are my error.

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 1714
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90*?
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2023, 06:21 PM »
What does a quality machinist square (or even a quality non-machinist square) say when you use it to measure for 90?

I don't know that I would take the 89.875 degrees from that particular readout as the gospel truth.  It sounds like an estimate at best.

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 2348
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90*?
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2023, 07:00 PM »
Before I use any saw, I go thru it and adjust everything as accurately as I can.  From that point on I know my cuts will be accurate and any aberrations in cuts are my error.

My point is that you might be adjusting it away from square. The actual cut is what matters.
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Offline Lincoln

  • Posts: 308
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90*?
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2023, 07:16 PM »
For that angle reader to accurately measure if your blade is square, you need to be certain that what ever the saw base is sitting on is at 0 degrees - which is next to impossible. So, you need to flip the reader onto the table top, zero it out, then flip it onto the saw blade.
But I agree with the above - do a rudimentary check with a square, then more importantly, check a piece you have cut.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 10275
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90º?
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2023, 07:47 PM »
Like others have said, make a cut and check the cut with an accurate square.

I did look at the Jingyan claims of accuracy & resolution and at first glance they are very extremely impressive.
Accuracy +/- .005º
Resolution .001º

However right underneath those specs they mention
Angle resolution: 0.1°
Angle accuracy: 0.5°

So I'm just curious what's real, especially for the $175 price tag. It'd be interesting to send it in for certification and find out where it lands.  [smile]
« Last Edit: January 25, 2023, 12:53 AM by Cheese »

Offline darita

  • Posts: 393
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90*?
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2023, 07:53 PM »
I assume you’re all correct, however I still want to know how it can be adjusted, assuming the meter is correct?

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5873
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90*?
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2023, 07:58 PM »
Following on… I’d put the cover back on the saw and make a cut and then test the cut for 90*.

This is a general procedure. I don’t have knowledge of that particular saw.

To make that test cut I’d find something thick, flat, and relatively soft, like two pieces of mdf laminated.
The workpiece should be secured to a stable bench or similar and the guide rail should be a shorter one and clamped to the work.

Unless the resulting cut is perfect you want as much of the testing apparatus to remain fixed (as a constant) as possible.

Of course you’ll have to remove the guide rail to test the cut. Put the thick handle of the engineer’s square against the cut edge. You can use feeler gauge to measure how much the blade is above the work and if you’re smarter than me you can use a calculator to figure out how much you need to change the angle of the saw.

Now you can apply the digital inclinometer to the saw. Make sure the saw is stable on a flat surface so the reading is steady. You don’t need to use the magnets just use a lightweight clamp to secure it to the blade housing. Doesn’t matter what the angle reads except that you want to reference that reading to adjust the saw the right amount according to the feeler gauge and calculator.

I’ve used two different digital inclinometers and they are can be deceptive. They aren’t as accurate or as reliable (repeatable) as the decimal places would lead you to believe. Some of them also a slower refresh rate meaning you can move the saw substantially before the readout changes. Not good. When it really counts I use a long stick clamped to the saw, as below.

When I really needed accurate angles I did use the digital device as a starting point and then used a 2 foot stick clamped to the housing to make very fine adjustments. Used a vernier protractor to test the cut angle then used cad to figure out how far to move the stick.



Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 10275
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90º?
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2023, 08:07 PM »
Well interestingly enough this is from the Festool TSC 55 KEB manual.

Both positions (0° and 45°) are set at the factory and can be readjusted by the cus­tomer service team.

« Last Edit: January 24, 2023, 08:13 PM by Cheese »

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5873
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90*?
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2023, 08:24 PM »
@Cheese where did you see the lower specs? I only see this “High accuracy ± 0.005 ° and 0.001 ° high resolution” at jingyan-tech.Com   If that thing is really that awesome I could forget about the stick.

I think the lower spec is for “gyro measurement”, when the instrument is spinning at “<50*/sec”, not something I need to do…
« Last Edit: January 24, 2023, 08:39 PM by Michael Kellough »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 10275
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90º?
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2023, 08:36 PM »
Scroll down to this area Michael

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125166516911

Specifications:
- Measuring range: single-axis mode: 0 to 360°; dual-axis mode: ±40°
- Product accuracy: 0 to 20°: ±(0.005°); 20° to 70°: ±(0.01°); 70° to 90°: ±(0.005°)
- Product resolution: 0.001°
- Gyroscope speed: <50°/sec
- Angle resolution: 0.1°
- Angle accuracy: 0.5°
« Last Edit: January 24, 2023, 08:39 PM by Cheese »

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5873
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90*?
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2023, 08:41 PM »
How do you even watch the display when it’s spinning?

Offline luvmytoolz

  • Posts: 385
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90º?
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2023, 08:46 PM »
Scroll down to this area Michael

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125166516911

Specifications:
- Measuring range: single-axis mode: 0 to 360°; dual-axis mode: ±40°
- Product accuracy: 0 to 20°: ±(0.005°); 20° to 70°: ±(0.01°); 70° to 90°: ±(0.005°)
- Product resolution: 0.001°
- Gyroscope speed: <50°/sec
- Angle resolution: 0.1°
- Angle accuracy: 0.5°

Curiously the auctions missing the standard disclaimer "This item may vary 1-3cm from that shown")! ;-)

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5873
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90*?
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2023, 08:49 PM »
Also on the plus side of darita’s device, in addition to the very high resolution, the display refreshes <.6 sec. That’s seems to be about twice as fast as my Wixey box, but I don’t think Wixey provides a spec for that.

Offline Reed Hoyer

  • Posts: 57
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90*?
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2023, 11:02 PM »
Here's some dude doing exactly what you're doing on the internet

.

You need to spin it clockwise so it'll push the blade to 90. Because your reference edge is the edge stuck to the blade you're looking at the supplementary angle of the bevel angle marked on the saw. You turn it ccw if you want to lessen the angle. I probably wouldn't trust that angle gauge as far as I could throw it.

I'd cut a 1.5" piece of wood and check for square with whatever square I'm using to build things.

Good luck.

-r

So I have a TSC55 KEB that I'm attempting to adjust the blade 90* to the table.  I'm just shy of 90*, however when I screw the stop screw CCW, all it does is lift.  I've tried flipping the 1* lever, but it still won't go down any further.  What am I missing?



« Last Edit: January 24, 2023, 11:13 PM by Reed Hoyer »

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 4254
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90º?
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2023, 11:25 PM »
Like others have said, make a cut and check the cut with an accurate square.

I did look at the Jingyan claims of accuracy & resolution and at first glance they are very extremely impressive.
Accuracy +/- .005º
Resolution .001º

However right underneath those specs they mention
Angle resolution: 0.1°
Angle accuracy: 0.5°

So I'm just curious what's real, especially for the $175 price tag. It'd be interesting to send it in for certification and find out where it lands.  [smile]

May be these are the actual parameters?
Angle resolution: 0.1°
Angle accuracy: 0.5°

My Beall inclinometer has this spec: "The display always reads left to right, even if inverted, and a "hold" button keeps the measurement for reference. It has a range of 90° left or right and a resolution of 0.05° (accurate to 0.2°)."

I use the Beall angle gauge to set the blade (SawStop or Kapex), and then verify the cuts made on scraps. The Beall device has been so consistent in its accuracy and performance that I now trust it as much as I trust any other reference measuring tools I have, such as the Starett Combo Square or the Australian CNC machined square.

89.875* is more than square for all woodworking intents and purposes.

« Last Edit: January 24, 2023, 11:27 PM by ChuckS »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 10275
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90º?
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2023, 12:48 AM »

May be these are the actual parameters?
Angle resolution: 0.1°
Angle accuracy: 0.5°

My Beall inclinometer has this spec: "The display always reads left to right, even if inverted, and a "hold" button keeps the measurement for reference. It has a range of 90° left or right and a resolution of 0.05° (accurate to 0.2°)."

I use the Beall angle gauge to set the blade (SawStop or Kapex), and then verify the cuts made on scraps. The Beall device has been so consistent in its accuracy and performance that I now trust it as much as I trust any other reference measuring tools I have, such as the Starett Combo Square or the Australian CNC machined square.

89.875* is more than square for all woodworking intents and purposes.

I don't know Chuck...and I really wish I had an answer but I'm completely dumbfounded. I keep an eye on the latest SOTA (state of the art) measuring systems because that's a thing of interest to me. Vision systems have been an ongoing interest of mine for the last 5-6 years and they just keep getting better, cheaper and easier to use.

This particular item, if the specs are factual and if the repeatability is factual, is certainly a one of a kind tool. However, I have no information if either one of those assumptions are correct. That's the reason this would be a very interesting item to send into an accredited QA certification lab for certification/calibration such as Starrett or Hexagon.

In some ways this reminds me of the audio equipment spec wars of the 70's & 80's when certain brands of predominantly Asian audio equipment would loudly proclaim that they produced 200 watts of power, but when subjected to strenuous testing under controlled conditions by McIntosh and Crown test labs...the amplifiers produced less than 20 watts of power.  [crying] [crying] [crying]

I'm hoping this is not the case, but I'm not very encouraged.  [crying] [crying]

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5873
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90*?
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2023, 10:19 AM »
I’d like to get confirmation of the Jingyan TLL-90S specs too. If it as fine as the website says it could replace the vernier protractor, which is only good to two decimal places.

Darita could put the instrument on the work surface and on the bevel and get the bevel angle directly. I do DO NOT trust my Wixey or Beale boxes enough to do that.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2023, 01:18 PM by Michael Kellough »

Offline darita

  • Posts: 393
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90*?
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2023, 11:09 AM »
I’d like to get confirmation of the Jingyan TLL-90S specs too. If it as fine as the website says it could replace the vernier protractor, which is only good to two decimal places.

Darita could put the instrument on the work surface and on the bevel and get the bevel angle directly. I do trust my Wixey or Beale boxes enough to do that.

Here's about the best I can do...it's a bit finicky on zeroing out...and the magnet is weak.




Offline darita

  • Posts: 393
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90*?
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2023, 11:45 AM »
Oh...do you mean the bevel angle of a work piece?  Tuff to do.

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 4254
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90*?
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2023, 12:20 PM »
The surface you put the device and combo square on doesn't look flat enough for me. Could you redo it on your table saw cast iron top? For that kind of accuracy test, you need "real flat" as a starting point. https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/marking-and-measuring/32526-granite-surface-plate

Offline Frank-Jan

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Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90*?
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2023, 12:20 PM »
Check out this thread:
link

You need to adjust the rear bevel stop first.

Offline waho6o9

  • Posts: 1703
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Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90*?
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2023, 01:25 PM »
Maybe put your Festool saw on the Festool rail that you're using and then use the magnetic protractor. 

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5873
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90*?
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2023, 01:30 PM »
Oh...do you mean the bevel angle of a work piece?  Tuff to do.


The results of your quick test are interesting. To get the angle of the sloped part of the combination head you could just tape the device in place. Not enough engagement in the photo.

To test the angle of your cut you’d just have to hold the device in place, and make a mental note of the readout. Then (without moving the stock) put the device on top of the work, square to the joint. The difference, one readout subtracted from the other, will be the angle of the cut.

Offline darita

  • Posts: 393
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90*?
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2023, 05:20 PM »
Check out this thread:
link

You need to adjust the rear bevel stop first.

Thank you Frank.  I think that was just what I was looking for.  I'll give that a try.

Offline TomK_2

  • Posts: 101
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90*?
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2023, 07:34 PM »
Check out this thread:
link

You need to adjust the rear bevel stop first.

Thank you Frank.  I think that was just what I was looking for.  I'll give that a try.


Yes this is what you need to do. The saw cannot be calibrated using that grub screw. On the opposite side there is a slot that barely allows the saw to go between 45 and 90. The pin with the green handle rides in this slot. You can make an adjustment for the pin but the further toward 90 the further away from 45. The tricky thing is you can't ignore the side with the grub screw when calibrating as the saw will flex if the grub screw isn't supporting it. Both sides need to be adjusted together and then you must check 45 to see if you are making too much of a compromise to get a perfect 90. Also, I would not rely on a digital inclinometer but instead use a machinist square like has been said above. Even a small twist of the linclinometer will throw off your reading and that is assuming your unit is accurate to the tolerance you are trying to achieve.

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 2348
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90*?
« Reply #27 on: Yesterday at 08:47 AM »
Even a small twist of the inclinometer will throw off your reading and that is assuming your unit is accurate to the tolerance you are trying to achieve.

This is 100% true. I don't even know how many times I have seen videos of guys just sticking their magnetic gauge onto an already tilted blade to check the angle.
This does not give you an accurate reading. I aways start with the blade at a true/known 90 degree to the table point. Stick the magnet to the side of the blade, zero it while everything is touching,(bottom and side/throat plate and blade) then tilt to the desired angle without ever touching the tilt box again.
You also want to do this while the crank/screw is pushing the mechanism, to keep the slack out of the reading. If you go past your angle, back up and come up to it again, so the angle doesn't change from the natural droop that would be allowed by the slack.
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Offline darita

  • Posts: 393
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90*?
« Reply #28 on: Yesterday at 09:30 AM »
All points taken.  I made a cut and checked it with a square and found it was indeed not square.  I was able to make the adjustment to square.  Now, which black knob do I tighten first...the front one or the back one?  I seem to recall there's a sequence to follow.

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 2348
Re: How Do I Get My Blade To 90*?
« Reply #29 on: Yesterday at 10:12 AM »
I generally do them both at once. Turn the saw sideways to you, sitting flat on it's base, tighten them both at the same time. It really shouldn't move, fowling your adjustment, either way though, assuming that it is "resting" on the stops.
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