Author Topic: Guide rail advice  (Read 3644 times)

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Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3481
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Guide rail advice
« Reply #30 on: June 05, 2021, 12:36 PM »
I forgot to mention than when I use the Betterley connector. I check the alignment with a Woodpecker framing square. I've never seen a misalignment, But I always check.
Birdhunter

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Offline bobtskutter

  • Posts: 7
Re: Guide rail advice
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2021, 03:18 PM »
Hello,
This is my first post to FOG.
I notice the original post mentioned a TS75.
I've recently bought a TS75 with the 1400mm guide rail and also a 3000mm rail.  The 1400mm rail with the TS75 can only just cut across an 8x4 sheet (which are actually 2440x1220mm here in the UK).  Using the 1400mm rail and TS75 to cross cut an 8x4 sheet is difficult because the saw is larger than the TS55 and has a slightly different mounting mechanism on the rail, it can be done but you do have to put the rail in the right place
I would recommend a rail longer than 1400mm if you wanted to cut across 8x4 sheets with a TS75 and not have to worry too much about where you put the rail.
Regards
Bob

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 496
Re: Guide rail advice
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2021, 07:02 PM »

...
I got the 1400 with the TS55 and added a 1080 fairly quickly. Using these together, I routed a groove in my cutting station ...
Did you have/use the Makita connectors at the time?
If not, the most likely reason is your connectors were not tight-enough. The problem with the Festool connectors is not only they dent the rails, but since they dent the rails, one cannot tighten them as much as is needed for truly secure joining.

The Makita-style design does not have this problem. It can be tightened as much as the screw - or the hex head in the screw to be precise - will handle. Which gives like 10x stronger connection than the Festool-style connectors can ever support.

Using those, I find the the lateral "bending" of the rail being a way bigger issue when going beyond 7' or so. And that is independent of the connected/not-connected context. To solve that, I have found that on long cuts, it is critical to "support" the rail laterally by taking advantage of the rail's anti-slip pads. This is done by pressing the rail against the material as much as possible either by hand or by the tool so it is not allowed to bend from lateral forces.

With a router that may not be possible though.

No I didn't, all I had were the Festool ones. At that time, I wasn't aware that there was a difference in how they worked.
CSX
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OF1010
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
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Offline OzarkNerd

  • Posts: 30
Re: Guide rail advice
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2021, 09:52 AM »
Hello,
This is my first post to FOG.
I notice the original post mentioned a TS75.
I've recently bought a TS75 with the 1400mm guide rail and also a 3000mm rail.  The 1400mm rail with the TS75 can only just cut across an 8x4 sheet (which are actually 2440x1220mm here in the UK).  Using the 1400mm rail and TS75 to cross cut an 8x4 sheet is difficult because the saw is larger than the TS55 and has a slightly different mounting mechanism on the rail, it can be done but you do have to put the rail in the right place
I would recommend a rail longer than 1400mm if you wanted to cut across 8x4 sheets with a TS75 and not have to worry too much about where you put the rail.
Regards
Bob

Thanks Bob, that's good input!

Offline OzarkNerd

  • Posts: 30
Re: Guide rail advice
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2021, 02:53 PM »
I have been unable to find a spec for how much more rail the TS75 "eats up" versus the TS55... the Festool guide rails all mention being able to make a cut 6" less than the rail length, but they don't specify which saw this is using.  That would seem to imply that it is the same for the 55 and 75. But several posts over the years as well as Bob's comment above seem to indicate you have less room on the rail with the 75.  Anybody know the difference?

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 496
Re: Guide rail advice
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2021, 04:59 PM »
Since I have both, I can get an actual measurement for this, but there is some variable here.
The minimum will change based on the depth of the cut. What you really need is to have enough of the saw's baseplate on the rail to have the rear contact point adjuster engaged and the blade far enough behind the material the you are cutting to not make contact until you push forward. You never want to contact the material, from the edge, until you are at against the depth stop (plunged as far as needed)
The saw will climb down (quite quickly)
So there will be a little bit of difference if you were cutting at full capacity (depth) than there would if you were only cutting through something much thinner.

This is not to say that you can't make a plunge cut out in the middle of the sheet, you clearly can, but you do not want to do that from en edge.
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75

Offline OzarkNerd

  • Posts: 30
Re: Guide rail advice
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2021, 06:37 PM »
Since I have both, I can get an actual measurement for this, but there is some variable here.
The minimum will change based on the depth of the cut. What you really need is to have enough of the saw's baseplate on the rail to have the rear contact point adjuster engaged and the blade far enough behind the material the you are cutting to not make contact until you push forward. You never want to contact the material, from the edge, until you are at against the depth stop (plunged as far as needed)
The saw will climb down (quite quickly)
So there will be a little bit of difference if you were cutting at full capacity (depth) than there would if you were only cutting through something much thinner.

This is not to say that you can't make a plunge cut out in the middle of the sheet, you clearly can, but you do not want to do that from en edge.

That's good info, hadn't thought about it that way.  So obviously the TS75 has more max depth than the TS55, but if the depth is the same (let's say a tad over 3/4" for typical sheet goods) does the 75 still need more rail?  I'm guessing so, but just wondering what those numbers would be in that fairly "apples to apples" case.  Most of the time I imagine myself really maxing out the rail's length is when dealing with sheet goods so my depth will be on the shallow end in those cases.

Offline mino

  • Posts: 491
Re: Guide rail advice
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2021, 07:10 PM »
I would not over-complicate. The difference is not that big.

1400 rail is a too short in either case and 1700+ rail is good enough in both cases.

Simple rule is, subtract about 400 mm from rail and that is how much you can *comfortably* cut. 300-350 mm for the "start" to place the saw and 50-100 mm for overhang.
Subtract about 250 mm, and that is how much you can cut without a plunge cut but with some careful rail and saw positioning.

The difference between TS 55 and TS75 is that you can "barely" do a cross cut without a plunge with TS55 and 1400 rail. But it is still not comfortable, for that you need 1600+ . And at that point also TS75 will be fine.
The Machine does not have a brain. Use Yours!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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Offline bobtskutter

  • Posts: 7
Re: Guide rail advice
« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2021, 12:24 PM »
I've just taken some pictures of my TS75.
The base plate is 380mm long.
I've set my saw up with a plunge depth of 27mm, that gives 4mm of tooth below the board.
For an 18mm thick sheet of OSB and the saw being at the left hand end of the rail, you need 210mm from the left hand end to cut through the board.
For an 18mm thick sheet of OSB and the saw being at the right hand end of the rail, you need 170mm from the right hand end to cut through the board.
That gives 1400 - 210 - 170 = 1020mm of cutting width.
If you make the cut deeper, and the saw closer to the guide connectors can you can make longer cuts.

Offline OzarkNerd

  • Posts: 30
Re: Guide rail advice
« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2021, 04:51 PM »
Thanks Bob, really appreciate you taking the time to do the measurements and post the info!!

Offline mino

  • Posts: 491
Re: Guide rail advice
« Reply #40 on: June 09, 2021, 08:39 PM »
...
That gives 1400 - 210 - 170 = 1020mm of cutting width.
...
Your measurement is too conservative here but it is a good start for "comfortable work".

The saw slides on the cams, not on the metal groove, so you actually do not need the full base to be on the rail, just the cams must be on the rail. This allows to subtract about 50 mm on either end.

So the 1000-ish mm cut capacity is correct for "comfortable" cut without too much fiddling. But the true "max accurate cut" capacity is somewhere around 1150 mm for the TS75 on a 1400 rail.

Either case, it is too little for a full cross-cut but not by as much as would be indicated.


I have a marked lines on all my tracks where my track should meet the material and where the end of the saw should go for max cut capacity. I use these lines to place the rail, connect the GRS and where place the saw bedfore starting it. All without having to fiddle where I am.

For a TS 55 saw I have the "material start" line 300 mm from the rail start and I always place the rail so it is just whole on the rail. For a TS 75 I would use same approach but with a mark about 350 mm from rail start.

I also have a mark at the rail end, about 100 mm from the end to indicate where the rail is *supposed* to overhang the material. Ideally.

Works really well, sparing me the need to think/check where I place the rail or the saw.
The Machine does not have a brain. Use Yours!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
AGC 18@AGC 125 flange, BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55
Protool: AGP 125, VCP 260
Narex: EDH 82, EFH 36@LR32, EVP 13 H-2CA, S 57 A
My Precious: 376, 376, 376 holy, 632, 1016 holy, 1400 holy, 2400, GECKO, GRS 16 PE, GRS 16 PE

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 496
Re: Guide rail advice
« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2021, 05:48 PM »
I totally forgot yesterday, but I did get it together today.
 From the back of the base plate to the point where the blade meets the base plate in the front.
Setting the saw for a 6mm depth of cut:
TS 55 - 8 1/4" or 210mm
TS 75 - 10 1/8" or 257mm

Setting the saw to full depth:
TS 55 - 9 5/8 or 244mm
TS 75 - 12 3/4 or 324mm

All measurements are of course approximate, no need to be crazy about it.
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75