Author Topic: FS-WA Angle Stop & Guide Extension Combo - Impromptu Parallel Guide?  (Read 1582 times)

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Offline TinyShop

  • Posts: 574
@ThunderBeest @Eggy Toast @grim_lokason @FestitaMakool @mino 

For folks who own the FS-WA (577040), did any of you also purchase the "Guide Extension" a.k.a. FS-WA-VL (577041)?

Anyone unfamiliar with it can watch Frank rather embarrassingly demo it here:



Anyways, the Angle Stop paired with a single Guide Extension, at a package cost of between US$195 and US$250 (depending on which side of the pond you reside), would appear to offer some repeatability in not only cutting material to length (as shown rather awkwardly in the above video) but also processing sheet goods (in lieu of a set of parallel guides) as demonstrated a couple of years ago by fellow FOG'er @tjbnwi using TSO kit:



Now, the graduations on the stock guide extension are limited in length to 45" (1160mm) - the graduations don't extend all the way to the end owing to the design of the flip stop (which uses up a lot of real estate aft of it) - so that's a limitation.



And another limitation is that there's no allowance for producing rips narrower than about 17" (430mm).



However, these limitations aside, it looks like this combo could be put to use in a pinch as an impromptu single arm parallel guide. I wonder if Festool realizes the potential here and if a Version 2.0 might be in development that expands on the idea? Good opportunity to redesign the Festool parallel guides which are starting to look a little prehistoric in the face of all the competing versions now in the marketplace.

Finally, for anyone contemplating adding a second length of extrusion: at first it occurred to me that one could potentially expand the capacity by adding a second length of guide extension. But then I realized this won't work given how the flip stop relies on one of the two t-tracks on the underside of the extrusion, the same t-tracks that the connectors use. Bummer that. If the flip stop instead relied on a t-track located on the top face of the extrusion then this idea would have legs.

Nonetheless, I figured I'd share this potential use for anyone who hadn't yet thought of it.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2022, 12:04 AM by TinyShop »
ETS 150/5 EQ (DE) [po], TS 75 EQ (DE) [po], OF 1400 EQ-F (DE) [n], CXS (DE) [n], CMS-GE [DE] [po], CMS TS 75 (DE) [n], LA-CS 50/CMS (DE) [po], VB-CMS (DE) [n], MFT/3 (CZ) [n], DF 700 EQ w/Seneca Small Mortise Kit (DE) [po], FEIN Multimaster 350 QSL (DE) [n], Bosch 1274DVS w/dust collection, sanding frame,  stand & fence (CH) [n], BOSCH 1590EVS w/dust collection (CH) [n], CS Unitec CS 1445 HEPA extractor <re-branded Starmix ISP 1435 H> (DE) [n], CT SYS (DE) [po], Milwaukee 0302-20 (US) [n], Two (2) Porter Cable 862 (TW) [n], Porter Cable 447 (US) [n], Zyliss Vise (CH) [nos], Hitachi C 8FB (JP) [h], Walko 4 MKII (NL) [nos], Festool MFS 400 w/add-on 700 profiles & router slide (DE) [n], Festool RAS 115 (DE) [n]

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Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 1220
Re: FS-WA Angle Stop & Guide Extension Combo - Parallel Guide?
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2022, 12:04 AM »
Anyways, the Angle Stop paired with a single Guide Extension, at a package cost of between US$195 and US$250 (depending on which side of the pond you reside),

On this side of the pond, you have to start by finding a European dealer that will ship to the United States; the FS-WA in still NAINA.  We still only have the FS-KS available here.

Offline TinyShop

  • Posts: 574
Re: FS-WA Angle Stop & Guide Extension Combo - Parallel Guide?
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2022, 12:07 AM »
Anyways, the Angle Stop paired with a single Guide Extension, at a package cost of between US$195 and US$250 (depending on which side of the pond you reside),

On this side of the pond, you have to start by finding a European dealer that will ship to the United States; the FS-WA in still NAINA.  We still only have the FS-KS available here.

Where's there a will there's a way. This is actually easier than many may think. Happy to point folks in the right direction. PM or email me....
ETS 150/5 EQ (DE) [po], TS 75 EQ (DE) [po], OF 1400 EQ-F (DE) [n], CXS (DE) [n], CMS-GE [DE] [po], CMS TS 75 (DE) [n], LA-CS 50/CMS (DE) [po], VB-CMS (DE) [n], MFT/3 (CZ) [n], DF 700 EQ w/Seneca Small Mortise Kit (DE) [po], FEIN Multimaster 350 QSL (DE) [n], Bosch 1274DVS w/dust collection, sanding frame,  stand & fence (CH) [n], BOSCH 1590EVS w/dust collection (CH) [n], CS Unitec CS 1445 HEPA extractor <re-branded Starmix ISP 1435 H> (DE) [n], CT SYS (DE) [po], Milwaukee 0302-20 (US) [n], Two (2) Porter Cable 862 (TW) [n], Porter Cable 447 (US) [n], Zyliss Vise (CH) [nos], Hitachi C 8FB (JP) [h], Walko 4 MKII (NL) [nos], Festool MFS 400 w/add-on 700 profiles & router slide (DE) [n], Festool RAS 115 (DE) [n]

[po] pre-owned   [n] new   [nos] new old stock   [h] heirloom   (XX) country of origin

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6506
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: FS-WA Angle Stop & Guide Extension Combo - Impromptu Parallel Guide?
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2022, 12:57 AM »
We’re still using the TSO system to process all our sheet goods. Couldn’t do what we do efficiently without TSO.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CVv84KOAkSW/


Tom

Offline ThunderBeest

  • Posts: 6
Re: FS-WA Angle Stop & Guide Extension Combo - Impromptu Parallel Guide?
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2022, 03:05 AM »
Did not buy the extension kit. It was costly enough as is :)

Offline mino

  • Posts: 580
Re: FS-WA Angle Stop & Guide Extension Combo - Impromptu Parallel Guide?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2022, 11:06 AM »
@TinyShop thanks for the ping!

Just realized that the extension is just €40 over here which is a bargain* compared to the various PG sets.

Where I can see this useful is for MFT-style mounting where the extension can act as a one-side fence. It should be better in this role than the TSO PG side as it is much stronger.

Overall, before testing, I know I will like it. But IMO it is not a real alternative to PGs. It is too heavy for that use. But for one-sided stop or for MFT cutting station fence ... that is another matter. The added bulk should actually help there. Challenge accepted!


*Never thought I would use Festool and bargain in one sentence. Eh.
When The Machine has no brains, use Yours!
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AGC 18, BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55, WTS 150/7
Protool: AGP 125, VCP 260
Narex: EDH 82, EFH 36, EVP 13H-2CA, S 57 A
My Precious: 2x 376, 376 holy, 632, 1016 holy, 1400 holy, 2400, FS-WA, 2x GRS 16 PE, GECKO-DOSH

Offline TinyShop

  • Posts: 574
Re: FS-WA Angle Stop & Guide Extension Combo - Impromptu Parallel Guide?
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2022, 11:32 AM »
@mino - I look forward to your evaluation! :)
ETS 150/5 EQ (DE) [po], TS 75 EQ (DE) [po], OF 1400 EQ-F (DE) [n], CXS (DE) [n], CMS-GE [DE] [po], CMS TS 75 (DE) [n], LA-CS 50/CMS (DE) [po], VB-CMS (DE) [n], MFT/3 (CZ) [n], DF 700 EQ w/Seneca Small Mortise Kit (DE) [po], FEIN Multimaster 350 QSL (DE) [n], Bosch 1274DVS w/dust collection, sanding frame,  stand & fence (CH) [n], BOSCH 1590EVS w/dust collection (CH) [n], CS Unitec CS 1445 HEPA extractor <re-branded Starmix ISP 1435 H> (DE) [n], CT SYS (DE) [po], Milwaukee 0302-20 (US) [n], Two (2) Porter Cable 862 (TW) [n], Porter Cable 447 (US) [n], Zyliss Vise (CH) [nos], Hitachi C 8FB (JP) [h], Walko 4 MKII (NL) [nos], Festool MFS 400 w/add-on 700 profiles & router slide (DE) [n], Festool RAS 115 (DE) [n]

[po] pre-owned   [n] new   [nos] new old stock   [h] heirloom   (XX) country of origin

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 1119
Re: FS-WA Angle Stop & Guide Extension Combo - Impromptu Parallel Guide?
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2022, 06:39 PM »
@TinyShop - Thanks for the heads up!

Yes.. I bought the lot.. that would be; added the extension to the kit. As mentioned it has a reasonably price, and I figured exactly the same as you. It could serve as an quick and easy PG replacement when cutting the not so extremely critical cuts. I don’t think it’ll replace parallel guides. But when squaring up the protractor or setting an angle for angled cuts it’s very valuable.
Sort of like the FSK rails, but now you’re only limited by the length of rail you have, and TS saws and HK saws can be used.

I did a lot of panel cutting lately, this was with the FSK 670 rail, and I loved the ease and repeatability when I found the ideal angle and set it on the FSK stop. It made the job go so much faster and with ease. One measurement; and cut. Same can be done here, only now one can have a set length (with limits) or slightly varying lengths with quick adjustments.
Sometimes it replaces the mitre saw, sometimes it does what the mitre saw cannot do.

Say you need a slope/scribing cabinets or similar, once set you have repeatability in a pinch. Referencing from an edge. This would equal multi measuring and marking most of the time without this set.

The extension is beefy and heavy. Not tested; but I imagine you can flip it upside down and utilise the t-track from above instead, maybe tack a self adhesive ruler/tape on this side? (I can test this). It shares the same track as the ones on the rails. So it can have multiple uses: Extension for a track to an edge for clamping where the rail isn’t long enough and you don’t need to cut the whole width of a panel. A very hefty ruler (Needs an additional tape for this) with a ruler stop? A straight edge…
A clamped down parallel guide for cutting without rail (It’s 800mm long). Straight aid for glueing?
There must be more..  [big grin] Still, now already enough excuses to get one? [cool]
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 1119
Re: FS-WA Angle Stop & Guide Extension Combo - Impromptu Parallel Guide?
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2022, 07:00 PM »
Finally, for anyone contemplating adding a second length of extrusion: at first it occurred to me that one could potentially expand the capacity by adding a second length of guide extension. But then I realized this won't work given how the flip stop relies on one of the two t-tracks on the underside of the extrusion, the same t-tracks that the connectors use. Bummer that. If the flip stop instead relied on a t-track located on the top face of the extrusion then this idea would have legs.

Exactly, my first thoughts too. Then again, the extension would have to be used upside down, and a bridge would have to be fabricated to connect it to the rail. Maybe TSO can make some add on’s?  [smile] It may cannibalise their PG’s, but mostly it would be even more pin point accuracy setting up any angle that are not 90°.
It would be to heavy and tedious to compete with PG’s that way.
So, expanding capabilities is the most likely outcome of some aftermarket add-on’s
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline TinyShop

  • Posts: 574
Re: FS-WA Angle Stop & Guide Extension Combo - Impromptu Parallel Guide?
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2022, 03:08 PM »
@FestitaMakool - thanks so much for providing your insights! I, for one, look forward to your forthcoming testing. :)
ETS 150/5 EQ (DE) [po], TS 75 EQ (DE) [po], OF 1400 EQ-F (DE) [n], CXS (DE) [n], CMS-GE [DE] [po], CMS TS 75 (DE) [n], LA-CS 50/CMS (DE) [po], VB-CMS (DE) [n], MFT/3 (CZ) [n], DF 700 EQ w/Seneca Small Mortise Kit (DE) [po], FEIN Multimaster 350 QSL (DE) [n], Bosch 1274DVS w/dust collection, sanding frame,  stand & fence (CH) [n], BOSCH 1590EVS w/dust collection (CH) [n], CS Unitec CS 1445 HEPA extractor <re-branded Starmix ISP 1435 H> (DE) [n], CT SYS (DE) [po], Milwaukee 0302-20 (US) [n], Two (2) Porter Cable 862 (TW) [n], Porter Cable 447 (US) [n], Zyliss Vise (CH) [nos], Hitachi C 8FB (JP) [h], Walko 4 MKII (NL) [nos], Festool MFS 400 w/add-on 700 profiles & router slide (DE) [n], Festool RAS 115 (DE) [n]

[po] pre-owned   [n] new   [nos] new old stock   [h] heirloom   (XX) country of origin

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 1119
Re: FS-WA Angle Stop & Guide Extension Combo - Impromptu Parallel Guide?
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2022, 06:48 PM »
Well, there’s not really much exciting one can do.

I’ll add a few photos, as seen, the extension is made from the exact same profile as the bottom of the FS-WA. It CAN be attached upside down, a slight shift in height (1/2 a mm or less) is the only drawback.

It’s easier to use an existing parallel guide to attach to the rail. A long support arm connecting to the rearmost part of the extension and to the rails upper t-track for added accuracy and support might be good. As Shinwa’s freehand cutting squares, here’s two, but there are several:






“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 1119
Re: FS-WA Angle Stop & Guide Extension Combo - Impromptu Parallel Guide?
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2022, 07:07 PM »
Some images:

Notice some shifting in alignment where the parts meet


The parts that make up the stop


With a stop from Kapex wings (needs a bigger nut and a shorter screw)


Offset, top pointer to bottom (in the area of 37mm)


You really need a square that can reach these contact points marked in blue. This square was the only that I could fit [huh]




Both parts seen from below

“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline TinyShop

  • Posts: 574
Re: FS-WA Angle Stop & Guide Extension Combo - Impromptu Parallel Guide?
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2022, 09:46 PM »
@FestitaMakool - very interesting. So, from your comments it would appear that this tool doesn't offer high levels of precision and is more intended for certain limited site tasks. Thus I'm struggling to see its usefulness in  light of other more versatile solutions. Maybe others will chime in to offer their real world experiences using both tools.
ETS 150/5 EQ (DE) [po], TS 75 EQ (DE) [po], OF 1400 EQ-F (DE) [n], CXS (DE) [n], CMS-GE [DE] [po], CMS TS 75 (DE) [n], LA-CS 50/CMS (DE) [po], VB-CMS (DE) [n], MFT/3 (CZ) [n], DF 700 EQ w/Seneca Small Mortise Kit (DE) [po], FEIN Multimaster 350 QSL (DE) [n], Bosch 1274DVS w/dust collection, sanding frame,  stand & fence (CH) [n], BOSCH 1590EVS w/dust collection (CH) [n], CS Unitec CS 1445 HEPA extractor <re-branded Starmix ISP 1435 H> (DE) [n], CT SYS (DE) [po], Milwaukee 0302-20 (US) [n], Two (2) Porter Cable 862 (TW) [n], Porter Cable 447 (US) [n], Zyliss Vise (CH) [nos], Hitachi C 8FB (JP) [h], Walko 4 MKII (NL) [nos], Festool MFS 400 w/add-on 700 profiles & router slide (DE) [n], Festool RAS 115 (DE) [n]

[po] pre-owned   [n] new   [nos] new old stock   [h] heirloom   (XX) country of origin

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 1119
Re: FS-WA Angle Stop & Guide Extension Combo - Impromptu Parallel Guide?
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2022, 12:16 PM »
Well, no. But it is a great alternative to a fixed 90°

I see it as an alternative or alongside FSK rails with the HK saws wich I much enjoy.
The fact that not every work situation can be executed with only 90° and/or parallel cuts
makes this for all those other occasions. Repeatability at the angle demanded, and with a plunge saw. Or a HK for that matter. It’ll do 90° when squared, but it’s alongside and an addition to the squares and parallel guides for the rails.

To say, there’s not a particularly good reason for me to fit a zero clearance insert for my mitre saw at this point. It would have been chewed up quite quickly..
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline mino

  • Posts: 580
Re: FS-WA Angle Stop & Guide Extension Combo - Impromptu Parallel Guide?
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2022, 05:32 PM »
..snip..
For a pro or a fan, yeah, a good complement.

But the real value is IMO for a hobby user.

The FS-WA is the ideal component of a minimal tool chest for a hobby user. I.e. someone who will have the TS, an FS/2 and the set with the FS-WA which includes the self-aligning connectors and one will be good to go for *any* task. Just add $20 engineer's square for calibrating and there you go!
When The Machine has no brains, use Yours!
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
AGC 18, BHC 18, C 12, CTM 36, DRC 18/4, PSC 420, RS 200, TSC 55, WTS 150/7
Protool: AGP 125, VCP 260
Narex: EDH 82, EFH 36, EVP 13H-2CA, S 57 A
My Precious: 2x 376, 376 holy, 632, 1016 holy, 1400 holy, 2400, FS-WA, 2x GRS 16 PE, GECKO-DOSH

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 1119
Re: FS-WA Angle Stop & Guide Extension Combo - Impromptu Parallel Guide?
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2022, 07:15 PM »
..snip..
For a pro or a fan, yeah, a good complement.

But the real value is IMO for a hobby user.

The FS-WA is the ideal component of a minimal tool chest for a hobby user. I.e. someone who will have the TS, an FS/2 and the set with the FS-WA which includes the self-aligning connectors and one will be good to go for *any* task. Just add $20 engineer's square for calibrating and there you go!

That’s exactly why I bought it Mino. As an advanced hobby user, mostly doing carpentry and finishing work. I look into what helps me, preferably a lot more than just one thing. The things that for me makes my “production” a lot easier are probably worth it. You could get just the FS-WA, it’s very reasonable as a stand alone angle adaptor. To me, I wanted and needed the Systainer, the screw clamps, the hose and cord guide, the rail stop and the rail connectors - the lot.

I’ve had great use for it already, today a setup dadoing with the OF 1010 window finish trim, on a MFT that’s absolutely not flat, using Festool’s original rail brackets, protractor and fence. Adding to this two rail stops (had one from before..) the dados are coming out square and nice, even when pushing the router slight uphill haha [big grin]. One window takes time and effort, nothing is by todays standards or square.. cutting down speciality casings tongue to match 70-80 year old grooves. That’s the name of the game.
Truth be told, I’m really enjoying the flexibility one some of my Festool’s all round use, in particular the CS 50

Most useful and maybe cheapest tool that saves the day, it’s often my everyday hero:
A Stanley carpenters plane, that can shift the blade out to the very edge, and even plane with a second knife on the nose, to reach right into the corners:

“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”