Author Topic: First Router 1400 or 2200?  (Read 3183 times)

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Offline schneems

  • Posts: 41
First Router 1400 or 2200?
« on: February 04, 2020, 12:16 PM »
I'm potentially interested in getting my first router. I've got a small garage shop. Hand tools with a track saw (with mft/3 table), no table saw. I've also got a 14" bandsaw and drill press. I'm thinking that a router would be an extremely useful addition to the shop and not take up a ton of space. I was wondering what all of your thoughts are between the 1400 and the 2200?

I like the smaller size of the 1400, but if I'll eventually grow out of it and **need** the 2200 then I don't want to drop $600 just to turn around and drop another $900 on another tool that also takes up space. So I guess I'm interested in how you all view these two tools? Is the 2200 a super-set of the 1400 and it can do everything plus more? Or is it more of an unwieldy beast that excels at heavy-duty tasks but not at lighter duty setups? If you've got both, do you find one sits on the shelf and collects dust?

FWIW my track-saw is the TS75 and while sometimes I've wished it was a little lighter, I've also used the max depth cut on it and been grateful that it was there (since I have no table-saw).

What thought process would you all use in trying to determine which router to buy?

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Online 4FunFinders

  • Posts: 3
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2020, 12:46 PM »
Personal experience, so opinions will certainly vary.  No way did I want to man handle the 2200 on a regular basis.  1400 for most jobs was enough for me.  Priced out a Milwaukee 3 1/2 HP, Router Lift and decent table.  Vary comparable to the 2200 by itself.  Dust collection based on the table and not the router itself made the decision for me.  In the end.. big routers are best served in a table unless there is a need to be mobile.  Just my 2 cents.

Offline nvalinski

  • Posts: 105
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2020, 12:52 PM »
Depends what you are looking to do with it, but I agree with 4FunFinders that I've never really come across a scenario where I feel like I need to be running a 3 hp router handheld. If you are working on joinery for large timbers, flattening a slab, a lot of trenching work, or other operations, then it might be a good choice. But if you are doing some typical edging details, trenching, and template work, a 1400 is fine.

I'd also still consider the 1010 as well. That little guy is my most used router outside of a table. I'll use it for putting 1/4 grooves on table legs for panels, edging details, and light template work. Still glad I have a 1400 and a Porter Cable 690 router for my medium duty items, but I can't recommend the 1010 enough (just wish it had a sane dust port, a ratcheting bit holder, and quick release bases like the 1400).

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 650
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2020, 01:14 PM »
I think you'll find a router in a table is far more useful than a router by itself. I was in a garage and started with a Dewalt 618 and didn't have enough justification at the time to keep it (and the giant case it comes in) so I sold it. I needed to do some roundovers and went and got a Dewalt dwp611 and really enjoyed it for what I used it for. It's a super nice and comfortable router. Once I got into Festool I went and got a 1400 after my TS55 and CT26. I found that once I was hooked on not having dust spewed everywhere I wasn't using my Dewalt anymore so I sold it to a friend. I regret doing that sometimes as it was such a nice little router and may pick up a cordless version sometime as I think they've started adding decent dust collection to most of the newer offerings. I know Ridgid came out with a cordless router with a nice dust collection accessory.

Now onto the 2200 vs 1400. The 2200 really isn't that unwieldy if it's used with accessories like the edge guides or mounted on a guide rail. The dust collection is better on the 2200 than any other router out there. But to get all the nice handheld accessories is another $400 for the systainer kit. The 1010 is probably the answer to your needs for the foreseeable future. Just try to find 8mm shank bits even if you have to order them online. That way if you ever get a bigger Festool router you can use the same router bits on either one.

If your needs ever shift to needing precise template work with guide bushings from what I've read the Festool offerings can be lacking.

TLDR: Go buy a Dewalt dwp611 and the dust shroud for it for now. It's a cheap investment and will let you get started routing and figuring out what your needs are before you go spending the big $$$.
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Offline JeffSD

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Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2020, 01:26 PM »
I had a similar question recently when I was looking for a new router and table for my small garage shop.

I went with the OF 1400. Powerful, reasonably-sized and it's "approved" for use in the CMS-VL table that I have attached to my MFT/3. Dust collection in that combination is amazingly good.

I understand that a number of guys use the OF 2200 in the CMS tables without any issues, but I'm a bit of a scaredy-cat when it comes to the possibility of voiding the Festool warranty.  [big grin] 

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3902
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2020, 01:26 PM »
I will cosign all that has been said about looking into a router table and then combining it with a more dynamic handheld option like the 1010, as well as factoring into cost estimates the various accessories of the 2200.  Keep in mind that you can get a really nice router table setup plus a Triton that has above the table adjustment (meaning no need for an expensive router lift) and still come in under the price of the 2200.

The 1400 was my first Festool router, but once I got the 2200 and 1010 it is now my least used option, reserved for when I need to run 1/2" bits or make deep cuts on a surface that is too narrow for the 2200.  I love the 2200 -- best dust collection I've ever seen on a router, and despite its large size, it is actually quite nimble to handle.  And the precision depth adjustments that allows you to hit the exact desired depth with minimal fuss.  I find the extra power comes in handy mostly when running deep cuts, which require fewer passes on the 2200 than with the 1400.  I've never really done a head to head between the two with large diameter bits, since I would normally run these on the router table.

Keep in mind too that the only router in the Festool line with failsafe centering of template guide bushings is the 1010 (once you add the Leigh template adapter), so if you plan to do a lot of that type of work you should factor that in.
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Offline Dove_Tail

  • Posts: 23
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2020, 01:58 PM »
schneems - All great advise above.

I have routers ranging from 3/4 HP to 3-1/4 HP.

While there are applications for using a 3-1/4 HP router hand held, it's not common.  The OF 2200 is a beast to use handheld.  Generally we use 3-1/4 HP routers in a router table.  With a good router table and lift, that size router just needs to be a good motor.  Traditionally, everyone used to buy the Porter Cable 7518 for this application.  Lately, I see a lot of guys buy the Milwaukee motor.  Although I don't own the 2200, I wouldn't invest in that router for a table mount.  (2200 owners - Love to hear how you use yours)

I own the 1400 and use it extensively with the holey rail for 32 mm line boring, dadoes, etc.  I would love to add a 1010 - I think it could be a more go-to router.  The 1400 is still fairly bulky.  I bought mine because it has a 1/2" collet and the 1010 doesn't.

Based on my experience and your intended purpose, I recommend you start with the OF 1010.  You'll save $130 and have a VERY capable router.  Don't worry, you'll add more routers later  [big grin].  Keep in mind that the 1010 will accommodate 8 mm and 1/4" shank bits only.  If you think you will need to run 1/2" shank bits, then you need the OF 1400.

Cheers,
Mark

Offline rmhinden

  • Posts: 244
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2020, 02:09 PM »
I have the OF 1010 with a set of 8mm bits I acquired in different places.   I also have a router table, w/ lift, and the Porter Cable 7518, I use that with 1/2" bits.

I use the router table where it make sense and the 1010 for things that don't on a router table.  This include template routing, LR32, edge routing, circle cutting, and a Leigh dovetail jig.   I haven't had any issues with the 1010 not being powerful enough.   The dust collection on the 1010 works well.

This combination works well for me.   

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 237
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2020, 02:16 PM »
Definitely NOT the 2200 for a first router !

First off, you never really grow out of a small router.  It many not be up to the task you have at hand after you progress, but it will still do the job it was designed for.  If you eventually need a 3hp handheld, then the 2200 is probably the best out there.  Few people need this capability.  For table mounting, other makes offer better value.

For a first router, I'd also suggest the 1010;  or even another make.  The 1010 will cover a lot of bases and is easier to handle and learn on.  It's also better for the the LR32 system if you ever want to do 32mm system holes.

Another thing you should come to grips with early on is that one can never have too many routers.  If you end up using one , you'll inevitably get another and another usually.  So, don't approach this as "I'll spend a bit more now and get one that will do everything"   I doubt that has worked for anyone when it comes to routers.  I'll bet no one commenting here has only one.

For a first router , you may also want to consider a palm router.  Many like the dewalt 611 with the fixed and plunge bases.  That with a 2hp+ midsize router like the 1400 when your work needs it might be an even better combination.   
« Last Edit: February 04, 2020, 02:19 PM by xedos »

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4548
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2020, 02:30 PM »
Echoing many, get the 1100 first.

1/4” shank bits are fine for most work.
When you need stouter bits find 8mm shank bits.

Then, if you find you need more power jump up to the 2000 and 1/2” shanks.

At some point you’ll probably want a router table. Get a variable speed non-plunging 1/2” router for that.

Online 4FunFinders

  • Posts: 3
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2020, 03:37 PM »
Another thing you should come to grips with early on is that one can never have too many routers.  If you end up using one , you'll inevitably get another and another usually.  So, don't approach this as "I'll spend a bit more now and get one that will do everything"   I doubt that has worked for anyone when it comes to routers.  I'll bet no one commenting here has only one.

Truer words have not been spoken.   [big grin] [big grin] 

[As a side note... I own 6 (only 1 Festool) and I'm just a homeowner who likes to make things for the house LOL]

Offline schneems

  • Posts: 41
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2020, 03:40 PM »
1010 is an interesting option. How is the dust collection on it versus the 1400? My garage is a multi-purpose space and I try to be as dust conscious as possible.

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3902
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2020, 03:48 PM »
Dust collection on both is excellent, and I don't think you're losing anything in that area by going with the 1010 rather than the 1400.

In case you don't alraady know about it, a fantastic accessory that goes with both the 1010 and 1400, though is ideally suited to the former because of its smaller size, is the edging plate, which turns it into a horizontal router.



Just be aware that to make the plate functional you also need the angle arm, and for DC purposes, the chip guard.

1010 is an interesting option. How is the dust collection on it versus the 1400? My garage is a multi-purpose space and I try to be as dust conscious as possible.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • AGC 18-115 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 6903
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2020, 04:24 PM »
Keep in mind too that the only router in the Festool line with failsafe centering of template guide bushings is the 1010 (once you add the Leigh template adapter), so if you plan to do a lot of that type of work you should factor that in.

Edward brings up a very important point. The 1400 & 2200 use the same style quick change template guides which CANNOT be centered. You get what you get.

The 1010 uses a screw fastened template guide and it CAN be centered.

My own use is 1010 = 75% of the time, 1400 = 15% of the time, 2200 = 10% of the time.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2020, 05:34 PM »
The 1400 is the best general / all purpose router in the line up.  Plenty of power and still easy to handle. Unless you are doing something specific on a regular basis that requires a really big router, my bet is that you will only need the 2200 about 1% of the time. And the other 99% of the time you will wish you had a lighter better handling router.

Though the 2200 handles well for a router of it's size, but it  is  a beast in size and weight.

In either case get the D36 hose. The DC is much improved on the routers with the larger hose.

Seth
« Last Edit: February 04, 2020, 05:37 PM by SRSemenza »

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1869
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2020, 07:33 PM »
My vote is the 1400.  You will eventually find a need for a router table and it will likely end up with a large router.  You’ll find yourself running 1/2” shank bits on that when possible.  For handheld use, the 1400 is the smallest router than can accept 1/2” bits which is appealing so you’re not buying extra bits (some are In the $100 range).  And frankly, it’s easy finding the bits I want in 1/2”.  About 80% of my bits are 1/2”.  10% are 1/4”, usually for edge profiling with a little trim router.  I have a few specialty 8mm bits as well.  The 1400 will run all of them. 

Centering the templates can be an issue in some instances, so if you need guide bushings for really precise work, I wouldn’t suggest this router.  Using it in a dovetail night is particularly problematic.  But I love everything else about it and it is a little more refined that the 1010 without enough added weight to bother me.  It’s a personal preference thing, so try them out in a store. 
-Raj

Offline Jim_in_PA

  • Posts: 101
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2020, 08:44 PM »
My first Festool router was the OF1400 right after it was released...I was blessed with the ability to borrow a pre-production unit from Mr Marino for a few days and there was no question he was going to get my money for one as soon as they were available for sale. I since also bought the OF1010. These two routers compliment my DW618. (which is mostly used fixed base) I've not felt the need for the big heavy OF2200 as I have a PC7518 in my table.
----
ETS 150/3, Rotex 150, OF1010, OF1400, Trion PS 300, TDK-12, CT-22, MFT 1080, TS55, Domino XL DF 700, 8' track, (2) 55" tracks

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Offline xedos

  • Posts: 237
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2020, 09:08 PM »
Quote
You will eventually find a need for a router table and it will likely end up with a large router.  You’ll find yourself running 1/2” shank bits on that when possible.  For handheld use, the 1400 is the smallest router than can accept 1/2” bits

While this is certainly true, The 1400 isn't really all that great for router tables other than Festool's which is gonna run $1500+  Better options exist for dedicated router tables - or - even when you'll be removing the motor for bigger hand held operations.

For the $600 you'd spend on a 1400 you can get a 2.25 hp router from yellow, green, blue, or grey and a nice router lift. Plus, they all come with both a fixed and a plunge base adding more versatility as well as easily accepting PC guide bushings that can be centered.  Something the 1400 is poorly suited for.  You might even have a bit of dosh left for some plywood to built a router table.

For me the 1400 is pretty good at a lot of things , but not great at any. I tend not to like jack of all trade type tools, so I can't recommend it.   


Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 650
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2020, 08:04 AM »
Or do as I did OP and start with the 1400. .then tell yourself you need an MFK 700. . .then an OF 2200. . .then it'd be really nice to have an OF 1010 for doing shelf pin holes because you can't possibly slog the (perfectly capable) OF 1400 along the LR 32 rail.

It's a sickness. Best to turn around now.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 08:09 AM by DynaGlide »
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Offline schneems

  • Posts: 41
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2020, 11:21 AM »
>  failsafe centering of template guide bushings

What exactly is this? I'm totally new to routers.

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 650
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2020, 01:12 PM »
>  failsafe centering of template guide bushings

What exactly is this? I'm totally new to routers.

Routers freehand are unwieldy. So you use edge guides, track guides, guide bushings and bearings to guide them. The guide bushing is something you put into the routers base and the guide bushing follows a template (think dovetail jig, or a custom template you made yourself to do a mortise for an electrical box, or a door hinge, or whatever you need an accurate size rectangle or other shape). The 1400 and the 2200 have snap in guide bushings. This mechanism is not adjustable. If the router bit is not centered in the guide bushing then it isn't too useful in some situations. On most routers you can adjust the guide bushing to center it to the router bit. The OF 1010 allows for this. The OF 1400 and OF 2200 do not.

I think since you don't have experience with a router I'm going to default to suggesting you get a good cheap one to learn on before you go spending the big bucks. It's too easy to buy the nicest one available when you don't need or even want it for what it'll be used for. If all you're doing are roundovers then it would be extreme overkill to spend $500 and up on a router.
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Online Cheese

  • Posts: 6903
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2020, 03:54 PM »
>  failsafe centering of template guide bushings
What exactly is this? I'm totally new to routers.

This is a photo of the 30 mm template guide for the 1010 on the left and the 1400 on the right. On the far left is a template centering tool.

The 1400 version on the right, is held into the router with a pair of spring latches that hold onto the small downward legs. Where the center of the template guide locates itself in relation to the center of the router collet is a junk shoot. It lands where it lands.

The 1010 version on the left is held into place by 2 small screws and thus allows for some slight adjustment. The template centering tool is placed in the collet and then the cone of the tool is slowly brought into contact with the template guide thus aligning the collet
center and the template center. The screws are then snugged down and these two items are now coplanar.



Another issue with the 1400 & 2200 routers is that because the template guide is held in place with spring pressure only, if there is some side load applied to the template guide, it will move a small and differing amount in all directions. This can really become an issue if you're using a template to machine out a round hole...think MFT tops. The routed holes can become egg shaped.

This photo shows the 1400 template being pushed UP and the indicator is zeroed out.




The template is now being pushed DOWN and you can see .008" of movement.




Now we rotate the router 90º, and we again push the template UP and zero out the indicator.




The template is now again being pushed DOWN and you can see .003" of movement.




So as you move the router in a circular motion and depending upon the side load generated, the router bit is constantly moving in a wonky manner which can produce holes that unfortunately look like this.




Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 650
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2020, 05:03 PM »
@Cheese Thank you for the detailed photos and explanation. Another reason to use the LR32 system for MFT holes.
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Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1869
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2020, 07:28 PM »
While this is certainly true, The 1400 isn't really all that great for router tables other than Festool's which is gonna run $1500+  Better options exist for dedicated router tables - or - even when you'll be removing the motor for bigger hand held operations.

Sorry, I wasn’t clear.  A table and large router are an inevitability in my mind.  So another handheld router that can also use 1/2” bits will be useful.  In terms of using a single router in the table and handheld...obviously possible, he can decide whether he wants to.  If he wants to buy a single router for both purposes, I would agree, get another brand commonly supported by the lifts. 

One of the largest draws to Festool routers for me was the dust collection.  Nothing else offered above the deck, below the deck and edge guide duct collection options out of the box.  I don’t know if that’s still true?
-Raj

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1193
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2020, 09:00 PM »
FWIW, I have the 1400 and 2200.  I like using 1/2 shank bits so the 1010 is out.  The 2200 is mounted for the most part permanently in a CMS GE and the 1400 I like to use for doing dovetails using a SuperJig.  Another thing I discovered in the superjig that the e-bush won't fit into the 2200 without another accessory where it fits perfectly into the copy ring on the 1400.  I only got the 2200 because I wanted the HP available that would work great in my CMS plus I got a really great deal (I can't say how  :-X).  Both are fabulous routers, you can't go wrong. 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

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Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1193
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2020, 09:04 PM »
>  failsafe centering of template guide bushings

What exactly is this? I'm totally new to routers.


If all you're doing are roundovers then it would be extreme overkill to spend $500 and up on a router.

so what's not the fun in that? Spending big bucks on tools is what it's all about.  Bragging rights!  ;D
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, OF 1400, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, C18, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE with router and jig saw plates.  Sawstop contractor.

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 237
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2020, 09:43 PM »
Quote
One of the largest draws to Festool routers for me was the dust collection.  Nothing else offered above the deck, below the deck and edge guide duct collection options out of the box.  I don’t know if that’s still true?


The pc 89x and dewalt 618 have dust collection out of the box, as do all Triton routers since the get go.  The Bosch routers don't include dust collection , but the accessories top and bottom are readily available for $20 or less.

The discontinued pc7529 and 8529 had onboard dust collection that is pretty darn good too.  Those predated the 1400 by a bit also .  Bottom collection was offered , but hard to come by.

Thing is though, I think the smaller festool ones are better at hose management. Not a deal breaker, but if we're nit pickin.

Offline Birdhunter

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Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2020, 06:47 AM »
I own all of the Festool routers and think they are all excellent.

However, in your situation, I would buy something like a DeWalt and use the savings for something truly unique like a Domino.
Birdhunter

Online Chris Cianci

  • Posts: 62
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2020, 02:10 PM »
I can’t  argue against any of the above suggestions......To take another path, Many woodworkers end up w 5 or 6 handheld routers perhaps you could pick up a cheap used router and see how often you use it depending on your projects. Another approach into your original question is that often Building contractors buy routers and basic router tables for one job and never use them again, and they will part with them very cheaply. I bought a router table including the router for $30 ....After seeing the benefits of handheld and a table I now own 4 Festool routers and the Festool router table. What I stated above is very inexpensive research on your part that is specific to “your “ work style and project interests  before you go out and get the high end Festool router.
Good luck !

Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 507
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2020, 03:51 PM »
@DynaGlide - In your reply to cheese you referenced “another reason to use the LR32 for MFT holes”. Would you mind explaining a little further for me? I just bought a used LR32 and an OF 1010 which is my first FT router. I assume you say this because in the LR32 system you would bore a 20mm hole with a 20mm router bit and would not have to worry about staying perfectly true while routing around a guided circle with a smaller bit? TIA

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 650
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2020, 04:41 PM »
@DynaGlide - In your reply to cheese you referenced “another reason to use the LR32 for MFT holes”. Would you mind explaining a little further for me? I just bought a used LR32 and an OF 1010 which is my first FT router. I assume you say this because in the LR32 system you would bore a 20mm hole with a 20mm router bit and would not have to worry about staying perfectly true while routing around a guided circle with a smaller bit? TIA

Yes that is correct

@Alanbach https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/mft-hole-jigs/msg560211/#msg560211
« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 05:15 PM by DynaGlide »
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Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 507
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2020, 09:21 PM »
@DynaGlide - Thank you!

Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 507
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2020, 09:37 PM »
@DynaGlide - Sorry but I forgot to ask one more question. Do you think that my OF1010 will spin the Festool 20mm boring bit through MDF effectively and without burning up the router? I have not used many router bits that are smaller than 1/2” shafts in quite some time and I have never used what is basically a Forster bit in a router before. Enough power to do the job?

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 650
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2020, 06:28 AM »
@DynaGlide - Sorry but I forgot to ask one more question. Do you think that my OF1010 will spin the Festool 20mm boring bit through MDF effectively and without burning up the router? I have not used many router bits that are smaller than 1/2” shafts in quite some time and I have never used what is basically a Forster bit in a router before. Enough power to do the job?

I don't own the 1010 but if it can spin the 35mm hinge bit then I would think 20mm should be no problem
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Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2833
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2020, 07:08 AM »
I would be wary of spinning a 20mm cutter on a 1/4" shaft. If I tried that, I'd take very light cuts.

If the cutter were to separate from the shaft, you have a very dangerous high speed spinning projectile going somewhere very fast.

There is a good reason that large router cutters are one 1/2" shafts.
Birdhunter

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 650
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2020, 07:43 AM »
I would be wary of spinning a 20mm cutter on a 1/4" shaft. If I tried that, I'd take very light cuts.

If the cutter were to separate from the shaft, you have a very dangerous high speed spinning projectile going somewhere very fast.

There is a good reason that large router cutters are one 1/2" shafts.

It isn't 1/4" it's 8mm.

https://www.festoolproducts.com/festool-491072-euro-hinge-boring-bit-hw-20mm.html
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Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 507
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2020, 08:26 AM »
@Birdhunter @DynaGlide -This is exactly why I asked the question. I was surprised that FT made both bits with the smaller 8mm shaft. Seems like a lot of bit. Also surprised that given that I read everywhere how great the 1010 is with the LR32. I understand that the big use is drilling 5mm holes for shelf pins but still...

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 237
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2020, 09:22 AM »
@Birdhunter @DynaGlide -This is exactly why I asked the question. I was surprised that FT made both bits with the smaller 8mm shaft. Seems like a lot of bit. Also surprised that given that I read everywhere how great the 1010 is with the LR32. I understand that the big use is drilling 5mm holes for shelf pins but still...

Why the surprise ?   We're talking about European routers.  8mm is the defacto standard for big bits.  Or it was when I lived there last century.  Take a look at FT's catalog - their big mortising, roundover and ogee bits all have 8mm shanks. There's a lot of meat on an 8mm shank, so there's no real need to worry.

The real drawback is that 8mm bits aren't prevalent in the USA  except for Leigh - at those are just straight and dovetail bit.  So you have to have plan ahead and usually pay a premium over a comp. 1/2" bit.  But to think they aren't up to the task is erroneous.

No one thinks twice about how small in diameter the original Domino cutters are, and they are hogging out a lot of material.  this operation for years was the domain of big routers with 1/2" shank straight cutters and jig.

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 650
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2020, 09:34 AM »
@Birdhunter @DynaGlide -This is exactly why I asked the question. I was surprised that FT made both bits with the smaller 8mm shaft. Seems like a lot of bit. Also surprised that given that I read everywhere how great the 1010 is with the LR32. I understand that the big use is drilling 5mm holes for shelf pins but still...

Why the surprise ?   We're talking about European routers.  8mm is the defacto standard for big bits.  Or it was when I lived there last century.  Take a look at FT's catalog - their big mortising, roundover and ogee bits all have 8mm shanks. There's a lot of meat on an 8mm shank, so there's no real need to worry.

The real drawback is that 8mm bits aren't prevalent in the USA  except for Leigh - at those are just straight and dovetail bit.  So you have to have plan ahead and usually pay a premium over a comp. 1/2" bit.  But to think they aren't up to the task is erroneous.

No one thinks twice about how small in diameter the original Domino cutters are, and they are hogging out a lot of material.  this operation for years was the domain of big routers with 1/2" shank straight cutters and jig.

@xedos While we're de-railing this thread into obscurity, would you happen to have a good source for 8mm shank bits? I want to stop using 1/2" altogether unless I know it's going to be for table operation. I don't own the 1010 router but will one day and want to have all my handheld bits in 8mm shank.

I saw some sets offered by Bosch and others in Germany with mixed reviews. I'll be traveling over there in a few months and am thinking of small items I could bring back with me.
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Online Cheese

  • Posts: 6903
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2020, 09:50 AM »
Do you think that my OF1010 will spin the Festool 20mm boring bit through MDF effectively and without burning up the router? I have not used many router bits that are smaller than 1/2” shafts in quite some time and I have never used what is basically a Forster bit in a router before. Enough power to do the job?

More than enough power for the task.

I started to make a 18 mm ply MFT using the Woodpeckers template and the 1400 but ran into the alignment/centering issues I've discussed already.

I finished the project using the 1010 router with a custom centered template guide and the 20 mm 491072 router bit.

Just dial the speed back a bit and there will be nice round holes with NO burning. Remember, you're not putting any side load on the bit it's just a straight plunge cut.

Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 507
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2020, 02:16 PM »
I want to apologize as I definitely have derailed this thread. Thank you to all for the helpful information! I will stop it now!

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 237
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2020, 09:32 PM »
Quote
@xedos While we're de-railing this thread into obscurity, would you happen to have a good source for 8mm shank bits?

Of course, and a loooong one.

if you get the blessing of the peanut gallery I'll post it.  Wouldn't want to derail the thread anymore.  [tongue]

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 498
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2020, 03:03 PM »
Dust collection on both is excellent, and I don't think you're losing anything in that area by going with the 1010 rather than the 1400.

In case you don't alraady know about it, a fantastic accessory that goes with both the 1010 and 1400, though is ideally suited to the former because of its smaller size, is the edging plate, which turns it into a horizontal router.



Just be aware that to make the plate functional you also need the angle arm, and for DC purposes, the chip guard.

1010 is an interesting option. How is the dust collection on it versus the 1400? My garage is a multi-purpose space and I try to be as dust conscious as possible.

That edge set used to be sold in a Systainer... like 15 years ago.

Offline schneems

  • Posts: 41
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2020, 05:58 PM »
It does sound like the 1010 is better to start with if I want to start with a Festool (need good dust collection out of the box). I’m still trying to understand the limitations though. I’ve got a few slices that have been drying for a few years, about 2ft by 2ft. I want to flatten them and make some end/coffee tables. In the past I’ve used a power planer and my patience to do this but it blows out the edges. While I understand it’s not ideal, could you use a 1010 on a router sled? The limitation is that I would have to take lighter passes?

Offline Jeff Zanin

  • Posts: 233
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2020, 07:35 PM »
In my limited experience it is better to think of routers in the plural rather than the singular, as seen in the family portrait below. 

I started with the PC690, added the DW625, then the Ridgid 24012.  The router is one of the most versatile tools but it was also the one that made the biggest mess BF (Before Festool), so I was glad to get the OF1400 and later the MFK 700, and finally the Milwaukee 5625 (in the Jessem table)

I am sure the 2200 and the 1010 are great routers, I have been very happy with the 1400 and the 700 for most of my (hobby) work.

And while it is a bit much to have all these routers I have actually had four of them set up and being used on different parts of a pretty simple project – the OF1400 for LR32 holes, the MFK700 for trimming edge banding, the PC690 for grooving and the Milwaukee 5626 for rounding over.  I was doing the work in fits and starts, so it was great to be able leave each of them set up for a specific task, avoiding setup time and possible inconsistencies.

Jeff

Offline Jeff Zanin

  • Posts: 233
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2020, 07:45 PM »
For flattening 2x2 slabs I would be inclined to get the 2200 first.

Offline online421

  • Posts: 132
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2020, 08:05 PM »
my first router is a 1010. I later bought the 2200 to do larger cuts if I need to. anything bigger I do it on my spindle moulder.

good thing about 1010 is that you can operate it with one hand, not sure if you can do this with 1400.

Griggio Unica400
Felder AD951
Masterwood OMB1V
SCM 5 RCS1100
Casadei FV110
Chicago Pneumatics CPRS10500
Ceccato CDX 12
Holytek DC006
Festool DF700XL, LEX3, OF1010, CT36
JLT 190BM2, JLT 79K10
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Offline schneems

  • Posts: 41
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2020, 08:30 PM »
Nice book collection Jeff. Do you have any standouts in the stack?

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2717
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2020, 09:10 PM »
The OF2200 is my favorite Festool router. An engineering marvel. If I were getting a first router, I would opt for the 1010 or 1400, though. Very versatile and capable machines and easier on the wallet and use when first getting into Festool routers. For handheld use and versatility I think that they both shine. If you need to do big work - hog out lots of material and work on bigger pieces, the 2200 is a great machine. If you are like me you will end up with all of them at some point (or more than one).

Offline jeffinsgf

  • Retailer
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  • Posts: 198
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2020, 09:56 PM »
It does sound like the 1010 is better to start with if I want to start with a Festool (need good dust collection out of the box). I’m still trying to understand the limitations though. I’ve got a few slices that have been drying for a few years, about 2ft by 2ft. I want to flatten them and make some end/coffee tables. In the past I’ve used a power planer and my patience to do this but it blows out the edges. While I understand it’s not ideal, could you use a 1010 on a router sled? The limitation is that I would have to take lighter passes?

While I truly love my 1000 (predecessor to the 1010), I wouldn't want to tackle slab flattening with it. You really need a 1/2" collet to run any decent sized flattening cutter.

Given that machining those pieces is the first project you've mentioned...I would lean toward the 1400. I have a fairly new 1400...haven't used it much yet, but when I have used it I've been very impressed. We have a 2200 at work and I can attest to its capability flattening slabs. It does an amazing job, but for everyday normal routing jobs it is a lot to lug around. If you had said you had a couple 2' x 10' slabs, I'd have said 2200. But, for a couple 2x2's, a 1400 will do fine and you'll have a very versatile router for your next project.

Offline nvalinski

  • Posts: 105
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2020, 08:32 AM »
Food for thought on flattening 2x2 slabs... dust collection on any of the Festool routers won't help. You may want to just pick up a cheaper Porter Cable/Dewalt/whatever if this is what you are looking to do. I'm sure you can incorporate brushes and a dust port into your flattening sled to pull the dust. If you want to use it for grooving/edging later, Oneida makes a universal dust hood that you could tack onto it to get similar dust collection for 1/3 of the price all in. With that kind of pricing, you could feasibly purchase both a 1010 and cheaper but more powerful router for roughly the same price as a 1400. Maybe the slightly more powerful one becomes a router table occasionally as well.

Offline Jeff Zanin

  • Posts: 233
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2020, 03:42 PM »
Nice book collection Jeff. Do you have any standouts in the stack?

The Nick Engler ones are the best for my level (intermediate / hobbiest), he describes tools, setup, bit selection but also includes jigs and some projects with plans a drawings.  They are part of a series on woodworking tools and techniques.

The Hylton/Matlack one is also quite good.

Offline jcrowe1950

  • Festool Dealer Affiliate
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  • Posts: 40
    • Woodcraft Chattanooga, TN
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #52 on: February 14, 2020, 06:33 PM »
The 1400 is the best general / all purpose router in the line up.  Plenty of power and still easy to handle. Unless you are doing something specific on a regular basis that requires a really big router, my bet is that you will only need the 2200 about 1% of the time. And the other 99% of the time you will wish you had a lighter better handling router.

Though the 2200 handles well for a router of it's size, but it  is  a beast in size and weight.

In either case get the D36 hose. The DC is much improved on the routers with the larger hose.

Seth

Everything Seth has said here matches my experience. I have used routers for a long time and before I I attended a Festool router class, I was extremely skeptical that I could justify the $600 pricetag for an OF1400. However, the first time I did a routed mortise with an edge guide in that class, I was sold. No jig was used or needed. This is an operation that I have done many times in the past but it was so simple and straightforward and mostly dust free that I was sold. That said, this is just one application of that tool. The OF1010 is nice in the LR32 system but it is limited to only 1/4" and 8mm collets and if one can only have one router for some duration, that is too limiting to me. Another wonderful aspect of Festool's OF1400 is how versatile using it on a guide rail makes it. Dados, rabbets, shiplaps and sliding dovetails are easy and precise (also on the MFT). I have only gotten to use the OF2200 in a couple of classes as we do not have a demo model at the store. That said, with its base kit I did not find it at all intimidating to use (and I'm a pretty small guy). The challenging aspect of all these tools, and Festool tools in general is to discover all the little engineering features that are available but not always obvious. All of this is my long winded way of saying for me the OF1400 was a no-brainer. It is a perfect compromise of power, features, size and versatility for me. Oh, and it rocks in the CMS-OF VL.
Festool Specialist at Woodcraft, Chattanooga, TN