Author Topic: First Router 1400 or 2200?  (Read 3150 times)

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Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 635
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2020, 04:41 PM »
@DynaGlide - In your reply to cheese you referenced “another reason to use the LR32 for MFT holes”. Would you mind explaining a little further for me? I just bought a used LR32 and an OF 1010 which is my first FT router. I assume you say this because in the LR32 system you would bore a 20mm hole with a 20mm router bit and would not have to worry about staying perfectly true while routing around a guided circle with a smaller bit? TIA

Yes that is correct

@Alanbach https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/mft-hole-jigs/msg560211/#msg560211
« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 05:15 PM by DynaGlide »
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Offline Alanbach

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Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2020, 09:21 PM »
@DynaGlide - Thank you!

Offline Alanbach

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Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2020, 09:37 PM »
@DynaGlide - Sorry but I forgot to ask one more question. Do you think that my OF1010 will spin the Festool 20mm boring bit through MDF effectively and without burning up the router? I have not used many router bits that are smaller than 1/2” shafts in quite some time and I have never used what is basically a Forster bit in a router before. Enough power to do the job?

Offline DynaGlide

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Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2020, 06:28 AM »
@DynaGlide - Sorry but I forgot to ask one more question. Do you think that my OF1010 will spin the Festool 20mm boring bit through MDF effectively and without burning up the router? I have not used many router bits that are smaller than 1/2” shafts in quite some time and I have never used what is basically a Forster bit in a router before. Enough power to do the job?

I don't own the 1010 but if it can spin the 35mm hinge bit then I would think 20mm should be no problem
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Offline Birdhunter

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Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2020, 07:08 AM »
I would be wary of spinning a 20mm cutter on a 1/4" shaft. If I tried that, I'd take very light cuts.

If the cutter were to separate from the shaft, you have a very dangerous high speed spinning projectile going somewhere very fast.

There is a good reason that large router cutters are one 1/2" shafts.
Birdhunter

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 635
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2020, 07:43 AM »
I would be wary of spinning a 20mm cutter on a 1/4" shaft. If I tried that, I'd take very light cuts.

If the cutter were to separate from the shaft, you have a very dangerous high speed spinning projectile going somewhere very fast.

There is a good reason that large router cutters are one 1/2" shafts.

It isn't 1/4" it's 8mm.

https://www.festoolproducts.com/festool-491072-euro-hinge-boring-bit-hw-20mm.html
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Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 502
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2020, 08:26 AM »
@Birdhunter @DynaGlide -This is exactly why I asked the question. I was surprised that FT made both bits with the smaller 8mm shaft. Seems like a lot of bit. Also surprised that given that I read everywhere how great the 1010 is with the LR32. I understand that the big use is drilling 5mm holes for shelf pins but still...

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 231
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2020, 09:22 AM »
@Birdhunter @DynaGlide -This is exactly why I asked the question. I was surprised that FT made both bits with the smaller 8mm shaft. Seems like a lot of bit. Also surprised that given that I read everywhere how great the 1010 is with the LR32. I understand that the big use is drilling 5mm holes for shelf pins but still...

Why the surprise ?   We're talking about European routers.  8mm is the defacto standard for big bits.  Or it was when I lived there last century.  Take a look at FT's catalog - their big mortising, roundover and ogee bits all have 8mm shanks. There's a lot of meat on an 8mm shank, so there's no real need to worry.

The real drawback is that 8mm bits aren't prevalent in the USA  except for Leigh - at those are just straight and dovetail bit.  So you have to have plan ahead and usually pay a premium over a comp. 1/2" bit.  But to think they aren't up to the task is erroneous.

No one thinks twice about how small in diameter the original Domino cutters are, and they are hogging out a lot of material.  this operation for years was the domain of big routers with 1/2" shank straight cutters and jig.

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 635
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2020, 09:34 AM »
@Birdhunter @DynaGlide -This is exactly why I asked the question. I was surprised that FT made both bits with the smaller 8mm shaft. Seems like a lot of bit. Also surprised that given that I read everywhere how great the 1010 is with the LR32. I understand that the big use is drilling 5mm holes for shelf pins but still...

Why the surprise ?   We're talking about European routers.  8mm is the defacto standard for big bits.  Or it was when I lived there last century.  Take a look at FT's catalog - their big mortising, roundover and ogee bits all have 8mm shanks. There's a lot of meat on an 8mm shank, so there's no real need to worry.

The real drawback is that 8mm bits aren't prevalent in the USA  except for Leigh - at those are just straight and dovetail bit.  So you have to have plan ahead and usually pay a premium over a comp. 1/2" bit.  But to think they aren't up to the task is erroneous.

No one thinks twice about how small in diameter the original Domino cutters are, and they are hogging out a lot of material.  this operation for years was the domain of big routers with 1/2" shank straight cutters and jig.

@xedos While we're de-railing this thread into obscurity, would you happen to have a good source for 8mm shank bits? I want to stop using 1/2" altogether unless I know it's going to be for table operation. I don't own the 1010 router but will one day and want to have all my handheld bits in 8mm shank.

I saw some sets offered by Bosch and others in Germany with mixed reviews. I'll be traveling over there in a few months and am thinking of small items I could bring back with me.
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Online Cheese

  • Posts: 6886
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2020, 09:50 AM »
Do you think that my OF1010 will spin the Festool 20mm boring bit through MDF effectively and without burning up the router? I have not used many router bits that are smaller than 1/2” shafts in quite some time and I have never used what is basically a Forster bit in a router before. Enough power to do the job?

More than enough power for the task.

I started to make a 18 mm ply MFT using the Woodpeckers template and the 1400 but ran into the alignment/centering issues I've discussed already.

I finished the project using the 1010 router with a custom centered template guide and the 20 mm 491072 router bit.

Just dial the speed back a bit and there will be nice round holes with NO burning. Remember, you're not putting any side load on the bit it's just a straight plunge cut.

Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 502
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2020, 02:16 PM »
I want to apologize as I definitely have derailed this thread. Thank you to all for the helpful information! I will stop it now!

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 231
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2020, 09:32 PM »
Quote
@xedos While we're de-railing this thread into obscurity, would you happen to have a good source for 8mm shank bits?

Of course, and a loooong one.

if you get the blessing of the peanut gallery I'll post it.  Wouldn't want to derail the thread anymore.  [tongue]

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 496
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2020, 03:03 PM »
Dust collection on both is excellent, and I don't think you're losing anything in that area by going with the 1010 rather than the 1400.

In case you don't alraady know about it, a fantastic accessory that goes with both the 1010 and 1400, though is ideally suited to the former because of its smaller size, is the edging plate, which turns it into a horizontal router.



Just be aware that to make the plate functional you also need the angle arm, and for DC purposes, the chip guard.

1010 is an interesting option. How is the dust collection on it versus the 1400? My garage is a multi-purpose space and I try to be as dust conscious as possible.

That edge set used to be sold in a Systainer... like 15 years ago.

Offline schneems

  • Posts: 41
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2020, 05:58 PM »
It does sound like the 1010 is better to start with if I want to start with a Festool (need good dust collection out of the box). I’m still trying to understand the limitations though. I’ve got a few slices that have been drying for a few years, about 2ft by 2ft. I want to flatten them and make some end/coffee tables. In the past I’ve used a power planer and my patience to do this but it blows out the edges. While I understand it’s not ideal, could you use a 1010 on a router sled? The limitation is that I would have to take lighter passes?

Offline Jeff Zanin

  • Posts: 233
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2020, 07:35 PM »
In my limited experience it is better to think of routers in the plural rather than the singular, as seen in the family portrait below. 

I started with the PC690, added the DW625, then the Ridgid 24012.  The router is one of the most versatile tools but it was also the one that made the biggest mess BF (Before Festool), so I was glad to get the OF1400 and later the MFK 700, and finally the Milwaukee 5625 (in the Jessem table)

I am sure the 2200 and the 1010 are great routers, I have been very happy with the 1400 and the 700 for most of my (hobby) work.

And while it is a bit much to have all these routers I have actually had four of them set up and being used on different parts of a pretty simple project – the OF1400 for LR32 holes, the MFK700 for trimming edge banding, the PC690 for grooving and the Milwaukee 5626 for rounding over.  I was doing the work in fits and starts, so it was great to be able leave each of them set up for a specific task, avoiding setup time and possible inconsistencies.

Jeff

Offline Jeff Zanin

  • Posts: 233
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2020, 07:45 PM »
For flattening 2x2 slabs I would be inclined to get the 2200 first.

Offline online421

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Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2020, 08:05 PM »
my first router is a 1010. I later bought the 2200 to do larger cuts if I need to. anything bigger I do it on my spindle moulder.

good thing about 1010 is that you can operate it with one hand, not sure if you can do this with 1400.

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Offline schneems

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Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2020, 08:30 PM »
Nice book collection Jeff. Do you have any standouts in the stack?

Offline ScotF

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Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2020, 09:10 PM »
The OF2200 is my favorite Festool router. An engineering marvel. If I were getting a first router, I would opt for the 1010 or 1400, though. Very versatile and capable machines and easier on the wallet and use when first getting into Festool routers. For handheld use and versatility I think that they both shine. If you need to do big work - hog out lots of material and work on bigger pieces, the 2200 is a great machine. If you are like me you will end up with all of them at some point (or more than one).

Offline jeffinsgf

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Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2020, 09:56 PM »
It does sound like the 1010 is better to start with if I want to start with a Festool (need good dust collection out of the box). I’m still trying to understand the limitations though. I’ve got a few slices that have been drying for a few years, about 2ft by 2ft. I want to flatten them and make some end/coffee tables. In the past I’ve used a power planer and my patience to do this but it blows out the edges. While I understand it’s not ideal, could you use a 1010 on a router sled? The limitation is that I would have to take lighter passes?

While I truly love my 1000 (predecessor to the 1010), I wouldn't want to tackle slab flattening with it. You really need a 1/2" collet to run any decent sized flattening cutter.

Given that machining those pieces is the first project you've mentioned...I would lean toward the 1400. I have a fairly new 1400...haven't used it much yet, but when I have used it I've been very impressed. We have a 2200 at work and I can attest to its capability flattening slabs. It does an amazing job, but for everyday normal routing jobs it is a lot to lug around. If you had said you had a couple 2' x 10' slabs, I'd have said 2200. But, for a couple 2x2's, a 1400 will do fine and you'll have a very versatile router for your next project.

Online nvalinski

  • Posts: 105
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2020, 08:32 AM »
Food for thought on flattening 2x2 slabs... dust collection on any of the Festool routers won't help. You may want to just pick up a cheaper Porter Cable/Dewalt/whatever if this is what you are looking to do. I'm sure you can incorporate brushes and a dust port into your flattening sled to pull the dust. If you want to use it for grooving/edging later, Oneida makes a universal dust hood that you could tack onto it to get similar dust collection for 1/3 of the price all in. With that kind of pricing, you could feasibly purchase both a 1010 and cheaper but more powerful router for roughly the same price as a 1400. Maybe the slightly more powerful one becomes a router table occasionally as well.

Offline Jeff Zanin

  • Posts: 233
Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2020, 03:42 PM »
Nice book collection Jeff. Do you have any standouts in the stack?

The Nick Engler ones are the best for my level (intermediate / hobbiest), he describes tools, setup, bit selection but also includes jigs and some projects with plans a drawings.  They are part of a series on woodworking tools and techniques.

The Hylton/Matlack one is also quite good.

Offline jcrowe1950

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Re: First Router 1400 or 2200?
« Reply #52 on: February 14, 2020, 06:33 PM »
The 1400 is the best general / all purpose router in the line up.  Plenty of power and still easy to handle. Unless you are doing something specific on a regular basis that requires a really big router, my bet is that you will only need the 2200 about 1% of the time. And the other 99% of the time you will wish you had a lighter better handling router.

Though the 2200 handles well for a router of it's size, but it  is  a beast in size and weight.

In either case get the D36 hose. The DC is much improved on the routers with the larger hose.

Seth

Everything Seth has said here matches my experience. I have used routers for a long time and before I I attended a Festool router class, I was extremely skeptical that I could justify the $600 pricetag for an OF1400. However, the first time I did a routed mortise with an edge guide in that class, I was sold. No jig was used or needed. This is an operation that I have done many times in the past but it was so simple and straightforward and mostly dust free that I was sold. That said, this is just one application of that tool. The OF1010 is nice in the LR32 system but it is limited to only 1/4" and 8mm collets and if one can only have one router for some duration, that is too limiting to me. Another wonderful aspect of Festool's OF1400 is how versatile using it on a guide rail makes it. Dados, rabbets, shiplaps and sliding dovetails are easy and precise (also on the MFT). I have only gotten to use the OF2200 in a couple of classes as we do not have a demo model at the store. That said, with its base kit I did not find it at all intimidating to use (and I'm a pretty small guy). The challenging aspect of all these tools, and Festool tools in general is to discover all the little engineering features that are available but not always obvious. All of this is my long winded way of saying for me the OF1400 was a no-brainer. It is a perfect compromise of power, features, size and versatility for me. Oh, and it rocks in the CMS-OF VL.
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