Author Topic: Festool TS60 K ?  (Read 11724 times)

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Offline leftistelf

  • Posts: 57
Festool TS60 K ?
« on: July 12, 2022, 05:24 AM »
Seems like Festool posted a video of a new saws today… anyone have any details?




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Offline figle

  • Posts: 3
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2022, 05:35 AM »
I've seen it on Festool's website. Looks like 5mm deeper cut than the 55, new narrower blades and the ability to use the FSK rails.

I'm kind of thinking heavily now how it compares to TSC55 I got a week ago, especially the FSK rail option. I'd argue using FSK rails would be more suited for a cordless saw. Nonetheless, I wonder how different is the foot on the TS60 compared to say TSC55 and if in theory Festool could provide it as an option for the other saws?

Offline JINRO

  • Posts: 143
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2022, 07:58 AM »
I'm guessing this is for cuts between 55 and 75 but uses thinner blade? Owning both 55 and 75, I need to justify myself not to buy this one :p

Offline woodbutcherbower

  • Posts: 447
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2022, 08:36 AM »
What a strange product. It's a TS55 which cuts only 5mm deeper.

Maybe I'm missing something, but what's the point, and who exactly is this tool aimed at? It's like them bringing out a CT27, CT37 and CT49 which will all run in parallel with the existing range. If they'd updated and replaced the TS55 with this, I'd completely understand - but two saws in the range whose capacities are only a whisker apart?

It also has a UK list price approaching £700 - that's 27% more than a TS55, and only £100 less than a TS75. Thanks - but I'll pass.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2022, 08:49 AM by woodbutcherbower »

Offline JINRO

  • Posts: 143
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2022, 08:54 AM »
What a strange product. It's a TS55 which cuts only 5mm deeper.

Maybe I'm missing something, but what's the point, and who exactly is this tool aimed at? It's like them bringing out a CT27, CT37 and CT49 which will all run in parallel with the existing range. If they'd updated and replaced the TS55 with this, I'd completely understand - but two saws in the range whose capacities are only a whisker apart?

It also has a UK list price approaching £700 - that's 27% more than a TS55, and only £100 less than a TS75. Thanks - but I'll pass.

I'm beginning to wonder too after reading your thoughts.  There is no merit unless it's incorporated with some new features. Updated TS55 was also not much upgrade from the original. I was expecting incorporated LCD/LED screen which I saw somewhere in FOG. But since appearance looks similar to it's predecessor doesn't seem to assert any outstanding new features.

Offline figle

  • Posts: 3
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2022, 10:03 AM »
Just talked to Festool rep. There's also blade cut markings on the other side of the foot, upgraded depth scale setting (same arrow type as in angle setting). Yes, nothing major.

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 1514
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2022, 10:21 AM »


https://www.festool.com/products/sawing/circular-saws/576721---ts-60-kebq-plus

A few thoughts:

It has a front handle similar to the HK/HKC.

It can use the FSK rails like the HK/HKC.

The ability to use it on FSK rails means that construction folk can get their 45-degree bevels on 2-by material, which has been the chief complaint against the HK/HKC-55.

It appears to have a rubberized grip.  I don't mind rubberized grips, but something in my body's chemistry destroys most rubberized coatings faster than the average human, so I'd be constantly worried about using gloves with it.

I'm having a hard time deciding if this is intended as a replacement for the HK/HKC 55, and the TS 55 remains the go-to for sheet goods until such time as they merge the two into a single offering.  After all, the chief advantage to the HK/HKC in construction-type work is the fact that it's NOT primarily a plunge saw; it handles like any other circular saw, just way over the top.

It seems like an awful lot of time and money to spend on a "pathfinder" or "market study" type of saw, so it'll be interesting in the long-term to see whether the HK/HKC gets a new variant or if it's quietly phased out over time.  I would say that was the fate for the TS/TSC-55, but they literally just updated it, so it seems silly to drop it from the lineup in favor of this model.

Offline GoingMyWay

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Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2022, 10:33 AM »
Here's a video of the TS 60 K on the FSK rail:



I also just noticed that the TS 60 K has the integrated KickbackStop like the TSC 55 K and also has a brushless EC-TEC motor.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2022, 10:39 AM by GoingMyWay »
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Offline tsmi243

  • Posts: 288
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2022, 02:45 PM »
What a strange product. It's a TS55 which cuts only 5mm deeper.


Most tracksaws, you go all the way to 10, and that's all you get.  This one goes to 11. 

Offline Ebuwan

  • Posts: 121
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2022, 03:08 PM »
Watching the video, seems it's geared toward hipsters from Brooklyn and people into raving.

Offline Maestronus

  • Posts: 21
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2022, 03:53 PM »
1500W brushless (vs 1200W brushed) so AT LEAST 25% more power. Brushless can be 10-15% more efficient so adding up it could have like 40% more power.
62mm depth (vs 50mm) so 25% more capacity
4.8kg (vs 4.3kg) so 12% heavier
6800 max rpm (vs 5800), 17% more
FSK rail compatibility
Anti-kickback like the TSC K
Improved depth adjustment(?)
~27% higher MSRP(?)

Seems like a pretty nice portable and powerful hybrid to me, when you can’t own/bring a kapex/multiple saws.
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Offline woodbutcherbower

  • Posts: 447
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2022, 05:29 PM »
What a strange product. It's a TS55 which cuts only 5mm deeper.


Most tracksaws, you go all the way to 10, and that's all you get.  This one goes to 11.

Yeah - but you can’t touch it. You can’t even look at it.

(It's a Spinal Tap joke for anyone who doesn't understand this reply to the above post  [smile])
« Last Edit: July 13, 2022, 02:16 PM by woodbutcherbower »

Offline Paul_HKI

  • Posts: 203
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2022, 06:26 PM »
Hmmm.  Maybe it's just a big bigger so they can fill up the wasted space in the Sys3 it'll ship in?   [big grin]
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Offline jimbo51

  • Posts: 549
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2022, 08:44 PM »
In my limited experience, a TSK 55 cannot routinely make a clean 45 degree bevel cut in a 2x construction lumber.  A few extra mms would address that issue.

A recent post warned against using a 165mm blade in a TS 55.

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1805
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2022, 12:46 AM »
No riving knife, no deal.

Great that it has anti-kickback, but it still doesn't protect against the cut-off closing getting chopped up at the rear of the blade if there is tension in the wood.

Nice to cut into thicker wooden countertops... current TS55 lacks just a few mm sometimes.

Good to see a new more powerfull and brushless motor. With the brushelss... makes me wonder why it's still 500 grams heavier. Probably the base to accomodate the FSK rails..

I wonder... can the TS 55 FEBQ riving knife be modded onto it?

Now that I mentioned the riving knife... I just see now that the TS 55 R and F have a riving knife that doesn't go as deep as the first TS 55's.

A recent post warned against using a 165mm blade in a TS 55.

TS 60 K uses 168 mm blades. Still 1.8mm thick.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2022, 12:59 AM by Coen »

Offline figle

  • Posts: 3
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2022, 04:48 AM »
Seems like a pretty nice portable and powerful hybrid to me, when you can’t own/bring a kapex/multiple saws.
But is corded truly portable? I bet we'll see a cordless version next year. It will make more sense with FSK, I think.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 10010
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2022, 10:49 AM »
No riving knife, no deal.

I have a serious question, in the wild does it really make that much of a difference on a track saw? I understand the theory behind it but I've had more issues with the kerf closing when using a table saw rather than a track saw.

I used the TS 55 for 6-7 years and then the TSC for 4 years without a single issue. It was because of those 11 problem-less years that I decided 3 years ago to move on to the MT 55 and now recently the TSC/K. Three years in and ripping 4/4 & 6/4 maple & aromatic cedar with the MT 55 and I still haven't had an issue. Just lucky?

Offline mino

  • Posts: 1129
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2022, 11:00 AM »
This looks 90% like an /eventual/ TS55 replacement to me:

Interesting is the motor seems to be arranged like an angle-grinder - resolving issues with motor overhanging the rails and interacting with rail attachments.

Definitely targeted the key TS55 complaints:
 - power (attack on MT55)
 - depth of cut (already mentioned)
 - compatibility with 165mm blades
 - compatibility with FSK rails

They payed with more weight, but that was likely inevitable given the brushless motor with more power.

Looks geared also for carpentry - covers both TS and HK55 use cases for many people.

Just from a glance, were I to buy a single saw for a one-man-shop or hobby use, this would be what I would want.

ADD
No riving knife, no deal.

I have a serious question, in the wild does it really make that much of a difference on a track saw? I understand the theory behind it but I've had more issues with the kerf closing when using a table saw rather than a track saw.

I used the TS 55 for 6-7 years and then the TSC for 4 years without a single issue. It was because of those 11 problem-less years that I decided 3 years ago to move on to the MT 55 and now recently the TSC/K. Three years in and ripping 4/4 & 6/4 maple & aromatic cedar with the MT 55 and I still haven't had an issue. Just lucky?
Yes it does.

The problem is that even when the saw does not kick, it damages the cut surface. When ripping a narrow-ish piece from a plank it commonly closes after only 30 centimeters - when there was accumulated tension.

We have Parkside saws without riving knifes and I would never consider them for ripping narrow pieces from a plank. With the TSC it is a non-issue as the knife is just 0.1mm narrower so the blade barely scratches the cut surface. For sheet goods there is no need indeed.

Forgot to mention, above is experience with softwood. I have not seen beech or oak with so much tension to cause a problem, they would crack instead long before that.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2022, 11:14 AM by mino »
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Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2022, 12:08 PM »
Seems like a pretty nice portable and powerful hybrid to me, when you can’t own/bring a kapex/multiple saws.
But is corded truly portable? I bet we'll see a cordless version next year. It will make more sense with FSK, I think.

+1 [thumbs up]

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 2373
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2022, 12:26 PM »
This looks 90% like an /eventual/ TS55 replacement to me:

Interesting is the motor seems to be arranged like an angle-grinder - resolving issues with motor overhanging the rails and interacting with rail attachments.

....

Just from a glance, were I to buy a single saw for a one-man-shop or hobby use, this would be what I would want.


I hadn't noticed the lack of the motor overhang; this is probably my one remaining gripe about the TSC/K. I recently got around this, for my use case, by buying a full set of Bench Dogs Quad Dogs and using whatever length needed to avoid interference.

Totally agree with your points and if I were in the market for a new saw I'd lean towards the TS60.

RMW
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Offline woodbutcherbower

  • Posts: 447
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2022, 01:35 PM »
I take back everything I said about the TS60. Think that just those few mm makes no difference? I jumped in with both feet, thinking "The number of times a TS55 doesn't cut deep enough only happens once or twice a year, and I can finish the cut using a Japanese saw as usual. If I need to cut much thicker material, I'll either use the shop bandsaw or out onsite - my P1CC with a 150mm or 200mm Bosch blade hung on the end of it''. Well - right enough 99.9% of the time, but today I was fitting new 38mm laminate countertops for a customer's kitchen makeover;

Customer - "Can you do me a waterfall on the end of the countertop run so that it folds over and then continues down to the floor?"

Me - "Sure I can ........" (knowing that these are always tricky because the 45-degree countertop bevels have to be super-square, super-accurate and super-clean, and the cheap laminate the customer had bought chips out alarmingly easily). 

But - the countertops weren't 38mm, were they? They were an oddball 43mm (which I've never, ever encountered before in over 300 kitchen jobs), and the TS55's 45-degree bevel cuts at maximum plunge weren't deep enough. Absolute nightmare. I fixed it and got it done, but it took forever. My TS55 is ancient, so when it's 'either spend some money or pay more tax' time at the end of the year, I'll be upgrading. I'll even modify the racking in my van to take the looney-tunes new Systainer3 size for it.



FWIW - I don't care about the lack of a riving knife either, the only kickback I ever had was caused by a combination of tiredness, complacency and my own stupidity. Even using saws with one, if I'm in any doubt whatsoever about the tail-end of a cut closing up on me, I'll always pop a wedge in there just to be sure. My humble apologies to Festool's design team for instantly dismissing their splendid new machine. I feel like a bit of a chump [crying]
« Last Edit: July 13, 2022, 06:30 PM by woodbutcherbower »

Offline glass1

  • Posts: 599
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2022, 01:58 PM »
Metabo has already released saws which are cordless. The kt and ks. 6 1/2” blades. 2 3/8” on the rails. One is fs style and one is fsk style. Kt 18 66 bl   Ks 18 66 bl. Well competition is good.

Offline TomK_2

  • Posts: 72
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2022, 04:31 PM »
Ahhhh I just got my TSC 55 K at the end of last year and now this!  [blink]

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 1514
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2022, 05:51 PM »
Just watched the entire "Quick Guide" series of 6 videos on the TS60K:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjhsKxIGMv5Ix0vtRV1U4-frdoDwfpaRE

Helps give a better feel for the size and features/functionality.  Similar-but-different quick-locks for the -1 and 47 degree bevels, similar anti-kickback disabling feature to the TSC55K.

I echo others who have said that a TSC 60 K might be the one I wait for, and then sell the HKC and TS 55's.

Who knows...

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1805
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2022, 07:35 PM »
No riving knife, no deal.

I have a serious question, in the wild does it really make that much of a difference on a track saw? I understand the theory behind it but I've had more issues with the kerf closing when using a table saw rather than a track saw.

I used the TS 55 for 6-7 years and then the TSC for 4 years without a single issue. It was because of those 11 problem-less years that I decided 3 years ago to move on to the MT 55 and now recently the TSC/K. Three years in and ripping 4/4 & 6/4 maple & aromatic cedar with the MT 55 and I still haven't had an issue. Just lucky?

What do you define as an issue?

I've never had problems with kickback. Kerf closing... more than enough. It's not about the kickback for me either, it's about the cut quality being ruined by the kerf closing on the rear of the blade and messing things up. No amount of electronics will prevent that. So these riving-knifeless saws... I see it as a big downgrade.

I wonder if some dipsh*t is gonna do the same on table saws. I hope not.

I see it also as a step down in inherent safety. Riving knifes can be removed... but that stupid switch braking off and getting hotwired... you know that's gonna happen...

Offline ToolCrazy

  • Posts: 11
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2022, 10:13 AM »
It's about time for a hybrid corded / cordless track saw. And I would like to know what testing has revealed that has justified omitting the riving knife. Almost every other feature is now in the TS 60 KEBQ so that the TS 55 models can be discontinued.

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1805
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2022, 04:41 PM »
There is not gonna be a hybrid as it would massively add weight.

The omitting of the riving knife is just stupid, but all the hype at the moment. They can add the kickback detection on top if they want.

Offline Yardbird

  • Posts: 362
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2022, 05:34 PM »
Concerning a Hybrid saw:
Festool makes a 110/ battery hybrid with their FTSC 125 and RTSC and DTSC 400 sanders.  The set has a convertor that replaces the battery then plugs into 110v.  This is a different style battery than the normal Festool batteries, but  I have wondered why Festool has not marketed a convertor that allows the user to use 110v in their normal battery tools.  I know this is a step backwards, but would provide a definite backup when the batteries go bad.  But then I am from an era when a car's dimmer switch was in the floorboard. 

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 1870
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2022, 06:57 PM »
But then I am from an era when a car's dimmer switch was in the floorboard.

Me too.
I really like my TS 55, but I do mostly sheet goods. I do have a TS75, but it comes out pretty rarely. I did just use it the other day to cut down a "butcher block" top that a customer brought to us from a local home center. They needed it ripped to width and 2 sections joined together for length. The TS75 is far better than trying to shove something like that over a tablesaw.
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Offline mino

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Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2022, 08:06 PM »
Concerning a Hybrid saw:
Festool makes a 110/ battery hybrid with their FTSC 125 and RTSC and DTSC 400 sanders.
...
The small sanderes are in the 200 Watts range or threabouts. For such low current it is possible to get a converter in roughly the same space as the battery AND the power loss (heat) it generates is also manageable.

A TSC 55 pulls around 1500 Watts at full load ... that is an order of magnitude more. An adapter to handle the current would have to be about 10x the size of the sander adapters ... 5x at a minimum.

And for what? Only to not have to replace batteries - batteries which one needs to replace every hour or so - i.e. a non issue *for a tracksaw* which sees intermittent use. With the upcomming 8Ah bats this would make even less practical sense.

I can see wanting this on a pneumatic hammer. Or on an angle grinder. I.e. tools which see prolonged use under heavy load. But for an intermittent use tool like a tracksaw it just is not worth it. IMO.
When The Machine has no brains, use yours.