Author Topic: Festool TS60 K ?  (Read 22350 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ToolCrazy

  • Posts: 11
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #60 on: September 22, 2022, 10:34 AM »
There's a new video that shows some of the upcoming TS60 K features, plus a few nifty things that the earlier videos don't show. The history of the Festo track saws and video of the new factory built to manufacture these are great too. It's in German, but the English sub-titles are very good:



Enjoy!
« Last Edit: September 22, 2022, 11:23 AM by ToolCrazy »

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Online GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 2210
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #61 on: September 22, 2022, 10:54 AM »
Here's the video from the previous post:

The full URL (youtube.com) and not the shortened URL (youtu.be) needs to be used in order for the video to load properly on the forum.
Inquiring Minds Want to Know

TS55, CT26, RO150, CXS, ETS 150/3, ETS EC 150/5, MFT/3, TS75, DF500, DTS400, OF1400, CT SYS

Offline ToolCrazy

  • Posts: 11
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #62 on: September 22, 2022, 11:23 AM »
Thanks! Learn something every day  [tongue]

Offline cptcolo

  • Posts: 1
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #63 on: October 03, 2022, 12:42 AM »
1500W brushless (vs 1200W brushed) so AT LEAST 25% more power. Brushless can be 10-15% more efficient so adding up it could have like 40% more power.
62mm depth (vs 50mm) so 25% more capacity
4.8kg (vs 4.3kg) so 12% heavier
6800 max rpm (vs 5800), 17% more
FSK rail compatibility
Anti-kickback like the TSC K
Improved depth adjustment(?)
~27% higher MSRP(?)

Seems like a pretty nice portable and powerful hybrid to me, when you can’t own/bring a kapex/multiple saws.

I have the corded TS55 and have long thought about getting the cordless version of the TS55. This thing looks awesome. If they make a cordless TS60, which I am sure they will... I am in for sure

Offline sirhc

  • Posts: 15
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #64 on: October 16, 2022, 03:12 AM »
I wonder why they updated the TS 55 with a thinner blade only last year and launch this new TS 60 soon after. Is here any room for a TS 55 next to a TS 60? Any special field/points the TS 55 could be more suitable to use compared to the TS 60 other than cost?

Online Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 2110
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #65 on: October 16, 2022, 08:02 AM »
My only real question is "Available in the US?"
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1010F
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75
Shaper Origin/Workstation/Plate
MFT clamps set
Installers set
Centrotech organizer set
Socket/Ratchet set

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1910
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #66 on: October 16, 2022, 09:55 AM »
I wonder why they updated the TS 55 with a thinner blade only last year and launch this new TS 60 soon after. Is here any room for a TS 55 next to a TS 60? Any special field/points the TS 55 could be more suitable to use compared to the TS 60 other than cost?

Sure. Lower weight, smaller size, lower price, riving knife.

Online Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 2110
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #67 on: October 16, 2022, 10:47 AM »
I'm still on the fence about the TS. The one I have is the older corded model and I have thought about upgrading to the newer thinner bladed one, but stuck between corded and cordless. I'm not already in the battery platform, so analysis paralysis has set in.
I can probably sell my old one to the boss, for general shop use, but I have so many blades that it doesn't thrill me to have to start over there.
That's why I'm thinking a TS60 would be good. Keep the one I have for the sheet goods that I use it for now and the TS60 for heavier cuts that don't require the bigboy TS75. That TS75 only comes out about once a month, but it sure is handy, when I need it.
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1010F
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75
Shaper Origin/Workstation/Plate
MFT clamps set
Installers set
Centrotech organizer set
Socket/Ratchet set

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 1652
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #68 on: October 16, 2022, 04:34 PM »
I have a corded TS55 simply from the perspective of "a brushed motor with a mains connector has fewer points of failure and should still be serviceable in 20-30 years to pass down to a child or other progeny".

I bought an HK55 and HKC55 from Recon back in 2020 (completely missing the "all sales are final" warning) and still need to sell off the HK55; the HKC55 is so much more convenient for what I use it for (dimensional lumber and demo work), and I think I only ever powered up the HK55 to make sure it worked.

If I got a TS60, I would probably hold out for a TSC60 but keep my TS55 for the "corded and brushed" reasons above.  It's definitely helped ward off temptation to get the TSC55K...

Offline woodferret

  • Posts: 225
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #69 on: October 16, 2022, 09:18 PM »
I wonder why they updated the TS 55 with a thinner blade only last year and launch this new TS 60 soon after. Is here any room for a TS 55 next to a TS 60? Any special field/points the TS 55 could be more suitable to use compared to the TS 60 other than cost?

Probably production reasons for the blades.  EOL stock is easier to model based on existing units and obselence rates.  They can do one hurrah push for the 2.2mm blades, warehouse them, and switch the tooling line for newer 168mm blade.

Offline mino

  • Posts: 1210
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #70 on: October 18, 2022, 12:35 AM »
I wonder why they updated the TS 55 with a thinner blade only last year and launch this new TS 60 soon after. Is here any room for a TS 55 next to a TS 60? Any special field/points the TS 55 could be more suitable to use compared to the TS 60 other than cost?

Probably production reasons for the blades.  EOL stock is easier to model based on existing units and obselence rates.  They can do one hurrah push for the 2.2mm blades, warehouse them, and switch the tooling line for newer 168mm blade.
There is definitely the room for a light&nimble TS55 to go along a more heavy-duty TS60.

I would be more concerned for the TS75. IMO the only thing really keeping it around is the lack of a 110V HK85 version which will likely have some reason - like the inability to fit a 20A@110V motor into the chassis.
When The Machine has no brains, use yours.

Offline jafo09

  • Posts: 1
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #71 on: October 20, 2022, 06:19 PM »
hi all, just fyi, i received a note from Festool indicating they won't be bringing it to the NorAm market. [crying]

Here's the exact wording:

Thank you for contacting Festool. The TS60 is not available for purchase in the North American Market. Festool is a German company with world-wide distribution, not all tools and accessories are available in every market. The TS60 is not available in this market and at this time Festool has not announced any future plans to bring this tool to market.

Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #72 on: October 21, 2022, 01:33 AM »
hi all, just fyi, i received a note from Festool indicating they won't be bringing it to the NorAm market. [crying]

Here's the exact wording:

Thank you for contacting Festool. The TS60 is not available for purchase in the North American Market. Festool is a German company with world-wide distribution, not all tools and accessories are available in every market. The TS60 is not available in this market and at this time Festool has not announced any future plans to bring this tool to market.

Fine with me, but If they would only get the TS-75 to market things would sure be nice. Some of us don't want to have both and "Pull out the big boy once a month." Some of us would rather have one saw that does everything thick and thin. I get that it's sort of the idea behind the TS 60, but even it is not big enough, and I don't care about the electronics, I want a riving knife like the TS-75 has.

Offline woodbutcherbower

  • Posts: 539
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #73 on: October 21, 2022, 01:59 AM »
hi all, just fyi, i received a note from Festool indicating they won't be bringing it to the NorAm market. [crying]

Here's the exact wording:

Thank you for contacting Festool. The TS60 is not available for purchase in the North American Market. Festool is a German company with world-wide distribution, not all tools and accessories are available in every market. The TS60 is not available in this market and at this time Festool has not announced any future plans to bring this tool to market.

Surely not - that would be insanity. The UK website currently only lists the 230v version, whereas all of the other tools are listed in both 230v and 110v - because 110v is mandatory on construction sites over here. The lack of a 110v version would not only eliminate a potentially vast number of NA sales, but would also make it a non-starter for the thousands of guys over here doing site work. It must be in the pipeline somewhere.

Mustn’t it?  [unsure]

Offline simnick

  • Posts: 66
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #74 on: October 21, 2022, 02:14 AM »
I'm disappointed to hear they might not bring this to the NA market. It seemed to check all the boxes I might need in a saw (I don't want cordless, I normally work in my shop).

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1910
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #75 on: October 21, 2022, 05:15 AM »
It's what you get when you persist in using something (110V) unseen in the other 95% of the world. And lots of universal 100-240V stuff could have been made slightly cheaper if it was only 230

So you use split-phase 110V on UK building sites. Has it saved any lives? And how many extra died because they used the wrong tool because the right tool wasn't available in 110V?

Offline petar73

  • Posts: 39
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #76 on: October 21, 2022, 06:51 AM »
I would rather use cordless than 110v and transformer on site.

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 1652
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #77 on: October 21, 2022, 09:46 AM »
"Festool has not announced any future plans to bring this tool to market" =/= (or !=, or ≠) "Festool has no plans to bring this tool to market."

Since they don't officially have a 110v version of this tool yet, there is no benefit to announcing plans to "some day" release one, especially for a company like Festool with such a small market share in North America.

Offline woodbutcherbower

  • Posts: 539
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #78 on: October 21, 2022, 12:33 PM »
It's what you get when you persist in using something (110V) unseen in the other 95% of the world.

Maybe so - but 380 million people in the US and Canada isn’t exactly a tiny, minority marketplace. I really hope there will be a 110v version for our friends over the pond.

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1910
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #79 on: October 21, 2022, 03:10 PM »
It's what you get when you persist in using something (110V) unseen in the other 95% of the world.

Maybe so - but 380 million people in the US and Canada isn’t exactly a tiny, minority marketplace. I really hope there will be a 110v version for our friends over the pond.

For a European company that is definitely a minority of the market.

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1938
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #80 on: October 21, 2022, 05:04 PM »
If they ever do come out with a tsc60 there would be little reason not to bring it to NA. With the market penetration cordless tools are making it may not ever make sense to do a 110v version.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline woodbutcherbower

  • Posts: 539
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #81 on: October 21, 2022, 05:13 PM »
For a European company that is definitely a minority of the market.

Really?

Europe has a population of around 750 million. The population of NA is more than half of that. 51% is an awfully big 'minority'.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 10184
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #82 on: October 21, 2022, 05:24 PM »
According to Wiki, there are 592 million people in NA.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America

That seems like a pretty large opportunity.   [blink]

Online Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 2110
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #83 on: October 21, 2022, 06:17 PM »
Especially when you factor in the job-site guys in the UK, they are stuck using 110v too.
The plugs may not be the same, but the motors can't be that much different?
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1010F
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75
Shaper Origin/Workstation/Plate
MFT clamps set
Installers set
Centrotech organizer set
Socket/Ratchet set

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1910
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #84 on: October 21, 2022, 08:10 PM »
For a European company that is definitely a minority of the market.

Really?

Europe has a population of around 750 million. The population of NA is more than half of that. 51% is an awfully big 'minority'.

Yes really. Note I specifically said 'European company'. My guesstimate is that Festool has a lower market share in the USA anyway.

Besides that... if you are counting population; -even excluding Europe- people living in 110V area are a small minority.

Online Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 2110
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #85 on: October 22, 2022, 07:07 AM »
The rep that put on the "Festool Experience" told me that Festool has less than 1000 dealers in the US market.
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1010F
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75
Shaper Origin/Workstation/Plate
MFT clamps set
Installers set
Centrotech organizer set
Socket/Ratchet set

Offline woodbutcherbower

  • Posts: 539
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #86 on: November 01, 2022, 07:05 PM »
My new pre-ordered TS60 shipped and arrived a few days ago. It's a truly lovely saw with some great features - and my reasons for purchasing it are explained earlier in the thread. But here's the thing - I'm a professional woodworker, working in an environment where every cent matters. My faithful old TS55 has been wearing aftermarket blades since forever, to the extent that I now have around 20 of them in a constant cycle of being used or being resharpened. Offshore manufacturing has meant that I can buy a brand-new 48T blade for $15 = only $3 more than it costs me to get an old one resharpened - but I continue to take the latter option because I care about the planet and its finite resources. Throwing blunt sawblades in the trash isn't an option for me, and these offshore blades perform identically to OEM ones. There's absolutely zero difference, so I'll continue to do the right thing morally and environmentally.

But since the TS60 is a new machine, there are no 168mm x 20mm x 1.8mm blades available for it just yet, apart from OEM ones - and Festool are charging $115 a pop. I totally get that they're a premium manufacturer etc etc etc etc ...... but they're charging that price because right now - they can. It's 100% the power tool equivalent of the inkjet printer scam, where you can go buy a beautiful new fully-loaded printer for $99, but then be forced to pay $49 every time you need new ink cartridges. The printer software knows when you try and use an aftermarket or refilled cartridge, and it won't allow you to print. The level and scale of the work I do means that I can wear out the teeth on a blade in a week.

So my beautiful new 168mm saw will stay in its loony-tunes-sized Systainer 3 until it's actually needed once in a blue moon for a job like the one I highlighted earlier in the thread. My TS55 will continue as the go-to daily saw because commercially - I can't justify any other route.

What a terrible shame.



« Last Edit: November 01, 2022, 07:16 PM by woodbutcherbower »

Offline mino

  • Posts: 1210
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #87 on: November 02, 2022, 08:32 AM »
..snip..
But since the TS60 is a new machine, there are no 168mm x 20mm x 1.8mm blades available for it just yet, apart from OEM ones - and Festool are charging $115 a pop. I totally get that they're a premium manufacturer etc etc etc etc ...... but they're charging that price because right now - they can. It's 100% the power tool equivalent of the inkjet printer scam, where you can go buy a beautiful new fully-loaded printer for $99, but then be forced to pay $49 every time you need new ink cartridges.
..snip..
Sorry. You are wrong here.

Festool is chargin what they are charging because IT COSTS THEM about as much to (have) manufactured these blades /plus R&D plus shipping etc./.

Last I remember these were Leitz-made. Or some other same-level maker. Basically the best quality stuff one can get.

And no, $20 blades in 2.2/1.6 mm are not "the same" as 1.8/1.2. There is a world of difference there. If you had the equipment to test them, you will find out pretty fast. Starting with the disc steel material, ending with blade geometry precision (more so after a lot of use).

This is no "defense" of Festool being cheap. They are expensive, Leitz-expensive. Just more available.

I also buy blades from a local blade maker. And guess what ? This is a reputable company (like 100+yrs old) so they DO NOT make 1.8/1.2mm blades. Their normal blades are 2.8/1.8 or 2.5/1.8 and they have a special "Festool" range at 2.2/1.6, which suits me. That is about it.

Their blades would be "offshore" to you, but still is a traditional company so $40 ($30 sans taxes) for a 160mm 2.2/1.6 blade it is. No way they can makde those blades $20 (with taxes) at the same quality. Compared to the Makita blades I made a mistake to buy twice, they are like a Mercedes to a Daewoo car.

The demand is there for sure - they actually started to stock the CMT 1.7/1.1 mm blades to cover the thin-blades demand on their eshop. I got one of those for a tracksaw without a riving knife. Bad idea. That $40 thin blade is unusable for anything but thin plywood. It just wobbles too much in non-homogenous material.


So I asked for thinner blades /from them/ and got told this:
"We would need special steel for the thin-disc blades. Also neew fancy equipment to handle such steel at our plant." And guess what ? They do not have such equipment - and do not plan to as their bread and butter is in industrial blades. This means they could not make blades with the required behavior so they rather not make them.


Above aside, I see no reason why the TS60 K could not handle the 160mm 2.2/1.6 mm blades from the older TS55 series. The arbor is the same and there is no riving knife. So safety is not /directly/ affected. The 2.2/1.6 blade is a little heavier, but has a lower diameter, so the forces the saw would face are mostly equivalent.

Putting my math hat on:
(1.6*160^3)/(1.2*168^3) = 1.152 => about 15% more rotational momentum from a 160/1.6mm blade versus a 168/1.2mm blade. This sounds within sensible limits as far as shaft loads go.


Would me similar like me (ab)using a 350/3.2 mm (disc) Leitz industrial blade (€500 a pop!) in my Protool CSP 145E which officially takes a 380/2.6 mm (disc) ripping blade only.
When The Machine has no brains, use yours.

Offline guybo

  • Posts: 452
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #88 on: November 02, 2022, 08:55 AM »
Hi, the mafell kss50 uses that blade also this place makes themhttps://proformtooling.co.uk/index.php/product/stehle-saw-blades-to-fit-mafell-kss50-machines/

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1910
Re: Festool TS60 K ?
« Reply #89 on: November 02, 2022, 01:51 PM »
Putting my math hat on:
(1.6*160^3)/(1.2*168^3) = 1.152 => about 15% more rotational momentum from a 160/1.6mm blade versus a 168/1.2mm blade. This sounds within sensible limits as far as shaft loads go.

Weight distribution is not homogeneous and with the thinner blade probably relatively more at the edge. So for the rotational momentum the smaller blade is easier.