Is it just me - I don’t get it a $1K cutting table.

Alright I used Eurekazone systems for years (RIP) and have almost completely converted to FT. One of the last products they released was a “Pyramid” which can accept a bench dog, thus, fit on an MFT style table and expendable 1x’s used on the top to support the wood. I don’t have a pic of it on my newer MFT style slab set up but here it is on a previous table:




I’m sure there are many other options too.


Mike

Good point about handling sheets.
There are other ways to solve that problem as well.  I get creative when I have those 4'x8'x3/4" sheets of BB... those suckers are heavy.

One thing I like to do, if I plan things right, is to pull the sheet straight out of the bed of my truck onto my 2 MFT's.
Then I can break the sheet down and lean the pieces up.  Move on to the next sheet, etc.  Then switch over to crosscuts.

Also, another good cutting surface that cost $30 is the 1" foam insulation.  Lay it on the floor, sawhorses with cross support.

For about 30 seconds I seriously thought about the STM.  There are a lot of pluses.
However, for as much time as I spend breaking down full sheets I can easily make do with plenty of other solutions.

@Mike Goetzke If just processing sheets, on a limited basis, yeah go for the Lee Valley sheet goods supporting blocks that stow in a nifty travel bag. Provides the exact same limited support functionality for dust control as the STM 1800. Where the STM 1800 starts to make sense is for people like @tjbnwi who go through hundreds of sheets a month on some jobs. Although I suspect shops that handle such a large quantity already have a system in place that works nicely for them. I see the STM 1800 as being for one man shops that do high enough volume to justify it but are space constrained and can't have a permanent sheet processing station.

This product is on the  list of "That's cool, I'd love to own one, but I'm not working on projects enough to justify it." At my house I have to break a sheet down in the garage before carrying parts down to the basement. I haven't quite figured out what system I want to adopt yet but I suspect it's going to be the Lee Valley sacrificial supports, Track Tubes, and plastic sawhorses from DeWalt. The downside is I'll need to carry my Flex vac, parallel guides, track saw upstairs and set it all up. But I'd have to do that regardless of whatever cutting table I use.

For lifting sheet goods I recall @Grev (TrackTubesGuy) came up with a nifty pivoting support he adapted to a step stool that lifted the sheets onto his cutting station.

@DynaGlide,

This should help with the moving of the sheets.(The Crazy Horse)





Tom

@tjbnwi Tom I'm too young for that contraption  Maybe in another 10 years.

@DynaGlide,
This should help with the moving of the sheets.(The Crazy Horse)
Tom

@tjbnwi   Any idea what happened to this?  Last mention was about a year ago.

Thanks, Mike A.

Since the implied question in the OP is along the lines of: "Why would someone pay $1k for this?", I'll add my opinion.

First, your photo includes more than just the standoffs and you need to include those costs to make an honest comparison.
If you were using the standoffs on the floor, you'd still need to include the cost of the wood. You could argue that they were just scrap anyway so didn't cost you anything but at some point you probably paid something for them so they have value.

For me, the comparison is to my current system, which is a 4x8 Bora Centipede with a 4x8 sheet of foam on top. It cost me about $200 and is far from perfect. The foam tends to slide when I'm trying to get full sheets on it and if I'm doing lengthwise cuts I have to jury rig support for my parallel guides. My shop is small so I can't afford the space of most other solutions.

To me, the frustration with this system is probably worth spending an extra $800. If it saves me even one minor back injury from trying to man handle a full sheet by myself, it's way more than paid for itself.

Also, don't forget that in Europe they use more than just 2400 x 1200 (8 x 4) sheets - 2700, 3100, 3600 are all common lengths, as well as 1800 - 2100 wide.

I'd be more tempted to drop the $1k if it was a 6 month wait to get it.  Just don't have that kind of patience.
Same reason why the only WP OneTime tools I have are ones my wife surprised me with... lol

Quote from: tjbnwi on February 26, 2020, 09:09 AM

@DynaGlide,
This should help with the moving of the sheets.(The Crazy Horse)
Tom

@tjbnwi   Any idea what happened to this?  Last mention was about a year ago.

Thanks, Mike A.

No clue, I had considered one, never purchased one.

tom

I don't think the draw for this product is the cutting table. Plenty of creative DIY and commercial, cheap solutions to handling a sheet for cutting at a comfortable height. It's the whole package of being able to lift a sheet, move the sheet, and cut the sheet on demand as needed.

When I got into working on motorcycles as a hobby there are lot of people that get and modify cheap Craftsman lifts for $100. I spent 4x that on a real beast of a unit that I can climb up on the bike when it's up in the air and it won't budge. I've done it. And I've gotten my moneys worth out of it several times over with all of the work I've done that I otherwise wouldn't have been able to.

Back to the STM 1800. The question it boils down to is does it enable you to do something you otherwise wouldn't be able to? If the answer is yes then I guess you know what to do. Personally the only thing this potentially offers is the sheet lifting. Here in the US we max out at 4x8 unless it's something special we're working on. If you have the dedicated space there are lots of creative pivoting sheet supports DIY that will lift the sheet up to your cutting table. If you don't have a dedicated space there are additionally ideas such as mentioned above. I like the functionality of this product but at $995 I can't imagine investing in it at this point in time. Maybe I'll snag one off Craigslist in 10 years at half price 

Edit: I'm strongly considering this product from Rockler and adding an MFT style top to it to keep in the garage: https://www.rockler.com/rockler-material-mate-panel-cart-and-shop-stand

Load the sheet, pivot it onto my knock down cutting area, wheel it around for processing and have a place to set the saw, clamps, parallel guides, guide rail squares, etc. The top area maxes at 36"x30" according to their literature so you could do the rips on the cutting table, move pieces over and crosscut on the MFT top. Wheel it around so the crosscut pieces are supported by the ripping station using Lee Valley etc.

I don't think the draw for this product is the cutting table. Plenty of creative DIY and commercial, cheap solutions to handling a sheet for cutting at a comfortable height. It's the whole package of being able to lift a sheet, move the sheet, and cut the sheet on demand as needed.

When I got into working on motorcycles as a hobby there are lot of people that get and modify cheap Craftsman lifts for $100. I spent 4x that on a real beast of a unit that I can climb up on the bike when it's up in the air and it won't budge. I've done it. And I've gotten my moneys worth out of it several times over with all of the work I've done that I otherwise wouldn't have been able to.

Back to the STM 1800. The question it boils down to is does it enable you to do something you otherwise wouldn't be able to? If the answer is yes then I guess you know what to do. Personally the only thing this potentially offers is the sheet lifting. Here in the US we max out at 4x8 unless it's something special we're working on. If you have the dedicated space there are lots of creative pivoting sheet supports DIY that will lift the sheet up to your cutting table. If you don't have a dedicated space there are additionally ideas such as mentioned above. I like the functionality of this product but at $995 I can't imagine investing in it at this point in time. Maybe I'll snag one off Craigslist in 10 years at half price 

Edit: I'm strongly considering this product from Rockler and adding an MFT style top to it to keep in the garage: https://www.rockler.com/rockler-material-mate-panel-cart-and-shop-stand

Load the sheet, pivot it onto my knock down cutting area, wheel it around for processing and have a place to set the saw, clamps, parallel guides, guide rail squares, etc. The top area maxes at 36"x30" according to their literature so you could do the rips on the cutting table, move pieces over and crosscut on the MFT top. Wheel it around so the crosscut pieces are supported by the ripping station using Lee Valley etc.

One other point I left out is that the height of it is adjustable. To me it means in can roll it out to my truck, slide a sheet of ply /timber on to it and roll it into the shop and adj the height to cutting level cut the ply and slid the peices onto the MFT for cross cutting.

When I was young in my early 50s no problem picking up sheets of 4 x 8 ply, now Im mid 60s im needing some help to take the ply from the truck to the shop and set on a MFT for ripping.

Im thinking this will make my life alot easier and not ave to wait for a neighbor, one of my kids to get home from work or the wife to help muscle the ply from truck to shop one sheet at a time.

Oh I did ax Don Ware to do a video review on it. He said he doesnt have one but will ax te Fesool Rep to see if he could get one and do a functional review of it.

For those that dont know Don, He is one of the most knowledgeable people I know on Festools. go to his you tube channel and check out his videos, very thorough reviews especially on the cyclone.

Him being a both a custom high end carpenter and now working at Anderson selling festools, He knows what our needs are and puts the tools through the paces.

Im looking fwd to his video. Im sure he'll post it here i the FOG when hes done. Plus Don will answer and demo any questions that that he doesnt cover in his original demo. Again look at his cyclone reviews.

One other point I left out is that the height of it is adjustable. To me it means in can roll it out to my truck, slide a sheet of ply /timber on to it and roll it into the shop and adj the height to cutting level cut the ply and slid the peices onto the MFT for cross cutting.

This is the part I can't wrap my head around.  It doesn't look like it would be easy to adjust the height with a sheet on top.  Getting down on the ground to lift each foot one at a time for every sheet seems like more work then lifting the sheet onto the table.  You might as well just work with the table in the lower position.   

The other problem (for me) is my van is too low to easily slide a sheet onto the table even at it's lowest setting.  The process would be: unlock wheels, move table, lock wheels, lift sheet onto edge of table, climb into back of van, lift sheet to table height and slide onto table, unlock wheels, move table, lock wheels again, start cutting.  Repeat 20 times

I've been thinking of getting something like the Felder FAT 300 which can be easily raised and lowered.  If it's lower then my truck I wouldn't even have to lock the wheels, I can just pull the sheet onto the table.  Move the table to my cutting table, raise it up, slide the sheet onto the higher cutting table. 

The STM would be great if all your sheets are leaning against a wall.  It's getting the sheets from out of the truck and into the shop that seems like a problem to me without a helper.

This thing is so versatile and when stored in my 2 car garage takes up 0 space as it will go under something. I am always in short supply of large horizontal surfaces and this will do nicely when I need it. When I first saw the TS55 many years ago a big ole light bulb went off in my head. Back then it was a circular saw and straight edge or use a table saw. Same thing happened when I saw the STM, luckily i didnt see it 6 months ago but a week ago so didn't have to suffer through the wait  . One of the few other times something like this happened is when I was introduced to object oriented programming, lol.

From the standpoint of a professional woodworker,  I cut my ply at my shop with a sliding panel saw, I will use this table as a multi-use table on the field, sometimes to cut, sometimes to transport wood countertops, help with the process of scribing big panels/counters, general work table, a workbench to work on doors and drawers, sometimes as a cutting table, in short, it is worth it for me.
When I started my business in my garage I made a cutting table (torsion box) that I mounted on a swivel system to easy load sheet goods, that worked fine so if you are a weekend woodworker, it is probably not worth spending $1,000 on this table, but then again, I have seen garage shops that have a 40k CNC that gets used once a month.

Hi Folks,
   Here's another perspective on the STM 1800. Surely it is possible to create something similar oneself for possibly less money. That approach begs the question, what is your time worth? Being a Festool product, I know that I am paying a premium for the engineering that went into the design and the implementation being functional and well executed. Luckily, we are getting one of these at our store for demo purposes and hopefully I can provide a review at some point. At the end of the day, the individual or business customer decides whether a particular tool or product provides the RoI that justifies the investment. When you buy this, or any, Festool product, you know that you can take it out of the box, set it up and it should work as advertised. If it does not meet your satisfaction, returns are not a challenge. BTW, the adjustable height is a huge win for me personally, because I am a bit "vertically challenged".

Overpriced? Yes
Time saver? Yes
Can I make something similar? Yes

If you answer yes to #3 then work up a bill of materials to see how much time it will cost to get something that is equal to or better than the STM.

I do realize this is out of reach for some people and the idea of a $1000 cutting table is absurd, but it is what it is and at least they offered a solution to a problem.