Author Topic: Festool Precisio saws (Read 9669 times)

shed9 · « **on:** January 17, 2021, 08:07 AM »

Been away from the forum for a bit but would appreciate some advice.

I know the TKS versions are out now but are there any Precisio saw users out there who can offer some feedback?

I have started to finally finish the work needed in my house. It's going to be a fair amount of fit out and general carpentry. It's a woollen mill so an old building and large space. I've done most of the work in the house but need to fit a new kitchen, bathroom and finish those aspects which have just been left. I'm looking for a decent portable table saw but something which has use beyond this work phase (probably >12 months). I already have a table saw (Hammer K3 winner) but that's in the workshop and at the other end of the garden. I don't want to be carrying work back and forth.
I contemplated a Dewalt or Makita small site saw but before I push the button I'm giving the Precision CS70 a look over. Not sure if this is overkill for kitchen and bathroom builds but then it would certainly find a home in my workshop after the build itself in cutting finer materials.

Anyone used one for fit out? Is this an expensive and bad idea or are there aspects to this that sway the argument towards one?

Any advice appreciated.

Alex · « **Reply #1 on:** January 17, 2021, 09:32 AM »

I have the CS70 and I use it for everything that needs to be cut, no matter where. I mean, when it fits, sheet goods are done with the TS55. I am renovating my house right now and boy, does the CS70 come in handy. I would not want to be without it.

FestitaMakool · « **Reply #2 on:** January 17, 2021, 10:03 AM »

It depends on how much capacity you need in a portable saw.
Since you have a very nice and capable cabinet saw not far away, if you’d be bothered to carry the thickest pieces to this saw, a CS 50 is VERY portable and capable to to the rest.A CS 70 as Alex is pleased with is a very good choice too. I think you will appreciate the pull function for your kind of application. A CS 70 is considerably heavier, and more comparable to table saws from ie Bosch and Makita in weight. But, the CS 70 is more manageable to carry than those, and it has pull saw functionality, which is very nice. It’s so much more than a rip saw.

I have a CS 50 with all the bells and whistles. I’m very pleased with it. (I have a larger 70mm capacity table saw too, but it’s stationary)
Me included; most owners of the Precisios will not part with theirs. That includes carpenters and fitters I have met, who has the one or other of the CS 50/70.

The TKS has been on the market a while, but I don’t think sales has gone through the roof. Weight and size is an issue, and it’s missing the pull saw function. (Which is a safety feature in itself)

I would study the capacity of the two Precisios, including weight if that matters to see if one of those will fit you. You might end up having it around as a second saw ever after redoing your house.

shed9 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 17, 2021, 10:10 AM »

Thank you both, very much appreciated. I must be honest that I didn't actually know the CS saws had the pull feature and that makes a lot of sense to me.

The capacity I need from a saw would be met by either saws really, the 50 and the 70, I'd just be more tempted to get the slightly larger capacity in the 70. I won't be moving the saw around too much so a little extra weight but still being portable is still acceptable for me.

Coen · « **Reply #4 on:** January 17, 2021, 10:18 AM »

Part of the attractiveness of the CS50 is that it shares accessories with CMS. But the latter not longer available...

The parallel fence is garbage. $700 DeWalt saw includes superior parallel fence.

Peter Parfitt · « **Reply #5 on:** January 17, 2021, 10:18 AM »

I have had a lot of questions from my various woodworking contacts about the Precisio and it is my ambition to get one at some point. I would have got one by now but my house move, and in particular the creation of a new workshop, has drained my resources somewhat.

If it helps the OP I have read a fair bit about the CS70 and watched a number of videos as well. I am convinced of its capabilities and have no doubt whatsoever that it will be well made. The accessories that come with the "Set" version (574784) provides the user with absolutely every bit of functionality that could be expected of a saw like this.

I have seen the saw in action a long time ago and it was either at Bunny's Bolts, the D&M Show or at at Festool Road Show.

Peter

shed9 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 17, 2021, 10:27 AM »

I never knew of the CMS compatibility but then they are like hence teeth right now, they only really come up on auction sites and often in poor condition. I did think of a CMS-GE and TS plate but again no one sells them anymore. It is worth knowing though if the right deal comes along so the info is appreciated.

Peter, not sure I would stretch to the full CS70 kit myself but would probably add a rip fence to the saw in the initial purchase. If I end up getting one, happy to field any queries you have yourself prior to purchase.

Coen when you mention parallel fence do you mean the additional rip fence?

FestitaMakool · « **Reply #7 on:** January 17, 2021, 10:41 AM »

Bear in mind, you could make a simple (or might already have something?) cabinet on wheels to roll the saw around. Mine is a full set, but placed on top of a cabinet on wheels, to the same 900mm “Festool” height. It fits a dust collector, shelves, a small compartment all connected to accessories I use with the saw.

Some think the additional “rip fence” LA CS 70/LA CS 50/CMS is poor, I do not. The included “mitre fence” is ok enough, but I only use it on the sliding table (Which is the same as the item that the TKS uses)
Yes, the CS 50 compatible with the CMS accessories. And the accessories for the CMS are available, just not the modules or the VL or GE table. Everything else is available.

Coen · « **Reply #8 on:** January 17, 2021, 11:33 AM »

Quote from: shed9 on January 17, 2021, 10:27 AM

Coen when you mention parallel fence do you mean the additional rip fence?

574796
https://www.festool.nl/accessoires/574796---la-cs-50cms

There is no way it moves parallel to the blade... while Dewalt has a two-sided rack and pinion fence that actually does stay parallel to the saw when moving it... included with the base saw, that is already half as expensive. But I tend to overstate the negatives I know... so YMMV. The miter gauge of the Dewalt is garbage, but the slop can be fixed somewhat or easily replaced by one of Incra.

Alex · « **Reply #9 on:** January 17, 2021, 11:34 AM »

Quote from: FestitaMakool on January 17, 2021, 10:41 AM

Bear in mind, you could make a simple (or might already have something?) cabinet on wheels to roll the saw around. Mine is a full set, but placed on top of a cabinet on wheels,

That only works when you have a flat floor like in a shop. Doesn't work in and around the house.

But I agree the CS50 sure is a lot more portable than the CS70. I can move my CS70 with ease on an even floor, but I don't like to carry it up the stairs one bit.

Downside is, it is just so small.

Quote from: Peter Parfitt on January 17, 2021, 10:18 AM

I have had a lot of questions from my various woodworking contacts about the Precisio and it is my ambition to get one at some point. I would have got one by now but my house move, and in particular the creation of a new workshop, has drained my resources somewhat.

Peter, whenever you come bicycling again in Holland you're welcome to play around with mine as long as you want.

Quote from: shed9 on January 17, 2021, 10:27 AM

Coen when you mention parallel fence do you mean the additional rip fence?

Probably this one, the CS70 LA as opposed to the second one with the degrees.

I'm not fond of it, I wouldn't say it is garbage, but it isn't very user friendly because front and back don't automatically align very well and you have to make sure manually. And the fine adjustment makes it difficult to move, so I took it out.

But I like the other, standard one very much. I use it always, unless I absolutely have to use the other one because the piece is too big, like the plinth in the picture. That didn't work with the smaller fence.

Coen · « **Reply #10 on:** January 17, 2021, 11:38 AM »

Quote from: Alex on January 17, 2021, 11:34 AM

Probably this one, the CS70 LA as opposed to the second one with the degrees.

(Attachment Link) (Attachment Link)

I'm not fond of it, I wouldn't say it is garbage, but it isn't very user friendly because front and back don't automatically align very well and you have to make sure manually. And the fine adjustment makes it difficult to move, so I took it out.

But I like the other, standard one very much. I use it always, unless I absolutely have to use the other one because the piece is too big, like the plinth in the picture. That didn't work with the smaller fence.

Exactly. I never even bought it after seeing it fail in the store...

Sometimes I use the standard one from the MFT on the CS50 with a separately sold 60cm alu piece (that is included with the CS 50 LA).

Peter Parfitt · « **Reply #11 on:** January 17, 2021, 11:59 AM »

Quote from: Alex on January 17, 2021, 11:34 AM

Quote from: Peter Parfitt on January 17, 2021, 10:18 AM
I have had a lot of questions from my various woodworking contacts about the Precisio and it is my ambition to get one at some point. I would have got one by now but my house move, and in particular the creation of a new workshop, has drained my resources somewhat.

Peter, whenever you come bicycling again in Holland you're welcome to play around with mine as long as you want.

Hi Alex,

A very kind offer. We usually visit your lovely country twice a year but did not manage it at all in 2020. We are hoping to be able (or allowed) to come over later this year. We had to sell the Hymer prior to moving so we will be in B&B rather than on camp sites - that will seem very strange after 12 years of roaming as we pleased.

Cheers.

Peter

shed9 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 18, 2021, 08:42 AM »

Thanks again for the above replies.

Can I ask really dumb question for the UK member? Why is the 110V version so much cheaper than the 240V option? Is there a slight difference in power like the TS55 saws with differing voltages?

Milvus · « **Reply #13 on:** January 18, 2021, 09:44 AM »

Hi,

I have a CS70 and I use it for everything. I don't have room enough to fit a cabinet saw in my diyer shop. I'm quite happy with it, it is powerful enough and it honours its name "precisio".

It can substitute a miter saw to some extent. Just not that confortable to use.

Regarding the rip fence, it is not garbage, but for a saw this price it could slide smoother. Mine sits parallel to the blade as long as I tighten front knob first and rear lever after that. Fine adjustment works ok, but I'll check what Alex said about removing it, just in case it makes the fence move smoothly. Thanks Alex.

The lack of miter slot makes it difficult to use sledges. The sliding table mitigates this, but it is hard to tune to be squared to the blade, but it can be made.

And last, don't expect the degree of dust collection other Festool tools show. Don't get me wrong, it is not bad, but it is not excellent.

Kind Regards.

Antonio.

Peter Parfitt · « **Reply #14 on:** January 18, 2021, 10:24 AM »

Quote from: shed9 on January 18, 2021, 08:42 AM

Thanks again for the above replies.

Can I ask really dumb question for the UK member? Why is the 110V version so much cheaper than the 240V option? Is there a slight difference in power like the TS55 saws with differing voltages?

For the CS50 the 110v and 240v options are the same at both the entry level and the "set" level.

For the CS70 there is a diffrence beyween the 110v and 240v at both entry and "set" level of about £250.

As far as I can see from the specifications the kit included is the same when comparing 110v to 240v machines and therefore I can only guess that it is the motor and possible the NVR arrangement for the more powerful CS70 version which leads to the price variation.

Peter

Alex · « **Reply #15 on:** January 18, 2021, 12:46 PM »

I don't see why the motor/electronics would make such a difference in price between 110 and 240.

My guess is it is a marketing decision because the 110v models they made don't sell enough and they want to get rid of their stock.

shed9 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 18, 2021, 01:10 PM »

Quote from: Alex on January 18, 2021, 12:46 PM

I don't see why the motor/electronics would make such a difference in price between 110 and 240.

My guess is it is a marketing decision because the 110v models they made don't sell enough and they want to get rid of their stock.

Same here, I don't see the difference, the different voltages don't mean different power, the 110 will (in theory) be the same wattage.

Alex · « **Reply #17 on:** January 18, 2021, 03:00 PM »

Quote from: shed9 on January 18, 2021, 01:10 PM

Same here, I don't see the difference, the different voltages don't mean different power, the 110 will (in theory) be the same wattage.

Well, some things need to be different, with only half the voltage, 110 volt needs double the amps to achieve the same wattage, and amps is what makes electrical wires become hot and melt. But it shouldn't lead to such a huge price difference.

Packard · « **Reply #18 on:** January 18, 2021, 03:43 PM »

I was not familiar with this saw. I went online to see videos. There is almost nothing showing it in use; but plenty showing Festool's assembly instructions.

One thing I did notice is that it is supplied with a plastic push stick. I am quite opposed to plastic push sticks. I had one catch on the moving blade, bend, store energy and explode, with shards of plastic cutting my hand and requiring a hospital visit.

The same push stick made from wood is perfectly safe. I would much prefer that they provide a push stick handle that accepts MDF push ends. It would be much safer.

usernumber1 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 18, 2021, 04:18 PM »

gotta love festool. they have a page for carpentry canada but every one of the product pages is broken

https://www.festoolcanada.com/company/segments/carpentry

so just sawstop for us?

Peter Parfitt · « **Reply #20 on:** January 18, 2021, 04:25 PM »

Quote from: Packard on January 18, 2021, 03:43 PM

I was not familiar with this saw. I went online to see videos. There is almost nothing showing it in use; but plenty showing Festool's assembly instructions.

I have had loads of people saying the same thing and hope, one day, to change that.

Peter

shed9 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 18, 2021, 05:48 PM »

Quote from: Peter Parfitt on January 18, 2021, 04:25 PM

Quote from: Packard on January 18, 2021, 03:43 PM
I was not familiar with this saw. I went online to see videos. There is almost nothing showing it in use; but plenty showing Festool's assembly instructions.

I have had loads of people saying the same thing and hope, one day, to change that.

Peter

Same here, hard to find info beyond how to put it together. Must admit I'm on the cusp of buying one but will probably go for the 110V as I have it my home and my workshop so not a problem for me and quite a lot cheaper.

Coen · « **Reply #22 on:** January 18, 2021, 06:05 PM »

Why do you have 110V at your home? Isn't the UK 230-GND? Do you have splitphase 115?

FestitaMakool · « **Reply #23 on:** January 18, 2021, 06:07 PM »

Woodspezi is one of the few who has a good video about the CS 50.
He also did an unboxing. He’s now a TKS owner, but recently I saw his CS 50 alongside the TKS, wonder if he kept it.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=SXHnpbek328&feature=share

Unboxing:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=uDjPaU3rh3g&feature=share

If you let me know what you’re looking for I can see if I can help.

shed9 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 19, 2021, 05:25 AM »

Quote from: Coen on January 18, 2021, 06:05 PM

Why do you have 110V at your home? Isn't the UK 230-GND? Do you have splitphase 115?

The standard UK domestic mains is indeed 230V (no split phase) but I have several transformers around the house for tools just out of necessity. I also have it permanently wired into my workshop, again to use 110V tools if need be. Sometimes you just can't get hold of the 230V version tool so I started using dual voltages and it's worked out for me. It also allows me to save a bit when the likes of Festool dealers mark down their 110V stock.

shed9 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 19, 2021, 06:26 AM »

Quote from: FestitaMakool on January 18, 2021, 06:07 PM

Woodspezi is one of the few who has a good video about the CS 50.
He also did an unboxing. He’s now a TKS owner, but recently I saw his CS 50 alongside the TKS, wonder if he kept it.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=SXHnpbek328&feature=share

Unboxing:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=uDjPaU3rh3g&feature=share

If you let me know what you’re looking for I can see if I can help.

Thanks for this, at least the subtitles work a little better on these than other vids. Interesting if he has kept both the TKS and the CS, I'd be interested why if that is the case. The TKS80 and the CS70 (in 240v) are the same price with most vendors here in the UK but the push pull option on the CS seems a more appealing aspect on the CS for me.

FestitaMakool · « **Reply #26 on:** January 21, 2021, 06:56 PM »

Indeed, the push pull feature is a real bonus. And it makes those risky cuts very safe.

@Peter Parfitt I think you would make a splendid review of the CS 50 - you would easily couple it with your CMS accessories. Also, reviewing both the CS 50 and CS 70 would help many looking at these. The CS 50 has very innovative controls on the handle, very different from the CS 70, so these are different more than the cutting depth and size.

Peter Parfitt · « **Reply #27 on:** January 22, 2021, 01:30 AM »

Quote from: FestitaMakool on January 21, 2021, 06:56 PM

Indeed, the push pull feature is a real bonus. And it makes those risky cuts very safe.

@Peter Parfitt I think you would make a splendid review of the CS 50 - you would easily couple it with your CMS accessories. Also, reviewing both the CS 50 and CS 70 would help many looking at these. The CS 50 has very innovative controls on the handle, very different from the CS 70, so these are different more than the cutting depth and size.

It is such a pity that I can't get into one of the dealers and do some research. I suspect my first opportunity to look at the CS50 and CS70 will be a woodworking show later in the year. I am learning more already as I has assumed that the two machines were identical in function and features apart from the motor and blade size.

If there is anyone with knowledge of both machines I would be grateful for their contribution to this thread.

Cheers.

Peter

Alex · « **Reply #28 on:** January 22, 2021, 02:12 AM »

Quote from: Peter Parfitt on January 22, 2021, 01:30 AM

I suspect my first opportunity to look at the CS50 and CS70 will be a woodworking show later in the year. I am learning more already as I has assumed that the two machines were identical in function and features apart from the motor and blade size.

Function of both saws is identical.

A couple of buttons are different on the CS50, that's all. The pull lever of the 50 now has the on/off switch embedded. That means the emergency red OFF button is on a part that can move away from you. I do not understand such a design decision.

The knob to releases the slot in the table for blade change is now a green knob on top of the table instead of tucked away underneath. This one is pretty hard to reach on the 70.

Another significant change is the quick change for the blade, it has a quick release nut instead of a hex bolt with reverse thread. To make this work, the CS50 blades have two extra holes besides the main arbor hole. Some people may like it. I think it is incredibly proprietary as you can now only buy blades from Festool while I can choose between 10's of thousands of different blades for my CS70, as long as they have a 30 mm hole.

Peter Parfitt · « **Reply #29 on:** January 22, 2021, 03:57 AM »

Hi @Alex

Many thanks for this.

On my CMS-TS I can remove the riving knife very easily so that I can do rebating. Although Festool do not recommend this I find that the spring loaded riving knife on the TS55 still operates and I am always extremely careful - using a push block in my left hand and a push stick in the right.

Can rebating be done on either the CS50 or CS70?

Peter