Author Topic: Festool Precisio CS 70 Review (Read 45473 times)

MichaelW2014 · « **Reply #90 on:** August 19, 2015, 06:30 AM »

Quote from: rizzoa13 on August 19, 2015, 05:23 AM

If you acted a little less entitled then people (in general) would be more inclined to help you. Your acting like a child by trying to bad mouth a company on the Internet while simultaneously stating "they should come to me." You were able to get the saw home when you bought it so your perfectly capable of figuring out a way to get it back to them. Try being a little more human it'll get you far in life.

also, this thing is blown way out of proportion because they dropped the ball. they should have just sent me a new miter fence and called it a day. hopefully it would've been 90 degrees and in turn this thread would have been much shorter. how much would that have cost them, 20 euros (including shipping)? I don't know, not very much.

Holmz · « **Reply #91 on:** August 19, 2015, 06:32 AM »

All roads lead to Rome, but they may not send a tech to Athens.
Just imagine if you were in Australia.

At least they gave you a couple of options. That is a good start.

MichaelW2014 · « **Reply #92 on:** August 19, 2015, 06:44 AM »

Quote from: Holmz on August 19, 2015, 06:32 AM

All roads lead to Rome, but they may not send a tech to Athens.
Just imagine if you were in Australia.

At least they gave you a couple of options. That is a good start.

I feel pretty confident it will get sorted out, one way or another. Lessons learned.

I am very grateful to the community here and all who have offered their advice, input and opinion. This website/forum is very important to me.

Big G · « **Reply #93 on:** August 19, 2015, 06:59 AM »

Quote from: MichaelW2014 on August 19, 2015, 06:03 AM

Quote from: Big G on August 19, 2015, 05:20 AM
Quote from: MichaelW2014 on August 13, 2015, 07:32 AM
Festool has requested more proof of the problem with my miter fence. I took these images today.

Here you see there is 2mm+ of feeler gauges under the fence.
(Attachment Link)

You have to lift a 300mm triangular square by 2mm to make it perpendicular to your fence which roughly relates to the fence being about 1/3 mm out top to bottom, no wonder Festool refuse to replace it, it is well inside the requires tolerances of a guide fence. By the way I need a 6mm packer to get mine perpendicular and I have never experienced any problems in ripping something to size.

If you think that is ok for a 2,000E machine then I wonder what kind of work you make. That is not acceptable for me.

The CS 70 is only really suitable for out site or temporarily shop based due to the limitations of a 70mm underpowered cutting capacity.
It cuts 50mm timbers quite well, but is really suitable for roughing down trimming timbers, flooring etc which can then be sized either by hand or through a planer : thickener.
I have 30 odd years in joinery manufacturing so cutting timbers to 1 or 2 mm tolerances is the norm so please tell me what you do with a roughing saw that requires accuracy of better than 1/3 of a millimetre

MichaelW2014 · « **Reply #94 on:** August 19, 2015, 07:06 AM »

Quote from: Big G on August 19, 2015, 06:59 AM

Quote from: MichaelW2014 on August 19, 2015, 06:03 AM
Quote from: Big G on August 19, 2015, 05:20 AM
Quote from: MichaelW2014 on August 13, 2015, 07:32 AM
Festool has requested more proof of the problem with my miter fence. I took these images today.

Here you see there is 2mm+ of feeler gauges under the fence.
(Attachment Link)

You have to lift a 300mm triangular square by 2mm to make it perpendicular to your fence which roughly relates to the fence being about 1/3 mm out top to bottom, no wonder Festool refuse to replace it, it is well inside the requires tolerances of a guide fence. By the way I need a 6mm packer to get mine perpendicular and I have never experienced any problems in ripping something to size.

If you think that is ok for a 2,000E machine then I wonder what kind of work you make. That is not acceptable for me.

The CS 70 is only really suitable for out site or temporarily shop based due to the limitations of a 70mm underpowered cutting capacity.
It cuts 50mm timbers quite well, but is really suitable for roughing down trimming timbers, flooring etc which can then be sized either by hand or through a planer : thickener.
I have 30 odd years in joinery manufacturing so cutting timbers to 1 or 2 mm tolerances is the norm so please tell me what you do with a roughing saw that requires accuracy of better than 1/3 of a millimetre

Ok. We have a difference of opinion. That's all. No hard feelings. I am not a builder. I make picture frames and furniture. I need precision. That is what i expected when i bought my machine. I am repeating myself a lot. I don't think I am being unrealistic by asking for a fence that is exactly 90 degrees. I think that is reasonable. That's all man.

I would rather be picking your mind on how to do things than arguing with you about what is right in this situation. I am sorry to bring this stress.

Big G · « **Reply #95 on:** August 19, 2015, 09:08 AM »

Quote from: MichaelW2014 on August 19, 2015, 07:06 AM

Quote from: Big G on August 19, 2015, 06:59 AM
Quote from: MichaelW2014 on August 19, 2015, 06:03 AM
Quote from: Big G on August 19, 2015, 05:20 AM
Quote from: MichaelW2014 on August 13, 2015, 07:32 AM
Festool has requested more proof of the problem with my miter fence. I took these images today.

Here you see there is 2mm+ of feeler gauges under the fence.
(Attachment Link)

You have to lift a 300mm triangular square by 2mm to make it perpendicular to your fence which roughly relates to the fence being about 1/3 mm out top to bottom, no wonder Festool refuse to replace it, it is well inside the requires tolerances of a guide fence. By the way I need a 6mm packer to get mine perpendicular and I have never experienced any problems in ripping something to size.

If you think that is ok for a 2,000E machine then I wonder what kind of work you make. That is not acceptable for me.

The CS 70 is only really suitable for out site or temporarily shop based due to the limitations of a 70mm underpowered cutting capacity.
It cuts 50mm timbers quite well, but is really suitable for roughing down trimming timbers, flooring etc which can then be sized either by hand or through a planer : thickener.
I have 30 odd years in joinery manufacturing so cutting timbers to 1 or 2 mm tolerances is the norm so please tell me what you do with a roughing saw that requires accuracy of better than 1/3 of a millimetre

Ok. We have a difference of opinion. That's all. No hard feelings. I am not a builder. I make picture frames and furniture. I need precision. That is what i expected when i bought my machine. I am repeating myself a lot. I don't think I am being unrealistic by asking for a fence that is exactly 90 degrees. I think that is reasonable. That's all man.

I would rather be picking your mind on how to do things than arguing with you about what is right in this situation. I am sorry to bring this stress.

Not arguing just commenting on what is classed as acceptable tolerances, still dont see how you need accuracy beyond 1/3 mm for picture framing.
I cut timber for making mouldings similar to picture frame sizes but use them to do built up plinth and architrave profiles but I use a different set up than you, band saw, planer, thickener and finally spindal moulder to build the detailing, personally I think you have the wrong saw for fine work as what you have is a carpenters, joiners saw.

MichaelW2014 · « **Reply #96 on:** August 19, 2015, 09:45 AM »

1/3mm is the distance between the square and the fence where there is a gap. Let's neither misrepresent, minimize nor confuse it with the outcome of cutting wood on this machine, which varies depending on how you measure the distance between the blade and the fence, the size of the wood and how big it is once cut. I cannot say it is this or that, but 1/3 is the gap, not the outcome. 2.25-2.75mm is the amount to which the fence needs to be raised in order for the square to be flush against both the fence and the table.

Picture frames need to be perfect. People look closely at them. The miters need to be dead on. A 1/4mm gap is ugly, unacceptable. Furthermore, there is human error. So now you add human error to machine error and 1/4mm turns into 1mm or whatever. So you have to cut twice or three times as much pieces in order to get 1 perfect one. Etc.

I don't care to argue with you anymore nor defend my position. I disagree with you. I paid a hefty price for a "Precisio" that has a fence that is 2.5mm too short. I don't really care about any apologist type of argument.

MichaelW2014 · « **Reply #97 on:** August 19, 2015, 11:07 AM »

I have agreed on a plan to resolve the matter with festool. I will send the saw to them and they will send me a new one. Now that I am speaking with someone the customer service is great and I couldn't be happier with the resolution. Hopefully it will all work out in the end and the next fence I receive will be much better.

jobsworth · « **Reply #98 on:** August 20, 2015, 10:35 AM »

I agree with rizzola, you came to a message board airing your dirty laundry to the world. I find if you keep it between you and who ever things get done faster with less animosity. I've had some issues with my some of my festools. Kept. It between me and them got settled straight away and no animosity or hard feelings but got respect from them for handling it in professional manner.

MichaelW2014 · « **Reply #99 on:** August 20, 2015, 03:53 PM »

Quote from: jobsworth on August 20, 2015, 10:35 AM

I agree with rizzola, you came to a message board airing your dirty laundry to the world. I find if you keep it between you and who ever things get done faster with less animosity. I've had some issues with my some of my festools. Kept. It between me and them got settled straight away and no animosity or hard feelings but got respect from them for handling it in professional manner.

I disagree with you and rizzola. I think people should publish their opinions of tools and all products, for better or for worse and especially when there is a defect. If you keep it to yourself then there is less or no pressure on the company to right the wrong. Also, you are not helping your fellow consumer from making the same mistake you made. Airing your opinion on a forum such as this will either encourage a company to change it's ways or it will lose customers. In the end, generally speaking, reviewing products on the internet does two things: it drives progress in commerce and production; and it creates a better balance of power between consumer and seller. Well made products don't end up in landfills, at least not as quickly, which means good products are good for the environment and poorly made ones are unethical.

I sincerely believe this and I hope you will reconsider your position.

rizzoa13 · « **Reply #100 on:** August 20, 2015, 07:20 PM »

Alright so it seems you really want to get into this so here's my stance. You are entitled. Your entire stance has been that you feel festool should send you a new fence "because you say so". Well guess what I wouldn't believe a word you say either without seeing the product. If you had been the least bit flexible and taken the saw to them they may have already fixed the situation but instead you came here to complain in an effort to force them to cater to you so their wouldn't be bad publicity. That is a dirty way of acting and I wouldn't fix your saw on pure principle of you acting so entitled.

Luckily for you festool has a lot more couth (sp?) than I do because Id have told you to shove that fence. So to reiterate Im not trying to defend a company or belittle a problem you may have with a product. I'm merely stating that the way you went about it was lazy, entitled and laughably ineffective. Precisely the kind of person I wouldn't do business with.

Peter Halle · « **Reply #101 on:** August 20, 2015, 07:27 PM »

Please let's keep this civil or don't post.

Peter Halle - Moderator

MichaelW2014 · « **Reply #102 on:** August 21, 2015, 02:04 AM »

Quote from: rizzoa13 on August 20, 2015, 07:20 PM

Alright so it seems you really want to get into this so here's my stance. You are entitled. Your entire stance has been that you feel festool should send you a new fence "because you say so". Well guess what I wouldn't believe a word you say either without seeing the product. If you had been the least bit flexible and taken the saw to them they may have already fixed the situation but instead you came here to complain in an effort to force them to cater to you so their wouldn't be bad publicity. That is a dirty way of acting and I wouldn't fix your saw on pure principle of you acting so entitled.

Luckily for you festool has a lot more couth (sp?) than I do because Id have told you to shove that fence. So to reiterate Im not trying to defend a company or belittle a problem you may have with a product. I'm merely stating that the way you went about it was lazy, entitled and laughably ineffective. Precisely the kind of person I wouldn't do business with.

I have already responded to these perceptions. I have no interest in arguing about it any further--that's not worthy of my time. You are not saying anything worthy of conversation. You are wasting your time.

lollog · « **Reply #103 on:** August 26, 2015, 02:13 AM »

I can some one say me in metric size the dimension of the mitre slot?

Frank-Jan · « **Reply #104 on:** August 26, 2015, 09:30 AM »

Quote from: lollog on August 26, 2015, 02:13 AM

I can some one say me in metric size the dimension of the mitre slot?

There is no mitre slot on the cs70, the T-slot in the table is for clamping with the festool rail clamps, and isn't open at the front. Aproximate measurements (no calipers, just cheap ruler) bottomwidth 12 mm top opening 8.5 mm depth from top 10mm heigth inside T slot 7 mm

Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits · « **Reply #105 on:** December 02, 2015, 04:57 PM »

Is there anything in particular you would like to know?

I have had both - at the same time - but since joining a larger workshop with a LARGE format saw I just kept the CS50.

They are similar yet quite different. The CS50 is very portable but that portability and lack of weight _can_be a problem for some ripping tasks. The CS70 is heavier and with all the bells & whistles it isn't exactly "portable" in my book. It does everything a little bit better I think but all in all the CS50 is a great little machine for ripping small stuff, cutting flooring and trim to size. I don't use it as often nowadays but the cut quality and accuracy is great. Blade brake is great to have. The sliding mechanism on the CS50 is a bit easier but it isn't bad at all on the CS70.

The CS50 is too small to handle sheet goods very well - even with the add on tables. The CS70 does a better job with sheet goods but you would appreciate a hand when feeding them sheets through the machine.

Dust extraction is pretty good on both - except for ripping without the shroud in place where it is still good. They are fairly quiet (at least the CS50) and I find that once they are set up properly the repeatability is excellent even when removing add ons and putting them back on.

All in all the CS70 is not really comparable to a larger format saw but would serve most well as a "do it all" saw in a smaller workshop whereas the CS50 would be to limited I think - even when paired with a plunge saw with rails.

Compared to the brand new digital fence Felder Format saw we have in the workshop the CS70 is still severely limited in capacity and accuracy. I decided to keep the little one as it does a really good job on smaller jobs on site and is easy on the back but to be honest I sometimes miss the CS70 with parallel fence (LA) and one "side extension" on site.

For stability and capacity the CS70 is a "better" saw as in stronger and more stable and with all the add ons I could do most stuff with it - but with all the add ons the foot print was quite large in my small shop and removing extensions was a bit tedious in the long run. I am quite happy with the CS50 and I find the smaller footprint an advantage and coupled with a few other saws I wouldn't be without anyway (Kapex, Mafell rail saw) I find the CS50 worthwhile.

If you are working with mdf or any thicker stock on a regular basis I don't think a CS50 is the ticket but if you can find the space and £££ $$$ for a CS70 set up you have a whole lot of option that rival the CS70 in capacity.

Confusing or helping you? I don't know. Just typing from the top of my head. Have you any specific questions - ask away.

Kev · « **Reply #106 on:** December 02, 2015, 07:21 PM »

I decided not to get the CS70 because of its bulk and the fact that even collapsed, all the pieces add up to a lot of space ... I went CMS and I'm short significantly of the table saw outcome I desired. When space permits I will get a permanent slider (but that's still a time away).

To my thinking, the CS70 is not something you'll want to be continually packing up at the end of the day! That's the quick to deploy contractor saw market that Festool isn't currently addressing.

In this space I would also look at Mafell. I'm not a fan of the company by a long shot, but they do make some decent tools and their potable table saw offerings are more modern than the aging CS70 design (notice I say "aging" - certainly not obsolete).

Alex · « **Reply #107 on:** December 02, 2015, 08:28 PM »

Quote from: Kealevans on December 02, 2015, 06:04 PM

the motor is 2200w so should work well squaring up timber before running through the thicknesseser.

I also have the CS70, and I find the 2200 W motor not as strong as expected. It is an induction motor, and those do not deliver as much power per watt as conventional electric motors.

As long as you stay with soft wood you're okay at full cut capacity, but with hardwood over 40 mm mine starts to struggle. The thicker you go with hardwood the slower you have to feed it which can result in burn marks.

Quote from: Kealevans on December 02, 2015, 06:04 PM

I know the saw is suppose to be rather heavy but I'm used to lugging heavy tools 100 yards to site, it does seem to fold quite compact which is a plus because carrying something heavy is far easier than carrying something half the weight but a awkward size. Or am I wrong did you use it on site much or was it mainly used at your workshop ?

Don't underestimate its weight. With 33 kg it is heavy and pretty big, so it is not that easy to carry. I always use a foldable cart when I have to take it somewhere. Walking 100 yards with the CS70 in your hands is a real workout. If you bring all accessories of the full kit, you have to walk 3 times. But with my cart I can take it all easily at once. Going up a stairwell is also less fun.

Quote from: Kev on December 02, 2015, 07:21 PM

To my thinking, the CS70 is not something you'll want to be continually packing up at the end of the day! That's the quick to deploy contractor saw market that Festool isn't currently addressing.

Setting it up and packing it in is a 5 minute operation. Peanuts for a full days' work. But not something you want to do multiple times a day.

Quote from: Kev on December 02, 2015, 07:21 PM

than the aging CS70 design (notice I say "aging" - certainly not obsolete).

Correct, not obsolete, but certainly aging. The design is over 25 years old and could use a few tweaks here and there.

dutchie · « **Reply #108 on:** December 06, 2015, 04:56 PM »

You could look into a Mafell Erica 70 or 85 (higher price point) or Bosch GTS 10 XC (lower price point). Perhaps those fit your needs more!

GhostFist · « **Reply #109 on:** December 06, 2015, 05:27 PM »

I just got an erika 70 and I couldn't be happier

Peter Halle · « **Reply #110 on:** December 06, 2015, 05:51 PM »

Quote from: GhostFist on December 06, 2015, 05:27 PM

I just got an erika 70 and I couldn't be happier

WOW - just looked and those are over $3K here in NA. Not bashing the price, just hadn't checked them out entirely.

Peter

Kev · « **Reply #111 on:** December 06, 2015, 06:04 PM »

Quote from: Peter Halle on December 06, 2015, 05:51 PM

Quote from: GhostFist on December 06, 2015, 05:27 PM
I just got an erika 70 and I couldn't be happier

WOW - just looked and those are over $3K here in NA. Not bashing the price, just hadn't checked them out entirely.

Peter

I always get nervous spending (and being reliant) on something expensive with motors, electronics, etc without easy access to service and support. On paper the Erika 85 would have been a good option for me ... but not in Oz.

GhostFist · « **Reply #112 on:** December 07, 2015, 05:36 AM »

They aint cheap, thats for sure.

Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits · « **Reply #113 on:** December 07, 2015, 05:52 PM »

Quote from: Kealevans on December 03, 2015, 02:27 AM

Thanks all giving me s lot to think about maybe the cs70 just isn't right for me
Maybe I should hold my breath and wait for a new model to come out
I have thought about the cms paired with my ts75 but again the capacity seems much more limiting to the cs70

CMS with the TS75?

Don't do it. That's how I started out, with the TS75, parallel fence and side extension on the CMS. You get a powerful saw with a very flimsy table and no way to handle sheet goods properly. Set up is a nuisance and mounting and dismounting the saw too. The TS75 is a fantastic saw on the rails - not so much on the CMS. Of all your options it would be the "worst". The power to weight ratio is not in proportion and I can honestly not recommend it.

I have used the CS70 for quite some time and I agree that 40mm Oak will bog it down unless you fit a Panther blade but apart from thick hardwood I find the CS70 a great "compromise" of a saw.

You should also know that the CS70 has a motor intake filter and fares better in very dusty condition and the CS50 does not.

The Erika saws? Great! I have only used an older model on site, not mine though, I think it was the Erika 60. Pricey, but sturdy.

Kev · « **Reply #114 on:** December 07, 2015, 11:05 PM »

Quote from: Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits on December 07, 2015, 05:52 PM

Quote from: Kealevans on December 03, 2015, 02:27 AM
Thanks all giving me s lot to think about maybe the cs70 just isn't right for me
Maybe I should hold my breath and wait for a new model to come out
I have thought about the cms paired with my ts75 but again the capacity seems much more limiting to the cs70

CMS with the TS75?

Don't do it. That's how I started out, with the TS75, parallel fence and side extension on the CMS. You get a powerful saw with a very flimsy table and no way to handle sheet goods properly. Set up is a nuisance and mounting and dismounting the saw too. The TS75 is a fantastic saw on the rails - not so much on the CMS. Of all your options it would be the "worst". The power to weight ratio is not in proportion and I can honestly not recommend it.

I have used the CS70 for quite some time and I agree that 40mm Oak will bog it down unless you fit a Panther blade but apart from thick hardwood I find the CS70 a great "compromise" of a saw.

You should also know that the CS70 has a motor intake filter and fares better in very dusty condition and the CS50 does not.

The Erika saws? Great! I have only used an older model on site, not mine though, I think it was the Erika 60. Pricey, but sturdy.

I have a full CMS TS75 setup and agree .. not a friend of sheet goods and annoying when you want to go off 90⁰ !! Height adjustment is easy though. It's ok for cross-cutting 1.5~2m pieces and ripping ~3m. If I cross-cut bigger stuff I'll switch the module out of the GE and into the VL where the MFT/3 aids support (annoying amount of effort .. think I've don't it twice).

Fortunately I've dedicated a TS75 to the module, so I don't suffer the "in again out again" waltz!

I feel like a broken record when I drone on about wanting space for a slider ... but I DOOO!!!

Alex · « **Reply #115 on:** December 08, 2015, 05:13 PM »

The CS70 is still a great saw and I like mine very much.

Holmz · « **Reply #116 on:** December 08, 2015, 05:14 PM »

@Kev The Erika 85 is ~600 (shipping) landed into a proper shipping port and collected from there.

Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits · « **Reply #117 on:** December 09, 2015, 03:53 AM »

Kealevans: as part of a system the CS70 is the best of the lot.

Holmz: you do mean

Holmz · « **Reply #118 on:** December 09, 2015, 04:58 AM »

Ja ja

Kev · « **Reply #119 on:** December 09, 2015, 05:29 AM »

Quote from: Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits on December 09, 2015, 03:53 AM

Kealevans: as part of a system the CS70 is the best of the lot.

Holmz: you do mean

It doesn't hurt ... this is the ultimate plan ...

http://www.felder-australia.com/au-en/products/e53f1945eeccb7a8b7aeeab27947df9b/product_detail/c4e11064e9a0b2e6140f2fa6962dacec/e53f1945eeccb7a8b7aeeab27947df9b

... makes the Erika look like a child's toy!!