Author Topic: Festool Kapex, poor dust collection  (Read 1304 times)

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Offline Rupert199

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Festool Kapex, poor dust collection
« on: June 28, 2020, 06:18 AM »
Kapex 120REB poor dust collection[/url]Advice please. I have a Kapex KS120EB REB. I made about 20 cuts yesterday into 63mm CLS softwood for a storage racking project. The following video  was taken of the dust left afterwards on the saw. Is this normal to have so much sawdust left after cutting? I use good dust extraction using 36 mm hoses, I cut away from me towards the dust shoot and wait for extractor to start and saw to stop. Machine is around 11 months old.

url=https://youtu.be/7de8qTj7ky0

« Last Edit: June 28, 2020, 06:39 AM by Rupert199 »

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Offline FestitaMakool

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Re: Festool Kapex, poor dust collection
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2020, 06:58 AM »
Just a thought:
Have you checked that the dust port inside front to back in the Kapex is free from caught wood chips, same with the hose?
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline Jiggy Joiner

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Re: Festool Kapex, poor dust collection
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2020, 07:34 AM »
Hi there, I edited your Youtube link.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=7de8qTj7ky0

When I got my 120 REB, I was using a Festool 36mm hose and CTM, and was disappointed with the dust collection. It was better than previous saws but, not as good as I expected.

So I got an 1100mm length of 36mm hose, and connected it to our workshop extractor. This was a vast improvement but still not what I had hoped for.
So I changed the way I operate a mitre saw, after all these years, and saw further improvement.

Sometimes when cutting with the sub fences in place, hinders extraction, because the rubber catch hood gets squashed up, and dust goes around it, onto the saw base.
Thickness of stock being cut will make a difference too. In NA there is a hood extension like a brush that fits to the rubber hood, these apparently improve thing but, I can’t find one in the UK.

The best examples I’ve seen of dust extraction with a Kapex, are where a large rear extraction hood is fitted, and there is little or no dust doing this. Also the down draught extraction tables give great results.
Mine is acceptable most of the time but a few days ago, whilst cutting 95 x 45 and 145 x 22 there was dust everywhere.

Could you maybe do a video of you cutting with the Kapex, in the hope one of us might spot something?

Offline Bohdan

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Re: Festool Kapex, poor dust collection
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2020, 08:58 AM »
The video we need to see is of the actual cutting.

My question is are you using it as a drop saw or as a SCMS?

As a drop saw the sawdust is fired down out the bottom of the timber towards the end of the cut and past the pickup hood.

As a SCMS the dust is fired up into the hood and collected.

With a SCMS, to catch the dust, you need to pull the saw out past the timber, plunge it and cut by pushing it back in.

Offline Birdhunter

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Re: Festool Kapex, poor dust collection
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2020, 09:16 AM »
I've seen dust build up dramatically only once in all the many years I have used my Kapex.

The dust collection went from very good to terrible. I just about tore the Kapex apart before I found the problem.

I had been cutting 2X4 pine lumber. I had done a rough cut and then followed up with a trim cut slicing off a very thin piece. One of the very thin pieces was blocking the Kapex vacuum port as the head was down in the cutting position. the thin piece had been sucked up into the saw's port. It was not visible when the saw's head was in the up position.

My gut feel in looking at the video is that something is blocking the airflow. It looks really odd that there is a lot of saw dust on the front part of the saw..... almost like the blade is on backward.
Birdhunter

Offline Jiggy Joiner

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Re: Festool Kapex, poor dust collection
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2020, 09:27 AM »
I got a glimpse of the blade, it looks to be mounted correctly.
A blockage seems the most viable reason but, OP says suction is good? Maybe he means at the vacuum pipe, and the saw itself is blocked  [scratch chin]

Online Cheese

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Re: Festool Kapex, poor dust collection
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2020, 10:24 AM »
It'd be interesting to know how many individual cuts it took to make that mess.  [scared]  You have to have some blockage some where in your setup. Especially noticeable is all the sawdust at the front of the Kapex, I've never seen that before.

Here's a shot of 8 blocks that were cut from a mahogany board 1" thick & 4 1/2" wide. A total of 10 cuts with the Kapex.






Offline Distinctive Interiors

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Re: Festool Kapex, poor dust collection
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2020, 10:38 AM »
I agree with the comments above,......There is definitely something amiss somewhere! I've never had that amount of sawdust left all over my Kapex and I use it for cutting all sorts of timber and Solid Surface material....

Have you tried a shorter hose?
« Last Edit: June 28, 2020, 11:19 AM by Distinctive Interiors »

Offline Doug S

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Re: Festool Kapex, poor dust collection
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2020, 10:51 AM »
As said the extraction part of Kapex could be blocked, if I use my Kapex without extraction it seems to throw dust forwards.

Also it looks like there have been quite a few mitre cuts made, the dust extraction does get a bit hit and miss once you start cutting at different angles.

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Festool Kapex, poor dust collection
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2020, 10:56 AM »
Ya'll,

I have some dust collection issues with my Kapex.

I have dust in the front of the saw.

 I use a small piece of 35mm hose ( about 4-5 ft in length) connected to a dedicated ct 22 for extraction.

Good idea about looking for blockage.

 I do cut a lot of small thin pieces so maybe thats the cause. Ill give it a looksie

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Festool Kapex, poor dust collection
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2020, 11:09 AM »
to the OP,

as what was previously mentioned please show us a video of your cutting technique. I was using mine as a chop saw for quite a while. Then when I took one of Greg Paolinis class (who is a pro woodworker with a pro shop) she told me my technique wasnt correct. It isnt a chop saw.

What he showed me is always pull the saw fwd, clamp the material, place your free hand on the clamped material (out of the way of the blade of course) press the material against the fence gentley just to ensure it doesnt move,  bring the saw up to speed let the dust extractor fully power up, with hand infant so your not pulling the saw to ether side slowly push the saw toward the piece cutting it, once cut allow the saw to come to a complete stop before raising the blade and pulling it fwd for the next cut.

I dont know if your technique or the saws vacuum ports being clogged. I as I said above, have to check mines to.

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Festool Kapex, poor dust collection
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2020, 11:15 AM »
Snip.
The video we need to see is of the actual cutting.

That would have made the video much more useful in helping the problem diagnosis. Only a clip of 15 to 30 seconds is needed.

Offline rmhinden

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Re: Festool Kapex, poor dust collection
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2020, 11:31 AM »
My Kapex's dust collection is much better than what I see in your video.    It is not perfect, similar to the pictures that @Cheese posted.    I use a short 36mm hose connected to a CT22.

Like others, I think there must be some blockage somewhere between the Kapex entrance shroud and the dust collector.   It's almost like your dust collector isn't turned on.

Recently, I was cutting some cedar fence slats to make a planter box.  The wood was damp.   I had to frequent clear the dust collection entrance in the Kapex as it was getting clogged there due to the wet sawdust. 

Bob
« Last Edit: June 28, 2020, 12:29 PM by rmhinden »

Offline Rupert199

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Re: Festool Kapex, poor dust collection
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2020, 02:31 PM »
Thanks everyone for your comments. Defiantly not a blockage as it is a brand new hose, no blockage between dust hood and hose.

I will upload a short video (20-30 seconds, point taken) of my technique, need to clear some space first as I am trying to reorganise the workshop ( how do we amass so much stuff). As I was only cutting CLS then maybe I was using it more as a chop saw as it was only 63mm wide and did not use the slide function, i was also cutting quite a few mitres.

Offline ryanjg117

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Re: Festool Kapex, poor dust collection
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2020, 02:06 AM »
Cheese, is that subfence catching on your dust inlet? I'm using a very similarly designed subfence and notice it does catch and definitely does hamper dust collection. A trade-off between having zero tearout on the backend or a bit of a mess to clean up.

Online Cheese

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Re: Festool Kapex, poor dust collection
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2020, 10:21 AM »
Cheese, is that subfence catching on your dust inlet? I'm using a very similarly designed subfence and notice it does catch and definitely does hamper dust collection. A trade-off between having zero tearout on the backend or a bit of a mess to clean up.

Yes it does Ryan, that's the reason I've been thinking about substituting a Fastcap stache for it instead and see how that works.

Offline Rupert199

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Re: Festool Kapex, poor dust collection
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2020, 05:52 PM »


Festool Kapex making some cuts
I have updated my previous video to show me making some cuts to show the dust collection on my Kapex 120 REB. I have taken advice from comments in my previous video and from the Festool Owners Group forum.

I have shown how i use my machine to cut CLS timber and my technique for cutting.

I have reduced the hose length to 70 inches (1.7m), this could be reduced a little bit more but i need to allow for mitre cuts.

These were all straight cuts and the chips left seem much less than previously, maybe this is down to making a large number of mitre cuts in my previous build and this could be where dust collection may have been reduced. i also opened up the fences a bit wider so as not to impede the dust hood.

Dust can clearly be seen being sucked up into the hose via the dust hood.

however, i still thinke the amount of chips being left on the machine is excessive and requires a good clean up afterwards.

I would like to hear your views on this, is this acceptable or am i being a little bit too picky?

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Festool Kapex, poor dust collection
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2020, 07:02 PM »
As a Kapex user since 2010 I don't see anything unusual in your most recent video in comparison to mine.  It isn't perfect.  I often suggest that a true comparison is to not use dust collection and then compare.

Peter

Offline FestitaMakool

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Re: Festool Kapex, poor dust collection
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2020, 07:26 PM »
The last video seems to be normal in my experience too (KS 120 REB)

But I crimped when I watched how close your right hand were to the spinning blade  [scared]
I noticed that you had the Kapex clamp in place, I advise you to use it. [smile]
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline Joebuck

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Re: Festool Kapex, poor dust collection
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2020, 08:00 PM »
Seems like a minor amount of dust or chips left behind. Painful to watch sawing technique with loose off cut floating around and hands entirely too close to finger removal device.

Offline ChrisOldCodger

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Re: Festool Kapex, poor dust collection
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2020, 10:08 PM »
I had problems with dust collection after using a Forstner bit to hog out some wood in a bowl I was making.

Traced the problem to very thin disks of wood created by the drilling being sucked into the hose, causing a drop in air flow.

Gave a good puff into the reversed hose and out popped the disks.

I have the Festool cyclone box on top of the CT26, and use the 36 mm hose to connect the CT26Cto the cyclone box. Very little drop in suction with this setup, and cyclone is a great success.

Online Cheese

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Re: Festool Kapex, poor dust collection
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2020, 10:26 PM »
@Rupert199  that now seems like the norm for Kapex dust collection. [big grin]  It's not 100% but it is at the 90%+ level. For a sanity check, just make 14 cuts without the vacuum attached and measure the results.  [smile]

However, I would caution that you take more care when dealing with the off cuts. The Kapex has a nasty way of propelling the off cuts towards the blade, fence and plastic blade guard which usually results in some form of damage. The Kapex is a great miter saw but it is a bit tweakier than any I've previously owned/used.

The normal drill is that after the cut is complete, you release the trigger and when the blade stops, you remove the off cut.

It's also recommended that you start the cut in front of the material and then push the blade towards the fence.

In your video, you are using the Kapex like a chop saw in that you're cutting into the material first and then moving the saw towards the fence. Less dust will be collected if used in that manner.

Offline RKA

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Re: Festool Kapex, poor dust collection
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2020, 10:27 PM »
As a Kapex user since 2010 I don't see anything unusual in your most recent video in comparison to mine.  It isn't perfect.  I often suggest that a true comparison is to not use dust collection and then compare.

Peter

No need to waste more wood, he can turn the vacuum bin upside down and sprinkle the dust everywhere.  That’s what it will look like.   [wink]

Seriously, what you showed in this video is what you should expect.  Before I got mine many years ago I remember reading accounts of people cutting inside homes with just a small drop cloth to catch the course stuff that falls behind the saw.  My experience with it says no way.  The dust collection is good but not THAT good.  I think with the changes you made you’re getting the proper dust collection.

Two tips.  Let the blade stop before you lift the saw head.  This saw WILL throw small off cuts and in some cases it may damage the plastic parts behind the blade (and you may soil your pants).  Second, do not make a cut with something wedged behind the wood on the waste side of your cut.  Get those scraps out of the way before you make the next cut.  You don’t want the waste material some how wedging itself against the blade or the saw will kickback and throw those scraps, possibly damaging the saw and nearby fingers in the process.
-Raj

Offline Rupert199

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Re: Festool Kapex, poor dust collection
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2020, 05:47 AM »
Thanks again for your comments. I am more comfortable now that my saw seems to be the same as other people’s.

Points taken on cutting small pieces and kick back. I must stress though that I did not put my hand near the blade unless the guard was down and the blade had stopped.

One more point though I noticed that while The majority of the dust is sucked up through the the dust hood, several times I noticed dust escapes where the dust hood joins the saw body. I know the hood was fitted correctly before I started and wonder if some of my dust issues stem from this area of the saw.

I will check this again to see if something is broken here.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

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Re: Festool Kapex, poor dust collection
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2020, 08:07 AM »
@Rupert199 Your technique still needs honing. Try and get the blade pulled right out, and right down before starting the motor. With the stock you were cutting, this is achievable but, the wider stock, makes this impossible, and you will then start cutting, and get the blade dow smoothly before going forward.

These little factors will all keep the dust down. You are using a mix of chop and push at the moment, so get accustomed to pulling back, lowering fully, start the motor, then smoothly forward, stop motor, once blade stops, bring the cutting head back up.

As the others have said, try and use the clamps and sub fences whenever possible, and even better make a zero clearance pair of sub fence add ons.

For what it’s worth, I still sometimes display bad habits, nearly always when I’m tired.