Author Topic: Festool HL850  (Read 3959 times)

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Online Bertotti

  • Posts: 369
Festool HL850
« on: August 09, 2022, 06:05 PM »
I don't see it on the Festool USA site and on one page it says discontinued! Did I happen to time it just right? I just bought one yesterday. Got the course head and I have the fine on order, should I order the undulating head since it seems it has been discontinued? What will the availability of these heads and blades be moving forward?
I want to populate SD with trees because I miss the forests of the river bottoms.

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Offline luvmytoolz

  • Posts: 153
Re: Festool HL850
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2022, 06:49 PM »
It has been discontinued so far as I'm aware, for reasons I can't fathom as the HL850 is possibly the greatest planer ever made IMHO!

You will love using it, it's a beautifully designed machine.

You will still be able to buy parts for some time though, even my decades old RS2E sander I can still buy parts for.

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1805
Re: Festool HL850
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2022, 07:01 PM »
It has been discontinued so far as I'm aware

The table for it is, the HL 850 itself? Huh no.

It even got the "new" spacewasting Systainer3

Offline Chainring

  • Posts: 192
Re: Festool HL850
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2022, 07:16 PM »
The HL 850 is still up on festool.com. It's not immediately seen on festoolusa.com, though it could probably be found by part number. Was it already in a Sys 3?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 10010
Re: Festool HL850
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2022, 07:32 PM »
If you search for the HL 850 or 576612, this is what comes up on the Festool USA website.


Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 1514
Re: Festool HL850
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2022, 08:06 PM »
If you search for the HL 850 or 576612, this is what comes up on the Festool USA website.

(Attachment Link)

To be fair, that's pretty much also what it said for the TS-75 while it was on limited/halted production and containers weren't coming state-side.

Offline guybo

  • Posts: 420
Re: Festool HL850
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2022, 08:12 PM »
Hi, I did see yesterday that 485018 angle stop was on sale for the 850 and just checked and sold out @toolpro,hoping for more sales on accs. said on sale till oct.22

Offline bwehman

  • Posts: 159
Re: Festool HL850
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2022, 02:44 AM »
There's been a lot of this happening with the transition to the new Systainers. For instance, that part number is probably for the HL850 in the T-Loc. The "new" part number will be the HL850 in the new Systainer3.

Offline mino

  • Posts: 1129
Re: Festool HL850
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2022, 04:04 AM »
There's been a lot of this happening with the transition to the new Systainers. For instance, that part number is probably for the HL850 in the T-Loc. The "new" part number will be the HL850 in the new Systainer3.
The new part# for a 230V version is 576253 and seems to be available in Europe but not in UK.

So it is possible Festool is either gradually discontinuing, OR they are dropping the 110V version /and the 230V along with it in the UK/.

I lean on the gradual discontinuing here. That the HL850 stand was discontinued a couple years back aligns with this.

The tool is a 20 year old design (well, 40 year old if you ignore the electronics update by Festool) without changes. Probably everyone who needed it already got it. So new sales can be pretty low as the tool has a 30+ year lifespan. Most sold in the 80s are likely still in full use ...
« Last Edit: August 10, 2022, 04:06 AM by mino »
When The Machine has no brains, use yours.

Offline mino

  • Posts: 1129
Re: Festool HL850
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2022, 04:16 AM »
@Festool USA

I have a comment/proposal to pass along.

When there is a plan to discontinue a tool without replacement - like the RAS, or the LS130 - would it be possible to make a "last chance to get it program" where once the stock is sold and the tool is discontinued, there is "last manufacturing run" pre-order program where, for say 1 year, customer can place a pre-order at their dealer which will be collected and then manufactured, including all then-manufacturable accessories as upgrades ?

E.g. when a tool is discontinued (without replacement) with 2022 being the last year, instead of dropping from the catalog it will be moved to "Discontinued tools, last order by June 30 2023 with delivery in November 2023" section in the 2023 catalog. Same way there is a "new tools" section.

That way
 - the manufacturing can plan
 - the dealers can stock-up if they see the tool as sufficiently unique to command a profit
 - the customers have a chance to react if they planned the purchase instead of being left dry
 - the "last run" can become even a collector's item eventually e.g. with numbered run, etc. so can be priced say 5% above the normal cost etc. etc.

Would be a Win-Win-Win in my view.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2022, 04:19 AM by mino »
When The Machine has no brains, use yours.

Online Bertotti

  • Posts: 369
Re: Festool HL850
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2022, 07:27 AM »
Well, I doubt it is the sys 3 switch since mine is already in a sys3. Might be there will be a new version or they just dropped it, pick any current excuse companies use. I know at my store they on;y get them one at a time but they go out almost as fast as they come in. I'm just going to find and order the last couple of items and a set of blades for each and go on my merry way. Everyone seems in agreement it is the best of the best and the originals are most likely running to this day trouble-free. Even if it's gone forever I am not regretting the purchase but more so the loss of a great tool in the market.

But perhaps it is a manufacturing move? And once complete and up to their quality, it will come back?

I want to populate SD with trees because I miss the forests of the river bottoms.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5604
Re: Festool HL850
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2022, 11:20 AM »
@Festool USA

I have a comment/proposal to pass along.

When there is a plan to discontinue a tool without replacement - like the RAS, or the LS130 - would it be possible to make a "last chance to get it program" where once the stock is sold and the tool is discontinued, there is "last manufacturing run" pre-order program where, for say 1 year, customer can place a pre-order at their dealer which will be collected and then manufactured, including all then-manufacturable accessories as upgrades ?

E.g. when a tool is discontinued (without replacement) with 2022 being the last year, instead of dropping from the catalog it will be moved to "Discontinued tools, last order by June 30 2023 with delivery in November 2023" section in the 2023 catalog. Same way there is a "new tools" section.

That way
 - the manufacturing can plan
 - the dealers can stock-up if they see the tool as sufficiently unique to command a profit
 - the customers have a chance to react if they planned the purchase instead of being left dry
 - the "last run" can become even a collector's item eventually e.g. with numbered run, etc. so can be priced say 5% above the normal cost etc. etc.

Would be a Win-Win-Win in my view.

I haven’t not made a close comparison but the Arbortech Power Carving tool might be a good alternative to the missing RAS. 2000-11,000 rpm with soft start and dust collection.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2022, 11:33 AM by Michael Kellough »

Online Bertotti

  • Posts: 369
Re: Festool HL850
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2022, 11:28 AM »
I have eyed one of those but it isn't a plane. I would use it more for large material removal on different projects.
I want to populate SD with trees because I miss the forests of the river bottoms.

Offline mino

  • Posts: 1129
Re: Festool HL850
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2022, 01:22 PM »
I haven’t not made a close comparison but the Arbortech Power Carving tool might be a good alternative to the missing RAS. 2000-11,000 rpm with soft start and dust collection.
That 11 k top speed means it is not even close on torque, basically a lower speed angle grinder. The RAS was geared about 3x slower so it had the torque even at 1500 rpm, not to mention at 3000.

But that was not my point. The proposal was -from-the-view-of- Festool.

The current situation is complete junk - Festool does not make money (they could make), customers are ticked and dealers get the short end too.  It is a classic Lose-Lose-Lose.

I understand why they do not announce end of sale - they do not want the product to be seen as "EOL" while there is stock to sell. Having the "discontinued" announcement AFTER all stock was sold will remove that concern and would generate some additional demand which would not happen otherwise => incremental sales that would nort otherwise happen as people will have the time to save up etc. etc.

Many brands do this with cars and other stuff that was somehow unique on the market. It would also align with the Apple-isation of Festool we are observing these days. So no conflict there either.
When The Machine has no brains, use yours.

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1805
Re: Festool HL850
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2022, 04:43 PM »
@Festool USA

I have a comment/proposal to pass along.

When there is a plan to discontinue a tool without replacement - like the RAS, or the LS130 - would it be possible to make a "last chance to get it program" where once the stock is sold and the tool is discontinued, there is "last manufacturing run" pre-order program where, for say 1 year, customer can place a pre-order at their dealer which will be collected and then manufactured, including all then-manufacturable accessories as upgrades ?

E.g. when a tool is discontinued (without replacement) with 2022 being the last year, instead of dropping from the catalog it will be moved to "Discontinued tools, last order by June 30 2023 with delivery in November 2023" section in the 2023 catalog. Same way there is a "new tools" section.

That way
 - the manufacturing can plan
 - the dealers can stock-up if they see the tool as sufficiently unique to command a profit
 - the customers have a chance to react if they planned the purchase instead of being left dry
 - the "last run" can become even a collector's item eventually e.g. with numbered run, etc. so can be priced say 5% above the normal cost etc. etc.

Would be a Win-Win-Win in my view.

Yes, like Intel does.

Offline bwehman

  • Posts: 159
Re: Festool HL850
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2022, 06:09 PM »
@Festool USA

I have a comment/proposal to pass along.

When there is a plan to discontinue a tool without replacement - like the RAS, or the LS130 - would it be possible to make a "last chance to get it program" where once the stock is sold and the tool is discontinued, there is "last manufacturing run" pre-order program where, for say 1 year, customer can place a pre-order at their dealer which will be collected and then manufactured, including all then-manufacturable accessories as upgrades ?

E.g. when a tool is discontinued (without replacement) with 2022 being the last year, instead of dropping from the catalog it will be moved to "Discontinued tools, last order by June 30 2023 with delivery in November 2023" section in the 2023 catalog. Same way there is a "new tools" section.

That way
 - the manufacturing can plan
 - the dealers can stock-up if they see the tool as sufficiently unique to command a profit
 - the customers have a chance to react if they planned the purchase instead of being left dry
 - the "last run" can become even a collector's item eventually e.g. with numbered run, etc. so can be priced say 5% above the normal cost etc. etc.

Would be a Win-Win-Win in my view.

I really love this idea.

Online Bertotti

  • Posts: 369
Re: Festool HL850
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2022, 01:14 AM »
I have eyed one of those but it isn't a plane. I would use it more for large material removal on different projects.

For the price, I think I would be more inclined to use Kutzall disc or wheel on my angle grinder.
I want to populate SD with trees because I miss the forests of the river bottoms.

Offline mino

  • Posts: 1129
Re: Festool HL850
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2022, 05:14 AM »
I did not want, as this is not a RAS thread. Nevermind:

Flex has a whole "RAS of 2020" product line:
https://www.flex-tools.com/en/products/sanders/rotary-sanders/se-14-2-125-set


As said, that was not my point however. Alternatives availability comes into the original "shall we redo or discontinue" decision.

Addressing "end-of-life-without-(Festool)-replacement" scenario comes after the discontinue decision was made and is a completely separate thing.

One needs to think of it like Strategy (decide to leave a market) versus Tactics (not piss the customers while doing it and making some profit on top).
« Last Edit: August 12, 2022, 06:06 AM by mino »
When The Machine has no brains, use yours.

Online Bertotti

  • Posts: 369
Re: Festool HL850
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2022, 08:43 AM »
I started the thread to let others know of its discontinuation, not really to discuss Festool's plans on such and how they go about it. Threads have a life of their own and the intention of the original post is generally not cast in stone. I understand what you're saying about how companies, not just Festool phase items out or drop them out of the blue. It happens. Is there a better way, well there are so many variables I would say every situation will demand a different approach. For instance, regarding parts availability you could preannounce the discontinuation but what good would it do they wouldn't be in a position to offer a final run sale. existing customers who have the items registered could receive a notice giving them the first chance to pick up whatever might be needed, perhaps.

As for the other items, heck, it's interesting to see what others might do for certain uses and their alternatives, perfectly in line with the discontinuation. I can see both Arbortech and the Kutzal working well for certain things the plane would have been used for plus other things it wouldn't be used for. Nevertheless, it covers something the poster thought relevant and I had forgotten about.
I want to populate SD with trees because I miss the forests of the river bottoms.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5604

Offline Chainring

  • Posts: 192
Re: Festool HL850
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2022, 12:20 PM »
It's back on Festool US.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 10010
Re: Festool HL850
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2022, 12:42 PM »
It's back on Festool US.

They stuffed it into a SYS³ Systainer, raised the price to $699 and changed the P/N to 576258. I guess that's a good thing.  [smile]

Check out the price at Ohio Power Tool for the older 576612 model...$500.  [big grin]  That's a $200 savings and a nicer Systainer.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2022, 02:46 PM by Cheese »

Offline Coen

  • Posts: 1805
Re: Festool HL850
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2022, 03:50 PM »
What is a good thing? The sys3? Meh. The price? Not really. The product number? Who cares?

It could have all been so nice if they didn't nix the heights.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 10010
Re: Festool HL850
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2022, 04:09 PM »
What is a good thing? The sys3? Meh. The price? Not really. The product number? Who cares?

It could have all been so nice if they didn't nix the heights.

I was referring to it being available again in the US. With all of the items Festool has been discontinuing or restricting in certain countries it was a pleasant surprise.

Offline Chainring

  • Posts: 192
Re: Festool HL850
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2022, 04:43 PM »
What's odd is, Bertotti posted above a pic of the HL 850 in a Sys3 and Bertotti is in the US. The Festool US site is just sometimes goofy.

Online Bertotti

  • Posts: 369
Re: Festool HL850
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2022, 09:41 PM »
The whole deal is odd. My mom and pop ordered me a fine head and a week later the curved one. Neither has shown up yet. This world is just getting stranger and stranger. I can't even get the US site to load right now, and yes mine did come in the new sys3 Just odd.
I want to populate SD with trees because I miss the forests of the river bottoms.