Author Topic: Festool CSX in 2020  (Read 3668 times)

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Offline Bran077

  • Posts: 8
Festool CSX in 2020
« on: June 14, 2020, 09:32 PM »
Has the tool changed at all since it was introduced?  Is it still the installation drill/driver to own now that it has competition from Milwaukee and Bosch?  Just curious, I’m not invested in any particular system.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Online vkumar

  • Posts: 508
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2020, 09:42 PM »
Other than the higher capacity batteries they introduced about 3 years ago, nothing has changed,  No brushless motor for example.
Vijay Kumar

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 337
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2020, 10:01 PM »
This is but one example where Festool lags behind in the battery tool world.

Even lowly Ryobi has brushless motors in a sub $100 drill.   No excuse really for FT to have not "improved" theirs -or- to offer other tools that run on the same battery.

Offline grobkuschelig

  • Posts: 640
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2020, 03:13 AM »
I can see the point of wanting the cool new „brushless“ but I have been using my CXS since 2013 and it is still going strong and I love it.
I am contemplating purchasing a new and selling the old to get hold of the newer batteries, but that’s about it.
I looked at the „competition“ but I love the way the CXS handles so much that in my hand, nothing comes close. :)

Offline Spandex

  • Posts: 77
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2020, 04:44 AM »
Indeed... I am absolutely sure that a modern, brushless version of the CXS would be more powerful than the current model, but equally, I never find myself using the current model and wishing it was better.

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1854
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2020, 05:18 AM »
Indeed... I am absolutely sure that a modern, brushless version of the CXS would be more powerful than the current model, but equally, I never find myself using the current model and wishing it was better.

[thumbs up]

This. I sold my CXS and purchased the updated model with the new battery format. It's a great drill and I've never wished it to be anything other than it is. As @Spandex notes, it doesn't need to be anything more.

Offline capww8

  • Posts: 34
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2020, 09:03 AM »
I have really liked the Milwaukee assembly driver - bought immediately at launch.


Offline morts10n

  • Posts: 253
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2020, 09:12 AM »
I have 2 TSX and I couldnt tell you if they are the updated ones or not. What is the difference in batteries?

Offline Jim_in_PA

  • Posts: 132
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2020, 09:13 AM »
I can see the point of wanting the cool new „brushless“ but I have been using my CXS since 2013 and it is still going strong and I love it.
I am contemplating purchasing a new and selling the old to get hold of the newer batteries, but that’s about it.
I looked at the „competition“ but I love the way the CXS handles so much that in my hand, nothing comes close. :)

Just buy the batteries...they are compatible, AFAIK. I'm about to do that myself.
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Offline PeterK

  • Posts: 1020
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2020, 10:09 AM »
Had my CSX since they were introduced. Purchased the higher capacity batteries when they came out. Highly recommend the bigger batteries for longer run time. Totally love this drill as is so light weight, ergonomically perfect for me, easy to carry on my belt. It gets probably 98% of my drill use. Has more power than I expected. Can use the larger drill chucks of the bigger Festool drills if need to fit a larger drill bit.

Offline grobkuschelig

  • Posts: 640
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2020, 11:24 AM »
I have 2 TSX and I couldnt tell you if they are the updated ones or not. What is the difference in batteries?
With the TXS you are already on the new batteries.

The old CXS has batteries (1.5Ah) that went up into the handle...

Online vkumar

  • Posts: 508
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2020, 11:52 AM »
Indeed... I am absolutely sure that a modern, brushless version of the CXS would be more powerful than the current model, but equally, I never find myself using the current model and wishing it was better.

[thumbs up]

This. I sold my CXS and purchased the updated model with the new battery format. It's a great drill and I've never wished it to be anything other than it is. As @Spandex notes, it doesn't need to be anything more.

I hear horror stories about having to replace brushes requiring a total disassembly of the unit, not as simple as popping in the brushes like many other drills. This is why a brushless would be great.
Vijay Kumar

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 7394
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2020, 12:01 PM »
I have 2 TSX and I couldnt tell you if they are the updated ones or not. What is the difference in batteries?

Original 1.5Ah on the left, newer 2.6Ah on the right. What's also nice is that the base of the newer battery is wider so it's less likely to fall over.

I think Festool SHOULD upgrade the CXS, it's getting long in the tooth.  A brushless motor would increase the run time, that'd be a major improvement.

Also, I've never been happy with the maximum speed of 1300 rpm when using small drill bits (under 1/8" diameter) , those need to be spun at closer to 2000 rpm.

« Last Edit: June 15, 2020, 12:04 PM by Cheese »

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1960
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2020, 12:03 PM »
@vkumar Its not too bad.  According to the thread below, the entire motor is replaced, but it’s reasonably inexpensive and easy.

https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/help-wanted-how-to-replace-brushes-on-the-cxs/
-Raj

Online vkumar

  • Posts: 508
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2020, 12:08 PM »
@vkumar Its not too bad.  According to the thread below, the entire motor is replaced, but it’s reasonably inexpensive and easy.

https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/help-wanted-how-to-replace-brushes-on-the-cxs/
In that article they say that a motor swap was necessary and it cost as much  as brushes would cost. I find that hard to believe.
Vijay Kumar

Offline Spandex

  • Posts: 77
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2020, 12:36 PM »
To be fair, it actually says “not much more than the brushes themselves would have cost”

I’ve swapped the motor in an old CXS. It wasn’t particularly difficult and the motor was relatively cheap. Obviously brushes would be cheaper, and brushless would remove the requirement entirely.

Offline Bran077

  • Posts: 8
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2020, 12:47 PM »
All this said, does the Festool offer any benefits over its competitors?  Honestly I’m not too worried about a brushed motor even if it SHOULD be updated by now.  I believe the Bosch FlexiClick is still brushed...incidentally.  By the time I reach runtime on a brushed motor it’ll be time to buy another one anyway.


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Offline six-point socket II

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  • formerly @the_black_tie_diyer
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2020, 01:31 PM »
Hi!

I can't speak about availability in NA, but Bosch's 10.8/12V FC is available as brushless by now. Although they introduced it as brushed model.

Speaking of the CXS. I love mine. I still think it has the best angle attachment available, and given the size of it - there is imho no need for any other attachments - some claim there is.

No one really knows what Festool is working on or not, but - at the time of this post - it's still Festool's one and only 10.8/12V tool and the batteries aren't useful on anything but the drill. And personally I don't see Festool ever offering a range of 10.8/12V tools that cold compete (in terms of the range of tool types offered!) with the already mentioned competitors.

Would >> I << buy it again? Yes, in a heart beat. I love it. Would I "upgrade" it to brushless, more RPM (maybe a 3 gear drive ...) - probably.

If you want to buy a lightweight, more than powerful enough, little drill/driver in a neat package: buy it.

If you want a 10.8/12V "Platform" - don't buy it. Or buy it and buy also into a second battery system.

To me all that stuff doesn't matter. I buy the tools I like, and with todays overall battery life and capacity, I never run into any sort of trouble. But I'm also not on the road everyday. And when I use certain tools extensively, I notice and buy another spare battery or two. I really don't care.

At some point in future I will be removing a suspended ceiling that was put in in the 70ties. All slotted screws. I can't wait to put my hand through the CXS's C handle and remove the screws and not loosing grip on the drill when taking & handing down the modules. Plus it is so lightweight, I won't suffer from fatigue in the evening.

Tools are more than just brushless, max. speed, max. torque.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Online vkumar

  • Posts: 508
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2020, 01:38 PM »
All this said, does the Festool offer any benefits over its competitors?  Honestly I’m not too worried about a brushed motor even if it SHOULD be updated by now.  I believe the Bosch FlexiClick is still brushed...incidentally.  By the time I reach runtime on a brushed motor it’ll be time to buy another one anyway.


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Bosch GSR12V-300FCB22 is the 12V brushless model offered at the same price as the Milwaukee equivalent.
Vijay Kumar

Offline grobkuschelig

  • Posts: 640
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2020, 01:50 PM »
Tools are more than just brushless, max. speed, max. torque.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Amen to that! Could not agree more. :)

Offline rmhinden

  • Posts: 315
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2020, 02:27 PM »
I am very happy with my CXS, it's my favorite cordless drill.   Probably made better since I have a Centrotec Installers Set

I also have a drill press and two old Makita drills, I only use the latter if I need more power, but that doesn't happen very often.    I continue to be surprised about how powerful the CXS is given its size and weight.

I would seriously consider buying an improved version if it was available.

Bob

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1960
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2020, 02:46 PM »
All this said, does the Festool offer any benefits over its competitors?  Honestly I’m not too worried about a brushed motor even if it SHOULD be updated by now.  I believe the Bosch FlexiClick is still brushed...incidentally.  By the time I reach runtime on a brushed motor it’ll be time to buy another one anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The differences are subtle.  So it so it depends on your needs. 

Festool pros - very slim body, enough that the need for an offset chuck is almost unnecessary (for really tight corners, use the 90 degree chuck), excellent trigger control.  The centrotec chuck is a pro and a con.  It’s lightweight and the balance of the drill with that chuck makes it the best of breed imho.  But adopting the centrotec system completely is expensive and impossible.  The Jacobs chuck won’t be far behind when you don’t have the right centrotec but/drill on hand.  Cons - It’s low on power compared to brushless models, however, if used as an installation tool, that shouldn’t matter much.  It’s when you push it to other tasks because it’s what you have hanging by your side that this becomes evident. And as cheese mentioned, the max RPM is noticeable when drilling.  In general, it’s showing it’s age, but I still like it and would replace it with another today if cost was not a factor.

Milwaukee - better battery life, particularly if you’re using the 3ah compact batteries, more power.  M12 compatible ecosystem of tools (compared to the Festool ecosystem of one tool).

Bosch - don’t know, but I‘ve read the trigger control is good.  The body is a bit chubby compared to the festool.  You can get screaming deals on these if you can wait.  $100-120 isn’t uncommon when Amazon put them on sale once or twice a year.

I would add that every Milwaukee drill and impact driver I own (M12 and M18) have a trigger that wants to actuate in defined “steps” and they ramp up fast.  So the trigger control is decidedly bad when you’re looking for precision.  In many cases it doesn’t matter, however with this tool, I would say it’s something you should pay attention to.  If you can’t test it in store, find a retailer that has a generous return policy.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2020, 02:50 PM by RKA »
-Raj

Offline mrB

  • Posts: 712
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2020, 03:27 PM »
The CXS is wonderful, but because there was practically zero jobs I could risk taking only the CXS I wondered why I bothered with it when I love my T18 compact so much..  Eventually sold it to fund another tool.

If festool either gave it more power and/or somehow re-designed the batteries to fit the 18v charger, then I'd be back!
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline Spandex

  • Posts: 77
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2020, 03:30 PM »
I haven’t fitted the Jacobs chuck to my CXS for years - I have all the centrotec bits I need for that type of drill.

Apart from the light weight, balance and excellent right angle attachment, the thing I really like about the CXS is the fact it’s centrotec.. not because I think centrotec is amazing in itself, but because I have other Festool drills so I can instantly switch chucks/bits between all my drills when I’m working on something.

My CXS stays in my tool bag for general work, and if I’m doing something that I know will need more torque or hammer, I’ll bring the C18 or PDC too. I just can’t bring myself to carry the extra weight and bulk of an 18v tool around just on the off-chance I’ll need more clout.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 7394
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2020, 03:40 PM »
I'm a big fan of Milwaukee tools and between the corded & the cordless drills own over 15 of them. However the Achilles heel of the tools has always been their non-linear trigger speed controls. Like Raj said, they are speed adjustable in steps only.

There also seem to be service life issues with the speed controls. One of my M18 currently has the issue and will be brought back to the Milwaukee service center for speed control replacement.

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 491
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2020, 05:56 PM »
I'm a big fan of Milwaukee tools and between the corded & the cordless drills own over 15 of them. However the Achilles heel of the tools has always been their non-linear trigger speed controls. Like Raj said, they are speed adjustable in steps only.

There also seem to be service life issues with the speed controls. One of my M18 currently has the issue and will be brought back to the Milwaukee service center for speed control replacement.

Agree with most of you, and Cheese above here.
I would not hesitate to advise on the CXS. It has; very nice trigger control, it feels and operates very well in most hands, it’s slim, it has a short height and it’s light. It does lack a little in power compared to newer competitors.
From my experience the newer brushless Makita’s in the 10.8V CXT Range excels above the CXS.
I’ve had Bosch, Milwaukee and Metabo, but as Cheese says the non linear trigger control and lack of constant speed control is something other common makes other than Makita and Festool really miss out on, and this may even be more important on a drill used for finer work than a slugger for drilling holes.
What could benefit the CXS in brushless version, is; they could have made it a lot shorter, and it would have increased runtime - considerably. Brushed motors are not bad in any way, but these factors count. Shorter to have better reach, BL for run-time and most likely higher top speed as well.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Online vkumar

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Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2020, 05:59 PM »
@FestitaMakool do you have any specific model numbers on the Makita?
Vijay Kumar

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2402
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2020, 06:14 PM »
I'm like Cheese, have at least 15 Milwaukee's.  Seven 12v and 8-10 18v.  I the new installer set that lives in my service van while the CSX lives in my shop, along with C-18v.

Offline TwelvebyTwenty

  • Posts: 57
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2020, 06:25 PM »
New member here - hello all.

I've been running a CXS 2.6ah for about three years - almost didn't buy it because it isn't brushless. But honestly until I saw this thread (as a long time lurker), I had forgotten it isn't brushless and my overriding sentiment towards the tool is just how lovely it is to use regardless of what particular technology it utilises.

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 491
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2020, 07:32 PM »
@FestitaMakool do you have any specific model numbers on the Makita?

Hi, i couldn’t find the respective model numbers on the US site, but here’s from the UK site.
I have all three, the last one being a sub compact and running on LXT 18V batteries. It is available in 12V MAX CXT version as well. The middle one is their baby impact, but with almost same features as their 18V flagship. 1/2 the size and weight but plenty powerful enough.

I accidentally bought a CXS too, but wasn’t going to [embarassed] but for Centrotec use it’s brilliant. I use the regular chucked Makita 12/10.8V MAX the most though.

https://www.makitauk.com/product/df332dz
https://www.makitauk.com/product/td111dz

https://www.makitauk.com/product/ddf083z

“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline Sourwould

  • Posts: 110
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2020, 08:43 PM »
I have the 18v subcompact Makita. I don't love it, but it works well enough. Not enough power to drive a tapcon, which is a big downside for me. Mine has a lot of run-out and the Chuck is awful. The Chuck waits till you're at the top of the ladder to let go of the bit. At least do it before you get on the ladder. I think this drill is the one that's going to have me swear off plastic chucks forever.

I only have 5.0 ah batteries (since they're the same size as the 3.0 and 4.0) so the size and weight is about the same as the first Makita drill I got about ten years ago. I will say it was totally worth the price. I think it was $50-60 new for the bare tool. In my opinion, the main reason to get this drill would be if you already have the batteries.

As for brushed vs brushless, I think there's something to be said about the longevity of brushed motors. They're really simple, no computer brain, and deal with dirt and water well. My Makita impact will turn ten next year and works as well as the day I got it (used). It's had a hard life too. It's been on site with me for 7 years 5 days a week. I use the back of it and the battery in the base as a hammer relatively often, it gets used in the rain, has been dropped off second story roofs more than once. Got the original brushes in it.

I've seen several brushless drills melt down on site, always seems to be some computer issue. The brushed drills I've put down all had failed chucks and the screw holding the chucks on were too seized/stripped/mashed to replace the chucks.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Online vkumar

  • Posts: 508
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2020, 08:50 PM »
Thank you @Sourwould  for your review. It is quite helpful. Just goes to show there is no perfection combining ergonomics, longevity, power, and user control.  One has to compromise in one or more areas.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2020, 11:47 PM by vkumar »
Vijay Kumar

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4781
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2020, 09:43 PM »
Speed control.

Bought a Ryobi 16 gauge cordless nailer for a project and the best deal in batteries at the time was to buy a Ryobi hammer drill kit. I brought the drill with me to the project since there might be a need to put anchors in concrete but otherwise expected to use a nice new Makita drill.

The client had a crew of movers bringing in his office furniture which included an antique desk which wouldn’t pass through the door without the removal of at least two of the legs. As the only guy with tools it was up to me. Piece of cake I thought and scooted under to check it out. Turned out to be an eccentric oddball construction and the easiest way to get the legs off was to remove the entire apron and the drawer frame which meant removing about a dozen very old countersunk flat head slotted screws.

Tried the Makita and even in low gear just could not get the spindle to turn slowly enough to align with the slot in the screw. Doubly frustrated I got out the clunky cheap Ryobi hammer drill and was very pleasantly surprised at how slowly and smoothly it turned. Completely flipped my preconceptions about Makita and Ryobi, although the only other Ryobi tools I’ve bought are the 18 gauge brad gun and a hot glue gun.

Offline Bran077

  • Posts: 8
Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2020, 11:26 PM »
I’m just a hobbyist looking for something that’s a pleasure to use in my small shop.  Smooth and linear speed control would be a nice plus, like others have said, I’ve had issues overdriving fasteners with my milwaukee m12 drivers.

I do a lot of cabinet construction.

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 491
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2020, 04:28 AM »
For that kind of use, I think you would be very happy with the CXS.
I’m neither a professional that uses my drills all day day in day out. In that respect, the battery capacity is more than enough. You’ll probably find that you’ll use each drill to each task, because where one falls a bit short, another excels.
The smoothness of the CXS trigger and speed control will most likely make it 1st. choice when doing cabinetry.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 491
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #35 on: June 16, 2020, 04:47 AM »
I have the 18v subcompact Makita. I don't love it, but it works well enough. Not enough power to drive a tapcon, which is a big downside for me. Mine has a lot of run-out and the Chuck is awful. The Chuck waits till you're at the top of the ladder to let go of the bit. At least do it before you get on the ladder. I think this drill is the one that's going to have me swear off plastic chucks forever.

I only have 5.0 ah batteries (since they're the same size as the 3.0 and 4.0) so the size and weight is about the same as the first Makita drill I got about ten years ago. I will say it was totally worth the price. I think it was $50-60 new for the bare tool. In my opinion, the main reason to get this drill would be if you already have the batteries.

As for brushed vs brushless, I think there's something to be said about the longevity of brushed motors. They're really simple, no computer brain, and deal with dirt and water well. My Makita impact will turn ten next year and works as well as the day I got it (used). It's had a hard life too. It's been on site with me for 7 years 5 days a week. I use the back of it and the battery in the base as a hammer relatively often, it gets used in the rain, has been dropped off second story roofs more than once. Got the original brushes in it.

I've seen several brushless drills melt down on site, always seems to be some computer issue. The brushed drills I've put down all had failed chucks and the screw holding the chucks on were too seized/stripped/mashed to replace the chucks.

The sub compact is Makita’s answer to fitters that are complaining about having a second battery platform for a mounting drill. I don’t get it, because it’s when you have the same drill with much smaller battery and overall much smaller footprint it makes sense. I hav 3, 5 and 6Ah batteries for my Makita 18V, but bought a 2Ah for drilling, it’s superb for that use (with BL drills) you might look into that.
If the chuck wobbles, why not take it to a Makita service centre? Knowing Makita they’ll exchange it in a heartbeat. I’ve had a chuck and electronics exchanged with no questions asked. They agreed it was not up to their standard.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline Sourwould

  • Posts: 110
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2020, 07:40 AM »
For a hobbyist, the Makita would probably be a good drill with the small batteries. If you don't get a kit, pick up one of the big, green, old chargers. They seem to last forever. And for bonus points they play classical music when they're done charging.

Fastikamactool:

I kind of just assumed they were all like that. I've never dealt with a Makita service center. I think there's one like 8 hours away. I've been using the drill for nearly two years so I guess it hasn't stopped me working.

I'd be curious to know if we actually bought the same drill, or if I'm getting a cheaper version here in the US. It seems like Makita "value engineers" their Japanese tools for the US market and has them made in China. Or has a completely different tool designed for the US market, like with their nail guns. I have one Japanese made brad nailer and it's a completely different animal from what they sell at home depot. Americans are unwilling to pay prices that aren't subsidized by slave labor.

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 337
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2020, 08:10 AM »
Quote
It’s low on power compared to brushless models, however, if used as an installation tool, that shouldn’t matter much.  It’s when you push it to other tasks because it’s what you have hanging by your side that this becomes evident. And as cheese mentioned, the max RPM is noticeable when drilling.  In general, it’s showing it’s age,

This illustrates my general problem with CXS currently.   Yes it's a wonderful ergonomic package.  But lack of speed, torque and runtime absolutely matter on a cabinet installation site.  And while some don't see the need in a close quarters chuck, their opinion doesn't speak for everyone.  And if they did work in places other than their own home, they might then see a use for such.

There's clearly a lot of sentimentality here when guys here kid themselves that a motor replacement at 3x the cost of the same manuf.'s brushes is "just a bit more"  ::)  Most durable good's prices come down over their lifetime especially when they get no improvements.  CXS is just the opposite.  And I certainly can't blame TTS for standing pat when most guys here say they're fine with CXS as a brushed motor and it's comparatively low power and runtime.  There's no incentive to improve when your herd is content.  So why rock the boat , and shrink the owner's pie slice?

Online vkumar

  • Posts: 508
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2020, 12:33 PM »
@xedos I couldnt have said it better myself.
Vijay Kumar

Offline Spandex

  • Posts: 77
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2020, 01:10 PM »
There's clearly a lot of sentimentality here when guys here kid themselves that a motor replacement at 3x the cost of the same manuf.'s brushes is "just a bit more"  ::)  Most durable good's prices come down over their lifetime especially when they get no improvements.  CXS is just the opposite.  And I certainly can't blame TTS for standing pat when most guys here say they're fine with CXS as a brushed motor and it's comparatively low power and runtime.  There's no incentive to improve when your herd is content.  So why rock the boat , and shrink the owner's pie slice?
Well for me, it’s not about trying to justify the price difference or ‘kid myself’, but it’s something that will happen rarely (or not at all for some users) and its a cost that is bearable. If someone thinks the price of a new motor when the brushes wear out is enough to push them to a different drill then they’ll get no argument from me. But it’s not like brushless improves reliability, it just moves the failure point to the control electronics.

As for TTS not having any reason to upgrade because people on this forum are fine with brushed motors, I think that might be over estimating the weight this place carries. I think it’s actually pretty clear from Festools marketing direction that they’re very keen on getting new customers, even at the risk of annoying the old guard on here.

I suspect the reality is that Festool are simply devoting most of their time working on the expanding 18v range and a niche product like the CXS is bottom of the list because it’s not going to make them a huge amount of money even if it was upgraded to compete on specs with M12, etc. The only way Festool would move the CXS up the priority list is if they decided to create an expanded 10.8v range. I’d love them to do that, but I won’t hold my breath.

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 4046
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2020, 05:28 PM »
What are people's impressions of the Milwaukee M12 installer?  Was thinking about getting one, as I've run into a few occasions over the years where I could have used an offset chuck on the CXS, in tight spots where the T18 offset chuck wouldn't fit.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • AGC 18-115 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline Bran077

  • Posts: 8
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #41 on: June 16, 2020, 06:00 PM »
I’ve had quite a few m12 tools and have been happy with them for the most part.  I have not personally used the new installation driver, but have heard good things about it other than the position for the forward and reverse button on the top.

As others have said, my main complaint with the Milwaukee’s are their stepped trigger control.  It’s not exactly linear and, at least for me, leads to a tendency to slightly over drive fasteners.


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Offline hdv

  • Posts: 143
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2020, 06:32 PM »
I hope to receive my M12 installer's drill later this week. I'll post my impressions when I have had the chance to use it a bit.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2402
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2020, 07:04 PM »
I have the Milwaukee installers set and really like it.  It lives in my service van along with other 12v tools, impact, hammerdrill, recip, rotary, and oscillating tool.  The van also has my 18v Milwaukees, Surge, 1 1/8 rotary drill, grinder, right angle impact and 3/8" impact.  I cover so many jobs that all get used frequently, and does not cover my Fein and Metabo tools.  The Festools live in my shop.

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 2073
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2020, 08:12 PM »
I’m just a hobbyist looking for something that’s a pleasure to use in my small shop.  Smooth and linear speed control would be a nice plus, like others have said, I’ve had issues overdriving fasteners with my milwaukee m12 drivers.

I do a lot of cabinet construction.
It excels in this category. By far, this is the most used out of all my festools

Cheers. Bryan.


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People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 491
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #45 on: June 16, 2020, 08:16 PM »
What are people's impressions of the Milwaukee M12 installer?  Was thinking about getting one, as I've run into a few occasions over the years where I could have used an offset chuck on the CXS, in tight spots where the T18 offset chuck wouldn't fit.

I had one for two days, returned it. Reason was that the M12 battery made the whole thing a little more bulky than I liked. Also, I had hopes that Milwaukee had put a better speed control in it, a linear control with load compensated speed control, bearing in mind that it was an installers drill, but no. On the contrary to many others I did really like the rotation switch placement and feel though. Especially on an installation driver, where I found it very handy by doing some inside-cabinet-awkward-reachable screw driving. Cause when holding the driver in such situations you rarely hold it regularly by the handle, and on a regular rotation shifter more often I accidentally shifts rotation just by handling the driver.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline Bran077

  • Posts: 8
Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #46 on: June 27, 2020, 01:03 PM »
Well, if it helps anyone that was in the same boat, I decided to just go and buy the CXS. 

I won’t argue with anyone that says it’s been out for 10 years, and competitors have better value propositions.  It’s expensive for what it is, especially today.  It doesn’t come with an offset attachment and as far as I know there isn’t one available for anything other than the C18.  It might be a touch underpowered and could probably do with a brushless motor to better compete (though as a hobbyist I don’t really care).

All that said, it’s the best darn drill/driver I’ve ever used and I think I love the little dinosaur.  The smoothness of the trigger control is amazing.  It’s just fun to use.


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Offline grobkuschelig

  • Posts: 640
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #47 on: June 27, 2020, 01:42 PM »
...It doesn’t come with an offset attachment and as far as I know there isn’t one available for anything other than the C18...

Nice that you are happy with your purchase! Enjoy it!

The angle attachment does the „offset-job“ nicely. Just check for yourself how close you can get the angle attachment to the wall.

There was a „Toolbox Buzz“ review of the drivers, where they also rated the CXS down for the same point. In my opinion it is a big Plus, because you only need one attachment, not too. Less to loose and lug around...

I fumbled with the Milwaukee again today, when I was collecting some paint from the Hardware Store.
What a thick and uncomfortable handle. Not for me.

I will be ordering a new CXS and sell my old, to get a battery refresh. Other than that, perfect. :)

Offline Jim_in_PA

  • Posts: 132
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #48 on: June 27, 2020, 08:34 PM »
Yup...the little CSX is a "go to" tool for sure. In fact, I just ordered new, updated design batteries for mine today to beat the price increase.
----
ETS 150/3, Rotex 150, OF1010, OF1400, Trion PS 300, TDK-12, CT-22, MFT 1080, TS55, Domino XL DF 700, 8' track, (2) 55" tracks

SCM MiniMax S315WS, FS350, MM16, Camaster Stinger II SR-44 CNC

Offline Cypren

  • Posts: 35
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #49 on: June 27, 2020, 09:40 PM »
Probably the most significant use of the CXS for me -- something none of my other drill/drivers can do -- is that its incredibly precise and light trigger control lets me use it when working on delicate electronics, screws in plastic consumer parts and similar situations where over-torquing a screw even a little will cause immediate, permanent damage. I don't think I've ever used it for drilling -- I've got plenty of larger and more powerful drills for that -- but as a precision electric screwdriver, it's unbeatable.

Offline grobkuschelig

  • Posts: 640
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #50 on: July 03, 2020, 04:45 PM »
Put my money where my mouth is, today... :)



No regrets.

Offline Bran077

  • Posts: 8
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #51 on: July 03, 2020, 10:56 PM »
You should keep them both, I find myself wanting 2.  Ugh, it’s a slippery slope.


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Offline grobkuschelig

  • Posts: 640
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #52 on: July 04, 2020, 02:23 AM »
You should keep them both, I find myself wanting 2.  Ugh, it’s a slippery slope.


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Tempting, but no.

I usually keep the CXS for driving and if I need something in addition, I go for the C18 with the compact battery.

Offline Jim_in_PA

  • Posts: 132
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #53 on: July 04, 2020, 10:06 AM »
Put my money where my mouth is, today... :)



No regrets.

I'm honestly considering a second one as I use my CSX for most of the work when a D/D is required...but that includes pre-drilling/countersink and then installing the fasteners. For larger jobs, I'll employ my T12 or T15 type for the pre-drilling/countersink, but the weight is quite a bit more and joint pain is already what it is.
----
ETS 150/3, Rotex 150, OF1010, OF1400, Trion PS 300, TDK-12, CT-22, MFT 1080, TS55, Domino XL DF 700, 8' track, (2) 55" tracks

SCM MiniMax S315WS, FS350, MM16, Camaster Stinger II SR-44 CNC

Offline grobkuschelig

  • Posts: 640
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #54 on: July 04, 2020, 04:09 PM »
For anyone who is interested in the generational differences between the 1.3/1.5(same) and 2.6 Ah Versions:

The 2.6 Ah battery pushes the CXS up a little bit in the back. This makes the Bit closer to parallel to the ground. This is only caused by the battery. The tool itself is the same.

The only other difference I could identify is the LED light.
The newer version is a lot less “spotty” and has a wider field of light. New one pictured on the left.

Other than that, the new one is as good as the old was.


Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 491
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #55 on: July 04, 2020, 05:56 PM »
Pretty much same, same. Apart from way more even LED light - thankfully with gradual light falloff. I cannot stand or understand makes that makes “tunnel” light beams. Wether that’s a head light, pocket torch or tool light. LED Lenser was awful at this.

CXS/TXS have had sloooow evolution  [big grin]
- Now in a few years a brushless maybe. It would be slight, faster, shorter and have even lighter batteries with increased runtime. That may be too much at once  [scared] - Kidding! [big grin]
Maybe, as Makita: LED from two sides to even out the shadows  [cool]
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 491
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #56 on: July 06, 2020, 06:28 PM »
A tailored situation for the CXS appeared for me today.
I had to dismantle a shelf and casing to reveal water piping in the brand new caravan in order to upgrade the tap in the bathroom. Plastic pocket hole adaptors where used (by no means I think it ‘s either a neat or very practical solution) to secure a shelf and a front plate. It demanded a slim excenter adaptor and an angle adaptor (my Makita CXS was in fact short enough to do the job) - but I decided to try the CXS with the angle attachment. With a 50mm bit it worked perfect, and once again, a sensitive trigger is crucial - as it’s a one hand operation in a very narrow and deep workplace. You know... I could have used a screwdriver.. the one that you turn with your hand.. [big grin]
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”