Author Topic: Festool CSX in 2020  (Read 3307 times)

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Offline Sourwould

  • Posts: 110
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2020, 08:43 PM »
I have the 18v subcompact Makita. I don't love it, but it works well enough. Not enough power to drive a tapcon, which is a big downside for me. Mine has a lot of run-out and the Chuck is awful. The Chuck waits till you're at the top of the ladder to let go of the bit. At least do it before you get on the ladder. I think this drill is the one that's going to have me swear off plastic chucks forever.

I only have 5.0 ah batteries (since they're the same size as the 3.0 and 4.0) so the size and weight is about the same as the first Makita drill I got about ten years ago. I will say it was totally worth the price. I think it was $50-60 new for the bare tool. In my opinion, the main reason to get this drill would be if you already have the batteries.

As for brushed vs brushless, I think there's something to be said about the longevity of brushed motors. They're really simple, no computer brain, and deal with dirt and water well. My Makita impact will turn ten next year and works as well as the day I got it (used). It's had a hard life too. It's been on site with me for 7 years 5 days a week. I use the back of it and the battery in the base as a hammer relatively often, it gets used in the rain, has been dropped off second story roofs more than once. Got the original brushes in it.

I've seen several brushless drills melt down on site, always seems to be some computer issue. The brushed drills I've put down all had failed chucks and the screw holding the chucks on were too seized/stripped/mashed to replace the chucks.

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Offline vkumar

  • Posts: 504
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2020, 08:50 PM »
Thank you @Sourwould  for your review. It is quite helpful. Just goes to show there is no perfection combining ergonomics, longevity, power, and user control.  One has to compromise in one or more areas.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2020, 11:47 PM by vkumar »
Vijay Kumar

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4769
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2020, 09:43 PM »
Speed control.

Bought a Ryobi 16 gauge cordless nailer for a project and the best deal in batteries at the time was to buy a Ryobi hammer drill kit. I brought the drill with me to the project since there might be a need to put anchors in concrete but otherwise expected to use a nice new Makita drill.

The client had a crew of movers bringing in his office furniture which included an antique desk which wouldn’t pass through the door without the removal of at least two of the legs. As the only guy with tools it was up to me. Piece of cake I thought and scooted under to check it out. Turned out to be an eccentric oddball construction and the easiest way to get the legs off was to remove the entire apron and the drawer frame which meant removing about a dozen very old countersunk flat head slotted screws.

Tried the Makita and even in low gear just could not get the spindle to turn slowly enough to align with the slot in the screw. Doubly frustrated I got out the clunky cheap Ryobi hammer drill and was very pleasantly surprised at how slowly and smoothly it turned. Completely flipped my preconceptions about Makita and Ryobi, although the only other Ryobi tools I’ve bought are the 18 gauge brad gun and a hot glue gun.

Offline Bran077

  • Posts: 8
Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2020, 11:26 PM »
I’m just a hobbyist looking for something that’s a pleasure to use in my small shop.  Smooth and linear speed control would be a nice plus, like others have said, I’ve had issues overdriving fasteners with my milwaukee m12 drivers.

I do a lot of cabinet construction.

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 486
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2020, 04:28 AM »
For that kind of use, I think you would be very happy with the CXS.
I’m neither a professional that uses my drills all day day in day out. In that respect, the battery capacity is more than enough. You’ll probably find that you’ll use each drill to each task, because where one falls a bit short, another excels.
The smoothness of the CXS trigger and speed control will most likely make it 1st. choice when doing cabinetry.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 486
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #35 on: June 16, 2020, 04:47 AM »
I have the 18v subcompact Makita. I don't love it, but it works well enough. Not enough power to drive a tapcon, which is a big downside for me. Mine has a lot of run-out and the Chuck is awful. The Chuck waits till you're at the top of the ladder to let go of the bit. At least do it before you get on the ladder. I think this drill is the one that's going to have me swear off plastic chucks forever.

I only have 5.0 ah batteries (since they're the same size as the 3.0 and 4.0) so the size and weight is about the same as the first Makita drill I got about ten years ago. I will say it was totally worth the price. I think it was $50-60 new for the bare tool. In my opinion, the main reason to get this drill would be if you already have the batteries.

As for brushed vs brushless, I think there's something to be said about the longevity of brushed motors. They're really simple, no computer brain, and deal with dirt and water well. My Makita impact will turn ten next year and works as well as the day I got it (used). It's had a hard life too. It's been on site with me for 7 years 5 days a week. I use the back of it and the battery in the base as a hammer relatively often, it gets used in the rain, has been dropped off second story roofs more than once. Got the original brushes in it.

I've seen several brushless drills melt down on site, always seems to be some computer issue. The brushed drills I've put down all had failed chucks and the screw holding the chucks on were too seized/stripped/mashed to replace the chucks.

The sub compact is Makita’s answer to fitters that are complaining about having a second battery platform for a mounting drill. I don’t get it, because it’s when you have the same drill with much smaller battery and overall much smaller footprint it makes sense. I hav 3, 5 and 6Ah batteries for my Makita 18V, but bought a 2Ah for drilling, it’s superb for that use (with BL drills) you might look into that.
If the chuck wobbles, why not take it to a Makita service centre? Knowing Makita they’ll exchange it in a heartbeat. I’ve had a chuck and electronics exchanged with no questions asked. They agreed it was not up to their standard.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline Sourwould

  • Posts: 110
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2020, 07:40 AM »
For a hobbyist, the Makita would probably be a good drill with the small batteries. If you don't get a kit, pick up one of the big, green, old chargers. They seem to last forever. And for bonus points they play classical music when they're done charging.

Fastikamactool:

I kind of just assumed they were all like that. I've never dealt with a Makita service center. I think there's one like 8 hours away. I've been using the drill for nearly two years so I guess it hasn't stopped me working.

I'd be curious to know if we actually bought the same drill, or if I'm getting a cheaper version here in the US. It seems like Makita "value engineers" their Japanese tools for the US market and has them made in China. Or has a completely different tool designed for the US market, like with their nail guns. I have one Japanese made brad nailer and it's a completely different animal from what they sell at home depot. Americans are unwilling to pay prices that aren't subsidized by slave labor.

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 333
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2020, 08:10 AM »
Quote
It’s low on power compared to brushless models, however, if used as an installation tool, that shouldn’t matter much.  It’s when you push it to other tasks because it’s what you have hanging by your side that this becomes evident. And as cheese mentioned, the max RPM is noticeable when drilling.  In general, it’s showing it’s age,

This illustrates my general problem with CXS currently.   Yes it's a wonderful ergonomic package.  But lack of speed, torque and runtime absolutely matter on a cabinet installation site.  And while some don't see the need in a close quarters chuck, their opinion doesn't speak for everyone.  And if they did work in places other than their own home, they might then see a use for such.

There's clearly a lot of sentimentality here when guys here kid themselves that a motor replacement at 3x the cost of the same manuf.'s brushes is "just a bit more"  ::)  Most durable good's prices come down over their lifetime especially when they get no improvements.  CXS is just the opposite.  And I certainly can't blame TTS for standing pat when most guys here say they're fine with CXS as a brushed motor and it's comparatively low power and runtime.  There's no incentive to improve when your herd is content.  So why rock the boat , and shrink the owner's pie slice?

Offline vkumar

  • Posts: 504
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2020, 12:33 PM »
@xedos I couldnt have said it better myself.
Vijay Kumar

Online Spandex

  • Posts: 77
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2020, 01:10 PM »
There's clearly a lot of sentimentality here when guys here kid themselves that a motor replacement at 3x the cost of the same manuf.'s brushes is "just a bit more"  ::)  Most durable good's prices come down over their lifetime especially when they get no improvements.  CXS is just the opposite.  And I certainly can't blame TTS for standing pat when most guys here say they're fine with CXS as a brushed motor and it's comparatively low power and runtime.  There's no incentive to improve when your herd is content.  So why rock the boat , and shrink the owner's pie slice?
Well for me, it’s not about trying to justify the price difference or ‘kid myself’, but it’s something that will happen rarely (or not at all for some users) and its a cost that is bearable. If someone thinks the price of a new motor when the brushes wear out is enough to push them to a different drill then they’ll get no argument from me. But it’s not like brushless improves reliability, it just moves the failure point to the control electronics.

As for TTS not having any reason to upgrade because people on this forum are fine with brushed motors, I think that might be over estimating the weight this place carries. I think it’s actually pretty clear from Festools marketing direction that they’re very keen on getting new customers, even at the risk of annoying the old guard on here.

I suspect the reality is that Festool are simply devoting most of their time working on the expanding 18v range and a niche product like the CXS is bottom of the list because it’s not going to make them a huge amount of money even if it was upgraded to compete on specs with M12, etc. The only way Festool would move the CXS up the priority list is if they decided to create an expanded 10.8v range. I’d love them to do that, but I won’t hold my breath.

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 4032
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2020, 05:28 PM »
What are people's impressions of the Milwaukee M12 installer?  Was thinking about getting one, as I've run into a few occasions over the years where I could have used an offset chuck on the CXS, in tight spots where the T18 offset chuck wouldn't fit.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • AGC 18-115 • CT 26 w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • MFT/3

Offline Bran077

  • Posts: 8
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #41 on: June 16, 2020, 06:00 PM »
I’ve had quite a few m12 tools and have been happy with them for the most part.  I have not personally used the new installation driver, but have heard good things about it other than the position for the forward and reverse button on the top.

As others have said, my main complaint with the Milwaukee’s are their stepped trigger control.  It’s not exactly linear and, at least for me, leads to a tendency to slightly over drive fasteners.


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Offline hdv

  • Posts: 140
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2020, 06:32 PM »
I hope to receive my M12 installer's drill later this week. I'll post my impressions when I have had the chance to use it a bit.

Online rst

  • Posts: 2397
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2020, 07:04 PM »
I have the Milwaukee installers set and really like it.  It lives in my service van along with other 12v tools, impact, hammerdrill, recip, rotary, and oscillating tool.  The van also has my 18v Milwaukees, Surge, 1 1/8 rotary drill, grinder, right angle impact and 3/8" impact.  I cover so many jobs that all get used frequently, and does not cover my Fein and Metabo tools.  The Festools live in my shop.

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 2073
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2020, 08:12 PM »
I’m just a hobbyist looking for something that’s a pleasure to use in my small shop.  Smooth and linear speed control would be a nice plus, like others have said, I’ve had issues overdriving fasteners with my milwaukee m12 drivers.

I do a lot of cabinet construction.
It excels in this category. By far, this is the most used out of all my festools

Cheers. Bryan.


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People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 486
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #45 on: June 16, 2020, 08:16 PM »
What are people's impressions of the Milwaukee M12 installer?  Was thinking about getting one, as I've run into a few occasions over the years where I could have used an offset chuck on the CXS, in tight spots where the T18 offset chuck wouldn't fit.

I had one for two days, returned it. Reason was that the M12 battery made the whole thing a little more bulky than I liked. Also, I had hopes that Milwaukee had put a better speed control in it, a linear control with load compensated speed control, bearing in mind that it was an installers drill, but no. On the contrary to many others I did really like the rotation switch placement and feel though. Especially on an installation driver, where I found it very handy by doing some inside-cabinet-awkward-reachable screw driving. Cause when holding the driver in such situations you rarely hold it regularly by the handle, and on a regular rotation shifter more often I accidentally shifts rotation just by handling the driver.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline Bran077

  • Posts: 8
Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #46 on: June 27, 2020, 01:03 PM »
Well, if it helps anyone that was in the same boat, I decided to just go and buy the CXS. 

I won’t argue with anyone that says it’s been out for 10 years, and competitors have better value propositions.  It’s expensive for what it is, especially today.  It doesn’t come with an offset attachment and as far as I know there isn’t one available for anything other than the C18.  It might be a touch underpowered and could probably do with a brushless motor to better compete (though as a hobbyist I don’t really care).

All that said, it’s the best darn drill/driver I’ve ever used and I think I love the little dinosaur.  The smoothness of the trigger control is amazing.  It’s just fun to use.


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Offline grobkuschelig

  • Posts: 634
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #47 on: June 27, 2020, 01:42 PM »
...It doesn’t come with an offset attachment and as far as I know there isn’t one available for anything other than the C18...

Nice that you are happy with your purchase! Enjoy it!

The angle attachment does the „offset-job“ nicely. Just check for yourself how close you can get the angle attachment to the wall.

There was a „Toolbox Buzz“ review of the drivers, where they also rated the CXS down for the same point. In my opinion it is a big Plus, because you only need one attachment, not too. Less to loose and lug around...

I fumbled with the Milwaukee again today, when I was collecting some paint from the Hardware Store.
What a thick and uncomfortable handle. Not for me.

I will be ordering a new CXS and sell my old, to get a battery refresh. Other than that, perfect. :)

Offline Jim_in_PA

  • Posts: 131
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #48 on: June 27, 2020, 08:34 PM »
Yup...the little CSX is a "go to" tool for sure. In fact, I just ordered new, updated design batteries for mine today to beat the price increase.
----
ETS 150/3, Rotex 150, OF1010, OF1400, Trion PS 300, TDK-12, CT-22, MFT 1080, TS55, Domino XL DF 700, 8' track, (2) 55" tracks

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Offline Cypren

  • Posts: 31
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #49 on: June 27, 2020, 09:40 PM »
Probably the most significant use of the CXS for me -- something none of my other drill/drivers can do -- is that its incredibly precise and light trigger control lets me use it when working on delicate electronics, screws in plastic consumer parts and similar situations where over-torquing a screw even a little will cause immediate, permanent damage. I don't think I've ever used it for drilling -- I've got plenty of larger and more powerful drills for that -- but as a precision electric screwdriver, it's unbeatable.

Offline grobkuschelig

  • Posts: 634
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #50 on: July 03, 2020, 04:45 PM »
Put my money where my mouth is, today... :)



No regrets.

Offline Bran077

  • Posts: 8
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #51 on: July 03, 2020, 10:56 PM »
You should keep them both, I find myself wanting 2.  Ugh, it’s a slippery slope.


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Offline grobkuschelig

  • Posts: 634
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #52 on: Yesterday at 02:23 AM »
You should keep them both, I find myself wanting 2.  Ugh, it’s a slippery slope.


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Tempting, but no.

I usually keep the CXS for driving and if I need something in addition, I go for the C18 with the compact battery.

Offline Jim_in_PA

  • Posts: 131
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #53 on: Yesterday at 10:06 AM »
Put my money where my mouth is, today... :)



No regrets.

I'm honestly considering a second one as I use my CSX for most of the work when a D/D is required...but that includes pre-drilling/countersink and then installing the fasteners. For larger jobs, I'll employ my T12 or T15 type for the pre-drilling/countersink, but the weight is quite a bit more and joint pain is already what it is.
----
ETS 150/3, Rotex 150, OF1010, OF1400, Trion PS 300, TDK-12, CT-22, MFT 1080, TS55, Domino XL DF 700, 8' track, (2) 55" tracks

SCM MiniMax S315WS, FS350, MM16, Camaster Stinger II SR-44 CNC

Offline grobkuschelig

  • Posts: 634
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #54 on: Yesterday at 04:09 PM »
For anyone who is interested in the generational differences between the 1.3/1.5(same) and 2.6 Ah Versions:

The 2.6 Ah battery pushes the CXS up a little bit in the back. This makes the Bit closer to parallel to the ground. This is only caused by the battery. The tool itself is the same.

The only other difference I could identify is the LED light.
The newer version is a lot less “spotty” and has a wider field of light. New one pictured on the left.

Other than that, the new one is as good as the old was.


Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 486
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #55 on: Yesterday at 05:56 PM »
Pretty much same, same. Apart from way more even LED light - thankfully with gradual light falloff. I cannot stand or understand makes that makes “tunnel” light beams. Wether that’s a head light, pocket torch or tool light. LED Lenser was awful at this.

CXS/TXS have had sloooow evolution  [big grin]
- Now in a few years a brushless maybe. It would be slight, faster, shorter and have even lighter batteries with increased runtime. That may be too much at once  [scared] - Kidding! [big grin]
Maybe, as Makita: LED from two sides to even out the shadows  [cool]
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”