Author Topic: Festool CSX in 2020  (Read 3296 times)

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Offline Bran077

  • Posts: 8
Festool CSX in 2020
« on: June 14, 2020, 09:32 PM »
Has the tool changed at all since it was introduced?  Is it still the installation drill/driver to own now that it has competition from Milwaukee and Bosch?  Just curious, I’m not invested in any particular system.

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Offline vkumar

  • Posts: 504
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2020, 09:42 PM »
Other than the higher capacity batteries they introduced about 3 years ago, nothing has changed,  No brushless motor for example.
Vijay Kumar

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 333
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2020, 10:01 PM »
This is but one example where Festool lags behind in the battery tool world.

Even lowly Ryobi has brushless motors in a sub $100 drill.   No excuse really for FT to have not "improved" theirs -or- to offer other tools that run on the same battery.

Offline grobkuschelig

  • Posts: 634
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2020, 03:13 AM »
I can see the point of wanting the cool new „brushless“ but I have been using my CXS since 2013 and it is still going strong and I love it.
I am contemplating purchasing a new and selling the old to get hold of the newer batteries, but that’s about it.
I looked at the „competition“ but I love the way the CXS handles so much that in my hand, nothing comes close. :)

Offline Spandex

  • Posts: 77
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2020, 04:44 AM »
Indeed... I am absolutely sure that a modern, brushless version of the CXS would be more powerful than the current model, but equally, I never find myself using the current model and wishing it was better.

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1851
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2020, 05:18 AM »
Indeed... I am absolutely sure that a modern, brushless version of the CXS would be more powerful than the current model, but equally, I never find myself using the current model and wishing it was better.

[thumbs up]

This. I sold my CXS and purchased the updated model with the new battery format. It's a great drill and I've never wished it to be anything other than it is. As @Spandex notes, it doesn't need to be anything more.

Offline capww8

  • Posts: 33
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2020, 09:03 AM »
I have really liked the Milwaukee assembly driver - bought immediately at launch.


Offline morts10n

  • Posts: 252
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2020, 09:12 AM »
I have 2 TSX and I couldnt tell you if they are the updated ones or not. What is the difference in batteries?

Offline Jim_in_PA

  • Posts: 131
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2020, 09:13 AM »
I can see the point of wanting the cool new „brushless“ but I have been using my CXS since 2013 and it is still going strong and I love it.
I am contemplating purchasing a new and selling the old to get hold of the newer batteries, but that’s about it.
I looked at the „competition“ but I love the way the CXS handles so much that in my hand, nothing comes close. :)

Just buy the batteries...they are compatible, AFAIK. I'm about to do that myself.
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Offline PeterK

  • Posts: 1020
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2020, 10:09 AM »
Had my CSX since they were introduced. Purchased the higher capacity batteries when they came out. Highly recommend the bigger batteries for longer run time. Totally love this drill as is so light weight, ergonomically perfect for me, easy to carry on my belt. It gets probably 98% of my drill use. Has more power than I expected. Can use the larger drill chucks of the bigger Festool drills if need to fit a larger drill bit.

Offline grobkuschelig

  • Posts: 634
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2020, 11:24 AM »
I have 2 TSX and I couldnt tell you if they are the updated ones or not. What is the difference in batteries?
With the TXS you are already on the new batteries.

The old CXS has batteries (1.5Ah) that went up into the handle...

Offline vkumar

  • Posts: 504
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2020, 11:52 AM »
Indeed... I am absolutely sure that a modern, brushless version of the CXS would be more powerful than the current model, but equally, I never find myself using the current model and wishing it was better.

[thumbs up]

This. I sold my CXS and purchased the updated model with the new battery format. It's a great drill and I've never wished it to be anything other than it is. As @Spandex notes, it doesn't need to be anything more.

I hear horror stories about having to replace brushes requiring a total disassembly of the unit, not as simple as popping in the brushes like many other drills. This is why a brushless would be great.
Vijay Kumar

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 7367
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2020, 12:01 PM »
I have 2 TSX and I couldnt tell you if they are the updated ones or not. What is the difference in batteries?

Original 1.5Ah on the left, newer 2.6Ah on the right. What's also nice is that the base of the newer battery is wider so it's less likely to fall over.

I think Festool SHOULD upgrade the CXS, it's getting long in the tooth.  A brushless motor would increase the run time, that'd be a major improvement.

Also, I've never been happy with the maximum speed of 1300 rpm when using small drill bits (under 1/8" diameter) , those need to be spun at closer to 2000 rpm.

« Last Edit: June 15, 2020, 12:04 PM by Cheese »

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1954
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2020, 12:03 PM »
@vkumar Its not too bad.  According to the thread below, the entire motor is replaced, but it’s reasonably inexpensive and easy.

https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/help-wanted-how-to-replace-brushes-on-the-cxs/
-Raj

Offline vkumar

  • Posts: 504
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2020, 12:08 PM »
@vkumar Its not too bad.  According to the thread below, the entire motor is replaced, but it’s reasonably inexpensive and easy.

https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-problems/help-wanted-how-to-replace-brushes-on-the-cxs/
In that article they say that a motor swap was necessary and it cost as much  as brushes would cost. I find that hard to believe.
Vijay Kumar

Offline Spandex

  • Posts: 77
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2020, 12:36 PM »
To be fair, it actually says “not much more than the brushes themselves would have cost”

I’ve swapped the motor in an old CXS. It wasn’t particularly difficult and the motor was relatively cheap. Obviously brushes would be cheaper, and brushless would remove the requirement entirely.

Offline Bran077

  • Posts: 8
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2020, 12:47 PM »
All this said, does the Festool offer any benefits over its competitors?  Honestly I’m not too worried about a brushed motor even if it SHOULD be updated by now.  I believe the Bosch FlexiClick is still brushed...incidentally.  By the time I reach runtime on a brushed motor it’ll be time to buy another one anyway.


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Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1295
  • formerly @the_black_tie_diyer
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2020, 01:31 PM »
Hi!

I can't speak about availability in NA, but Bosch's 10.8/12V FC is available as brushless by now. Although they introduced it as brushed model.

Speaking of the CXS. I love mine. I still think it has the best angle attachment available, and given the size of it - there is imho no need for any other attachments - some claim there is.

No one really knows what Festool is working on or not, but - at the time of this post - it's still Festool's one and only 10.8/12V tool and the batteries aren't useful on anything but the drill. And personally I don't see Festool ever offering a range of 10.8/12V tools that cold compete (in terms of the range of tool types offered!) with the already mentioned competitors.

Would >> I << buy it again? Yes, in a heart beat. I love it. Would I "upgrade" it to brushless, more RPM (maybe a 3 gear drive ...) - probably.

If you want to buy a lightweight, more than powerful enough, little drill/driver in a neat package: buy it.

If you want a 10.8/12V "Platform" - don't buy it. Or buy it and buy also into a second battery system.

To me all that stuff doesn't matter. I buy the tools I like, and with todays overall battery life and capacity, I never run into any sort of trouble. But I'm also not on the road everyday. And when I use certain tools extensively, I notice and buy another spare battery or two. I really don't care.

At some point in future I will be removing a suspended ceiling that was put in in the 70ties. All slotted screws. I can't wait to put my hand through the CXS's C handle and remove the screws and not loosing grip on the drill when taking & handing down the modules. Plus it is so lightweight, I won't suffer from fatigue in the evening.

Tools are more than just brushless, max. speed, max. torque.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline vkumar

  • Posts: 504
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2020, 01:38 PM »
All this said, does the Festool offer any benefits over its competitors?  Honestly I’m not too worried about a brushed motor even if it SHOULD be updated by now.  I believe the Bosch FlexiClick is still brushed...incidentally.  By the time I reach runtime on a brushed motor it’ll be time to buy another one anyway.


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Bosch GSR12V-300FCB22 is the 12V brushless model offered at the same price as the Milwaukee equivalent.
Vijay Kumar

Offline grobkuschelig

  • Posts: 634
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2020, 01:50 PM »
Tools are more than just brushless, max. speed, max. torque.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Amen to that! Could not agree more. :)

Offline rmhinden

  • Posts: 307
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2020, 02:27 PM »
I am very happy with my CXS, it's my favorite cordless drill.   Probably made better since I have a Centrotec Installers Set

I also have a drill press and two old Makita drills, I only use the latter if I need more power, but that doesn't happen very often.    I continue to be surprised about how powerful the CXS is given its size and weight.

I would seriously consider buying an improved version if it was available.

Bob

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1954
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2020, 02:46 PM »
All this said, does the Festool offer any benefits over its competitors?  Honestly I’m not too worried about a brushed motor even if it SHOULD be updated by now.  I believe the Bosch FlexiClick is still brushed...incidentally.  By the time I reach runtime on a brushed motor it’ll be time to buy another one anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The differences are subtle.  So it so it depends on your needs. 

Festool pros - very slim body, enough that the need for an offset chuck is almost unnecessary (for really tight corners, use the 90 degree chuck), excellent trigger control.  The centrotec chuck is a pro and a con.  It’s lightweight and the balance of the drill with that chuck makes it the best of breed imho.  But adopting the centrotec system completely is expensive and impossible.  The Jacobs chuck won’t be far behind when you don’t have the right centrotec but/drill on hand.  Cons - It’s low on power compared to brushless models, however, if used as an installation tool, that shouldn’t matter much.  It’s when you push it to other tasks because it’s what you have hanging by your side that this becomes evident. And as cheese mentioned, the max RPM is noticeable when drilling.  In general, it’s showing it’s age, but I still like it and would replace it with another today if cost was not a factor.

Milwaukee - better battery life, particularly if you’re using the 3ah compact batteries, more power.  M12 compatible ecosystem of tools (compared to the Festool ecosystem of one tool).

Bosch - don’t know, but I‘ve read the trigger control is good.  The body is a bit chubby compared to the festool.  You can get screaming deals on these if you can wait.  $100-120 isn’t uncommon when Amazon put them on sale once or twice a year.

I would add that every Milwaukee drill and impact driver I own (M12 and M18) have a trigger that wants to actuate in defined “steps” and they ramp up fast.  So the trigger control is decidedly bad when you’re looking for precision.  In many cases it doesn’t matter, however with this tool, I would say it’s something you should pay attention to.  If you can’t test it in store, find a retailer that has a generous return policy.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2020, 02:50 PM by RKA »
-Raj

Offline mrB

  • Posts: 712
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2020, 03:27 PM »
The CXS is wonderful, but because there was practically zero jobs I could risk taking only the CXS I wondered why I bothered with it when I love my T18 compact so much..  Eventually sold it to fund another tool.

If festool either gave it more power and/or somehow re-designed the batteries to fit the 18v charger, then I'd be back!
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline Spandex

  • Posts: 77
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2020, 03:30 PM »
I haven’t fitted the Jacobs chuck to my CXS for years - I have all the centrotec bits I need for that type of drill.

Apart from the light weight, balance and excellent right angle attachment, the thing I really like about the CXS is the fact it’s centrotec.. not because I think centrotec is amazing in itself, but because I have other Festool drills so I can instantly switch chucks/bits between all my drills when I’m working on something.

My CXS stays in my tool bag for general work, and if I’m doing something that I know will need more torque or hammer, I’ll bring the C18 or PDC too. I just can’t bring myself to carry the extra weight and bulk of an 18v tool around just on the off-chance I’ll need more clout.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 7367
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2020, 03:40 PM »
I'm a big fan of Milwaukee tools and between the corded & the cordless drills own over 15 of them. However the Achilles heel of the tools has always been their non-linear trigger speed controls. Like Raj said, they are speed adjustable in steps only.

There also seem to be service life issues with the speed controls. One of my M18 currently has the issue and will be brought back to the Milwaukee service center for speed control replacement.

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 486
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2020, 05:56 PM »
I'm a big fan of Milwaukee tools and between the corded & the cordless drills own over 15 of them. However the Achilles heel of the tools has always been their non-linear trigger speed controls. Like Raj said, they are speed adjustable in steps only.

There also seem to be service life issues with the speed controls. One of my M18 currently has the issue and will be brought back to the Milwaukee service center for speed control replacement.

Agree with most of you, and Cheese above here.
I would not hesitate to advise on the CXS. It has; very nice trigger control, it feels and operates very well in most hands, it’s slim, it has a short height and it’s light. It does lack a little in power compared to newer competitors.
From my experience the newer brushless Makita’s in the 10.8V CXT Range excels above the CXS.
I’ve had Bosch, Milwaukee and Metabo, but as Cheese says the non linear trigger control and lack of constant speed control is something other common makes other than Makita and Festool really miss out on, and this may even be more important on a drill used for finer work than a slugger for drilling holes.
What could benefit the CXS in brushless version, is; they could have made it a lot shorter, and it would have increased runtime - considerably. Brushed motors are not bad in any way, but these factors count. Shorter to have better reach, BL for run-time and most likely higher top speed as well.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline vkumar

  • Posts: 504
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2020, 05:59 PM »
@FestitaMakool do you have any specific model numbers on the Makita?
Vijay Kumar

Online rst

  • Posts: 2397
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2020, 06:14 PM »
I'm like Cheese, have at least 15 Milwaukee's.  Seven 12v and 8-10 18v.  I the new installer set that lives in my service van while the CSX lives in my shop, along with C-18v.

Offline TwelvebyTwenty

  • Posts: 36
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2020, 06:25 PM »
New member here - hello all.

I've been running a CXS 2.6ah for about three years - almost didn't buy it because it isn't brushless. But honestly until I saw this thread (as a long time lurker), I had forgotten it isn't brushless and my overriding sentiment towards the tool is just how lovely it is to use regardless of what particular technology it utilises.

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 486
Re: Festool CSX in 2020
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2020, 07:32 PM »
@FestitaMakool do you have any specific model numbers on the Makita?

Hi, i couldn’t find the respective model numbers on the US site, but here’s from the UK site.
I have all three, the last one being a sub compact and running on LXT 18V batteries. It is available in 12V MAX CXT version as well. The middle one is their baby impact, but with almost same features as their 18V flagship. 1/2 the size and weight but plenty powerful enough.

I accidentally bought a CXS too, but wasn’t going to [embarassed] but for Centrotec use it’s brilliant. I use the regular chucked Makita 12/10.8V MAX the most though.

https://www.makitauk.com/product/df332dz
https://www.makitauk.com/product/td111dz

https://www.makitauk.com/product/ddf083z

“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”