Author Topic: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw  (Read 13580 times)

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Offline Hale1960

  • Posts: 3
    • Mungo and Co
Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« on: March 12, 2023, 06:49 AM »
Hello,

I recently bought a CSC SYS 50 table saw and must say I’m really pleased. I have a slight issue with the cross cut fence, not in its quality or accuracy but the lack repeat stops. Has anyone made a modification. I am also looking for a wider kerf blade to cut kumiko strips, any thoughts?

To help with this I am making a auxiliary fence and a Fritz and Franz jig for the saw. When finished I’ll make the drawings available.

Incidentally I have been looking for a small, accurate saw to replace my old Jet saw after downsizing my workshop. I will let you know how this goes in a few months!

Regards,
Hal
Hal Eccles - Mungo and Co

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Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2023, 07:11 AM »
Welcome to the FOG!

With the saw so recently introduced I would imagine that you might have to experiment some.  Looking at the miter gauge on the Festool.uk ekat website it looks like you could possibly make something that goes up and over and evenly uses the slots on the back for fastening.  That would take some thinking to get around the mounting head, but making some blocks with offsets on the work side might be an idea.



If you try, please post back with pictures!

Peter

Offline Hale1960

  • Posts: 3
    • Mungo and Co
Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2023, 07:56 AM »
Thanks Peter!
Hal Eccles - Mungo and Co

Offline Bencan

  • Posts: 46
Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2023, 04:28 PM »
Ya I’d be really interested in hearing more about real world usage of the saw. Congrats on the purchase and enjoy


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Offline woodferret

  • Posts: 537
Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2023, 05:17 PM »
I'd be interested in see the Fritz and Franz jig on such a small table when you get that worked out.  I'm leaning heavily towards getting the CSC50 myself.

Offline Hale1960

  • Posts: 3
    • Mungo and Co
Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2023, 06:19 AM »
Thanks for the replies!

So far I’m very impressed with the saw, I’ve been cutting 18mm Baltic birch ply with no problem (not full sheets). I’m quite lucky that there is a good merchant near by that will cut sheet materials down for a reasonable price (much easier than breaking down with a track saw in a small space).

I was a little surprised how quickly the batteries went down from the first charge but they do recharge quite quickly, maybe battery life will improve with use.

I’m doing quite a bit of box making and the CSC is perfect for this and I think a small Fritz and Franz jig will really benefit with safe accurate cuts. Prototype one of the jig is on its way.

Like most things there are compromises with this saw, I may have a play with auxiliary fences for wider rip cuts but I think with my very limited sized shop the saw is a good (although expensive) choice. Another benefit is it’s portability.
Hal Eccles - Mungo and Co

Offline Jim_in_PA

  • Posts: 331
Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2023, 10:20 AM »
While this particular tool isn't a fit for me, as a sliding table saw owner, I truly appreciate what Festool did with this great machine. It brings a lot of the "why I own a slider" to a smaller, compact form factor that will absolutely kick things up for folks who need/want the size AND the features. If I had to do a serious downsize to a tiny shop, this thing would be on my list for sure. (although I'd prefer to be able to work plugged in rather than on batteries)
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Offline squall_line

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Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2023, 04:01 PM »
I was a little surprised how quickly the batteries went down from the first charge but they do recharge quite quickly, maybe battery life will improve with use.

I have a feeling that, like many other things when switching from corded to cordless, there's also a workflow adjustment that helps with battery life, too (remembering to turn off the saw between cuts, etc).

Offline ElectricFeet

  • Posts: 216
Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2023, 05:23 PM »
I have a slight issue with the cross cut fence, not in its quality or accuracy but the lack repeat stops.
I’ve only owned mine for a couple of days (!), but the mitre fence is my only disappointment so far. I wish it had more clamping / stop options too. It seems like the one afterthought. I had hoped that the attachment points would accept a 2040 with a simple change of the nut, but it’s not compatible unfortunately (unless you slice a bit off the bottom of the 2040 — I’m tempted!).

In the short term, I’ll be using the the rip fence for stops. If you undo the knob, part of the fence slides forward in front of the blade (leaving space behind it) allowing you to use it as a stop, without the risk of material being trapped / getting kickback. Would that work for you? Or am I missing something in your question?

I am also looking for a wider kerf blade to cut kumiko strips, any thoughts?
:-\ The manual seems pretty intransigent on blade dimensions — even specifying that the saw plate thickness has to be 1.2mm and the kerf has to be 1.8mm (unlike, for example, the TSC 55K, which allows 1.1-1.4mm for the plate and the HKC 55, which allows up to 2.2mm for the kerf). It doesn’t look like there’s an official solution for that.

To help with this I am making a auxiliary fence and a Fritz and Franz jig for the saw.
Thanks for this [smile] The Fritz and Franz jig was news to me, as I’ve never had a sliding table before.

If I were to make one for the CSC SYS 50, I think I would make use of the clamping groove rather than use the mitre fence. It’s effectively a second slot and if both pieces of the jig use both slots — with the forward one clamped in the clamping groove* — it would be very stable and could be made to a very high level of precision/accuracy.

* maybe with a t-bolt and knob, rather than a clamp.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 1289
Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2023, 08:02 PM »
The whole saw is a compromise since the primary goal was to fit it in a systainer. Of course the fence and miter bar are going to be crappy just as they are for all small portable table saws and given it uses a battery there will be blade restrictions and limited run time. the digital height and angle setting features are very nice and the SawStop technology is a requirement if safety is paramount. There have to be big gives as you go smaller on almost anything.

Offline ElectricFeet

  • Posts: 216
Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2023, 10:24 AM »
The whole saw is a compromise since the primary goal was to fit it in a systainer. Of course the fence and miter bar are going to be crappy just as they are for all small portable table saws and given it uses a battery there will be blade restrictions and limited run time. the digital height and angle setting features are very nice and the SawStop technology is a requirement if safety is paramount. There have to be big gives as you go smaller on almost anything.

Fitting such a small saw in a systainer is its genius. Ultimate portability.*

The fence and mitre bar are absolutely not crappy. Have you seen the saw? Touched it? In photos / videos, it looks a bit like it might have the build quality of a laserjet (which in itself would be waaay above the build quality the Proxxon FET, for example). But it’s not. The build quality is the best I have ever seen in a Festool — and I have many of the “flagship” products. This isn’t just up there with the best, it’s way better.

The mitre fence is plain and has no points of attachment. But it’s not crappy.

The rip fence is really really solid / square, with ways to attach jigs. The pull out feature is a nice addition.

The mitre locks in place and is rock solid with the slider. And the slider is amazingly solid and square. No play in it whatsoever. Super glidey. It’s a really fine piece of engineering.

Blade choice is indeed restrictive, but you can cut to a height of 50mm, which is enough for me.

I haven’t tested all-day use on the batteries, and likely never will, as I won’t be laying floors with it. But even if they don’t last a full day, just get a couple of spares. Or throw them in the charger while you have lunch. I don’t get battery “range anxiety”, but I know some feel it acutely (and I’m about to find out, because I’m selling my HKC 55 with its charger in the next few days (and it’s my only charger) and the new charger hasn’t arrived yet  [scared])

SawStop would have made it a slam dunk for many, but there just isn’t the room.** I’m sure someone somewhere is working on a smaller design, but clearly it’s not ready yet. Maybe at some point in the future. In the meantime, the riving knife and blade guard are very easy to switch in and out, which means they will get used. No screwdrivers etc needed — just an internal button that you use the allen key to push.

I’m borderline on the fold-up table. It’s a very well executed fold up table, as fold-up tables go, but perhaps the addition of an extra locking mechanism would make it even better. It has a tiny amount of play front/back (around 0.2mm — you can feel and hear it, but hardly see it), but none side/side, and no up/down where the tables join. There’s a slight amount of up/down play at the extremity, but gravity is holding it down and you’re pressing down in use. And the extremity is adjustable if it gets out of flat with the main table.

Throwing in a couple of zero clearance inserts would have been a nice addition. They have a complex geometry and would really need a CNC / Shaper Origin / 3D printer to make new ones.

As I say, I’ve only had it a few days and the mitre fence is the only thing I can really criticise.

Otherwise, it’s very innovative and a major achievement / milestone for Festool — a change from just trying to producing a better jigsaw / track saw etc. to rethinking the whole machine.

*  I also hope it’s the first of many in this form factor. I’m space-constrained (as are many in Europe / in cities) and could use the space. E.g. I’d sell my CMS immediately for a smaller systainer version of a router table — and this saw’s surface area with the table folded out is as already big as a CMS. Developing the idea further: they have the sliding table and a lift mechanism in the saw already. Add a small router spindle like the Shaper Origin’s and drill a couple of holes in the table for a fence and voilà [big grin]. When can I order?  [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

** or rather, inside there is a surprising amount of room. Maybe in a future version they will use it all for something.

Offline pixelated

  • Posts: 417
Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2023, 10:26 AM »
Does anyone know if the CSC Sys 50 is being shown in the "Festool Experience" road show they've been doing in the U.S?

This saw seems like it might be a good fit for my needs with the possible exception of its cutting capacity. It would be nice to be able to see one in person.

Offline timwors

  • Posts: 20
Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2023, 12:51 PM »
I don’t know about the US but they did a bit of a UK tour with it earlier this year. I saw it at an Axminster store and even got to do a couple of test cuts with it. It is extremely impressive. I completely agree with ElectricFeet that it exudes build quality. The sliding table is absolutely rock solid with no play whatsoever. Amazingly quiet in operation, and excellent cut quality (one of the demonstrations was on a piece of laminated worktop). Only downside for me was the price!

The Festool reps acknowledged the size restriction but made the fair point that if you are intending to break down sheet goods, they already have other options at your disposal.

Offline woodbutcherbower

  • Posts: 791
Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2023, 02:25 PM »
I've spent 34 years on the tools as a professional, and I've never owned a table saw. My (probably deeply flawed) logic was that unless it was huge and capable of breaking down 4' x 8' sheets more quickly and accurately than a TS55, then it wasn't an expense I needed to burden myself with. Then this darn thing appeared. I remember posting on here when the first 'sneak peek' cellphone video appeared, saying that "I don't need a table saw - but if I did, I'd buy this one".

I started to remember all of the times when I needed to make dozens of identically-sized strips, or similar repetitive work which needed to be super-accurate - and I also remembered a hundred other things, including the ridiculous amount of time I must have spent over the years making jigs to ensure that strips ripped on a TS55 were all the same width, just for starters. I've watched Festool's compelling (but cripplingly cheesy, monumentally awful) videos. They're a global leader, for Chrissakes. How can they endlessly, repeatedly not get this most fundamentally basic of promo stuff right? The videos on YouTube all have one thing in common - "Comments are turned off" indicating that I'm not alone in my thoughts on this topic. But hey - whatever.

It's an incredibly clever and truly innovative piece of equipment. Beautifully designed, well-built, quiet, lightweight, portable ...... the list is a long one.

I think you can see where I'm going with this ......

EDIT = and just in case you were thinking that the Festool videos were terrible because Germans allegedly have no sense of humour - just check this out. Translation = 'Das Bild haengt schief' = 'The picture wasn't level' ....



Kevin

« Last Edit: May 22, 2023, 06:05 PM by woodbutcherbower »

Offline ElectricFeet

  • Posts: 216
Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2023, 03:17 PM »
I started to remember all of the times when I needed to make dozens of identically-sized strips, or similar repetitive work which needed to be super-accurate - and I also remembered a hundred other things, including the ridiculous amount of time I must have spent over the years making jigs to ensure that strips ripped on a TS55 were all the same width, just for starters.
Yup. My experience too (but without the 34 years as a professional [big grin]). Right now I need to cut 6 French cleats in 19mm birch ply, from a piece that is 1300x400mm. That would be a real stretch with my TSC 55K, or my Byrnes tablesaw (no easy and consistent 45 degree option (and it’s just too small)), or the Proxxon FET that I gave away (forget using that for literally anything) or the HKC55 I’m selling. If I had space, I would have bought a SawStop ages ago, but I don’t. The CSC SYS 50 is what I’ve really needed all these years and all roads led to here. Sounds melodramatic, but I’ve been battling with this conundrum — no-space-for-consistent-rip-cuts — for years.

I think you can see where I'm going with this ......
[big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

I struggled with the decision — price mainly. Then I found a buyer for the HKC 55 and it became a lot easier.

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 2731
Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2023, 04:25 PM »
Your original post had be confused.  I am guessing that you need the wider kerf for the jigs that you will use to cut the strips.  I can’t imagine that you would cut the strips on a table saw.  I would guess that a band saw would be the saw of choice for that kind of work.

If that is the case, Whiteside (and others) make router bits for cutting slots as small as 1/8”.

https://www.whitesiderouterbits.com/collections/solid-carbide-straight-bits-two-flute


Amazon sells several in lots of 2 to 5 (breakage must be a problem).

Also Dremel makes smaller bits for their tools (I’ve never tried cutting slots with a Dremel).


Offline ElectricFeet

  • Posts: 216
Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2023, 04:51 PM »
I can’t imagine that you would cut the strips on a table saw.  I would guess that a band saw would be the saw of choice for that kind of work.
Here’s a vid showing how it’s done on a tablesaw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxG-NbUzMVE?t=548

Offline ElectricFeet

  • Posts: 216
Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2023, 02:20 PM »
I have a slight issue with the cross cut fence, not in its quality or accuracy but the lack repeat stops.
Stop press: I’ve just noticed that that if you take off the rip fence (with a simple turn of a knob), you can use it (in the same orientation—with the tall side up) in the cross-cut fence (again, with a simple turn of a knob). This would allow you to make a flip stop (or an l-shaped block) that can run along the top slot. It’s much longer than the mitre fence (thus allowing stops quite a way out).

(It can also be attached with the tall side flat-down, but I’m not sure how this would be useful.)

Offline dunk

  • Posts: 5
Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2023, 08:29 AM »
My setup.





« Last Edit: June 12, 2023, 12:47 PM by dunk »

Offline Bencan

  • Posts: 46
Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2023, 06:00 PM »
My setup.






Ok that’s pretty cool. How’s the saw working out overall?


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Offline dunk

  • Posts: 5
Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2023, 01:09 AM »
Very good so far, battery life is good too.


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Offline woodferret

  • Posts: 537
Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2023, 09:07 AM »
Thanks for confirming the mini Bow feather works on there.

Offline woodferret

  • Posts: 537
Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2023, 09:59 AM »
I am relative newbie to european style sliders... but one question came up for me.  How does one do a rip cut with a bevel since the blade tilts towards the fence?

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 6372
Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2023, 10:11 AM »
I am relative newbie to european style sliders... but one question came up for me.  How does one do a rip cut with a bevel since the blade tilts towards the fence?

As usual, just need to find a way to add a hold down to the fence in case the wood wants to bow up.

Offline ElectricFeet

  • Posts: 216
Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2023, 01:01 PM »
I am relative newbie to european style sliders... but one question came up for me.  How does one do a rip cut with a bevel since the blade tilts towards the fence?

Per to the manual, you:
  • Remove the preset profile setting rail [= the mitre gauge]
  • Fit the parallel side fence [= the (removable) fence]
  • If the saw blade is inclined towards the par­allel side fence [9B] [it always is, unless you're cutting at 0 to -10°]:
    • Rotate the stop rail [9-1]  [=the alu profile attached to fence] so that the lower side faces the saw blade so that there is more space for the push stick and the saw blade does not come into contact with the stop rail [=so it's more like a backwards L, rather than a P]
    • If there is still insufficient space for the push stick between the protective cover [blade guard] and stop rail, use a push block [not supplied -- a grripper works well]
    • In order to prevent jams and workpiece kickbacks [which is what I presume @woodferret is asking about], set the stop rail so that its rear end is at the height of a 45° line leading from the centre of the saw blade
  • Set the inclination angle of the saw blade on the control module [the screen]
  • Guide the workpiece along the parallel side fence

And the relevant pic, to make it clearer:


I ripped some cleats last weekend and it worked really well, despite my misgivings about the whole setup.

Side note: I wish Festool had used industry standard terminology when translating this manual into English, rather than making up their own. I found myself constantly having to look at the pics to figure out what they were talking about. "Spacer wedge"? -- what's wrong with riving knife or splitter? And -- splutter --  "preset profile setting rail" for mitre gauge? C'mon ::)

(Though I should say that they deserve credit for having written a slightly better and more instructive manual than usual in this case -- terminology excepted.)


Offline woodferret

  • Posts: 537
Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2023, 01:47 PM »
Thank you ElectricFeet.  I forgot the low fence could be pushed forward too.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2023, 01:50 PM by woodferret »

Offline ElectricFeet

  • Posts: 216
Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2023, 01:27 PM »
My setup.


...

I'm trying to understand the flat blade cover in @dunk 's picture. Festool show how to create one in their quick guide video:



As a newbie table saw user, I cannot figure out when I would want use it.
  • If I'm doing a wide rip cut or a cross cut, then -- at least from Festool's point of view -- the supplied blade guard should do the job, shouldn't it? (I know that a lot of woodworkers never use the supplied blade guard, for various reasons.)
  • If I'm doing a thin rip cut, then I don't want a blade cover or blade guard at all, as I will generally want to use a push stick or push block, at least at the end -- and this flat cover or the supplied blade guard would interfere with that (and also may interfere with the fence).
  • Festool's video says: "For special work (e.g. groove cuts) you have to cover the saw blade. In this video we show you how to make such a cover quickly and easily.". But why would you want to cover the blade for a groove cut? Aren't you using a push block in this scenario?
So why does Festool show us how to build one of these?  The phrase "For special work (e.g. groove cuts) you have to cover the saw blade" sounds like they are citing a legal requirement, but if so, why isn't the cover included with the saw?

Under what circumstances would I want to use this? @dunk 's example -- for partial thin rip cuts -- seems like a situation in which I might want a flat cover, but it's not what Festool is saying.

And a secondary question: Does it help with dust collection in some scenarios?

I'm an experienced track saw user, but I'm new to table saws with the CSC SYS 50. So still finding my way.

Offline woodferret

  • Posts: 537
Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2023, 02:08 PM »
There's a joke I heard from a German carpenter that they went into building kid's tree houses because they finally get to work with wood.

The CSC50 is targeted for those engineered materials so one assumes it's relatively flat/stable and can thus run a groove without a over blade pushblock like the Grr-riper or shoe. 

The picture IF it was intact stock, would have been considered lazy and one should have switched to the full guard for a through cut.  But, the notches in the pictured stock make it 50-50 on whether the guard and paws would catch - so this is one of those special situations I guess you're talking about.
 

Offline dunk

  • Posts: 5
Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2023, 03:56 PM »
My setup.


...

I'm trying to understand the flat blade cover in @dunk 's picture. Festool show how to create one in their quick guide video:



As a newbie table saw user, I cannot figure out when I would want use it.
  • If I'm doing a wide rip cut or a cross cut, then -- at least from Festool's point of view -- the supplied blade guard should do the job, shouldn't it? (I know that a lot of woodworkers never use the supplied blade guard, for various reasons.)
  • If I'm doing a thin rip cut, then I don't want a blade cover or blade guard at all, as I will generally want to use a push stick or push block, at least at the end -- and this flat cover or the supplied blade guard would interfere with that (and also may interfere with the fence).
  • Festool's video says: "For special work (e.g. groove cuts) you have to cover the saw blade. In this video we show you how to make such a cover quickly and easily.". But why would you want to cover the blade for a groove cut? Aren't you using a push block in this scenario?
So why does Festool show us how to build one of these?  The phrase "For special work (e.g. groove cuts) you have to cover the saw blade" sounds like they are citing a legal requirement, but if so, why isn't the cover included with the saw?

Under what circumstances would I want to use this? @dunk 's example -- for partial thin rip cuts -- seems like a situation in which I might want a flat cover, but it's not what Festool is saying.

And a secondary question: Does it help with dust collection in some scenarios?

I'm an experienced track saw user, but I'm new to table saws with the CSC SYS 50. So still finding my way.
I personally use it for small rebate cuts, I also like to see what I’m doing and use it instead of the crown guard. I think for me it’s just a personal preference.

I’m not a lover of using a table saw without a crown guard for safety reasons and as I said earlier it gives me a little bit more visibility.


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Offline ElectricFeet

  • Posts: 216
Re: Festool CSC SYS 50 Tablesaw
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2023, 03:38 PM »
Thanks to both. And thanks also to @dunk for showing the bow featherboard fp5 (portable saw version) in the pic. I picked one up and it's way better than my old ones and works with the saw really well.