Author Topic: festool abrasives  (Read 4406 times)

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Offline fsg

  • Posts: 15
festool abrasives
« on: January 24, 2007, 04:34 PM »
How much difference is there between rubin and brillant sanding sheets from festool? Is the difference in the aggressiveness of the abrasive?

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Offline Lou Miller

  • Posts: 480
  • North Wales, PA
    • Some of my work
Re: festool abrasives
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2007, 05:28 PM »
How much difference is there between rubin and brillant sanding sheets from festool? Is the difference in the aggressiveness of the abrasive?

I'm sure you'll get a better answer from someone else, but IMO... The Rubin seem as though they hold up much better for heavier sanding in wood. The Brilliant, are better for things that typically clog the paper. The Rubin is noticably thicker than the Brilliant and the abrasive seem thicker too. I've torn several discs of the brillaint when using them for heavier sanding jobs (cause I was too lazy to switch). They both seem to cut about the same to me though.

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1907
Re: festool abrasives
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2007, 08:40 PM »
My experience mirrors Lou's. If one really wants to be aggressive the Saphir 24 grit will cut Kryptonite.

Bob, Isn't there another category in the works as well?

Greg
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline Bob Marino

  • Posts: 3256
Re: festool abrasives
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2007, 10:01 PM »
 The Rubin does have a thicker backing than the Brilliant. It is coated so the wood fibers won't clog it up so quickly. Both papers are aluminum oxide. Again, I agree with Lou and Greg.

 Greg,

 The new paper is called Cristal and a sheet or two is being sent with the ros. It will be available very soon.


 Here's info from Festool USA's FAQ's:

Question: What makes your Cristal abrasive remove material up to 40% faster? 
 
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 Answer :
Cristal is open-coated and has a harder variety of aluminum oxide. The bonding is a phenolic resin, for extreme durability, and the paper backing is heavy duty. On painted or clear-finished surfaces, fiberglass and fillers, you will have the most aggressive material removal with Cristal. Because it is open-coated it does not as readily clog, so it lasts longer, too.

However with Cristal there will be more artifacts to clean up. Surface quality won’t be as good as with similar grits in Brilliant, Titan or Rubin. So we recommend using Cristal for aggressive stock removal, then switching to either Brilliant, Titan or Ruben, depending on the material, for finish sanding. Currently we have Cristal available in six-inch discs. For everything else, for aggressive sanding, we recommend Saphir.

According to Sandor Nagyszalanczy in The Wood Sanding Book, published by Taunton Press: “The tiny open spaces between grains on a sheet of open-coat sandpaper provides relief for swarf, just as gullets on a saw blade provide clearance for chips cut by the blades teeth. In contrast, a closed coat abrasive is more likely to load and eventually burn and glaze the surface of the abrasive. The heat generated reduces the life of the abrasive … Because they are less like to load up, open-coat sandpapers are the better choice for sanding soft, gummy woods. Open-coat papers are also a blessing for sanding or polishing clear-finished and painted surfaces.”

 
   Bob
Former Festool  Dealer since 2002; user well before that!

Marco F.

  • Guest
Re: festool abrasives
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2007, 10:08 AM »
Could someone tell me how many sheets of sandpaper the systainer that has the insert for Rotex 150 sandpaper holds? Wanted to pick one up but I wasn't sure if I would be better off buying an empty number 3 systainer. Thanks

Offline Ned

  • Posts: 1146
Re: festool abrasives
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2007, 10:24 AM »
I went with the empty SYS 3.  Holds more, in boxes, and costs less.

Offline Jim Dailey

  • Posts: 278
Re: festool abrasives
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2007, 11:27 AM »
Marco,

I'd say about 400 sheets in 8 slots.  I have thus 8 different grits of about 50 each (the finer grits take up less room than courser grits).  But since I buy boxes of 50/100 I still end up with over flow....  It is handy to flip it open & have a selection at your finger tips.

I got this Systainer in a package of equipment of eBay.  It is the only dedicated abrasives Systainer I have.  The rest of my abrasives are stored in their own boxes within a open/non-insert Systainer.  Although not as handy as Ned said the empty Systainers "Holds more, in boxes, and costs less."

jim
Life is just a series of projects...

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1339
Re: festool abrasives
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2007, 04:00 PM »
The finest grit I currently use is the Brilliant 320.  I used it last night between coats on a table top I am finishing with spar urethane .  For the final coat, should I be using something finer such as 600?  Is there that much of a difference between the 320 and the 400? 
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, P1cc, MFT/3, T15, TID-18, RO150FEQ, MT55cc, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, OF 2200, OF1400, CSX, C18, VacSys, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE. Mafell DDF40, Sawstop contractor, PM 1500, Shaper Origin. Felder AF-14

Offline John Langevin

  • Posts: 245
  • Springfield, MA
Re: festool abrasives
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2007, 10:00 AM »
It primarily depends on the smoothness and degree of gloss that you want. I primarily use nitrocellulose lacquer, shellac or water-based finishes. If necessary, in between coats I do a light sanding with 400 or 500 grit. My customers typically want a deep 'mirror' finish so after I have built up a sufficient coating thickness I go from 500 or 600 grit all the way through 4000 grit. At this point the finish will be very smooth but still not shiny. For a satin finish stop here, for a semi-gloss finish proceed with a quality wax (Briwax or Butcher's, 3-4 coats). For a gloss finish continue with various polishing compounds (applied with my Rotex150 and the soft sponge; I just tried this) followed by wax.
Practicing Mediocrity Never Begets Perfection

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1339
Re: festool abrasives
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2007, 05:41 PM »
I see.  So it's the polishing afterwards that makes the difference.  I suppose it is like french polishing but using the sander rather than by hand.  Any particular sponge or just the soft one?  I'll have to order some from Bob soon.
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, P1cc, MFT/3, T15, TID-18, RO150FEQ, MT55cc, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, OF 2200, OF1400, CSX, C18, VacSys, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE. Mafell DDF40, Sawstop contractor, PM 1500, Shaper Origin. Felder AF-14

Offline John Langevin

  • Posts: 245
  • Springfield, MA
Re: festool abrasives
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2007, 10:59 AM »
When using the fine grit abrasives 400 grit and higher I just started using the Interface Pad (P/N 492212), on Bob Marino's recommendation and found that it works quite well. On my latest piece of furniture I used the Fine Sponge (P/N 493866) in conjunction with the Interface Pad to work the wax into the wood using a low speed (1 or 2). I then buffed out the wax using the Sheepskin (P/N 484131). The table was a veneered side leaf table and I was asked to renew the finish rather than remove and replace it. By using slightly slower speeds with the abrasives and just the weight of the sander I didn't cut through the veneer at all; which was a concern of mine. One problem I did have was cleaning the original shellac finish of dust and accumulated crud. I tried De-natured alcohol which didn't clean very well but started to soften the finish so I quit. Turpentine worked slightly better but wasn't ideal by any means. Any suggestions? Perhaps some chemical or compound used in conjunction with one of the Coarser Pads or the Convuluted Pad?.
Practicing Mediocrity Never Begets Perfection