Author Topic: Domino XL minified  (Read 3726 times)

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Offline serge0n

  • Posts: 89
Domino XL minified
« on: September 17, 2019, 02:40 PM »
Several months ago a friend of mine asked me to build an app for him to keep inventory and to track his rock collection. It was a pretty straightforward project with functional, but basic UI, so I didn't ask for anything in return. To my surprise at the "app launch" event my friend gave me a huge cardboard box as a gift. When I opened it and saw a big systainer inside, I was so excited to discover what tool lies within that I quickly ripped the shipping box apart and checked the label. WHOA! Domino XL!!! My friend knew about my addiction to kool-aid. Timing was also perfect as I just started working on a set of barn style doors for the little shed I built for my son's toys.



Eager to check out the Domino, I flipped the systainer open and... and there is a green tool inside. Looks kinda like Festool. From a distance. But it's tiny. And it doesn't say "Festool" on the side.



Some scumbag (a customer or a warehouse employee, who knows) decided to steal the Domino XL and replace it with something that passes inspection by a person who doesn't know much about tools.



Sadly my friend bought the Domino on Amazon two months ago, there was no way he could initiate a return and tell Amazon the original tool was stolen and replaced with a cheapest biscuit joiner you can buy at a retail store. I've heard stories of people ordering expensive camera equipment on Amazon only to discover a brick inside the box. They had a lot of issues getting their money back from Amazon even after videotaping how they opened the box. In this instance trying to open a case with Amazon support is a moot point.
Why wasn't the box opened shortly after delivery? It was a gift, so my friend wanted me to do the unboxing. The whole package had some good weight to it, so it seemed like everything should've been in order.

I don't think there is anything my friend can do about this, he just spent a lot of money on a Sys 5 with Domino XL insert and a cheap Ryobi joiner. Oh, they also forgot to steal one 12 mm cutter. My friend offered to get me another Domino, but I refused: he already spent this much and I didn't expect anything for the small app I built for him. So I took the Sys 5 and everything inside with the intention to sell it and get at least something out of this.

Lesson learned -- open the box and test the tool as soon as it arrives! Don't set it away thinking everything should be fine. It may not be. I have the serial number for this Domino and I'll register it in my name, then I'll post it on this forum in case that Amazon clown decides to sell it. I hope the stolen tool won't bring that person any joy and all the mortises will always be misaligned.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 02:43 PM by serge0n »

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Offline Mike Goetzke

  • Posts: 348
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2019, 02:55 PM »
You should still contact Amazon.

I had a similar thing happen at Menard's. I purchased a Bosch powered hand planer but decided I didn't really need it (I never opened it). I returned it and they needed someone from the tool department to look at it. When he cut the cable tie on the case and opened it he said it was fine. I right away noticed it was a Ryobi with the Bosch logo stuck on it so I mentioned it to them thinking they may blame me for it once someone else purchased it. Big mistake, was at the counter for at least another 30 minutes talking to several others before I received my refund. Lesson to self - always open boxed tools at the register.

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1756
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2019, 03:31 PM »
Wow.  There are no words for this kind of deceit.  I would, as you said, register the tool.  It might be worth a call to Festool to report it stolen as well.  I'm not sure if they still maintain a list of stolen tools.  In all likelihood if it ever gets sent to them, it will be from the unsuspecting buyer of said tool, who really should have asked why he got the tool so cheap without a systainer and a 12mm cutter.   [blink]
-Raj

Offline serge0n

  • Posts: 89
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2019, 04:29 PM »
You should still contact Amazon.

I had a similar thing happen at Menard's.

Incredible, the tool box was even sealed with cable tie and the thief even slapped the Bosch logo on the tool! Imagine trying to explain the tool was stolen if you had opened that box at home. I'll also start checking boxed tools at the register.

We will try and reach out to Amazon, probably nothing will come of it, but it's worth a try.

@Raj -- thank you for the suggestion! I just called Festool a few minutes ago, they don't keep track of stolen tools anymore, but the customer service rep took my information about the tool just in case it comes in for service. I also registered the tool in my name.
I see Festools without a systainer or a manual pop up on Offer Up all the time, who knows under which circumstances they "lost" the case and documentation.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 2690
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2019, 04:38 PM »
My experience with Amazon customer service has been exceptional. I'd contact them and let them know what ha[ppened.
Birdhunter

Online Svar

  • Posts: 1840
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2019, 04:44 PM »
I'm surprised Amazon was not more cooperative. Few times I had issues with my orders (missing part, broken, in one case empty package ripped open) Amazon refunded within hours, no questions asked even tough the items were quite pricey. One time they asked to send a photo of the damaged package, that's all.

Offline sprior

  • Posts: 444
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2019, 05:18 PM »
Did he buy it with a credit card that offers "lost, stolen, or damage" coverage?  If so you might be able to go that route.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1379
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2019, 05:21 PM »
I'm surprised Amazon was not more cooperative.
I'm not, as the OP didn't contact them (which IMHO he should) so they don't know that this happened...

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2241
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2019, 05:35 PM »
I bought two MFS sets through Amazon, the first came with obviously used rails.  Amazon gave me a decent discount to keep the set,  The second set I bought had damaged rails and they would only offer a return.  Considering the original cost, I decided t o keep and repair the damaged pieces, mostly bent ends on the slots.  I've worked with aluminum extrusions for the last 40 years. so again I kept the set and repaired as the discount against Festool's price made it worth the effort.

Offline deepcreek

  • Posts: 836
    • TimberFire Studio
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2019, 08:30 PM »
The trick to Amazon customer service is to ask for an agent in the United States as soon as someone answers.  Usually there is no resistance but if there is be insistent.

After the transfer to the U.S., I usually verify it by asking what city/state they are located in.  The CSR's in India and the Philippines can't fake that.

The point of the request is that U.S. based customer service agents seem to have far more latitude in solving problems.

I have had exceptional customer service this way versus mixed results relying on the outsourced CSR's who are restricted to a script.

FWIW - If it's something minor, I don't ask for a transfer.
Joe Adams
TimberFire Studio
Houston, Texas

http://www.facebook.com/timberfire

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5843
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2019, 11:39 PM »
Contact Amazon, or since your friend bought it have him contact them. they should be able to trace the order if he doesnt have the receipt .

That really sucks what happened to you..

Hopefully Amazon will be able to sort this out for you. they do got good customer service, and Im sure this isnt the first time this has happened to them.

Hopefully it did come straight from Amazon and not one of their sellers.

Offline cpw

  • Posts: 155
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2019, 09:16 AM »
Hopefully it did come straight from Amazon and not one of their sellers.
For many items, Amazon will co-mingle things from many different sellers; so it can be hard to "trust" any item from them.  You would think for such high dollar items they might keep better separation, but I don't believe that is the case.

For a Festool product, there are a variety of online dealers where you know who you will deal with if there is a problem (Tool Nut, Beaver, etc.).  Because the price is fixed, the only differentiator is service.

Offline threesixright

  • Posts: 382
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2019, 09:32 AM »
Sadly my friend bought the Domino on Amazon two months ago, there was no way he could initiate a return and tell Amazon the original tool was stolen and replaced with a cheapest biscuit joiner you can buy at a retail store. I've heard stories of people ordering expensive camera equipment on Amazon only to discover a brick inside the box. They had a lot of issues getting their money back from Amazon even after videotaping how they opened the box. In this instance trying to open a case with Amazon support is a moot point.

darn! That sucks  >:(

Did he actually tried contacting (and explaining) Amazon ?

I bought once a (imo) expensive book (~ 100 USD). 9 months later I find out its fake [blink]. Basically a Chinese copy. I explained this to Amazon, next day UPS picks up the fake and a week later a new (non) fake arrives. No questions asked.

Online Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 788
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2019, 10:42 AM »
Sadly, we live in a sometimes nasty world, where certain nasty people operate.
This must be so embarrassing for the friend, who made such a lovely gesture too.

I hope the story has a happy ending.

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1756
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2019, 10:45 AM »
Along with contacting amazon, check the weight of the Ryobi and that systainer against whatever was on record with the shipping carrier.  You might find some corroborating evidence that would prove the shipment your friend received was several pounds lighter than an authentic XL.  That might sway Amazon to take some action.  There is a glimmer of hope here and really nothing to lose by trying.

These fakes must be a black eye for them and not something they want to continue.  I think another poster (in this thread or another) had also suggested requesting a US customer service rep to handle the issue, which is a good suggestion and gets you around the foreign script readers manning the cust service lines. 
-Raj

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5843
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2019, 12:14 PM »
@serge0n

Please Let us know what happens when you contact Amazon. This really does affect all of us as we all order from Amazon and dont want this to happen to us. If it does happen to us whether is will be resolved favorably and make it right.

Good Luck



Offline serge0n

  • Posts: 89
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2019, 05:07 PM »
Everyone, thank you so much for all your helpful input!

My friend and I talked about this whole situation over lunch today, he is going to contact Amazon when he comes back from work and request a US-based CSR. I hope it will go well, but unfortunately he didn't purchase directly from Amazon, he decided to save on tax and picked a seller that offered the tool on Amazon tax-free.

@jobsworth
Sure thing, I will post the outcome here.

@RKA
Great idea about comparing weights, thank you! It would definitely prove Domino wasn't replaced with Ryobi after the package was delivered. However, we will have to order another Domino XL to be able to compare weights. Or maybe I'll reach out to Toolnut or Beaver Tools and ask if they have this data available.

@threesixright
Thank you for sharing your book story, very reassuring! I had bad experience with Amazon customer service 5-6 years ago where they didn't care at all about any issues if it was 30 days after the purchase. At one point I had an open case with them for almost 2 months where they didn't want to reimburse me for a package that was lost in transit. Judging by what others are saying, Amazon's policy has changed since that time.

@deepcreek
Thank you for this insight! My friend plans to follow your advice and ask for a US-based CSR.

@Svar
We'll find out tonight how cooperative Amazon is...





Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4229
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2019, 05:11 PM »
Amazon jumps on third party sellers who screw up with both feet. You might get lucky.

Offline PeterK

  • Posts: 1004
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2019, 06:10 PM »
I think the lesson learned is to only purchase directly from dealers for Festool products. I have read too many stories of Amazon orders not containing new factory items. Too many returns being sent back out. Amazon normally has awesome customer service but these shipments are so easy to fake from the purchaser that all trust is being lost by seller and buyer. I only buy from Amazon as the seller and absolutely never from other sellers there. Burned one time and never again.

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1756
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2019, 07:22 PM »
@serge0n
21.6 lbs with all items included in scope of delivery.  My wife would argue the bathroom scale is inaccurate, reading high.  I’ll take the 5th there.
-Raj

Offline threesixright

  • Posts: 382
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2019, 03:59 AM »
@threesixright
Thank you for sharing your book story, very reassuring! I had bad experience with Amazon customer service 5-6 years ago where they didn't care at all about any issues if it was 30 days after the purchase. At one point I had an open case with them for almost 2 months where they didn't want to reimburse me for a package that was lost in transit. Judging by what others are saying, Amazon's policy has changed since that time.

Hehe, good! Well I have many more good experiences, actually never had a bad thing TBH.

Living in the US:

Once bought a tripod (~ 7 yrs ago), while UPS claimed it was delivered to my neighbours, I had seen nothing. Overnight shipping, and next day it was there (east->west coast!).

Living in Europe
Bought some toothbrushes, only wrong model. Shipped form the UK, I admitted to them it was my own mistake. Nevertheless they shipped (free) the correct version, and didn't want the wrong ones back.

The best one. I bought 4x Piher clamps (#31206), it was a amazing deal. They where priced at 20,00 EUR (normal retail @ > 4x that price). But they had only one on stock (with no date set), so I pull the trigger on 4 of them. 8 weeks later nothing delivered. So I contacted Amazon, and they where like "sorry this, sorry that', but not a true solution (other then refund, and order again for 80+ EUR each  [scared]). I already thought that something went wrong with the pricing and the seller pulled out. Not sure (just a gut feeling). I kept insisting and at the end (took a bit of gentle persuasion  [embarassed] ) they came through. 4 brand spanking clamps for 80 EUR. Well lucky me I'd say. Anyway, the moral is that in general, while other companies can be a bunch of dicks, Amazon was always helping and even went the extra mile.

Apparently some people have bad experience, I'm sorry for them. But to me, Amazon has always been good. Kudos to them.

I wish you well and hope they solve it !, XL seems like an amazing machine  [thumbs up] (just waiting for my 500 to come in  [tongue]).

Keep us posted!

Offline threesixright

  • Posts: 382
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2019, 04:02 AM »
@serge0n
My wife would argue the bathroom scale is inaccurate, reading high.  I’ll take the 5th there.
ROFL, this made my day (and the day is just starting).  [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

I hope she doesn't read FOG ;)

Offline Just Bill

  • Posts: 7
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2019, 11:23 PM »
As someone mentioned above, check with your friend on how payment was made. If with a credit card, I would dispute the charge immediately. The CC company will do an investigation and your friend can explain the entire story which makes sense why it wasn't reported earlier. I have found that most credit card companies, (particularly) American Express, will bend over backwards to help you resolve with the seller.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1379
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2019, 07:17 AM »
As someone mentioned above, check with your friend on how payment was made. If with a credit card, I would dispute the charge immediately. The CC company will do an investigation and your friend can explain the entire story which makes sense why it wasn't reported earlier. I have found that most credit card companies, (particularly) American Express, will bend over backwards to help you resolve with the seller.
I prefer to give the seller a chance before going through the CC company.

Simply from putting me into the sellers shoes I would like the customer to ask for help first, before him taking (possibly unneeded and likely expensive) steps that lead to additional cost and work for me... Customers that take the reverse approach and 'shoot first and ask questions later' are not the ones I (or likely: anyone) would like to have.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4229
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2019, 10:24 AM »
As someone mentioned above, check with your friend on how payment was made. If with a credit card, I would dispute the charge immediately. The CC company will do an investigation and your friend can explain the entire story which makes sense why it wasn't reported earlier. I have found that most credit card companies, (particularly) American Express, will bend over backwards to help you resolve with the seller.
I prefer to give the seller a chance before going through the CC company.

Simply from putting me into the sellers shoes I would like the customer to ask for help first, before him taking (possibly unneeded and likely expensive) steps that lead to additional cost and work for me... Customers that take the reverse approach and 'shoot first and ask questions later' are not the ones I (or likely: anyone) would like to have.

That’s a good first step in the case that the seller made a mistake. In this case the seller deliberately committed fraud, substituting a cheap tool of a different brand for the Domino XL the customer bought.

Offline JimD

  • Posts: 396
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2019, 11:36 AM »
Wow!  That would be an awful surprise.  I wouldn't assume what happened and just contact Amazon and see where it goes.  They could have sent out something returned by another customer too although they bundle a lot of those up and sell a pallet at a steep discount.  I have found them amazingly good on returns.  I broke a CMT 14mm domino cutter I got from them on the second cut just a few weeks ago.  They asked for it back but all I had to do is drop it off at UPS, they immediately sent a replacement and I got credit for the full purchase price of the original once they received it.  I have a phone case and screen protector in the car so I remember to drop them off at UPS right now.  I'm not sure if it was my mistake or theirs but they agreed to take them back too - they do not fit my phone.

I used to have to print out labels and pay return postage unless they had clearly made an error.  These days they seem to cover the postage regardless and they've automated the process where you just show a code on your phone at UPS and do not need to create a label - or even provide a box or anything. 

They also maintain a history of purchases going back literally years.  My experience is that it takes longer when the purchase was from an affiliate rather than Amazon's warehouse but the steps and process is the same.  The CMT cutter was from an affiliate and it took more than a week to get my credit but I still got it.  And I had a replacement cutter in two days. 

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1379
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2019, 06:24 PM »
As someone mentioned above, check with your friend on how payment was made. If with a credit card, I would dispute the charge immediately. The CC company will do an investigation and your friend can explain the entire story which makes sense why it wasn't reported earlier. I have found that most credit card companies, (particularly) American Express, will bend over backwards to help you resolve with the seller.
I prefer to give the seller a chance before going through the CC company.

Simply from putting me into the sellers shoes I would like the customer to ask for help first, before him taking (possibly unneeded and likely expensive) steps that lead to additional cost and work for me... Customers that take the reverse approach and 'shoot first and ask questions later' are not the ones I (or likely: anyone) would like to have.

That’s a good first step in the case that the seller made a mistake. In this case the seller deliberately committed fraud, substituting a cheap tool of a different brand for the Domino XL the customer bought.
As there are plenty of possible explanations how this particular case could have happened the claim that the seller must be the responsible party is, unless you're that particular seller and you know it for a fact first hand as you personally did it, jumping to conclusions. While 'knowing' that another party is evil surely makes life easier as it gives structure to the day... not thinking the worst of others from the start opens the way for interactions that overall are much better and nicer.
Also there are very good reasons for 'innocent until proven guilty'.

Online greg mann

  • Posts: 1871
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2019, 08:31 PM »
Sounds like a good argument to support a brick and mortar retailer.

A lot of good advice here to hopefully back out of a rotten situation.
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5843
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2019, 12:25 PM »
@serge0n

Any progress on getting this settled?

Im interested bc this just may happen to me sometime

Offline serge0n

  • Posts: 89
Re: Domino XL minified
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2019, 06:23 PM »
@jobsworth

I wanted to post an update sooner, but my buddy is still trying to work things out with Amazon/3rd party seller.

Initial Amazon CS response was: "it didn't come from us, work with the vendor, but you are out of the 30 day return window, so good luck!"
Initial 3rd party sellers response was: "Sorry about your experience, but it's been way more than 30 days, I'm not supposed to do anything for you here. But I will give an impression of trying."

So the conversation got started, both Amazon and 3rd party seller are looking into it and are supposedly communicating with each other, but progress is slow.

Some important notes:
1. My friend rarely shops at Amazon. His overall order history can probably fit on one page. So not a very valuable customer.
2. The seller can't file a claim with UPS as he is outside of the claim window.
3. The seller can't get money back from insurance either for similar reasons. So he'd be eating the cost if he accepts the return. The seller was told by the Amazon rep that my friend is a very infrequent customer.

It doesn't look good, so he is going to reach out to his bank and see if the CC charge can get reversed.