Author Topic: Does the Carvex get hot?  (Read 3399 times)

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Offline JonathanJung

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Does the Carvex get hot?
« on: July 15, 2021, 10:28 AM »
I'm looking for a jigsaw that can handle hours of continuous cutting of 4/4 hardwoods. Without getting hot.

The Bosch JS572EBK is a great saw, but gets so hot I have to keep taking breaks. Even wearing gloves isn't enough. It's a wonder it doesn't shut itself down. I've got a handful of different blades to try from.

Would the Carvex, Mafell, or other option be up for this? For my application a bandsaw won't work. I don't mind stopping once in a while, but with my Bosch I'm stopping every 5 minutes.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Alex

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2021, 11:11 AM »
If the Bosch can't handle this, I can't imagine a saw that can. I certainly wouldn't try the Carvex instead. Dunno about the Mafell though, I got no experience with that one.

But, sawing 4/4 hardwoods for hours after eachother, are you sure a jigsaw is the proper tool for the job? What kind of things are you making, what kind of shapes do you need to saw? Some kind of circular saw / table / slider seems to me like it could handle the long duration a lot better.

Offline JonathanJung

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2021, 11:36 AM »
I use the jigsaw to cut flowing lines from multiple pieces made into a larger panel:


Offline grobkuschelig

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2021, 11:50 AM »
Bandsaw?

Will be much quieter as well. ;)

Offline JonathanJung

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2021, 12:24 PM »
Bandsaw?

Will be much quieter as well. ;)

I would but the method used for cutting these doesn't allow for it. And trying to cut exactly to a line with a 7' board would be really hard.

Offline Alex

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2021, 12:37 PM »
Yep, that sure is hard to do with anything else than a jigsaw.

My solution would be to get multiple jigsaws. At least 2, maybe 3. Maybe 4. I don't know, give them plenty of time to cool down while you use another.


Offline guybo

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2021, 12:42 PM »
Hi,check out how jory brigham did his organic bed on youtube. nice panels.guy

Offline Coen

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2021, 01:15 PM »
I do know my Trion does get hot. But the Carvex will probably not run as hot as it has a more efficient brushless motor. Less waste = less heat. But I don't think any jigsaw was designed with your usecase in mind.

The Bosch isn't brushless right?

Either way; they all have a fan, that will have influence too.

Offline JonathanJung

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2021, 01:19 PM »
Multiple jigsaws might be the way to go...or this!

Bosch 7561-118 pneumatic jigsaw. $600, easier on the hands, avoid buying multiple jigsaws...but will have to add a bigger compressor to my cart...

Offline Coen

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2021, 01:29 PM »
From what I can see, pneumatic tools are going the way of the dodo. Corded isn't half as annoying as 'pressure-hosed'. Even in factories where pneumatic tools are used a new use-case is often easier served with yet another Bosch GSR 12v-15 over adding another compressed air hose on a reel.

Offline serge0n

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2021, 01:46 PM »
Get a Mafell.

I was recently doing a lot of cut outs in 4/4 walnut with P1CC and I couldn't feel even the slightest resistance. It was like going through cardboard. Mafell eats it for breakfast. And the cut quality is amazing. Of course I wasn't cutting crazy fast, just as fast as I could to precisely follow my lines.

Offline serge0n

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2021, 01:58 PM »
Here is an example of a hand guided straight cut with Mafell P1CC in 4/4 walnut. I could not get this quality of cut with any other jigsaw, Carvex included.

Offline Alex

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2021, 02:46 PM »
Multiple jigsaws might be the way to go...or this!

Bosch 7561-118 pneumatic jigsaw. $600, easier on the hands, avoid buying multiple jigsaws...but will have to add a bigger compressor to my cart...

That one's not easier on the hands, that body is terrible. And you always have to hold the lever.  Noise of the compressor will also irritate incredibly. $600 for a saw and a new compressor, that's gonna add up. For that money you can buy 2 Mafell jigsaws and feel like you're in heaven.

Offline woodbutcherbower

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2021, 06:49 PM »
The answer to your question is = Mafell P1CC. That is all. As an added bonus, your cuts will be 100% square to the surface. No leaning, no blade wander, nothing. Use a down-cut blade and turn the pendulum action to zero.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2021, 06:54 PM by woodbutcherbower »

Offline Jim_in_PA

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2021, 07:56 PM »
I'm also of the opinion that having more than one to deal with the length of work time you need is the best solution...while cutting with one, the other can be cooling down. Tools like this were not likely ever designed for continuous use. Per my recommendation at that other place, I'd stick with the same tool so the function and feel is the same as you switch between them.
----
ETS 150/3, Rotex 150, OF1010, OF1400, Trion PS 300, TDK-12, CT-22, MFT 1080, TS55, Domino XL DF 700, 8' track, (2) 55" tracks

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Offline ScotF

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2021, 02:33 AM »
Yeah a couple saws is the way to go. The Mafell also gets hot as do most barrel grip saws. I like it the best. A top handle might help you endure long sessions better.

Offline JonathanJung

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2021, 04:07 PM »
Yeah a couple saws is the way to go. The Mafell also gets hot as do most barrel grip saws. I like it the best. A top handle might help you endure long sessions better.

This is very helpful info. Anyone else have the Mafell and can comment to its heat buildup over long use?

Offline Alex

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2021, 04:43 PM »
I don't know the Mafell, but it is just a law of nature that tools get hot.

Lots of movement means lots of friction, which means lots of heat. The Mafell might be a good saw, but it doesn't have a magical fridge on board that other saws don't have.

Offline woodbutcherbower

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2021, 05:03 PM »
Yeah a couple saws is the way to go. The Mafell also gets hot as do most barrel grip saws. I like it the best. A top handle might help you endure long sessions better.

This is very helpful info. Anyone else have the Mafell and can comment to its heat buildup over long use?

Hi Jonathan - ignore the ludicrous 'two saws for use whilst one is cooling down' posts. Or maybe these are coming from the lottery-winner guys who have two of everything - just in case. Two Fisker-Galpin Rocket Mustangs. "Yeah. I bought another one just in case the first one's ashtray got full or the windshield got a splattered mosquito on it" ......... 

Everything with a motor will obviously get warm to some degree. My experience (based on 3 years use/abuse/torture of my P1CC) is that it never gets hot enough to make me feel that it's getting outside of its comfort zone. I've used it on numerous site jobs, cutting multiple birdsmouths in 12" x 4" roof rafters with a 150mm (6") long blade on roofing jobs for maybe 4, 5, 6 hours - literally nonstop - and it was barely warm to the touch. It obviously has a lot to do with the blade, material type, cut type (rip or crosscut), and quality of cut you need - faster/rougher or slower/finer. Everything the company makes is aimed at the pro user and is over-engineered accordingly. It's a stunningly good jigsaw which really sets the bar way high. The real competition-killer is the blade clamping mechanism. It's literally the only jigsaw out there which delivers cuts which are consistently 100% square to the surface. It works with all standard Bosch-type bayonet blades, and Mafell also make a specialist blade called the 'Cunex W1' = 2 x blades welded together for ultimate stiffness and day-long use without machine fatigue. Seek a P1CC out and try it if you can. It even comes in a proper T-Loc Sys 1 Systainer instead of the new Sys3 nonsense ......... 

Oh - and I checked out your website. Lovely work.

No affiliation - just a very happy and 100% satisfied professional user.

https://www.mafell.de/fileadmin/user_upload/downloads/Produktkataloge/Saegen/p1cc/Broschuere_P1cc_EN_1019_s.pdf
« Last Edit: July 16, 2021, 05:49 PM by woodbutcherbower »

Offline Cheese

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2021, 05:06 PM »
Anyone else have the Mafell and can comment to its heat buildup over long use?

Cutting 2x material the P1cc gets mildly warm where you barely notice it.
Cutting 5/16” thick aluminum it gets a little bit warmer but nothing excessive or a need to glove-up.
Putting it another way, I’ve never thought about it before until you brought it up and then I had to think hard about it.

On the other hand, the original Fein multi-tool with the aluminum body/head was a glove-up tool and I’d be prepared every time I used it.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2021, 05:11 PM by Cheese »

Offline Alex

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2021, 03:38 AM »
Hi Jonathan - ignore the ludicrous 'two saws for use whilst one is cooling down' posts. Or maybe these are coming from the lottery-winner guys who have two of everything - just in case. Two Fisker-Galpin Rocket Mustangs. "Yeah. I bought another one just in case the first one's ashtray got full or the windshield got a splattered mosquito on it" ......... 

My apologies, I didn't realise I had to take into account the abject poverty of the average FOG user. I realise now I was way out of line if a $300 jigsaw is as far out of reach for you as a $120.000 car.

I was merely under the assumption, considering the average tradesman here can easily have €20.000 of tools, that if you use a saw for 4 hours a day, it might not be a very bad idea to have a couple of them.

Offline mrB

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2021, 08:19 AM »
If you like your current jigsaw then I will agree that a second might be the way to go.

Otherwise the Mafel receives universal praise.

I don’t believe any of the other examples given here compared to the 7ft highly accurate rip cuts you are doing, so bare that in mind.

‘Non-stop’ cuts on a roof presumably don’t compare as they’re likely;
- often more cross cuts
- soft wood cuts
- not actually non-stop cutting (how would that happen on topical a roofing job?)

Good luck & Nice work👍
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline Jim_in_PA

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2021, 09:07 AM »
For a business operation, having redundant tools isn't a luxury. It's a necessity in many cases, so the suggestion from many folks to leverage multiple tools for continuous use isn't out of hand nor the realm of a lottery winner. I'm mostly an avocational user with some commission work. Even so, I have duplicates of certain tools because it provides advantages functionally. For a business, it does that plus insures that paying work can continue. The OP is doing some extraordinary work with the jigsaw that takes a lot of time to complete. Delays for cooling, regardless of the tool brand/model, have impact on paying productivity. So I stand by the recommendation of multiple tools for this kind of situation.
----
ETS 150/3, Rotex 150, OF1010, OF1400, Trion PS 300, TDK-12, CT-22, MFT 1080, TS55, Domino XL DF 700, 8' track, (2) 55" tracks

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Offline JonathanJung

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2021, 09:43 AM »
Yeah a couple saws is the way to go. The Mafell also gets hot as do most barrel grip saws. I like it the best. A top handle might help you endure long sessions better.

This is very helpful info. Anyone else have the Mafell and can comment to its heat buildup over long use?

Hi Jonathan - ignore the ludicrous 'two saws for use whilst one is cooling down' posts. Or maybe these are coming from the lottery-winner guys who have two of everything - just in case. Two Fisker-Galpin Rocket Mustangs. "Yeah. I bought another one just in case the first one's ashtray got full or the windshield got a splattered mosquito on it" ......... 

Everything with a motor will obviously get warm to some degree. My experience (based on 3 years use/abuse/torture of my P1CC) is that it never gets hot enough to make me feel that it's getting outside of its comfort zone. I've used it on numerous site jobs, cutting multiple birdsmouths in 12" x 4" roof rafters with a 150mm (6") long blade on roofing jobs for maybe 4, 5, 6 hours - literally nonstop - and it was barely warm to the touch. It obviously has a lot to do with the blade, material type, cut type (rip or crosscut), and quality of cut you need - faster/rougher or slower/finer. Everything the company makes is aimed at the pro user and is over-engineered accordingly. It's a stunningly good jigsaw which really sets the bar way high. The real competition-killer is the blade clamping mechanism. It's literally the only jigsaw out there which delivers cuts which are consistently 100% square to the surface. It works with all standard Bosch-type bayonet blades, and Mafell also make a specialist blade called the 'Cunex W1' = 2 x blades welded together for ultimate stiffness and day-long use without machine fatigue. Seek a P1CC out and try it if you can. It even comes in a proper T-Loc Sys 1 Systainer instead of the new Sys3 nonsense ......... 

Oh - and I checked out your website. Lovely work.

No affiliation - just a very happy and 100% satisfied professional user.

https://www.mafell.de/fileadmin/user_upload/downloads/Produktkataloge/Saegen/p1cc/Broschuere_P1cc_EN_1019_s.pdf

Thank you for the feedback about the Mafell, that is very helpful. And for the compliment.

My wife is from Bedfordshire, not more than an hour or two from you.

Offline JonathanJung

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2021, 09:46 AM »
Hi Jonathan - ignore the ludicrous 'two saws for use whilst one is cooling down' posts. Or maybe these are coming from the lottery-winner guys who have two of everything - just in case. Two Fisker-Galpin Rocket Mustangs. "Yeah. I bought another one just in case the first one's ashtray got full or the windshield got a splattered mosquito on it" ......... 

My apologies, I didn't realise I had to take into account the abject poverty of the average FOG user. I realise now I was way out of line if a $300 jigsaw is as far out of reach for you as a $120.000 car.

I was merely under the assumption, considering the average tradesman here can easily have €20.000 of tools, that if you use a saw for 4 hours a day, it might not be a very bad idea to have a couple of them.

Thank you, you're absolutely right. However let's keep things more polite. You're right too, but in the grand scheme of things, you'd have to quadruple that number and then you'd be close, for a single-member shop such as mine.

Offline JonathanJung

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2021, 09:48 AM »
If you like your current jigsaw then I will agree that a second might be the way to go.

Otherwise the Mafel receives universal praise.

I don’t believe any of the other examples given here compared to the 7ft highly accurate rip cuts you are doing, so bare that in mind.

‘Non-stop’ cuts on a roof presumably don’t compare as they’re likely;
- often more cross cuts
- soft wood cuts
- not actually non-stop cutting (how would that happen on topical a roofing job?)

Good luck & Nice work👍

I was wondering the same thing. Cutting birdsmouths or roof work or pieces of metal here and there is not what I'm doing. There's probably down time in between the softwood framing cuts. Even a minute or two helps the machine cool.

Offline JonathanJung

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2021, 09:51 AM »
For a business operation, having redundant tools isn't a luxury. It's a necessity in many cases, so the suggestion from many folks to leverage multiple tools for continuous use isn't out of hand nor the realm of a lottery winner. I'm mostly an avocational user with some commission work. Even so, I have duplicates of certain tools because it provides advantages functionally. For a business, it does that plus insures that paying work can continue. The OP is doing some extraordinary work with the jigsaw that takes a lot of time to complete. Delays for cooling, regardless of the tool brand/model, have impact on paying productivity. So I stand by the recommendation of multiple tools for this kind of situation.

This is spot on. And something that a lot of hobbyists are unaware of. And which is why I hesitate sometimes to post Qs on forums because I don't know what angle the responses will be coming from.

Offline ScotF

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2021, 10:26 AM »
I think you should get a second saw. I have 3 or 4 going at times. Different blades and set up not unlike a router. I do agree with the statement about Mafell being over engineered. I find my Mafell  tools are built for rugged use and accuracy and they are a pleasure to use. That said I have also been very happy with my cordless Carvex and Trion jigsaws.

Offline mrB

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2021, 11:07 AM »
As this is a jigsaw thread, I will mention that as someone who has used many pro jigsaws (never the Mafel) and owns both the festool jigsaws. . I think the Trion is the best by far, I’ve never understood why it seems so undervalued in the festool line up. The blade alignment does need setting properly for the blade thickness, but once that is done it is so smooth and accurate I can hardly believe it.
Even after a decade of ownership mine still surprises me when I pull it out for the more ‘serious’ jobs, over the convenience of my 18v Carvex. Carvex is still a lovely saw, but that Trion is WOW.

One day I’ll get to try the Mafel and see if really is THAT special :)
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline Jim_in_PA

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2021, 01:32 PM »
As this is a jigsaw thread, I will mention that as someone who has used many pro jigsaws (never the Mafel) and owns both the festool jigsaws. . I think the Trion is the best by far, I’ve never understood why it seems so undervalued in the festool line up. The blade alignment does need setting properly for the blade thickness, but once that is done it is so smooth and accurate I can hardly believe it.
Even after a decade of ownership mine still surprises me when I pull it out for the more ‘serious’ jobs, over the convenience of my 18v Carvex. Carvex is still a lovely saw, but that Trion is WOW.

One day I’ll get to try the Mafel and see if really is THAT special :)

Yea, mine is a Trion barrel grip from the mid-2000s. OVer the years, I really only used it as a problem solver but sometimes that got to be creative work, such as sculpting a faux natural edge to replace rotted-beyond-salvage sapwood on the very cherry surface I'm typing on top of "as we speak".  The tool is getting used a lot more right now because I'm in a temporary shop space at our new property until I can build a building. My whole Festool arsenal use is kicked up a few notches because I had to sell my slider due to space constraints and not wanting to pay to move, store and move again a 1500 lb machine. So the Trion, track saw and my bandsaw are going to get a workout for awhile for things I can't or don't want to do on the CNC. The Trion is a beast and works very well.
----
ETS 150/3, Rotex 150, OF1010, OF1400, Trion PS 300, TDK-12, CT-22, MFT 1080, TS55, Domino XL DF 700, 8' track, (2) 55" tracks

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Offline Joebuck

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2021, 06:38 PM »
Jonathan. Very nice work on your website. I really like the Bosch saw, but I think you’d be pretty happy with the Mafell. Based on my experience with both of them, I think the Mafell is worth the premium price tag in every respect. That said, the suggestion of having two saws is a valid one for your particular use.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline woodbutcherbower

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2021, 07:18 PM »
My genuine and sincere apologies to anyone who I've inadvertently offended by being honest. It never ceases to amaze me at just how wide the FOG forum chasm still is between the guy who does this to feed his family and keep a roof over his head - and the guy who likes to make stuff in his garage and has disposable ££££/$$$$ to spend on quality tools.

Professional users - like me - buy and use tools which are skilled, strong, but versatile football players - not ballerinas. If I have 20 or 30 x 6" holes to core-drill through a yard-thick stone wall and I only have one day to do it - I don't expect my Hilti drilling rig to need a relaxing R&R cooling-down rest, an aromatherapy massage or a psychotherapy-powertool-spiritual-wellness-session in between each hole. It has to work all day, every day - that's why it costs the big bucks, and that's why it contains a gearbox which looks like it came out of a miniature Kenworth/Scania truck. A gearbox which has now worked flawlessly for 20 years in a tool which now looks like junk, but which still works as well as the day I bought it.

So no - I don’t need to buy two of anything.

After a lifetime doing this - I also don’t feel the need to justify anything I do, or anything I say to other random unknown hobbyist/semi-pro people on here (and good for you all - I'm sure you're great and very skilled at what you do, and you have a lot of fun doing it) - but instead, I'll just leave you all with this picture of a vaulted green oak roof - constructed with the P1CC performing a crucial and integral role, since that is what OP Jonathan's thread was all about. I'm pretty sure that most other FOG members don't need to rent a $2500-per-day crane to install their projects.

Best wishes to all.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2021, 04:02 AM by woodbutcherbower »

Offline rst

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2021, 07:55 PM »
Woodbutcher that is magnificent work, mucho kudos

Offline squall_line

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2021, 09:02 PM »
I'm glad this is the FOG (Festool Owners Group) rather than the FUG (Festool Users Group).

The number of people who own Festool tools that see less use before the warranty expires (myself included) than some pros see in a single day would probably bother people even more.

Offline FestitaMakool

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Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2021, 06:02 AM »
Any brushless jigsaw has a natural ability to run cooler.
A jig saw does also have a lot of mechanics involved too, generating heat from friction so a brushless motor needs mechanics that run cool too.

Judging by the wast number of used PS 300/Trion for sale from pro’s here, which still works. It tells me that it is the preferred jig saws on work sites.
However, those pro’s that are seeking high end cut quality and durability buy the Mafell. According to my dealer, they run cooler for long run times in addition to be extremely good and in a class of its own.

Woodbutcherbower - That’s a roof to recline for, without closing the eyes [smile]
Having followed Grand Designs this is right up my alley, great work!
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 583
Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2021, 09:23 AM »

So no - I don’t need to buy two of anything.

 I'm pretty sure that most other FOG members don't need to rent a $2500-per-day crane to install their projects.

Best wishes to all.

That's just another difference in what we all do and and how we do it.
As a cabinet shop pro, I do quite a bit of laminate and veneer work. This requires multiple router bits and specific set-ups with specialty bases. Many of these are used in sequence and repetitively too. Having multiple routers is by far the better way to go. Fortunately, these can be simple laminate trimmers, so the cost is not really a factor.
The same holds true with the solid surface work, not as extreme, but multiple full-sized routers are used there too. Sure, one could do it, but you would be forever changing bits.

As far as big rental equipment to install things? Yes, there have been more than a few that required some fairly extreme measures to get things into the building. Sometimes these are because of an error somewhere. Some are planned from the beginning. Most of the time, this is removing a big window or multi-panel doorway. On remodels of existing buildings, this is planned, but a couple of times it happened because of an order of operations mistake, where a window or doorway was finished too early on new construction.
Cranes and/or scissor lifts come in to play on high wall situations or when that window that got removed was on the second or third floor. Most of the big things that I build are in multiple pieces, just to cut down on this, but sometimes, it's not possible or practical.
After a few times of renting a scissor lift and seeing it become more frequent, the company actually bought one. It worked out great, because it is very handy in our own building when it's not on-site somewhere.

I'm pretty sure that this is why you said "most FOG members" though....
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 765
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2021, 01:10 PM »
Jonathan,

One machine that hasn't been mentioned are portable band saws. These machines are designed explicitly for the application you're describing (precise, scrolling cuts in thick timbers), and while they're not inexpensive they'd likely served you better than a jig saw in the long term. I had an opportunity to try the Mafell Z5 when I took the training a few years ago, it's very intuitive and very precise. There is a local timber framer who uses one and just loves it.

https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-z5ec-portable-band-saw

To those who would scoff at the price, let's remember the OP is a professional asking about a heavy duty application, thus I am suggesting a professional piece of equipment.

Alternatively, is there a scenario where you could prepare 3/4" MDF templates for your cuts, rough-cut the finished pieces on a band saw, then use a shaper with a copy ring and spiral cutter to complete the finished pieces? I do this regularly for curved work and find it much easier.....
« Last Edit: July 18, 2021, 01:20 PM by Tom Gensmer »
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7550
Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2021, 02:19 PM »
Jonathan,

One machine that hasn't been mentioned are portable band saws. These machines are designed explicitly for the application you're describing (precise, scrolling cuts in thick timbers), and while they're not inexpensive they'd likely served you better than a jig saw in the long term. I had an opportunity to try the Mafell Z5 when I took the training a few years ago, it's very intuitive and very precise. There is a local timber framer who uses one and just loves it.


https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-z5ec-portable-band-saw

I vote your solution the best, but Jonathan needs two so one can cool down.  [tongue]

Offline JonathanJung

  • Posts: 204
  • www.timberlightdesigns.com
    • Timberlight Designs
Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2021, 11:32 AM »
Wow this thread has been very informative to me. I knew the difference between hobbiest and commercial user was great, but this has brought it to the forefront. The stories and comments have helped solidify in my head the strongly different approaches to woodworking one has to take, depending whether it is for paying bills or having fun.

An update:

I spoke with the president of Timberwolf tools yesterday. Neither he nor the employees he spoke with about my situation have known anyone wanting to do anything similar with a jigsaw. While he recommends the Mafell above every other jigsaw, he was not willing to fully recommend it for my application. His concern is that no jigsaw was ever designed to perform in such a way. However, he said I can try the jigsaw. The offer is there for me to purchase it, use it for a month on my project, and then decide. If I want to return it I can get about an 85% refund. The only comment he could make about heat issues was that some customers have noted the Mafell runs warm. From that he is not convinced it will run cool enough for me, but because he doesn't know, it's worth a try.

If the Mafell does run hot just as my Bosch, then the only advantage I'd be buying into would be the double-thick blade, which could reduce the number of passes from 2-4 to 1-2. So, even if I had to buy two Mafells, the savings of time could be worth it.

Knowing now that the Mafell may not beat the heat issue, yesterday I played around with using my Bosch. I'm making drawer fronts for 3 office cabinets. What I discovered was:

the gold Carvex blade is ~2.35mm thick and useful for the first pass
the Festool fine blade is then good for the second pass
only once or twice was a third pass necessary

The Mafell double-thick blade is 3mm, for a .7mm advantage over the Carvex blade

The question I have yet to learn is, does that extra kerf width alone make enough of a time savings to justify the Mafell?

Will likely only know if I have the Mafell and can run half my project with it and half with the Bosch, timed against each other.

Can anyone recommend a fine-cut blade for curves? The straight fine blade is ok but bound up a few times when at a tight radius.

« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 11:36 AM by JonathanJung »

Offline JonathanJung

  • Posts: 204
  • www.timberlightdesigns.com
    • Timberlight Designs
Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2021, 11:37 AM »
Jonathan. Very nice work on your website. I really like the Bosch saw, but I think you’d be pretty happy with the Mafell. Based on my experience with both of them, I think the Mafell is worth the premium price tag in every respect. That said, the suggestion of having two saws is a valid one for your particular use.

Thank you. That is helpful feedback.

Offline JonathanJung

  • Posts: 204
  • www.timberlightdesigns.com
    • Timberlight Designs
Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #40 on: July 20, 2021, 11:40 AM »
Jonathan,

One machine that hasn't been mentioned are portable band saws. These machines are designed explicitly for the application you're describing (precise, scrolling cuts in thick timbers), and while they're not inexpensive they'd likely served you better than a jig saw in the long term. I had an opportunity to try the Mafell Z5 when I took the training a few years ago, it's very intuitive and very precise. There is a local timber framer who uses one and just loves it.

https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-z5ec-portable-band-saw

To those who would scoff at the price, let's remember the OP is a professional asking about a heavy duty application, thus I am suggesting a professional piece of equipment.

Alternatively, is there a scenario where you could prepare 3/4" MDF templates for your cuts, rough-cut the finished pieces on a band saw, then use a shaper with a copy ring and spiral cutter to complete the finished pieces? I do this regularly for curved work and find it much easier.....

This was a very nice suggestion. I asked the president of Timberwolf about it, and the two issues are:
blade kerf - so narrow I'd be hard-pressed to split my joint
distance between the blades is only 6"

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 765
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2021, 12:04 PM »
Jonathan,

One machine that hasn't been mentioned are portable band saws. These machines are designed explicitly for the application you're describing (precise, scrolling cuts in thick timbers), and while they're not inexpensive they'd likely served you better than a jig saw in the long term. I had an opportunity to try the Mafell Z5 when I took the training a few years ago, it's very intuitive and very precise. There is a local timber framer who uses one and just loves it.

https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-z5ec-portable-band-saw

To those who would scoff at the price, let's remember the OP is a professional asking about a heavy duty application, thus I am suggesting a professional piece of equipment.

Alternatively, is there a scenario where you could prepare 3/4" MDF templates for your cuts, rough-cut the finished pieces on a band saw, then use a shaper with a copy ring and spiral cutter to complete the finished pieces? I do this regularly for curved work and find it much easier.....

This was a very nice suggestion. I asked the president of Timberwolf about it, and the two issues are:
blade kerf - so narrow I'd be hard-pressed to split my joint
distance between the blades is only 6"

Glad to hear you had an opportunity to chat with the team over at Timberwolf. They're a great resource, and I've found them to be less interested in making a sale, as they are in making sure you're getting the correct tool/machine for the job. Whatever the opposite of a pushy salesperson is, they are that.

I have the P1cc and while I really like it, I can't speak to whether it'll solve your heat issues. If nothing else, I suspect it'll be the most robust tool of its kind for the task. In terms of cooling down, I'm not an expert on the topic, but it's my understanding that running the tool under no load might help to dissipate heat faster (due to the fan cooling the motor) than just setting the tool down. In this scenario, you'd remove the blade and let it run a few minutes, in a place/manner where you wouldn't risk injuring yourself.

If you opt for the P1cc, give a look to the Collins Coping Foot, they make a version just for the P1cc, and I've found it to be really handy when performing sculpting applications..... https://www.collinstool.com/tools/coping-foot-mafell/

Neat project, looking forward to hearing what your learnings are  8)
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Offline woodbutcherbower

  • Posts: 69
Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2021, 01:34 PM »
Hi Jonathan - getting a supplier to allow you to 'buy, try, keep or refund' is a great position to be in. I wish that tool dealers over this side of the pond were so accommodating.

Just another answer to a question you asked regarding scrolling/curved cuts - the Cunex W1 (the special double mega-blade) is further modified after welding by machining it vertically into a V-shaped wedge, so the kerf is actually only 3mm at the cutting edge - it then tapers down to a thinner section at the rear, so it goes round corners super-easily. It's obvious that they've really thought about this. I bought mine 3 years ago at a trade show after watching the Mafell rep demonstrating the machine with the W1 blade cutting a perfect circle around a £2 coin (just over 1" diameter) in 50mm/2" oak. The cut edges were exactly 90 degrees to the surface.

One other tip - this blade is super-aggressive, and it's an upcut. You need to use the supplied splinterguard with it, otherwise it will make a real mess of the top edge of your cut. The splinterguard is very effective. It consists of a clear plastic moulding which slides tightly in between the jaws of the saw. When you insert it, you'll realise that it won't slide all the way home because the blade is in the way. What you then do is to turn on the saw, turn the machine through 90 degrees so that it's facing downwards - then push it firmly downwards onto a solid surface with the saw running. As you do this - blade immediately cuts through the guard as it pushes backwards and locks home, leaving a nice little blade-shaped slot in the guard. It's exactly the same principle as running a TS55 down your rail after fitting a new splinterguard.

And on the same topic - the splinterguard is designed to sit tightly in the jaw, so you'll need pliers to pull it back out. It's worth buying a pack of extra guards so you can have a few of them with different sized kerf slots for the different blades you use. You'll also need to pull out the guard if you break a blade and need to replace it - the Mafell's clamping system ensures (annoyingly at times) that if a blade does break, it will always break just below the bayonet. Hope all that helps.

Let us know how you get on with the machine if you decide to go for it.


« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 01:51 PM by woodbutcherbower »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8724
Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2021, 02:43 PM »
I just happened to be using the P1cc so I grabbed some blades and put the caliper to them.



I like the Mafell W1 blade but because of the wide kerf, cutting does slow down a bit. For that reason I usually use the W2 or sometimes the Festool Trion blade.

Mafell recommends both the W1 & W2 blades for curves.

Festool recommends the S 75/4 K blade for curves.

Here's a thickness comparison between:
1. W1 & W2
2. Trion & W2
3. S 75/4 K & W2








Here I measured the kerf of each blade and the thickness of each blade. The W2 blade is interesting because the blade is very thick but the rear edge of the blade is tapered, like the W1, for cutting curves.



« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 02:57 PM by Cheese »