Author Topic: Does the Carvex get hot?  (Read 3343 times)

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Offline Joebuck

  • Posts: 37
Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2021, 06:38 PM »
Jonathan. Very nice work on your website. I really like the Bosch saw, but I think you’d be pretty happy with the Mafell. Based on my experience with both of them, I think the Mafell is worth the premium price tag in every respect. That said, the suggestion of having two saws is a valid one for your particular use.

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Offline woodbutcherbower

  • Posts: 69
Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2021, 07:18 PM »
My genuine and sincere apologies to anyone who I've inadvertently offended by being honest. It never ceases to amaze me at just how wide the FOG forum chasm still is between the guy who does this to feed his family and keep a roof over his head - and the guy who likes to make stuff in his garage and has disposable ££££/$$$$ to spend on quality tools.

Professional users - like me - buy and use tools which are skilled, strong, but versatile football players - not ballerinas. If I have 20 or 30 x 6" holes to core-drill through a yard-thick stone wall and I only have one day to do it - I don't expect my Hilti drilling rig to need a relaxing R&R cooling-down rest, an aromatherapy massage or a psychotherapy-powertool-spiritual-wellness-session in between each hole. It has to work all day, every day - that's why it costs the big bucks, and that's why it contains a gearbox which looks like it came out of a miniature Kenworth/Scania truck. A gearbox which has now worked flawlessly for 20 years in a tool which now looks like junk, but which still works as well as the day I bought it.

So no - I don’t need to buy two of anything.

After a lifetime doing this - I also don’t feel the need to justify anything I do, or anything I say to other random unknown hobbyist/semi-pro people on here (and good for you all - I'm sure you're great and very skilled at what you do, and you have a lot of fun doing it) - but instead, I'll just leave you all with this picture of a vaulted green oak roof - constructed with the P1CC performing a crucial and integral role, since that is what OP Jonathan's thread was all about. I'm pretty sure that most other FOG members don't need to rent a $2500-per-day crane to install their projects.

Best wishes to all.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2021, 04:02 AM by woodbutcherbower »

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2652
Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2021, 07:55 PM »
Woodbutcher that is magnificent work, mucho kudos

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 588
Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2021, 09:02 PM »
I'm glad this is the FOG (Festool Owners Group) rather than the FUG (Festool Users Group).

The number of people who own Festool tools that see less use before the warranty expires (myself included) than some pros see in a single day would probably bother people even more.

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 1006
Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2021, 06:02 AM »
Any brushless jigsaw has a natural ability to run cooler.
A jig saw does also have a lot of mechanics involved too, generating heat from friction so a brushless motor needs mechanics that run cool too.

Judging by the wast number of used PS 300/Trion for sale from pro’s here, which still works. It tells me that it is the preferred jig saws on work sites.
However, those pro’s that are seeking high end cut quality and durability buy the Mafell. According to my dealer, they run cooler for long run times in addition to be extremely good and in a class of its own.

Woodbutcherbower - That’s a roof to recline for, without closing the eyes [smile]
Having followed Grand Designs this is right up my alley, great work!
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 577
Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2021, 09:23 AM »

So no - I don’t need to buy two of anything.

 I'm pretty sure that most other FOG members don't need to rent a $2500-per-day crane to install their projects.

Best wishes to all.

That's just another difference in what we all do and and how we do it.
As a cabinet shop pro, I do quite a bit of laminate and veneer work. This requires multiple router bits and specific set-ups with specialty bases. Many of these are used in sequence and repetitively too. Having multiple routers is by far the better way to go. Fortunately, these can be simple laminate trimmers, so the cost is not really a factor.
The same holds true with the solid surface work, not as extreme, but multiple full-sized routers are used there too. Sure, one could do it, but you would be forever changing bits.

As far as big rental equipment to install things? Yes, there have been more than a few that required some fairly extreme measures to get things into the building. Sometimes these are because of an error somewhere. Some are planned from the beginning. Most of the time, this is removing a big window or multi-panel doorway. On remodels of existing buildings, this is planned, but a couple of times it happened because of an order of operations mistake, where a window or doorway was finished too early on new construction.
Cranes and/or scissor lifts come in to play on high wall situations or when that window that got removed was on the second or third floor. Most of the big things that I build are in multiple pieces, just to cut down on this, but sometimes, it's not possible or practical.
After a few times of renting a scissor lift and seeing it become more frequent, the company actually bought one. It worked out great, because it is very handy in our own building when it's not on-site somewhere.

I'm pretty sure that this is why you said "most FOG members" though....
CSX
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Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 765
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2021, 01:10 PM »
Jonathan,

One machine that hasn't been mentioned are portable band saws. These machines are designed explicitly for the application you're describing (precise, scrolling cuts in thick timbers), and while they're not inexpensive they'd likely served you better than a jig saw in the long term. I had an opportunity to try the Mafell Z5 when I took the training a few years ago, it's very intuitive and very precise. There is a local timber framer who uses one and just loves it.

https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-z5ec-portable-band-saw

To those who would scoff at the price, let's remember the OP is a professional asking about a heavy duty application, thus I am suggesting a professional piece of equipment.

Alternatively, is there a scenario where you could prepare 3/4" MDF templates for your cuts, rough-cut the finished pieces on a band saw, then use a shaper with a copy ring and spiral cutter to complete the finished pieces? I do this regularly for curved work and find it much easier.....
« Last Edit: July 18, 2021, 01:20 PM by Tom Gensmer »
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 7549
Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2021, 02:19 PM »
Jonathan,

One machine that hasn't been mentioned are portable band saws. These machines are designed explicitly for the application you're describing (precise, scrolling cuts in thick timbers), and while they're not inexpensive they'd likely served you better than a jig saw in the long term. I had an opportunity to try the Mafell Z5 when I took the training a few years ago, it's very intuitive and very precise. There is a local timber framer who uses one and just loves it.


https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-z5ec-portable-band-saw

I vote your solution the best, but Jonathan needs two so one can cool down.  [tongue]

Offline JonathanJung

  • Posts: 202
  • www.timberlightdesigns.com
    • Timberlight Designs
Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2021, 11:32 AM »
Wow this thread has been very informative to me. I knew the difference between hobbiest and commercial user was great, but this has brought it to the forefront. The stories and comments have helped solidify in my head the strongly different approaches to woodworking one has to take, depending whether it is for paying bills or having fun.

An update:

I spoke with the president of Timberwolf tools yesterday. Neither he nor the employees he spoke with about my situation have known anyone wanting to do anything similar with a jigsaw. While he recommends the Mafell above every other jigsaw, he was not willing to fully recommend it for my application. His concern is that no jigsaw was ever designed to perform in such a way. However, he said I can try the jigsaw. The offer is there for me to purchase it, use it for a month on my project, and then decide. If I want to return it I can get about an 85% refund. The only comment he could make about heat issues was that some customers have noted the Mafell runs warm. From that he is not convinced it will run cool enough for me, but because he doesn't know, it's worth a try.

If the Mafell does run hot just as my Bosch, then the only advantage I'd be buying into would be the double-thick blade, which could reduce the number of passes from 2-4 to 1-2. So, even if I had to buy two Mafells, the savings of time could be worth it.

Knowing now that the Mafell may not beat the heat issue, yesterday I played around with using my Bosch. I'm making drawer fronts for 3 office cabinets. What I discovered was:

the gold Carvex blade is ~2.35mm thick and useful for the first pass
the Festool fine blade is then good for the second pass
only once or twice was a third pass necessary

The Mafell double-thick blade is 3mm, for a .7mm advantage over the Carvex blade

The question I have yet to learn is, does that extra kerf width alone make enough of a time savings to justify the Mafell?

Will likely only know if I have the Mafell and can run half my project with it and half with the Bosch, timed against each other.

Can anyone recommend a fine-cut blade for curves? The straight fine blade is ok but bound up a few times when at a tight radius.

« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 11:36 AM by JonathanJung »

Offline JonathanJung

  • Posts: 202
  • www.timberlightdesigns.com
    • Timberlight Designs
Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2021, 11:37 AM »
Jonathan. Very nice work on your website. I really like the Bosch saw, but I think you’d be pretty happy with the Mafell. Based on my experience with both of them, I think the Mafell is worth the premium price tag in every respect. That said, the suggestion of having two saws is a valid one for your particular use.

Thank you. That is helpful feedback.

Offline JonathanJung

  • Posts: 202
  • www.timberlightdesigns.com
    • Timberlight Designs
Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #40 on: July 20, 2021, 11:40 AM »
Jonathan,

One machine that hasn't been mentioned are portable band saws. These machines are designed explicitly for the application you're describing (precise, scrolling cuts in thick timbers), and while they're not inexpensive they'd likely served you better than a jig saw in the long term. I had an opportunity to try the Mafell Z5 when I took the training a few years ago, it's very intuitive and very precise. There is a local timber framer who uses one and just loves it.

https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-z5ec-portable-band-saw

To those who would scoff at the price, let's remember the OP is a professional asking about a heavy duty application, thus I am suggesting a professional piece of equipment.

Alternatively, is there a scenario where you could prepare 3/4" MDF templates for your cuts, rough-cut the finished pieces on a band saw, then use a shaper with a copy ring and spiral cutter to complete the finished pieces? I do this regularly for curved work and find it much easier.....

This was a very nice suggestion. I asked the president of Timberwolf about it, and the two issues are:
blade kerf - so narrow I'd be hard-pressed to split my joint
distance between the blades is only 6"

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 765
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2021, 12:04 PM »
Jonathan,

One machine that hasn't been mentioned are portable band saws. These machines are designed explicitly for the application you're describing (precise, scrolling cuts in thick timbers), and while they're not inexpensive they'd likely served you better than a jig saw in the long term. I had an opportunity to try the Mafell Z5 when I took the training a few years ago, it's very intuitive and very precise. There is a local timber framer who uses one and just loves it.

https://www.timberwolftools.com/mafell-z5ec-portable-band-saw

To those who would scoff at the price, let's remember the OP is a professional asking about a heavy duty application, thus I am suggesting a professional piece of equipment.

Alternatively, is there a scenario where you could prepare 3/4" MDF templates for your cuts, rough-cut the finished pieces on a band saw, then use a shaper with a copy ring and spiral cutter to complete the finished pieces? I do this regularly for curved work and find it much easier.....

This was a very nice suggestion. I asked the president of Timberwolf about it, and the two issues are:
blade kerf - so narrow I'd be hard-pressed to split my joint
distance between the blades is only 6"

Glad to hear you had an opportunity to chat with the team over at Timberwolf. They're a great resource, and I've found them to be less interested in making a sale, as they are in making sure you're getting the correct tool/machine for the job. Whatever the opposite of a pushy salesperson is, they are that.

I have the P1cc and while I really like it, I can't speak to whether it'll solve your heat issues. If nothing else, I suspect it'll be the most robust tool of its kind for the task. In terms of cooling down, I'm not an expert on the topic, but it's my understanding that running the tool under no load might help to dissipate heat faster (due to the fan cooling the motor) than just setting the tool down. In this scenario, you'd remove the blade and let it run a few minutes, in a place/manner where you wouldn't risk injuring yourself.

If you opt for the P1cc, give a look to the Collins Coping Foot, they make a version just for the P1cc, and I've found it to be really handy when performing sculpting applications..... https://www.collinstool.com/tools/coping-foot-mafell/

Neat project, looking forward to hearing what your learnings are  8)
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Offline woodbutcherbower

  • Posts: 69
Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2021, 01:34 PM »
Hi Jonathan - getting a supplier to allow you to 'buy, try, keep or refund' is a great position to be in. I wish that tool dealers over this side of the pond were so accommodating.

Just another answer to a question you asked regarding scrolling/curved cuts - the Cunex W1 (the special double mega-blade) is further modified after welding by machining it vertically into a V-shaped wedge, so the kerf is actually only 3mm at the cutting edge - it then tapers down to a thinner section at the rear, so it goes round corners super-easily. It's obvious that they've really thought about this. I bought mine 3 years ago at a trade show after watching the Mafell rep demonstrating the machine with the W1 blade cutting a perfect circle around a £2 coin (just over 1" diameter) in 50mm/2" oak. The cut edges were exactly 90 degrees to the surface.

One other tip - this blade is super-aggressive, and it's an upcut. You need to use the supplied splinterguard with it, otherwise it will make a real mess of the top edge of your cut. The splinterguard is very effective. It consists of a clear plastic moulding which slides tightly in between the jaws of the saw. When you insert it, you'll realise that it won't slide all the way home because the blade is in the way. What you then do is to turn on the saw, turn the machine through 90 degrees so that it's facing downwards - then push it firmly downwards onto a solid surface with the saw running. As you do this - blade immediately cuts through the guard as it pushes backwards and locks home, leaving a nice little blade-shaped slot in the guard. It's exactly the same principle as running a TS55 down your rail after fitting a new splinterguard.

And on the same topic - the splinterguard is designed to sit tightly in the jaw, so you'll need pliers to pull it back out. It's worth buying a pack of extra guards so you can have a few of them with different sized kerf slots for the different blades you use. You'll also need to pull out the guard if you break a blade and need to replace it - the Mafell's clamping system ensures (annoyingly at times) that if a blade does break, it will always break just below the bayonet. Hope all that helps.

Let us know how you get on with the machine if you decide to go for it.


« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 01:51 PM by woodbutcherbower »

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 8722
Re: Does the Carvex get hot?
« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2021, 02:43 PM »
I just happened to be using the P1cc so I grabbed some blades and put the caliper to them.



I like the Mafell W1 blade but because of the wide kerf, cutting does slow down a bit. For that reason I usually use the W2 or sometimes the Festool Trion blade.

Mafell recommends both the W1 & W2 blades for curves.

Festool recommends the S 75/4 K blade for curves.

Here's a thickness comparison between:
1. W1 & W2
2. Trion & W2
3. S 75/4 K & W2








Here I measured the kerf of each blade and the thickness of each blade. The W2 blade is interesting because the blade is very thick but the rear edge of the blade is tapered, like the W1, for cutting curves.



« Last Edit: July 20, 2021, 02:57 PM by Cheese »