Author Topic: DF700 vs. DF500  (Read 13504 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline derekcohen

  • Posts: 618
    • In The Woodshop
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2022, 10:21 PM »
ADDING the Domino 700XL to do the heavier work isn't a horrible thing IF you have the work for it.

For me, I only have the 700XL and have never really used the smaller sub-8mm Dominos to-date, although I have the means to do so with the Seneca adapter and Festool cutters. I use the system for heavier/bigger jobs as I rarely do cabinetry and when I do, I'm perfectly happy with screws and glue.

Apologies for resurrecting this older thread. I have been waiting for a df500 but I can't help but think maybe I should just go pick up the df700 Virtually anything I do 3/4 and smaller is glued and screwed or joined with dovetails or finger joints. I am working with predominately 4/4 and 8/4 hardwoods now or some softwoods but mostly hardwoods. Cherry, Maple, Black Walnut, Bubinga, and it's all between 4/4 and 9/4 in thickness. Tables, shelves, doors, I like heavier shelves I am tired of sheet goods in my house. And I think the store's idea of double dominoes is ok I think I would rather have larger dominoes. Is my way of thinking off? I do have an origin if I want smaller holes now and then I can make a jig for the of144 if I need repeated quickness or the origin itself for one-offs. Any thoughts from you all would be appreciated. But I am inclined to step up to the DF700 and have been tossing this thought around since I decided on the DF500 but it wasn't available in the store but on order so I am waiting. They had the DF700 and it might fit my needs better. I just don't want this to be a case of just being impatient. Thanks everyone.

I have the DF500 and am not considering the DF700, possibly ever. Like you, I work with hard woods and predominantly 3/4” thicknesses. I am far more into traditional joinery than mechanical fasteners, and prefer good old mortice-and-tenons and dovetails, both cut with hand tools. As a result, should I build something as large as a door or a large table (both of which I have done and see more in the future) requiring heavy-duty joinery, I would simply use a hand-made/machined M&T joint. Hence no DF700.

Regards from Perth

Derek
Visit www.inthewoodshop.com for tutorials on joinery, hand tools, and my trials and tribulations with furniture builds.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Bertotti

  • Posts: 368
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2022, 10:54 PM »
Yes and that is my approach currently. I wonder how much more efficient I can be with the DF either of them. I want to get more efficient. Perhaps this is not the path, I predominately just edge glued panels 3/4 and under with a biscuit to help alignment but lately, the biscuits don't fit right, they all seem too narrow and they don't do any aligning at all just waste my time. Everything moving forward is 4/4 or bigger. This would only be for panels. All other techniques are large mechanical hand cut or jig cut joints. That said if the 700 can save me some time I do not have to do all hand-cut joints. I like to be able to break down the tables so I use wedges or pins I can knock out. It is a large enough cost that I need to be sure I am buying something I will use. Thanks for the help.
I want to populate SD with trees because I miss the forests of the river bottoms.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 9998
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2022, 08:39 AM »
Pull the pin on the DF 700 and give it a good workout for 30 days, nothing to lose there.  [smile]

I used biscuits for years but once I purchased & used the DF 500, the biscuit jointer went down the road within a couple of days. Good riddance...like your experience, the biscuits were more work than they were worth. At the time that's the best that was offered, but time has moved on.

Offline Bertotti

  • Posts: 368
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2022, 09:12 AM »
The funny thing is the biscuit joiner worked great for years until I needed more biscuits. I can't find a decent biscuit anywhere and maybe the joiner is getting some slop making the hole wider. But it's gone already A novelty I hope I can share with grandkids someday, hey look at this silly thing we used to use unless I scrape it for the motor, there are always uses for a solid motor. Now I just use chisels and routers to make what I want. Will this process be faster once I figure it out? I have never used the 30 return in this case that might be the best choice. Thanks for reminding me. My local store has one and only one. I won't be able to get there until Thursday and if it is still there I will consider it a sign if not I'll pass. When I can't make up my mind I leave it to fate or the luck of the draw.
I want to populate SD with trees because I miss the forests of the river bottoms.

Offline Bertotti

  • Posts: 368
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2022, 03:26 PM »
Thanks, everyone. I went in for it today but the DF700 sold before I got there. So they are going to put the next one that comes in on hold and I did tell them I wanted the domino systainer with it. Is the Connector systainer worth getting? I have never liked the knock-down stuff in the boxed desks and such that we get at local stores but I am guessing Festools is probably a much higher quality? But I don't know that let me know what you think if you have the time. On a bright note they did have the pl850 so I now have the planer for a project I am starting. I'll share in the projects area once it gets going. Thanks again!
I want to populate SD with trees because I miss the forests of the river bottoms.

Offline Jim_in_PA

  • Posts: 268
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2022, 05:05 PM »
Both size of the Connector system are very worthy for anything knock down or that needs to be final assembled on-site due to size or clearances. Festool did a really good job designing both sizes for sure. That said, don't buy those things until you have an actual application for them.
----
ETS 150/3, Rotex 150, OF1010, OF1400, Trion PS 300, TDK-12, CT-22, MFT 1080, TS55, Domino XL DF 700, 8' track, (2) 55" tracks

SCM MiniMax SC3C, FS350, MM16, Camaster Stinger II SR-44 CNC

Offline Bertotti

  • Posts: 368
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2022, 05:59 PM »
Thanks! I'll pass on those for now any current big project is in my own home so everything I need is already here for constructing bar tops and tables.
I want to populate SD with trees because I miss the forests of the river bottoms.

Offline Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 1843
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2022, 06:16 PM »
I did essentially the same, but not voluntarily. I had a DeWalt biscuit joiner for years, but as soon as I got the DF500 it just sat in the case totally abandoned. It was destroyed in a fire, thus the involuntary part, and I didn't see the need to replace it. The DF500 was one of the first things replaced.
If I absolutely had to cut biscuit slots, I could put the regular blade into the Lamello Zeta. I do have one, but never used it. I haven't used any of the Festool connectors because of the Zeta too.
I have seen them in use, but never done it myself.
I have thought about getting a DF700 for years, but just never pulled the trigger. Apparently I don't actually need one? I'd still like to have it though, I'm close enough to retiring that I may never do it.
CSX
DF500 + assortment set
PS420 + Base kit
OF1010
OF1010F
OF1400
MFK700 (2)
TS55, FS1080, FS1400 holey, FS1900, FS3000
CT26E + Workshop cleaning set
RO90
RO125
ETS EC 125
RAS115
ETS 125 (2)
TS75
Shaper Origin/Workstation
MFT clamps set
Installers set
Centrotech organizer set

Offline Lincoln

  • Posts: 276
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2022, 07:14 PM »
I had the 500, but sold it to buy the 700 - it's a much better tool in every way, except weight. But, you get used to it very quickly. I have the Seneca plate and cutter adapter, so I can use the 6mm cutter for exposed domino joints on drawer boxes.
I still find biscuits to be very handy.
I use a Mafell doweller for cabinet work.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3885
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2022, 07:34 AM »
I find there are two types of tool buyers. One type buys a tool when he/she has an immediate need and cannot do the job without that tool. The second type, a new tool they can imagine a need for somewhere in the future and places an immediate order. The second type cruises the woodworking shows and stores just to look and often returns with a treasure.
Birdhunter

Offline mino

  • Posts: 1127
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2022, 08:35 AM »
I had the 500, but sold it to buy the 700 - it's a much better tool in every way, except weight.

 ...

I use a Mafell doweller for cabinet work.
The DF500 is a cabinet maker's tool.

So your choice there was not really DF500 vs. DF700 but it was DF500 versus Maffel DD40.

A completely different discussion and - for a pro - it makes a lot of sense to lean on the DD40 between the two for bulk work and add DF700 to tag along where the DD40 cannot be used.
When The Machine has no brains, use yours.

Offline Bertotti

  • Posts: 368
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2022, 08:53 AM »
I find there are two types of tool buyers. One type buys a tool when he/she has an immediate need and cannot do the job without that tool. The second type, a new tool they can imagine a need for somewhere in the future and places an immediate order. The second type cruises the woodworking shows and stores just to look and often returns with a treasure.

Quilty as charged for both!
My usual scenario is to start a project get tired of doing the same thing over and over and look for a faster way, find it in a new tool only to find it isn't there and I have to order and by the time I get it I waded through the slow old process, but its there for the next time.

I find I still hesitate to pull the trigger on an expensive tool but I am also disappointed it wasn't there. I doubt I will get anything I was going to use it for done before it arrives so I will use it soon but sadly that's because I found some 18" floor trusses flexing when a person walks across that section of floor. There were water leaks so now flooring comes out to inspect the subfloor then fix or tackle the trusses themselves, most likely a combination of both. The original contractor installed a broken one and scabbed a 2x4 8" long along the broken part. I hate it when people take the easy way out on a new build now 14 years later it's that much more of a pain. I digress sorry.

I am anxious for the store to get the 700 that says something!
I want to populate SD with trees because I miss the forests of the river bottoms.

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 1498
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2022, 10:03 AM »
The second type, a new tool they can imagine a need for somewhere in the future and places an immediate order. The second type cruises the woodworking shows and stores just to look and often returns with a treasure.

Well, this is the Festool Owner's Group, after all, not the Festool User's Group.   [cool]

Offline sawdustinmyshoes

  • Posts: 113
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #43 on: August 09, 2022, 11:31 AM »
I’ve considered the 700 but have never felt shorted with the 500, even on larger pieces.  I’ve used the 500 for all the joinery on larger pieces as well as chairs.  I just double them when appropriate.  The trestle table is 6’ in length and assembled with all 10mm tenons.  The chairs are a mix of all tenon sizes, but mostly 10mm for the seat rails.  Plunge depth is a limiting factor compared to the 700.  But I haven’t experienced any issues with the chairs, and I’ve had diners that weighed 200+ (90kg). I’ve also had a chair that has had near daily use of 10+ years with no issues (the finished chair in the one in-process photo).  That said, I’m currently building a round table with 6/4 and 8/4 ash using 10mm and am ready to build another set of accompanying chairs using the same joinery.  I’m considering buying the 10mm tenon stock in extended lengths and cutting to size, allowing me to gain that extra 3mm of depth that the plunge mechanism of the 500 provides for (28mm vs 25mm for the stock tenon sizes of 10 x 50 mm). 

Although the 700 does have features that I would like, it is just to heavy/bulky for me compared to the 500, and I’m not getting any younger.  I’ve used the 500 in many odd ways of holding that I doubt I could with the 700.  Good luck with whatever you choose.

Online ChuckS

  • Posts: 3800
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2022, 11:57 AM »
Snip. Plunge depth is a limiting factor compared to the 700.  Snip.

I faced the same dilemma about the depth when I built a set of 6 chairs. To err on the safe side, I wanted to use 10x 80 (shop-made) tenons instead of 10x50 for one particular joint in each chair. My solution was to use a simple drilling guide/10mm drill bit, and make the 10x50 mortises deeper:



So far, out of all the domino projects I've done (about two dozen of them), I've used the poor man's DF700 twice.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2022, 12:20 PM by ChuckS »

Offline sawdustinmyshoes

  • Posts: 113
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2022, 02:36 PM »
Snip. Plunge depth is a limiting factor compared to the 700.  Snip.

I faced the same dilemma about the depth when I built a set of 6 chairs. To err on the safe side, I wanted to use 10x 80 (shop-made) tenons instead of 10x50 for one particular joint in each chair. My solution was to use a simple drilling guide/10mm drill bit, and make the 10x50 mortises deeper:

(Attachment Link)

So far, out of all the domino projects I've done (about two dozen of them), I've used the poor man's DF700 twice.

Thanks, Chuck!  That's a great idea.

Online woodferret

  • Posts: 182
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #46 on: August 09, 2022, 05:07 PM »
I heard trusses and DF700 and straight up went Nope.

Offline Bertotti

  • Posts: 368
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2022, 05:57 PM »
I heard trusses and DF700 and straight up went Nope.

Don't worry I am not using a DF700 to repair floor trusses. No, that is what got in my way of building out a semi-midevil kitchen project which I will use the DF700 on! Apologies for the confusion.
I want to populate SD with trees because I miss the forests of the river bottoms.

Online woodferret

  • Posts: 182
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #48 on: August 09, 2022, 07:32 PM »
Ah, that's comforting to hear.  As for real old skool kitchens now it makes sense why you went with the DF700.

Offline Lincoln

  • Posts: 276
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2022, 07:53 PM »
I had the 500, but sold it to buy the 700 - it's a much better tool in every way, except weight.

 ...

I use a Mafell doweller for cabinet work.
The DF500 is a cabinet maker's tool.

So your choice there was not really DF500 vs. DF700 but it was DF500 versus Maffel DD40.

A completely different discussion and - for a pro - it makes a lot of sense to lean on the DD40 between the two for bulk work and add DF700 to tag along where the DD40 cannot be used.

Still doesn't change the fact (for me) that the 700 is a far better engineered tool. Easier to plunge, MUCH better locating pins, better fence system, on/off switch in a better location, top handle, etc, etc. It's a shame it's so expensive. I don't mind the weight, but when you pick up the Mafell or Lamello, you realise how much weight you've been slinging around!
For cabinet work only, the 500 is an 'ok' choice, but for general wood joining it's fine, just not as good as the 700 [smile]

Offline bullseye

  • Posts: 4
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #50 on: August 09, 2022, 07:57 PM »
The second type, a new tool they can imagine a need for somewhere in the future and places an immediate order.

I feel attacked!   [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

Just bought a P1CC which I won't need until later in the year. But I needed it to grace my garage as soon as possible!


I faced the same dilemma about the depth when I built a set of 6 chairs. To err on the safe side, I wanted to use 10x 80 (shop-made) tenons instead of 10x50 for one particular joint in each chair. My solution was to use a simple drilling guide/10mm drill bit, and make the 10x50 mortises deeper:

So far, out of all the domino projects I've done (about two dozen of them), I've used the poor man's DF700 twice.

I'd had an idea of using a router to do a similar thing of extending the depth. Anyone tried that?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2022, 08:01 PM by bullseye »

Online woodferret

  • Posts: 182
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #51 on: August 09, 2022, 08:55 PM »
I'd had an idea of using a router to do a similar thing of extending the depth. Anyone tried that?

I contemplated that once too but you'd need a stubby mortise bit with bearing and you'd get at most another 28mm.  I didn't go through with it as i need the 70mm depth.  Its also got issues if your mortise is on the end of a long beam, taller than a bench height.  At this point, we're deadly close to making a custom horizontal bore jig for a 1/2 plunge router ;)

Online ChuckS

  • Posts: 3800
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #52 on: August 09, 2022, 09:06 PM »
Snip.
I'd had an idea of using a router to do a similar thing of extending the depth. Anyone tried that?

If a drill bit with a guide can deepen Domino mortises, I see no reason why it can't be done with a router. I'd start with something like this:



All that's needed is a plunge router with a fence or a guide and two stops to control the travel.

Needless to say, if one plans to do projects that require the DF700 most of the time, one should get a DF700, not a DF500 in the same vein that the DF500 should be the choice if the DF700's drilling capacity is not needed for the majority of projects to be undertaken.

Offline Ebuwan

  • Posts: 120
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #53 on: August 10, 2022, 10:07 AM »
I have both.

I did a full kitchen cabinet build last year, using the domino method that Sedge shows in videos, and at that time i did NOT have the 500.

I used the Seneca adapter with the 700 to get 5mm and 6mm domino mortises.

Lets just say, the 700 does the job, but after a few panels, and having to switch between holding vertical, horizontal over and over, MAN the 700 gets heavy. I'm not old and not small either.

I bought the 500 a couple months later, and I wish I had it for the cabinet build, my elbow would have thanked me. As mentioned earlier in this thread, i use the 500 way more now that I have it, but when you need the 700 ya need the 700 (tables, beds, etc).

Online ChuckS

  • Posts: 3800
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #54 on: August 10, 2022, 10:40 AM »
If Festool released a DF600 covering tenon sizes from 6mm to 10mm (x80mm), I'd sell my DF500 (weight: 7 lb) and get it, assuming its weight being 7 to 8 lb or so (DF700 is 11.4 lb).
« Last Edit: August 10, 2022, 10:43 AM by ChuckS »

Offline Bertotti

  • Posts: 368
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #55 on: August 10, 2022, 10:52 AM »
I have both.

I did a full kitchen cabinet build last year, using the domino method that Sedge shows in videos, and at that time i did NOT have the 500.

I used the Seneca adapter with the 700 to get 5mm and 6mm domino mortises.

Lets just say, the 700 does the job, but after a few panels, and having to switch between holding vertical, horizontal over and over, MAN the 700 gets heavy. I'm not old and not small either.

I bought the 500 a couple months later, and I wish I had it for the cabinet build, my elbow would have thanked me. As mentioned earlier in this thread, i use the 500 way more now that I have it, but when you need the 700 ya need the 700 (tables, beds, etc).

Yep I agree, I am so fed up with normal cabinets that I convinced my wife, this is for my own home, That I'm redoing everything in the house with Cherry. It is all ruff sawn 4/4 up to 9/4. These will be similar to what a person might see in a D&D game video. Big, strong, and capable of holding up the roof in a pinch! One section will actually be a wall in front of a pantry with a unit that swings in. I have yet to work that out and is a topic for another thread. I think in my case the DF700 will be the correct choice. I hope some of the DR's I know will want some custom work when they see these!
I want to populate SD with trees because I miss the forests of the river bottoms.

Offline Bertotti

  • Posts: 368
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #56 on: August 18, 2022, 01:27 PM »
Picked up the DF 700 today. It doesn't seem as unwieldy as it was made out to be. Seems very solid and well built. But between the domino box and the DF box it was pushing what I am currently allowed to carry so I won't be using it for a couple more weeks.
I want to populate SD with trees because I miss the forests of the river bottoms.

Offline luvmytoolz

  • Posts: 131
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #57 on: August 18, 2022, 08:48 PM »
Picked up the DF 700 today. It doesn't seem as unwieldy as it was made out to be. Seems very solid and well built. But between the domino box and the DF box it was pushing what I am currently allowed to carry so I won't be using it for a couple more weeks.

Congrats on the new baby! I actually really like the DF700 and find it easier to manage than the 500. For me it gives a more stable hold and action, whereas the 500 kinda feels like pushing a biscuit joiner/grinder.

Absolutely love them both, but I definitely prefer using the 700 over the 500.

Offline jcrowe1950

  • Festool Dealer Affiliate
  • *
  • Posts: 223
    • Woodcraft Chattanooga, TN
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #58 on: August 23, 2022, 10:22 PM »
Picked up the DF 700 today. It doesn't seem as unwieldy as it was made out to be. Seems very solid and well built. But between the domino box and the DF box it was pushing what I am currently allowed to carry so I won't be using it for a couple more weeks.

    I think this may have been discussed earlier but the D500 was the first Domino and lessons were learned when designing the D700. The barrel grip nature of the D500 can tempt the user to grab the tool like a jigsaw, but that can introduce upward or downward tilt, which is suboptimal. The D700 is more "ergonomically" correct in that the D handle becomes an extension of the user's lower arm and it makes optimal plunging easier. I agree with the individual who commented on the pins on the D700 being remarkably useful. Further, with the D700, the extra wide setting was eliminated because mostly nobody ever used it. It was tight + 10mm....whereas the loose setting is tight + 6mm. However, if one owns both, the weight of the D500 makes it a great choice for those applications where it is most useful....cabinets and drawers for sure. One other quick subject, I have had a chance to play with the D14 knockdown connectors and they are massively impressive.....limited applicability but boy are they strong....
Festool Specialist at Woodcraft, Chattanooga, TN

Latest Festool purchase...Rotex 150.

Online ChuckS

  • Posts: 3800
Re: DF700 vs. DF500
« Reply #59 on: August 23, 2022, 10:33 PM »

Snip.  Further, with the D700, the extra wide setting was eliminated because mostly nobody ever used it.
Snip.

The DF700's heavier weight, considered a negative by some, has one positive ring to it: When mortising in the vertical position, the machine doesn't move as easily as the DF500.

Not too many people use the extra wide setting on the DF500, because not too many are aware of its good uses. See some examples here: https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/do-you-use-4mm-slots-or-4mm-dominoes-another-use-of-4mm-domino-slots/