Author Topic: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?  (Read 7448 times)

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Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6549
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #60 on: May 28, 2020, 01:05 AM »
That saw looks hilarious. I’d be afraid to use it.Not enough stable weight to it. How do you put a $200 woodworker blade o it?

It is a MOBILE saw, so don't compare it to a stationary saw. At 37 kg it is one of the heaviest in its class and pushing the limit of what a grown man can easily carry around.

How do you put a blade on it? Same as always, you slip it on the arbor and tighten the nut. Duh.

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Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1705
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #61 on: May 28, 2020, 03:43 AM »
Maybe blade stop tech gets mandated, not standardized in method/parts, [...]
Which will happen as soon as this technology gets some adaption, by insurance going up for the ones using 'insecure' stuff.
So it'll likely be a de-facto must, though possibly not directly mandated by law.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 794
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #62 on: May 28, 2020, 10:43 AM »
Maybe blade stop tech gets mandated, not standardized in method/parts, [...]
Which will happen as soon as this technology gets some adaption, by insurance going up for the ones using 'insecure' stuff.
So it'll likely be a de-facto must, though possibly not directly mandated by law.

We will see.  I have to wonder if saw stop starting in the US had anything to do (in part) with the US not having electronic braking requirements. In that with it, some of the incidents would have been reduced.

Really don't get why Festool re-designs tools to remove this, I would like more of my tools to have it.  I suspect in the not to distant future that will at least get mandated.  Of course we just got dust regulations in the last couple years, things don't happen fast here.

Offline shu

  • Posts: 40
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #63 on: May 30, 2020, 07:07 PM »
Now 70 comes back haunting me all day long [embarassed]
Not because of the blade, but that I realised I would not move it on a daily base. I just need a good table saw, which has some mobility. So I can relocate it, say once a month. [blink]
« Last Edit: May 30, 2020, 07:14 PM by shu »

Offline shu

  • Posts: 40
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #64 on: May 30, 2020, 07:13 PM »
TKS-80, having been waiting for it for years, I'm disappointed that it comes without the pull function.
It might be too expensive / too heavy to pull / unnecessary though.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1705
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #65 on: May 31, 2020, 06:25 AM »
TKS-80, having been waiting for it for years, I'm disappointed that it comes without the pull function.
I don't see the lack of this feature as a showstopper.

The sliding table will work for most of my workpieces, for the rest my Kapex or TS+FS will happily do the cut in a safe manner.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 1092
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #66 on: May 31, 2020, 04:52 PM »
TKS-80, having been waiting for it for years, I'm disappointed that it comes without the pull function.
I don't see the lack of this feature as a showstopper.

The sliding table will work for most of my workpieces, for the rest my Kapex or TS+FS will happily do the cut in a safe manner.

Yes a shame. The reason I was told is, the SawStop safety technology can only be fitted to a stationary chassis, and fixed very firmly, because of the force when the cartridge activates.

It certainly stopped me buying one, and I’ll probably revert to plan A and buy a Mafell Erika 85ce. Probably the king of portable table saws. Not having the SawStop safety is a bummer but, being a push pull saw, adds a bit more safety than a conventional table saw.

Offline shu

  • Posts: 40
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #67 on: June 01, 2020, 12:04 AM »
TKS-80, having been waiting for it for years, I'm disappointed that it comes without the pull function.
I don't see the lack of this feature as a showstopper.

The sliding table will work for most of my workpieces, for the rest my Kapex or TS+FS will happily do the cut in a safe manner.

Yes a shame. The reason I was told is, the SawStop safety technology can only be fitted to a stationary chassis, and fixed very firmly, because of the force when the cartridge activates.

It certainly stopped me buying one, and I’ll probably revert to plan A and buy a Mafell Erika 85ce. Probably the king of portable table saws. Not having the SawStop safety is a bummer but, being a push pull saw, adds a bit more safety than a conventional table saw.
Oh that’s a piece of eye opening info to me. Read your message in other topic. It’s really attractive. Can it cut a dato?


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Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 794
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #68 on: June 01, 2020, 01:01 AM »
TKS-80, having been waiting for it for years, I'm disappointed that it comes without the pull function.
I don't see the lack of this feature as a showstopper.

The sliding table will work for most of my workpieces, for the rest my Kapex or TS+FS will happily do the cut in a safe manner.

Yes a shame. The reason I was told is, the SawStop safety technology can only be fitted to a stationary chassis, and fixed very firmly, because of the force when the cartridge activates.

It certainly stopped me buying one, and I’ll probably revert to plan A and buy a Mafell Erika 85ce. Probably the king of portable table saws. Not having the SawStop safety is a bummer but, being a push pull saw, adds a bit more safety than a conventional table saw.
Oh that’s a piece of eye opening info to me. Read your message in other topic. It’s really attractive. Can it cut a dato?


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If you are asking if a Erika 85 can cut a dado, the answer is no. The blade comes thru a slot between 2 extrusions, there is no place for a dado blade.  Also while not banned in the EU, they are basically non-existance because of the regulation that the blade has to stop in IIRC 6 seconds.  So Dado has to much mass, makes it hard to bring it to stop in time.  Also with a pull saw, you would have a big gap thru a big section of the saw.


Offline justinmcf

  • Posts: 718
  • Queensland Builder
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #69 on: June 01, 2020, 05:54 AM »
Hi shu.

With regards to your question.
It's a no brainer mate.

Get the Festool with Sawstop technology. I believe the model number is Festool TKS 80.

I reckon it will cost approx $3500 dollareedoo's when it becomes available in July.
I am just guessing at the cost and release date so don't quote me on those figures.

I have the CMS TS-75.
With regards to the weight. I built a plywood dolly. Picture plywood base on wheels. The CMS TS-75 sits on that when I have it on site and weight is no longer a problem!

I would upgrade to the TKS 80 in a heartbeat if I could afford it!

Online threesixright

  • Posts: 516
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #70 on: June 01, 2020, 06:51 AM »
TKS-80, having been waiting for it for years, I'm disappointed that it comes without the pull function.
It might be too expensive / too heavy to pull / unnecessary though.

I think the momentum when the safety kicks in (i.e. the force) is significant. When this would be on a pull saw (which has some moving parts) that could cause some serious construction issues.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 1092
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #71 on: June 01, 2020, 07:55 AM »
TKS-80, having been waiting for it for years, I'm disappointed that it comes without the pull function.
I don't see the lack of this feature as a showstopper.

The sliding table will work for most of my workpieces, for the rest my Kapex or TS+FS will happily do the cut in a safe manner.

Yes a shame. The reason I was told is, the SawStop safety technology can only be fitted to a stationary chassis, and fixed very firmly, because of the force when the cartridge activates.

It certainly stopped me buying one, and I’ll probably revert to plan A and buy a Mafell Erika 85ce. Probably the king of portable table saws. Not having the SawStop safety is a bummer but, being a push pull saw, adds a bit more safety than a conventional table saw.
Oh that’s a piece of eye opening info to me. Read your message in other topic. It’s really attractive. Can it cut a dato?


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It cannot cut a dado in the traditional way, and it wouldn’t be safe. However, if you have the space, it can take an add on router table, that could be used for dado cutting.

Offline shu

  • Posts: 40
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #72 on: June 01, 2020, 09:39 AM »
@Jiggy Joiner I got told today by a local dealer that the unit only cost for an Erika 85 is approx. AU$9500 in Australia. Yet waiting for the set price including accessories. Surely it will be more expensive than a CS70(set) + Kapex 120 + HK85(with groove cutter).

I just can't believe it!
« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 09:47 AM by shu »

Offline shu

  • Posts: 40
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #73 on: June 01, 2020, 09:43 AM »
Hi shu.

With regards to your question.
It's a no brainer mate.

Get the Festool with Sawstop technology. I believe the model number is Festool TKS 80.

I reckon it will cost approx $3500 dollareedoo's when it becomes available in July.
I am just guessing at the cost and release date so don't quote me on those figures.

I have the CMS TS-75.
With regards to the weight. I built a plywood dolly. Picture plywood base on wheels. The CMS TS-75 sits on that when I have it on site and weight is no longer a problem!

I would upgrade to the TKS 80 in a heartbeat if I could afford it!

Do you refer to unit only cost? Sydney tools pre order price is over 5K.

https://sydneytools.com.au/product/festool-tks-80-ebs-set-2200w-254mm-10-sawstop-table-saw-set

Offline shu

  • Posts: 40
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #74 on: June 01, 2020, 10:04 AM »

Offline Stan Tillinghast

  • Posts: 49
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #75 on: June 01, 2020, 11:41 AM »
$5499 Aus = $3727 US

Online threesixright

  • Posts: 516
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #76 on: June 01, 2020, 12:50 PM »
$5499 Aus = $3727 US
If you have a kapex (or similar) I would wait.


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Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1761
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #77 on: June 01, 2020, 12:56 PM »
I still think the decision process should be like this:

Is the finger-saving technology essential? If so, then waiting is the only option (unless the new Jobsite Pro orBosch alternative (outside US) is also available).

If not, proceed to consider all other options.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2020, 12:58 PM by ChuckM »

Online threesixright

  • Posts: 516
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #78 on: June 01, 2020, 01:20 PM »
I still think the decision process should be like this:

Is the finger-saving technology essential? If so, then waiting is the only option (unless the new Jobsite Pro orBosch alternative (outside US) is also available).

If not, proceed to consider all other options.
Don’t want to sell this, but it seems to me alleays essential. Rookie or seasoned 30 yr. woodworker, accidents happen.


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Offline Bert Vanderveen

  • Posts: 653
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #79 on: June 01, 2020, 01:44 PM »
In Germany the TKS 80 will set you back around € 1870 for the base config and € 3100 for the full Set. These prices include VAT (21% I think).
In USD that is $ 2081 and $ 3450. Mind you: these are not Festool’s RRP’s, but *real* prices from a solid retailer I often use.


RRP: Recommended Retail Price
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Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 944
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #80 on: June 01, 2020, 01:54 PM »
There really is no choice. Wait for the Festool SawStop or wait for Erika to implement a similar solution. I had a 20+ year run without an accident. It ended in a flash with a simple cut of some narrow stock. Luckily I had purchased my SawStop 6 years earlier after selling off my Delta Cabinet Saw. What would have been my thumb at a minimum, was only a groove the thickness of a quarter and just about 1/8" deep. Healed up completely with no scar.

For those who say they don't need it because they are careful are only lying to themselves. Many will get lucky and never have an incident, but there are plenty who do and it is life altering and possibly career ending. You can't really gamble when you are already down a finger can you?

For those who complain about the damage to the blade and single use brake are not thinking clearly as losing a blade and a brake are irrelevant when you still have your digit(s). It is also a reminder that no one is perfect.

Get the Festool SawStop product, stay vigilant and never give it another moments thought.

Online threesixright

  • Posts: 516
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #81 on: June 01, 2020, 02:18 PM »
In Germany the TKS 80 will set you back around € 1870 for the base config and € 3100 for the full Set. These prices include VAT (21% I think).
In USD that is $ 2081 and $ 3450. Mind you: these are not Festool’s RRP’s, but *real* prices from a solid retailer I often use.


RRP: Recommended Retail Price
If you monitor the prices you can get even a chunk of for the set. I paid way less then the 3100 EUR.  More at the ~ 2700 (or lower [big grin]).

Only think shipping outside EU would be expensive, considering the weight.


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Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 1092
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #82 on: June 01, 2020, 03:58 PM »
@shu Yes mate, they are priced to make the jaw drop.
As much as I love the Erika, I’ve always thought them over priced, by a fair bit too.

They are a fine piece of kit, German design, tech and build, the quality is superb but, even taking that into account, still steep price tags. Over here the 85CE, standard is around £2,800 and then the packages get into more serious money, with a sliding table £3,200 but the sliding table alone is about £540.

Late last year I decided to buy one, when I got to the store, they were still selling the previous model, same money, and hadn’t heard of the latest model until the made a phone call.
This saw will be for my own personal use, and not for the company.
Anyway, it’s on hold right now, as my wife needed many Kitchenaid upgrades, and a good chunk of the money went on that.
I have the itch again now, but still struggling to accept the value for money thing, or lack of it  ;)

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 490
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #83 on: June 01, 2020, 06:11 PM »
I just noticed, there’s a campaign, at least here locally on the Erika 60E.
Just £1000 or $1230... that’s below Presicio CS 50.
One might check dealers if this is a wider (ww) campaign from Mafell.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 1092
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #84 on: June 01, 2020, 07:36 PM »
@shu just wanted to correct my earlier statement regarding dado cutting.
Yes the Erika does cut dado’s but with the single blade method, it won’t take a dado stack though.

In fact, it will cut dado’s on a smaller workpiece, safer than a conventional saw  [thumbs up]

Offline justinmcf

  • Posts: 718
  • Queensland Builder
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #85 on: June 02, 2020, 03:23 AM »
Hi shu.

Thanks for the link.
That's the whole set. Model no. 575829

The basic saw should be a lot cheaper. Model no. 575784

I would still 100% recommend the Festool with the Sawstop technology.

Justin

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1705
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #86 on: June 02, 2020, 03:46 PM »
Get the Festool with Sawstop technology. I believe the model number is Festool TKS 80.

Do you refer to unit only cost? Sydney tools pre order price is over 5K.
You have 230V/50Hz in Australia, buying an European EBS-Set version in Germany would cost <2.4K (excl. VAT, you export it out of the EU) and shipping to Australia would be about 1.662,04 € (haha, that number just pulled from the first 'Europalette to australia' google result, it'll likely be cheaper when not using UPS airfreight [big grin] ). Anyway, that would make it 4.4K € (incl. the 10% VAT you have) on your doorstep, converting this I end up with 7136 AUD.

I'm now interested in the details of your 'over 5K' (what version and exact AUD number) as I just started to think about re-importing one from Australia...
« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 03:51 PM by Gregor »

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1705
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #87 on: June 02, 2020, 03:49 PM »
This saw will be for my own personal use, and not for the company.
Anyway, it’s on hold right now, as my wife needed many Kitchenaid upgrades, and a good chunk of the money went on that.
I have the itch again now, but still struggling to accept the value for money thing, or lack of it  ;)
Ask your wive if she likes you with all your fingers ?

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 794
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #88 on: June 02, 2020, 07:16 PM »
This saw will be for my own personal use, and not for the company.
Anyway, it’s on hold right now, as my wife needed many Kitchenaid upgrades, and a good chunk of the money went on that.
I have the itch again now, but still struggling to accept the value for money thing, or lack of it  ;)
Ask your wive if she likes you with all your fingers ?

Saw Stop Blender?  Saw Stop Stand Mixer,   there are future markets here.

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 490
Re: CS 70 or wait for Festool with sawstop?
« Reply #89 on: June 02, 2020, 08:54 PM »
WoodSpezi is out with a walk trough on the TKS 80 and some additional comparison with CS 50.
Recommended for those interested in the TKS 80.


“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”