Author Topic: MFS for mortise locks?  (Read 4106 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline fatroman

  • Posts: 202
MFS for mortise locks?
« on: November 10, 2011, 03:38 PM »
Wondering how practical a small MFS is for creating deep mortises for door locks, and the occasional full length shallow mortise (say for a door sweep). Is that too tippy a scenario for that? Not so concerned about it being used for hinges. I've got a butt mortise plane that I'm quite happy to use there.

I know about the Plexiglas version, but if the MFS will do double duty for circles/templates AND the odd door, I'm thinking of grabbing one.

Edited to add that I'd use the 1400 with this.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 03:40 PM by fatroman »
El duende está lleno de mierda!

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7385
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: MFS for mortise locks?
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2011, 04:23 PM »
I have both the MFS and the plexiglas template.  I would prefer the plexiglas template for a mortise lock but I have used the MFS in that application just fine.  When you figure out the how to use all the parts, and get used to adjusting the MFS profiles it's a great accessory.     
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline fatroman

  • Posts: 202
Re: MFS for mortise locks?
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2011, 04:55 PM »
Thanks Brice.

I'm only doing this for me, not any kind of production environment. Maybe 10 doors as I renovate room-to-room in the house. Don't really mind if it takes slightly longer than the plexiglas version, as long as it works.

I'd likely clamp the door to the MFT, so judging by the photos, if I pull the brackets on the MFS tight to the door (and add whatever height is needed to the table from the top, to let the MFS rest on that), everything hopefully will be flat and tight.

But if I'm really swimming against the stream, I could be convinced to just go with the plexiglas version instead.
El duende está lleno de mierda!

Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 12241
  • Remington Steele - My Third Boy
Re: MFS for mortise locks?
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2011, 05:20 PM »
Another alternative would be to use two of the edge guides for your router-one on each side of the door.  If you already have one, that would reduce your cost to less than 80 dollars.

Peter

Offline Tom Bellemare

  • Inactive Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5148
  • Festool demo's & personal service in Central Texas
Re: MFS for mortise locks?
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2011, 05:39 PM »
I've never used the MFS for a lock mortise but have for several hinges. I can't see it being at all difficult since it's a slightly different version of doing door hinges. I've even used it for several hinges on the jamb in place.


Tom

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7385
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: MFS for mortise locks?
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2011, 07:39 PM »
Thanks Brice.

I'm only doing this for me, not any kind of production environment. Maybe 10 doors as I renovate room-to-room in the house. Don't really mind if it takes slightly longer than the plexiglas version, as long as it works.

I'd likely clamp the door to the MFT, so judging by the photos, if I pull the brackets on the MFS tight to the door (and add whatever height is needed to the table from the top, to let the MFS rest on that), everything hopefully will be flat and tight.

But if I'm really swimming against the stream, I could be convinced to just go with the plexiglas version instead.

I'd use the stops/support brackets included with the MFS to position the MFS and to clamp it in place.  Just the MFS profiles will provide enough support for shallow mortises so you won't need to get the door and the MFS at the right height.  For a deep, lock mortise it would probable be a god idea to use the MFT top as support.  What I like about having both MFS sets is have two extra stops/brackets so I can put them on both side of the MFS profiles.  This gives me better support, guarantees the profiles won't move and more options for clamping.  You can buy more stops/brackets from Festol as spare parts, might be worth the few extra bucks.

44003-0

44005-1



 
« Last Edit: November 10, 2011, 07:46 PM by Brice Burrell »
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 12241
  • Remington Steele - My Third Boy
Re: MFS for mortise locks?
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2011, 08:06 PM »
Brice,

I don't think that it is said often enough.  Thank you for doing what you do to help!  Just like that!!!!!

Peter - Moderator

Offline fatroman

  • Posts: 202
Re: MFS for mortise locks?
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2011, 08:12 PM »
Brice,

Wow, thanks so much for those SU pics. That makes everything very clear and easy to understand. Looks like that will work splendidly.

Peter - I originally thought about an extra edge guide. Really wasn't sure what the difference between that and the plexi one was. I'd miss the guide markings and the extra dust collection port, but otherwise?

Tom - I see you've got the MFS on Amazon now. Works out great as I've got some bucks on there to spend.

Best,
Steve
El duende está lleno de mierda!

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3569
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: MFS for mortise locks?
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2011, 11:18 AM »
I'd use the stops/support brackets included with the MFS to position the MFS and to clamp it in place.


Brice;
The Sketchup drawing and POV (drawing) explain this so well
Thanks
Tim

Offline benbo66

  • Posts: 2
Re: MFS for mortise locks?
« Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 08:16 AM »
Dear all,

My first question!

I want to use a 1400 to cut as deep as possible mortises in stiles to build a garden gate.

I can see from Brice's MFS Multi-Routing Template System user guide...

(https://service.festoolusa.com/media/pdf/MFS-Users-Guide-Brice-Burrell.pdf)

...that 50mm deep ones are possible but do not know what bit I should buy for this purpose.

My stiles and rails are 130*35mm wide and deep so I'm estimating my mortise lengths and widths ought to be ~60(?)mm and 12mm.

With those dimensions some guidance on the web suggest the depth ought to be ~90mm but

a) that might be my incorrect interpretation of guidance and/or
b)  i don't think the 1400 could cut that deep.

So...how deep should/can i cut and what bit should i buy? (I'm not rich but I wouldn't expect one bit to wipe out my finances so Festool, Whiteside etc would be my probable preferences based on what I've read so far.

I've used Cisco routers but never have a proper router :)

thanks
Ben


Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3974
Re: MFS for mortise locks?
« Reply #10 on: Yesterday at 08:33 AM »
Suggest that you instead use a DF 700 to join the garden gate components.  It's so much easier to set up right than to find the now-discontinued MFS. 
« Last Edit: Today at 08:44 AM by Sparktrician »
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2416
Re: MFS for mortise locks?
« Reply #11 on: Yesterday at 08:54 AM »
I made aluminum angles that attach to my MFS that I can clamp more reliably than the stock.  I made two sets, a shorter and longer version.  I've used mine to rout locks in commercial aluminum doors.  Benbo, you can use your 1400.  Use a standard bit to make your initial cuts, after the depth and shape is correct replace the bit with a longer bit.  Longer Amana bits can be had from Toolstoday.com.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 08:58 AM by rst »

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 7477
Re: MFS for mortise locks?
« Reply #12 on: Yesterday at 11:30 AM »
I'd echo what Sparktrician suggested, it's just so simple to do up to 70 mm deep mortices using a DF 700. If you want a deeper mortice you can always drill it deeper using a brad point drill bit. Using the DF 700 there's no template needed (MFS) and if you live in the States, the MFS is no longer available from Festool, it can however be ordered from Europe for some additional $$$. 

If you decide to go the way of the router, remember that your router bit needs to be inserted into the collet approximately 1" and you also have to add in the thickness of the template you're using. For the MFS that'd be 15 mm. Then add in the mortice depth that you want.

So, depending upon the depth of mortice you need, you'll be talking about at least 2 different router bits and possibly a third.

Here are the Amana offerings in 1/2" diameter. They're available up to 6" long.

https://www.toolstoday.com/router-bits/spiral-solid-carbide-router-bits.html?narrow=%5B%5B%22Diameter%22%2C%221%2F2%22%5D%2C%5B%22Shank%22%2C%221%2F2%22%5D%5D&sort_by=relevency&disable_semantics=1&page_num=3

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 953
Re: MFS for mortise locks?
« Reply #13 on: Yesterday at 01:44 PM »
There are dedicated mortise lock drilling and routing templates and guides. I have the kit and several templates from https://www.templaco.com. If they don't have on the will work for then they will make it. Very professional operation and the guides are high quality.

Offline glenn storey

  • Posts: 26
Re: MFS for mortise locks?
« Reply #14 on: Yesterday at 07:41 PM »
i generally take my door boring jig [it's a kwikset, but there are many others], and chain drill a series of holes where the lock box goes, and clean the mortise out with a chisel. then you can use a router for the rest.

Offline benbo66

  • Posts: 2
Re: MFS for mortise locks?
« Reply #15 on: Today at 02:45 AM »
Yes I've seen the domino but at £1300 over here in the UK it is too much.

Being in the UK however, the MFS is still an option and having seen the following video and having a MFT i do see this as a viable option here - both will be used for other projects.



RFS - in the above video the MFS seems to be supplied with some angles that the guy uses to secure/align the stock to the MFT...are these the kind of angles you referred to in your post?

RFS/Cheese,

You both advise to use a shorter bit before a longer one but why would i not just start right up with a long one that can drill/rout to the depth that I want?

Clearly there will be a reason but being a complete novice to routing i'd never have thought the need.

Cheese, thanks for the link to the Amana bits

I've checked the 1/4 radius box and the 4 and 5 inch boxes (not sure why I'm excluding the 6 and 7  options - just a hunch but would that be correct?) and this presents me with 4 bits.

Which of these might I pick and why?...what do the flute number options mean? why flute up vs not flute up?

I'm supposing that the greater the cutting height, the deeper i can cut in one pass but why would you choose a shorter height vs a greater one?

Also the link you sent directs me to "Spiral Solid Carbide Router Bits" as opposed to non-spiral and non-carbide bits so why not those?


Jim - thanks for the link to Templaco ...looks very interesting so have bookmarked it.

thanks
Ben


Offline AstroKeith

  • Posts: 86
Re: MFS for mortise locks?
« Reply #16 on: Today at 05:19 AM »
I recommend a dedicated jig. I tried to use my MFS but it was too fiddly. I now have the UJK Compact Lock jig and it is excellent. 
Retired engineer/scientist

Offline waho6o9

  • Posts: 1557
    • Garage Door Handyman.com
Re: MFS for mortise locks?
« Reply #17 on: Today at 07:44 AM »

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 7477
Re: MFS for mortise locks?
« Reply #18 on: Today at 01:00 PM »
rst:
1. In the above video the MFS seems to be supplied with some angles that the guy uses to secure/align the stock to the MFT...are these the kind of angles you referred to in your post?

rst/Cheese:
2. You both advise to use a shorter bit before a longer one but why would i not just start right up with a long one that can drill/rout to the depth that I want?

3. I've checked the 1/4 radius box and the 4 and 5 inch boxes (not sure why I'm excluding the 6 and 7  options - just a hunch but would that be correct?) and this presents me with 4 bits.

4. Which of these might I pick and why?...what do the flute number options mean? why flute up vs not flute up?

5. I'm supposing that the greater the cutting height, the deeper i can cut in one pass but why would you choose a shorter height vs a greater one?

6. Also the link you sent directs me to "Spiral Solid Carbide Router Bits" as opposed to non-spiral and non-carbide bits so why not those?


1. I believe @rst modified some aluminum angle stock so that the angle brackets would be longer which would give him additional clamping options.
The steel angles that come with the MFS aren't very long and can hinder the placement of clamps. Here's a photo.

And here's an earlier thread on the issue.
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/routingmilling-aluminum-angle-for-the-mfs-using-an-mfs-a-1010/msg575536/#msg575536



2. If you purchase and install a 6" long router bit, you'll have 3" of the bit extending below the router base. Thus, you have to purchase a 3" long bit and route a pocket in the wood deep enough so that you can then install a longer router bit. This may take 2 router bits or it may take 3 router bits. It all depends upon how deep you want the mortice to be.

3. I'm assuming you're talking about search page for router bits on the Tools Today website.
https://www.toolstoday.com/router-bits/spiral-solid-carbide-router-bits.html?narrow=%5B%5B%22Diameter%22%2C%221%2F2%22%5D%2C%5B%22Shank%22%2C%221%2F2%22%5D%5D&sort_by=relevency&disable_semantics=1&page_num=3

4. Flutes refer to the number of cutting edges. Use a 2-flute because it will core out its own hole. A down cut flute will push chips to the bottom of the cut. You want an up cut so that it pulls the chips up and out of the pocket.

5. There are limits on how deep you you can cut per router pass. The rule of thumb for depth of cut is 1X the diameter of the router bit, so a 1/2" diameter bit could be fed to a depth of 1/2". That applies to any length router bit, from 3" to 6" or any length in between.

However, for hard woods I wouldn't use the 1X factor, I'd go to a 1/2X or even 1/4X depending upon the hardness of the material. If you plunge too deep and attempt to cut, you'll burn the wood which heats up the router bit and dulls it quickly. Once you start to see any blued edges on the router bit it's basically toast.

6. A solid carbide spiral router bit will give you a cleaner cut than a carbide inserted straight bit.  A HSS router bit will give you a shorter service life and should be avoided at all costs. They tend to burn easily, then they lose their sharpness and then they go to the scrapper.  [smile]
« Last Edit: Today at 01:03 PM by Cheese »