Author Topic: Check this Instagram post out  (Read 2162 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Drew Sanderson

  • Posts: 9

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1286
Re: Check this Instagram post out
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2019, 08:36 AM »
I learned from this forum that that is a standard practice at Festool.


Online Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 12054
  • Magnum - My new little boy
Re: Check this Instagram post out
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2019, 08:52 AM »
Totally normal for liability reasons.  On the other side I know that Festool gets tools in boxes just like this and then they are asked to diagnose and fix.  Guess what, the tool has then must be reassembled from the parts (possibly) and then tested to find out what is wrong.  And then torn back down.  There are costs involved and if a repair is made the costs will quite possibly be higher than if the tool was sent in non disassembled.

Time is money and none of us like to work for free.

Peter
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 09:35 AM by Peter Halle »

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 804
Re: Check this Instagram post out
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2019, 09:09 AM »
Also to be fair, if the tool isn’t working, and Festool weren’t asked to repair it, somebody else would have too unless it was going in the rubbish bin. So that would involve stripping it down anyway. If the owner says he doesn’t want it repaired, what use is it?

He should have sent it too me, I can clearly see that a dry joint is the issue!  [big grin]

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1286
Re: Check this Instagram post out
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2019, 09:19 AM »
I should add that my car dealership charges me a diagnostic fee whether or not I go ahead with the recommended fix after the diagnosis.

Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1041
  • aka @the_black_tie_diyer
Re: Check this Instagram post out
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2019, 09:27 AM »
What Peter said.

Totally normal. Would be the same at/with Bosch, (...) (any other brand).

Sucks not knowing this, so I partly understand the frustration coming with this.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1868
Re: Check this Instagram post out
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2019, 01:00 PM »
Also to be fair, if the tool isn’t working,
But it was working!
They could charge diagnostic fee to cover putting it together and be upfront about it. Explain to the customer all options before taking a look at the item. This was clearly not the case. Nothing "normal" about keeping the customer in the dark.
Mechanics don't just hand you pieces of engine if you decide not to go with the repair. In my experience they always explain the options before starting any work.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 01:06 PM by Svar »

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6149
Re: Check this Instagram post out
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2019, 01:07 PM »
I don't think this is normal. This is a disgrace.

I have never seen a tool returned like this to anybody in my life. But then again, I don't live in the USA.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1286
Re: Check this Instagram post out
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2019, 01:18 PM »

They could charge diagnostic fee to cover putting it together and be upfront about it. Explain to the customer all options before taking a look at the item. This was clearly not the case. Nothing "normal" about keeping the customer in the dark.

This (highlighted) is the correct approach as I never knew Festool would return a tool in scattered pieces until I heard it in this forum.

My car dealership lets me know IN ADVANCE how much I would be charged for a diagnosis and I decide if the diagnosis goes ahead or not. Nothing is taken apart before my decision is made, whether it is a $200 charge or a $1,500 fix.

« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 01:21 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 804
Re: Check this Instagram post out
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2019, 01:24 PM »
Also to be fair, if the tool isn’t working,
But it was working!
They could charge diagnostic fee to cover putting it together and be upfront about it. Explain to the customer all options before taking a look at the item. This was clearly not the case. Nothing "normal" about keeping the customer in the dark.
Mechanics don't just hand you pieces of engine if you decide not to go with the repair. In my experience they always explain the options before starting any work.

It wasn’t working properly though, otherwise he wouldn’t have sent it in the first place. Who’s to say it didn’t have a serious fault that could of escalated?
If I had a tool that changed speed every time I pushed on it, I’d either try and fix it, or pay somebody else to fix it, or simply throw it in the bin.

Whether this is good practice or not, is a matter of opinion, I thought most were aware of this. Festool aren’t the only company that operate in this way either, as somebody else mentioned time is money.

Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1041
  • aka @the_black_tie_diyer
Re: Check this Instagram post out
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2019, 01:30 PM »
This has absolutely nothing to do with the country you reside in/ or not.

But here we go:

Let's assume it wasn't a Festool sander but a Bosch sander, and let's say it's all unfolding in Germany. And let's assume for some magical reason I know what happens.

So you send a sander that works, but bogs down upon pressure to Bosch Service Center.

Bosch Service Center will test/ diagnose tool and lastly take apart if it can be repaired. Test and diagnose goes way beyond checking if it runs.

Bosch Service Center will then send quotation.

If you agree with quotation, Bosch Service Center will repair sander, perform necessary checks and ship to user. Every tool shipped is not just repaired, but deemed fit for SAFE & professional/commercial use. <- This being a key point. Tools can be deemed defective and/or unrepairable way before they actually test what you said is wrong with the tool. As, for example, they undergo extensive electrical testing before they are even taken apart.

If you don't agree, you will get parts/ tool with cut cable ... shipped to you.

No tool deemed defective/ unsafe for (professional/commercial) use will be returned in "plug-in and use" condition.

This is totally normal. I know Bosch has it in the fine print, I have never (had to) read the Festool fine print, so I don't know if it's in there. But then again, it's standard procedure.


Kind regards,
Oliver
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 01:39 PM by six-point socket II »
Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline Distinctive Interiors

  • Posts: 362
  • Modern Kitchen Specialist
    • distinterior.com
Re: Check this Instagram post out
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2019, 01:48 PM »
I don't think this is normal. This is a disgrace.

I have never seen a tool returned like this to anybody in my life. But then again, I don't live in the USA.

I've only had to send 1 of my Festool power tools in for repair and it was still under warranty. I was very happy with the service I received.

Having said that, I would be interested to hear what @Phil Beckley has to say on this subject regarding Festools position if a tool is returned to Festool UK for diagnosis of a fault and the customer decides it is not worth it to pay to have it repaired by Festool,.....Is the dismantled tool returned to its owner in the same state as shown in the original post above...?

Is it company policy worldwide or is the process different from country to country...?
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 01:52 PM by Distinctive Interiors »

Offline Frank-Jan

  • Posts: 1048
  • Dutch Canadian living in Belgium
Re: Check this Instagram post out
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2019, 01:56 PM »
I don't think this is normal. This is a disgrace.

I have never seen a tool returned like this to anybody in my life. But then again, I don't live in the USA.

I had a dustextractor returned to me like that once by Makita in the Netherlands.

I wasn't too happy when I received it, because I didn't want to send in for repair in the first place (It was still working, but it was pretty beaten up, so I decided to order some parts (piece of body housing with the handle, filters and a filtercloth), the manager of the toolstore suggested to send it to the Makita service department. I reluctantly agreed, after examination they said the repaircost was too high, and it would be better just to get a new one;
I didn't want a new one, because I didn't like the machine to begin with, but I asked to have it returned to me. I got it back disassembled to the last tiny screw, and I did receive the new filters.

(The manager of the toolstore decided to give the parts for free, so I would have a complete vac if I decided to assemble it myself, which I never did)

Previous experiences with the Makita service department were better (a few repairs,of which most under warranty, and another case where the repaircost would be too high, but then they offered me a discount on the replacement tool, (which I would have bought anyway, a small demolition hammer for tiles and masonry grout)

I have sent plenty of other tools in for repair by other brands over the years (Festool, Bosch, fein, Dewalt, arbortech,carat,..) but I never decided to go for the "return unrepaired" option, so I don't know how they handle such cases.

While I was typing this, I got the warning with the "other replies have posted to this thread", and Oliver's post makes sence to me.

Offline Phil Beckley

  • Posts: 1518
Re: Check this Instagram post out
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2019, 02:03 PM »
Hi
To find the fault it has to be opened up and quoted for - if the customer decides not to proceed then it is sent back dismantled. Hands are tied on this due to legislation as we cannot send a machine back in a dangerous state
Rg
Phil

Offline six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1041
  • aka @the_black_tie_diyer
Re: Check this Instagram post out
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2019, 02:09 PM »
Thank you Phil!

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 804
Re: Check this Instagram post out
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2019, 02:18 PM »
Hi
To find the fault it has to be opened up and quoted for - if the customer decides not to proceed then it is sent back dismantled. Hands are tied on this due to legislation as we cannot send a machine back in a dangerous state
Rg
Phil

Makes sense to me Phil, imagine the consequences of somebody having a faulty tool returned to them, and that tool causes an accident or personal injury?  [blink]

Offline Distinctive Interiors

  • Posts: 362
  • Modern Kitchen Specialist
    • distinterior.com
Re: Check this Instagram post out
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2019, 02:19 PM »
Thanks for the clarification Phil! 

Offline GarryMartin

  • Posts: 1816
Re: Check this Instagram post out
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2019, 03:00 PM »
To be clear, it's stated on the form you fill in to send a tool in for UK repair. I've never understood why people complain on social media afterwards when they've essentially agreed to it beforehand. Of course, that assumes they actually read the form...  [poke]

Offline Doug S

  • Posts: 444
Re: Check this Instagram post out
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2019, 03:05 PM »
I learned this lesson with a Fein cordless drill a few years ago.

I felt the batteries were not holding charge for quite as long as they used to, the shop where I bought it from offered to send them in to Fein to be checked out, they said you might as well send drill as well.

I was told something inside was a bit worn which was putting more strain on the batteries so they were not lasting as long. Repair was too much so I said no presuming I would get drill back working as it was when it was sent it in but no just a box full of bits, was not happy at the time.

 


Offline harry_

  • Posts: 1295
Re: Check this Instagram post out
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2019, 07:13 PM »
As mentioned upthread, liability can be a be and likely is a factor.

Having done a tour of duty at an auto repair shop, I can remember a time when a car was brought in with a braking issue. Upon removal of the wheels it was discovered that the pads had long since worn into the rotors. One side of a rotor had all the cooling fins exposed. Meaning there was no disk plate on one side. When the repair was quoted to the customer they declined the repair. Management informed the customer that there was no way that car was leaving unless it was repaired or by tow truck.

The furious customer called the police on us. The cop took one look at the rotor, as us to remove the license plates and give them to him. He then informed the customer (again) that the only way that car was leaving was repaired or by tow truck.

This is obviously extreme in several areas, but I know I would not want that liability hanging over my head.


I am sure in this tread's case it was more about expense. Could it have been said to the customer that cost to reassemble is $xyz? Sure. That same customer would have in all likelihood declined. Why spend the money to reassemble a 'junk' tool. And if one is to spring for the reassembly why not spring for the parts as well?
Disclaimer: This post is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Void where prohibited. Some assembly required. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. This is not an offer to sell securities. May be too intense for some viewers. No user-serviceable parts inside. Subject to change without notice. One size fits all (very poorly).

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6523
Re: Check this Instagram post out
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2019, 09:49 PM »
Upon removal of the wheels it was discovered that the pads had long since worn into the rotors. One side of a rotor had all the cooling fins exposed. Meaning there was no disk plate on one side.

Now that’s severe...never seen that one in my life. I wonder how he even got the car to the garage. These brakes had to be howling for weeks. Some people...

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 595
Re: Check this Instagram post out
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2019, 09:58 PM »
I say it's straightforward and makes sense. It's all about liability.

If you go ahead with a fix, they will make sure it's in proper working order before sending it back.  How do you put something back into the same broken state it came in as?  You can't you can either leave the tool in "service position", or fully fix it.   If they try to put it back together they A) might not be able to, broken things are like that.  B) might not get it back to the same state it was (runs differently than it did before.  C) could be returning something in an un-safe state which then opens them up to all sorts of liability.

I don't see a big deal with this either.  If the tool is broke and out of warranty, I'm not likely to send it in in the first place, I would try to repair it myself (heck even under warranty I would prefer self repair), but ignoring what I would do, it's out of warranty and you send it in. At this point the tool is all ready as a cross roads. If the quote for repair it too high, the tool has basically meet it's end right there. So the state it comes back in doesn't matter. The option beyond that is to either attempt self repair, or put it in the boneyard as a parts tool for other tools.  Outside of that it's time to begin scrapping it. For me the process is to fully dismantle the item, put what can be recycled in recycling bin, now separated,  keep parts that look like they could have future use, and then toss what can't be re-used/recycled.

Coming back like this just makes my disposal task easier. Taking apart tools/appliances/etc to dispose of them can be a pain, this just gets some steps done.

Far as comparison to cars.  Mechanics don't tear into the car without confirmation you are going for it. Sure they can plug in scans, pop hood, take wheel off and minor things to check out. But they won't do real tear down work without confirmation of repair. Some random mechanic here or there might, but that's not how it works.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1286
Re: Check this Instagram post out
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2019, 10:16 PM »
The moral of all this is that if something is out of warranty, and it is not working as well as it should be, or not as optimal as when it was new, don't send it in just for "inspection" or for an opinion. Be prepared to have whatever problem identified fixed.

Or, if you don't plan to go through a fix, believing that the repair cost could be high, don't send your tool in either. Just buy a replacement, same brand or a different one.

I have never had any experience with Festool's service department, but this thread is educational, allowing me one day to decide which path to take if a tool is not working properly: repair or buy a replacement.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6101
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Check this Instagram post out
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2019, 10:26 PM »
Upon removal of the wheels it was discovered that the pads had long since worn into the rotors. One side of a rotor had all the cooling fins exposed. Meaning there was no disk plate on one side.

Now that’s severe...never seen that one in my life. I wonder how he even got the car to the garage. These brakes had to be howling for weeks. Some people...

When I taught at a community collage in the automotive field we had a car come in with a rattle compliant left front. A group of students assigned to the car removed the wheel, the worn pads had cut the rotor from the rotor hub, that was the rattle. How it did not blow the caliper piston out of the caliper I have no clue.

Any tools out of warranty I repair myself, call Festool USA, order the parts, make the repairs. Just replaced the swith and motor on one of my CXS's, changed the Plug It socket on the RO 125, new cord also. The CXS was purchased the first week they were released here, the RO 125, at least 15 years old.

Tom
« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 10:29 PM by tjbnwi »

Offline fshanno

  • Posts: 983
Re: Check this Instagram post out
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2019, 11:05 PM »
Haven't read all the replies so somebody may have preempted me. 

Festool did the guy a favor.  Obviously they had to take it this far to find the problem.  So the thing is in exactly the right condition to get started with the repair.  All you need are the parts. 

If you aren't going to fix it then maybe scavenge what you can and trash the rest.  No harm no foul.

If it had been me I would have instructed Festool NOT to reassemble.
The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.