Author Topic: Can I cut thicker material with Kapex 120 in 2 steps?  (Read 2168 times)

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Offline jardako

  • Posts: 8
Can I cut thicker material with Kapex 120 in 2 steps?
« on: July 10, 2020, 08:04 AM »
Hello, I'm considering buying Kapex 120. But it has a serious limitation, only 88mm cut depth (or 120mm, but just for thin pieces).
Is it possible to cut something thicker, e.g. 120 x 120 in two steps? E.g. cut it from one side, then reverse it and cut from the other side?


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Online kevinculle

  • Posts: 486
Re: Can I cut thicker material with Kapex 120 in 2 steps?
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2020, 08:13 AM »
No, the cut thickness limitation on an SCMS is that the sliding head can't pass over the workpiece because of interference with the top of the workpiece, so those are hard limts.

Offline jardako

  • Posts: 8
Re: Can I cut thicker material with Kapex 120 in 2 steps?
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2020, 08:29 AM »
Thank you for the answer. Really there is no way to cut something thicker? That's sad :-(

Online kevinculle

  • Posts: 486
Re: Can I cut thicker material with Kapex 120 in 2 steps?
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2020, 11:46 AM »
The SCMS is a highly specialized tool developed primarily for length cutoffs of construction stock and moldings with precise control of both the cut and bevel angles.  Its design inherently limits material thickness capacity as both the sliding housing and the blade axis must clear the top of the material being cut.  For cutting thicker stock with similar capabilities a large capacity radial arm saw with a 14" to 16" blade would be one option.

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 4267
Re: Can I cut thicker material with Kapex 120 in 2 steps?
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2020, 11:51 AM »
Super Sawsquatch or beam saw would do the trick.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T 18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TID 18 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • Planex Easy • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • AGC 18-115 • CT 36AC w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • CT-VA 20 • MFT/3 • STM 1800

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3806
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Can I cut thicker material with Kapex 120 in 2 steps?
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2020, 01:40 PM »
Would a jigsaw work? I have a great handsaw that I use for really thick cuts. Good aerobic exercise.
Birdhunter

Offline jardako

  • Posts: 8
Re: Can I cut thicker material with Kapex 120 in 2 steps?
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2020, 02:12 AM »
Hi guys, please can someone try it? I know there are other types of saw.

But I'd like to have this one and my business case is a pergola. Looking at the videos on youtube, I really do not understand why it would not be possible to put let's say 120x120 timber to the middle of the base and just cut it from the top, then reverse it and finish the cut. The saw starts cutting earlier than it reaches the initial depth for 88mm and there is nothing in the way.

Offline MikeGE

  • Posts: 340
Re: Can I cut thicker material with Kapex 120 in 2 steps?
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2020, 03:53 AM »
Why don't you take a sample of what you want to cut to your nearest Festool showroom and give it a try for yourself?

Offline jardako

  • Posts: 8
Re: Can I cut thicker material with Kapex 120 in 2 steps?
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2020, 04:44 AM »
Why don't you take a sample of what you want to cut to your nearest Festool showroom and give it a try for yourself?

Yes, I can do it (they are a bit faraway) or I can ask them. Just thought I would get an answer here ...

Offline Frank-Jan

  • Posts: 1258
  • Dutch Canadian living in Belgium
Re: Can I cut thicker material with Kapex 120 in 2 steps?
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2020, 06:41 AM »
I remember doing it years ago, I don't remember the size (if it was 120x120 or 145x145) I do remember we had to slide it out from underneath the sawhead to flip it. (I just checked if I had any cutoffs lying around to test it for you, but I can't find any)

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3806
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Can I cut thicker material with Kapex 120 in 2 steps?
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2020, 07:01 AM »
If you actually can do a flip over cut using the Kapex, please be sure to not have any flex in the lumber that could pinch the saw blade. Take the cut slowly and feel/hear the saw starting to bog down. That usually precedes a kick back.

Let the saw completely come to a full stop before lifting or retracting the saw's head. Don't put any lateral pressure on the saw's handle while cutting as that will cause kick back.

Good Luck!
Birdhunter

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 4267
Re: Can I cut thicker material with Kapex 120 in 2 steps?
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2020, 09:01 AM »
This would be the main concern for me.

please be sure to not have any flex in the lumber that could pinch the saw blade. Take the cut slowly and feel/hear the saw starting to bog down. That usually precedes a kick back.


Sure, the cut you describe is theoretically possible, though you may have to remove the dust shroud first.  But if the timber you're working with is not already perfectly straight, it will not result in a square end, and more critically (particularly if you're cutting more than just a few inches off the end) it will start to bind as you make the cut and possibly kick back something awful.

If you still want to try, make sure to lay down the timber so that any bowing is positioned relative to the fence (along the y axis), rather than relative to the saw bed (along the z axis).  Do an initial two-step cut a mm or two proud of the final length, and then do a finishing cut to remove the final mm so that you can cancel out the deflection that was created by the bowing. 

And engaging the hold down clamp would also be highly recommended.
Kapex KS 120 w/UG Cart and Extensions • CXS Set • T 18+3 w/Centrotec Installer's Set • PDC 18/4 • TID 18 • TS 75 • TSC 55 • HKC 55 w/250, 420 and 670 FSK rails • Carvex 420 w/Accessory Kit • Domino 500 Set • Domino 700 XL • OF 2200 w/Base Accessory Kit • OF 1400 • OF 1010 • MFK 700 EQ Set • LR 32 • MFS 400 w/2000, 1000, and 700 extensions • Rotex 90 • Rotex 150 • LS 130 • ETS-EC 150/5 • ETS-EC 150/3 • Pro 5 LTD • RTS 400 • RAS 115.04 • RS 2 • Planex Easy • HL 850 • Vecturo OS 400 • AGC 18-115 • CT 36AC w/BT module • CT Sys w/Long-Life Bag • CT-VA 20 • MFT/3 • STM 1800

Offline jardako

  • Posts: 8
Re: Can I cut thicker material with Kapex 120 in 2 steps?
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2020, 01:42 AM »
Thank you all. So now I will believe that this cut is possible and it is not a show stopper for buying Kapex 120 anymore.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3806
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Can I cut thicker material with Kapex 120 in 2 steps?
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2020, 05:54 AM »
I am not a lawyer, but if you alter the Kapex (remove the blade cover) and get injured or burn up the motor, you may not have recourse through Festool.
Birdhunter

Online kevinculle

  • Posts: 486
Re: Can I cut thicker material with Kapex 120 in 2 steps?
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2020, 08:17 AM »
Look, it is possible to force a tool to do things it was not designed to do.  The results are predictable, poor quality cuts, possible damage to the tool and safety risks to the operator.  If your conclusion from these comments is that you should now buy a Kapex to do this work you haven't been paying attention.  If your primary focus is cutting oversized workpieces you would be much better off with a saw like the 12" Makita LS1219L at 40% of the price of a new Kapex.

https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/LS1219L

It sure as heck isn't easily portable like the Kapex but for working on thicker workpieces it's a far better option than the one you are considering.

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 2496
Re: Can I cut thicker material with Kapex 120 in 2 steps?
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2020, 01:17 PM »
I fail to see how cutting 120x120 in two passes by flipping is any more dangerous than cutting a single 120x60. Exact same precautions would apply to prevent pinching, kickback etc. And why would you need to remove blade guard? It's spring loaded and opens all the way to the arbor. Kapex cuts 120mm tall molding, so the shroud should clear it. If needed, rubber dust shroud can be rolled back without removal, just like Festool shows in a training video.
Important to set the depth stop to 60 mm like you do trenching or lap joint. Then cut, flip, cut. No excessive stress on the tool that I can see.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 01:42 PM by Svar »

Offline jardako

  • Posts: 8
Re: Can I cut thicker material with Kapex 120 in 2 steps?
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2020, 05:45 AM »
I'll try to do such cut somewhere and when I manage it, I'll post an update here.

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3806
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: Can I cut thicker material with Kapex 120 in 2 steps?
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2020, 06:48 AM »
If I decided to do this cut using my Kapex, I’d do the first side going 1/4th through. Then,  widen the kerf by making a second cut going 1/4th through. I’d then cut the 1/2 thickness making 2 passes. I’d flip the board and repeat the 2 cut technique. Of course the very last cut goes all the way through.

The idea is to reduce the chance the blade will bind and kick back by creating a wide kerf.

 I guess one could do the cut in thirds, but by being aware of resistance while cutting one can back off before a kick back.

I use a lot of highly figured hardwoods. If I’m cutting through a board thicker than 3/4”, I’ll make the cut in two passes. I’ve seen wood move a lot while making a cut due to internal stresses changing. It doesn’t take much movement to bind a blade.
Birdhunter

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 1111
Re: Can I cut thicker material with Kapex 120 in 2 steps?
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2020, 01:37 PM »
You should be able to do this but, mitres might be a different story.
If you plan on cutting a lot of this sort of timber, why not go with a 12” saw, radial arm even?

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 1290
Re: Can I cut thicker material with Kapex 120 in 2 steps?
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2020, 07:00 PM »
You should be able to cut a 6"x6" post, without modifying anything. Accuracy will be lost at some point tho.
Mario