Woodpeckers' One-Time-Tool-produce-it-and-forget-it, in my opinion, creates a culture within that operation of minimum field testing and development. Why fret the small stuff if you are only planning on one production run.

That thinking is probably why they quick-developed their system. 

TSO, on the other hand, not only tests but makes ongoing improvements in its system. 

My understanding is that the current squaring arm from Festool is the TSO design produced under license. 

I know my position is unpopular among fans of Woodpeckers products.  But I suspect that the popularity of their product relates more to the quality feel of the pieces than the functionality.  Their products do feel like fine instruments.

Woodpeckers' One-Time-Tool-produce-it-and-forget-it, in my opinion, creates a culture within that operation of minimum field testing and development. Why fret the small stuff if you are only planning on one production run.

I know my position is unpopular among fans of Woodpeckers products.  But I suspect that the popularity of their product relates more to the quality feel of the pieces than the functionality.  Their products do feel like fine instruments.

At the risk of being accused of being a fanboy (which I am definitely not), there are many One-Time-Tools that have received updates over the years based on feedback from prior iterations, and others that have entered regular production due to their popularity.  I'm sure their tools are tested in house by actual woodworkers, rather than just having bean counters approve designs and plans, but there's no substitute for real-world testing.  And at the apparently production levels they have, they'd have to make a full OTT run just to get the volume they would need.

I don't follow social media enough to know if they partner with "influencers" at all, but even when I see "influencers" testing a tool, I'm skeptical of how much honest feedback they actually provide to their partners (see also: Festool didn't seem to change much of anything on the TID after handing them out to a bunch of people to test and review).  And quite honestly, does Woodpecker's even need the exposure?  3-4 month lead times slipping to 8-12 months because of over-exposure (not to mention even quicker knock-offs from overseas).

Of course, there are still others that are just plain duds, like with any tool lineup.

I have not and will most likely never own any woodpeckers stuff.  I have been tempted in the past but sometimes I found I already missed the window.  Thinking back, I cant remember a single one of the items that tempted me I guess its better off I didnt by it... I do own a TSO MTR square I dont use much for anything other than checking square but its large and very accurate so I have 100% confidence in it and never need to worry if my square is square and that's actually a more common thing than most people think.

I never even looked at WP rail square but the fact that it needs 2 different tools to attach would have killed it from the get go.  I did own the GRS for a period of time but ended up selling it as it didnt fit my needs at the time but it was very well made and I liked the easy on/off.

It's not the rail square that takes 2 tools, it's the parallel guides. The rail square just clips on like many others, totally tool-less. BTW, it is fantastic if you ever need to do anything other than square.
The detents are very deep/sharp and every specific angle I have cut with it has been dead-on.
I'm not a WP fan boy either, particularly dis-liking the whole concept of OTT.
I'm thinking that my next tool purchase is going to be a TSO square.
As stated above, I'm tired of constantly checking and not trusting the framing square that I use the most.

Quote from: afish on January 20, 2022, 08:44 AM

I have not and will most likely never own any woodpeckers stuff.  I have been tempted in the past but sometimes I found I already missed the window.  Thinking back, I cant remember a single one of the items that tempted me I guess its better off I didnt by it... I do own a TSO MTR square I dont use much for anything other than checking square but its large and very accurate so I have 100% confidence in it and never need to worry if my square is square and that's actually a more common thing than most people think.

I never even looked at WP rail square but the fact that it needs 2 different tools to attach would have killed it from the get go.  I did own the GRS for a period of time but ended up selling it as it didnt fit my needs at the time but it was very well made and I liked the easy on/off.

It's not the rail square that takes 2 tools, it's the parallel guides. The rail square just clips on like many others, totally tool-less. BTW, it is fantastic if you ever need to do anything other than square.
The detents are very deep/sharp and every specific angle I have cut with it has been dead-on.
I'm not a WP fan boy either, particularly dis-liking the whole concept of OTT.
I'm thinking that my next tool purchase is going to be a TSO square.
As stated above, I'm tired of constantly checking and not trusting the framing square that I use the most.

Oh, I thought he was saying you need 2 tools to attach the square to the track saw track.  I was like thats just dumb, makes more sense now.  I also agree the OTT thing turns me off from WP overall.  As far as framing squares go I dont think any are square  at least not many.  I wanted a nice large square that was precise and was a reference for everything.  If you have a parf guide you can also make a nice sized square but I havent regretted spending 200 bucks on the TSO square...

Hello FOG friends,

thank you for your comments about TSO as well as other companies. I will share copies of this FOG thread with the TSO Team to let all of them know that their efforts are noticed and rewarded with orders and recommendations.

Your FOG posts will really be appreciated as recognition and encouragement to keep up the effort. The fact is we could not do it without your continuing support – really.

About Woodpeckers and Seneca: they both offer you choices from which we all benefit.
Whether you buy from the others or not, both companies help to make TSO stay better. In their own way, each of them helps to keep us on our toes and you benefit along with us.

Good for all of us!
Hans and the TSO Team

@squall_line : – exactly.

We look at existing solutions to find their shortcomings and develop an improvement based on what customers are reporting. Once we have a new product in production, we never let up looking for ways to live up to our  passion for “continuous improvement” in our system-designed product line.

All this feedback is immensely helpful whether it’s compliments or criticism!
Hans