Festool Owners Group

FESTOOL DISCUSSIONS => Festool Tools & Accessories => Topic started by: flagre on February 21, 2021, 01:38 PM

Title: Advice on switch from KS60 to CS50
Post by: flagre on February 21, 2021, 01:38 PM
I need to work out of a temporary shop that need to be cleaned and ready for others to use when I am done. It is thus critical that I can pack stuff up and put it into storage and that the transition time is as low as possible. I never need to lift stuff, so not that type of mobile, on wheels and compact is good enough.

So far I have two MFTCs, one in the traditional setup and one with a KS60 mounted on top. I thought that was what I needed, but I constantly struggle with two things: thin rips, especially when I want to sneak up to something and getting proper miters (there is always a bit of flex in a miter saw). Already fairly kitted so the cutting station of the MFTC works nicely together with parallel guides.  I have never considered the CS50, but after I realized it has a slider functionality it looks like it could replace my KS60 altogether with additional benefits of enabling thin rips etc. I believe I just will modify the MFTC that houses the KS60 and that should be good to go. Also, the KS60 on top of the MFTC was always a bit of a compromise. Should also be possible to house some accessories on that setup.

In that context I am a bit torn with respect to accessories. If I just look at the needs I have and what I think I need I think that I really do not need more than the base floor unit, maybe also the outfeed extension, in addition to a extendable side extension (like you have on the miter saws) with a flip stop (which one is this by the way? the one for the KS120?). What do you think about going this route and would it be stupid not going for more of the accessories? There is the set, but maybe there is not so much to be saved and a fair bit of money. Since I already have the MFTC setup and plan on matching the heights I am not sure that I even need the length/outfeed extension. Also less clutter on the MFTC would be great. Maybe the extra fence is nice with less flex, but I have heard the standard one is good enough. What do you think? Would the CS50 be a good replacement for the KS60?

Thanks a lot for comments or suggestions.
Title: Re: Advice on switch from KS60 to CS50
Post by: Alex on February 21, 2021, 02:44 PM
I think the CS50 would be a good step up from the KS60. It gives you a lot more options.

As for accessories, just buy them later when you decide you need them. But with a small table like the 50, I'd think you'd need the table widener and the outfeed table. Unless your MFTC's can provide that functionality. And if you need extensions to use it as a miter saw, you could start with making those yourself out of wood, a cheap way to start. Until you've found how you prefer to work with the 50.
Title: Re: Advice on switch from KS60 to CS50
Post by: flagre on February 22, 2021, 03:23 AM
Thanks a lot for the feedback. Sounds like an obvious move for me at this point.

Do you know how wide of a rip I can do without the side extension table? Only need 205 mm or something as I do the rest on the guide rail.
Title: Re: Advice on switch from KS60 to CS50
Post by: mino on February 22, 2021, 05:10 AM
For a mobile use case, I would consider getting the basic CS50 without legs and put it on a wheeled cabinet made for it. You can then store any extensions in it or even make them part of the wheeled cabinet for a complete unit.

One can always add the legs later on, should the use case change.

I never liked the "foldable legs table" concept for workshop use. IMO it is really geared for on-site temporary workstation setups, not "moving around a workshop" type mobility.
Title: Re: Advice on switch from KS60 to CS50
Post by: FestitaMakool on February 22, 2021, 05:38 AM
What Alex and Mino says.
In my case the CS 50 certainly has replaced a miter saw for many cuts that I’d normally do on the miter saw. (I have the set version, so I tend to use the sliding table a lot too)
It will rip 215mm or just about so without extension table, using the supplied protractor.

For cross cutting at all angles using the supplied protractor and pull saw function. (replaces the supplied fence, as the t-track on the KA-KS fence slides on the protractor)

From Festool.co.uk, scroll down and download the user manual - PDF
https://www.festool.co.uk/accessory/488063---cs-70-ka#Overview
Title: Re: Advice on switch from KS60 to CS50
Post by: flagre on February 22, 2021, 06:16 AM
Okey, thanks a lot for comments and suggestions. 215 mm sounds ideal and exactly what I need. For my use the miter then has no real use and I am confident that the CS 50 will be better suited. And in addition, it can do rips, dust collection is better etc. Miters should be _much_ more accurate. Cost is also more or less the same. It is also more suited for sitting on a wheeled base, i.e. a modified MFTC so a no brainer for my use it seems.

Then with respect to the side extensions, if I like to work on the left side of the blade it would make sense to get the right UG extension for the KS 120, right? I think I will use one of my existing MFTC extension tables as an outfeed table due to the simplicity of fine adjustments of height, so even though I could use the base for storing accessories, I do not think I need it.

What I considered in addition was to get the CMS-OF and the CMS/CS50 extension table, but with the CMS-OF being very difficult to get I will continue to use the router function in the MFTC extensions that I built. Anyone know if it is still possible to get hold of one of those units? And if so, where?
Title: Re: Advice on switch from KS60 to CS50
Post by: Alex on February 22, 2021, 07:34 AM
Miters should be _much_ more accurate.

I have the CS70 and my miters are always spot on.

What I considered in addition was to get the CMS-OF and the CMS/CS50 extension table, but with the CMS-OF being very difficult to get I will continue to use the router function in the MFTC extensions that I built. Anyone know if it is still possible to get hold of one of those units? And if so, where?

You can find them in the used market only. I see them go by regularly on our dutch site www.marktplaats.nl


Title: Re: Advice on switch from KS60 to CS50
Post by: flagre on February 22, 2021, 11:20 AM
Great. Thanks. Miters that are spot on sounds like an improvements. Spent way too much time trying to calibrate something that is really not the right tool for the task. Lesson learned.

Should I go with the CS 70 KA or the UG extension for the KS 120 for repeatable rip cuts? Any pros/cons of either? The CS 70 KA seems even more portable and can be used on both sides. At least with two flip stops. Seems the UG can only be used on one side.
Title: Re: Advice on switch from KS60 to CS50
Post by: Alex on February 22, 2021, 11:33 AM
I thought a saw like the KS60 was the right tool for the job. I don't have much experience with these saws, but a carpenter friend of mine has it, and his miters are always spot on too.

I would like to get the CS 70 KA myself one day, seems like the best option to add to the CS table as it is made for it. I am not sure how the UG connects to it.
Title: Re: Advice on switch from KS60 to CS50
Post by: FestitaMakool on February 22, 2021, 12:18 PM
A KS 60 will be very accurate for mitres or regular straight cuts. It is as you say a whole lot of saw to drag around on top of other tools. That said, the KS 60 has larger cut capacity than the CS 50 saw. For anything more complex trim work as crown mouldings the mitre saw is a necessity. Lately I used the pull saw for a compound miter on some temporary window trim outside. It was relieving how smooth and fast I could set up the table saw to do just that. Cause when I did it, the mitre saw was put away and would need to be set up, so this was much quicker.

Beware that the UG wings do not have a t-track to connect it to the protractor! It can be connected, but will only do 90°. Also, the tape measure are pre-calibrated to either KS 60 or KS 120. 
The KA-KS (CS 70 KA) has the advantage of being able to connect to the protractor as a long fence, it has a built in measuring tape that you can calibrate to the saw blade. If I remember correctly it CAN be reversed for the opposite side (Ie: L to R)
That would be something you wouldn’t do all the time though, as you’ll need to move stop screws and reverse the whole set up.
I’ve just bought a KA-KS pre-owned to be set up as a narrow table for use on my CS 50, my router table and MFT/3. I’ll chop the legs slightly off of it to give room and attach a MDF or PLY of about 200mm of width under the fence to act as a narrow table. I’ll use a AB-KS 120 to attach it to the various applications.
Title: Re: Advice on switch from KS60 to CS50
Post by: flagre on February 22, 2021, 12:29 PM
Thanks for comments. Yes, I also thought so, but the little flex you have, unless you really baby the cut seems to lead to not that accurate miters on stock a little wider. Also, the stock can more easy move, unless you clamp. All this is obviously "user error", but I believe this would not be that big of a deal on the CS 50. It seems easier/more efficient to clamp parts (or make rigs for that purpose for the smaller stuff).

Okey, then CS 70 KA it is.

Again, thanks a lot to everyone for the comments. Placing an order now.