Author Topic: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers  (Read 49741 times)

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Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2012, 02:01 AM »
Good job Peter! Very impressive on that piece if Maple.

Is there any chance of a response from the Dutch guys or have they been  [ban] ned?

I think that they should be given another 24 hours to tell the full story about their tests.

Peter

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Offline Scott Burt

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2012, 06:18 AM »
Peter

I had seen what looked to be some unqualified testers make a silly mess of a similar test on the internet recently.

Thank you for the clear and obvious account of this tool's performance on this type of task. As always, well done.

chope chope


Thanks Scott

I am not allowed to comment as someone keeps reporting me to Shane and Peter for infringing their human rights.

Peter

Odd. I've never found you to be particularly offensive. You are a class act, thanks for your contributions.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 07:11 AM by Scott B. »

Offline jmbfestool

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2012, 06:43 AM »
Peter

I had seen what looked to be some unqualified testers make a silly mess of a similar test on the internet recently.

Thank you for the clear and obvious account of this tool's performance on this type of task. As always, well done.

chope chope


Thanks Scott

I am not allowed to comment as someone keeps reporting me to Shane and Peter for infringing their human rights.

Peter


lol  I'm always getting a telling off!  I have been very good for AGES!  but last night I had about 4 of my posts edited by moderators and a telling off  [embarassed]
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Offline Peter Halle

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2012, 07:42 AM »
I know that many members - including myself - are still hyped up from the thread about the tests on various jigsaws that has now been locked.  One of the points that was repeatedly made was a wish for objectivity.  

Emotions ran high in that thread and I would venture a guess that many of the views of that thread were to see if a train wreck was going to happen.

All of you participating members have made this a community that is friendly and civil.  It is well known that we have a bunch of helpful members; we read here often that many members participate here because of our helpfulness and friendly demeanor.  Let's keep it that way.  Let's talk about tools.

So, how about we cease with the comments about the members here who were participants in that review and let this thread remain objective and as separate as it can be.  I know that might be difficult to do, but let Peter P. do his tests and post his results. Ask questions and make comments about what you see but don't let that other thread and the feelings developed there about personalities pollute this one.

Thank you.

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Offline waynelang2001

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2012, 08:03 AM »
I for one take every tool review with a pinch of salt. Im very happy with my trion at the moment and if it packs up i will look at the 420. If i like it then good for me, if i dont like it then good for me also because I have the 30 days to return it. If you enjoy a tool you purchase then just have fun with it and dont worry what other people might think. And remember, a poor workman always blames his tools.... [cool]
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Offline Rembo72

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #35 on: October 10, 2012, 02:28 PM »
Quote
I think that they should be given another 24 hours to tell the full story about their tests.

Peter

Hi so far I did not respond not to ge tthe emotion back into this thread , I asked Peter privately what he did but choose not to post here but if being asked....

I think the full story can be read in the thread that was locked, nothing more to say about that, I think in that thread we have mentioned that it is definitely possible to cut thick lumps of timberwith the Carvex but that it can also go wrong.

What was the difference between Peters test and ours:

* We used the metal guide , maybe blade drift combined with this caused an issue with the Carvex, Carvex manual states use on rails for 20mm only, using the metal guide is comparable to a rail so it could be accepted as being used against instruction form the manufacturer. What's strange here is that the 3 other saws with guides did not show these issues.

* Peter appears to have gotten his hands on the new Carvex blades, we where not able to get these and tested with the Trion blades, this may make a difference, again why only with the Carvex and not with the other 3 saws?

* Peter hardly pushed the saw and let the saw do the job, in our test a gentle amount of pressure was applied to cut faster, is this good practise? debatable probably not, however Carvex is the one that showed the issues and it claims through the higher speed to cut faster.

Thats about it for the differences.

If we take the test from Art at Work into consideration that showed both the same sparks and worn out blades as we saw them that the Carvex is particularly critical to how it's being treated. If handled with greatest care it can do the job but what percentage of people will go beyond that limit in daily (professional) life?

I'm a bit dissapointed in the responses in the three treads that our test if bashed all over , Art of Work his test is better believed while generaly it's the same test with similar results and when Peter posts to succesfully cut a thick piece of lumber everybody seems to forget the rest and only believe he did the right thing, I know some of the posts me and my fellow testers made where at or sometimes over the line, should not have happened but I find it a pitty that the discussion was around that and to disbelieve what we had done rather than to discuss on the actual problem. Sparks in a workshop with dust can easily set your workshop on fire. Should that be possible with a saw positioned at this (basically at any) level in the tool market?

Offline Nigel

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #36 on: October 10, 2012, 02:43 PM »
Rembo,

You seem to focus on the sparks thing.

 I know that if I push my PS 300 in too tight a curve or tighten the guides too tight I will end up with sparks. That however is entirely user error and not the fault of the machine.

Offline Festool USA

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2012, 02:46 PM »
Remco/Rian/Jan, this debate will not be allowed to spill over into this thread. You were giving your chance to provide plenty of comments about your tests and the results. If you want to talk about this thread, fine. The conversation from your thread about your review sponsored by the Mafell dealer has ended.

I will remove any posts that are further conversation from the locked thread. It was locked for a reason.

Offline Wooden Lungs

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2012, 03:00 PM »
 I was taught to use the right tool for the right job.

So in any situation at my workplace I would not even consider using a jigsaw to cut large timbers.

The main reason is that they are not primarily used for this purpose and I want to get longevity out of my tools.

Its almost like some extreme testing using a tool beyond its capacity or who can burn out the armature the fastest!

Yes it does say its capable of cutting deep timbers in the manual ( I am refering to all makes of jigsaw) but a practical tool for this purpose?  it is not.

When I bought my carvex I had several things in mind but using it as a mini chainsaw was not one of them.

Even on medium size timbers using a circular saw I would do several passes. Mainly to protect and prolong the life of the tool. Obviously jigsaws get one pass because of blade arrangement.

I would like to see comparisons from someone cutting complex curves in suitable material and comparing jigsaws in that way. I dont expect my jigsaw to be able to cut down telegraph poles quickly or railway sleepers!!!
I just want it to be easy to use and accurate.

Every craftsman has different physical strenght so it is logical that different people cut at a different pace.

Peter has resolved the fact that the carvex was not tested properly and I thank him for it, even though I cringed watching the jigsaw being used in that way.

This is just my personal opinion and I always tell my apprentices that your tools are your "bread and butter" and should be maintained and looked after.

Unfortunately using the right tool for the right jobs means buying lots and lots of tools [tongue]

Law of the instrument. Give a kid a hammer and everthing will look like a nail.....
« Last Edit: October 10, 2012, 03:03 PM by Wooden Lungs »
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Offline green fever

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2012, 03:12 PM »
hi Shane, looking at this thread it seems that we all have the opportunity  to look at the test from pip and peter both of which show different results , i myself have used the carvex 420 and i have had no issues with blade burn, sparks or bad cuts, if more people come forward on here who actually own a carvex 420 we would then know how this saw compares to it's predecessor the 400, only then will we find out how good the new 420 is and if it shows to be good or bad at least we shall know it was shown by end users like myself , i know it's still early days as the 420 is still relatively new in Europe so i guess this may take a little longer, still anyone not happy can within thirty days send the tool back and get a refund  surely that's long enough to know if it's any good ? , green .

Offline neeleman

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #40 on: October 10, 2012, 03:21 PM »
I did a short review of my Carvex PS 420 but did not get many response due to the consternation of the Dutch test.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-reviews/carvex-420-first-impressions/msg224981/#msg224981
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Offline GhostFist

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #41 on: October 10, 2012, 04:05 PM »
I recall a post a while back by someone complaining about not getting square cuts in framing studs using a jigsaw. I remember at the time thinking "who the he'll uses a jigsaw to cut studs?". Am I the only one who thinks this whole thick timbers cut with jigsaw business is out of hand? It seems evident that no jigsaw on the market, despite any bias, can do the job properly. Regardless, i'm happy with my trion for now and won't be forking over the pile for another "high end" jigsaw for a while.

Offline Rembo72

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #42 on: October 10, 2012, 04:09 PM »
you already have one  ;)

Offline GhostFist

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #43 on: October 10, 2012, 04:09 PM »

Offline wooden

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #44 on: October 10, 2012, 06:06 PM »
Am I the only one who thinks this whole thick timbers cut with jigsaw business is out of hand?

I've used my Trion to cut ogees, ovolos and other architectural profiles on 4-5 inch thick sticks.  This was was for arbor/pergola/decking type work.

Most of the sticks were 20 feet long so taking them to a bandsaw wasn't practical.  Portable bandsaws don't have maneuverability needed for these cuts.  The Trion performed very well.

Offline Chems

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #45 on: October 10, 2012, 06:54 PM »
Incredible that a battery powered tool can do that.

That handheld bandsaw is the coolest thing I've ever seen. I have zero need for one now or ever but I want to go and buy one now.

Online mastercabman

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2012, 07:39 PM »


What was the difference between Peters test and ours:

* We used the metal guide , maybe blade drift combined with this caused an issue with the Carvex, Carvex manual states use on rails for 20mm only, using the metal guide is comparable to a rail so it could be accepted as being used against instruction form the manufacturer. What's strange here is that the 3 other saws with guides did not show these issues.


That's exactly what happen!   Sorry to say this but you cannot use a jig saw with a guide and expect to get a straight cut.
The blade needs to be parallel with the foot,witch is pretty hard to do or check since the blade is so small.
MAYBE YOU NEED TO DO A VIDEO WITHOUT USING THE METAL GUIDE!?
I don't understand!?! I keep cutting it,and it's still too short!

Offline Scott Burt

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2012, 07:54 PM »
Am I the only one who thinks this whole thick timbers cut with jigsaw business is out of hand?

You may rest safely assured that you are not. Its an impressive extreme demo, but thats about it, for me. There are a bunch of better ways to buck logs.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #48 on: October 11, 2012, 01:30 AM »
Am I the only one who thinks this whole thick timbers cut with jigsaw business is out of hand?

You may rest safely assured that you are not. Its an impressive extreme demo, but thats about it, for me. There are a bunch of better ways to buck logs.

You are absolutely right. In the unpublished intro of the video review I make that point along with reminding people that there are too many people expecting far too great a quality result from jigsaw work. I hate jigsaws because 99% of my woodwork is fine/delicate work. However, when that 1% comes along it is nice to be able to pull the jigsaw from the drawer.

Peter

Offline ART at WORK

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #49 on: October 11, 2012, 05:59 PM »

You may rest safely assured that you are not. Its an impressive extreme demo, but thats about it, for me. There are a bunch of better ways to buck logs.
[/quote]

You are absolutely right. In the unpublished intro of the video review I make that point along with reminding people that there are too many people expecting far too great a quality result from jigsaw work. I hate jigsaws because 99% of my woodwork is fine/delicate work. However, when that 1% comes along it is nice to be able to pull the jigsaw from the drawer.

Peter
[/quote]

Again I agree with you Peter, a Jigsaw is not the best for fine work, but I was happily surprised how well the 420 operated with a fine blade and good clean square cuts in the first test I did. It really became a good carving tool.

Pip
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Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #50 on: October 12, 2012, 01:56 AM »
Hi Pip

I did a lot of work on the proper 420 video last night. I am getting really good quality cuts which are pretty good for square.

Do you remember that you had an issue with the circle cutter cuttting a few mm off the line? I think it was because you were using the wrong marker on the core maker to mark out where your cut would go. In the picture you can see a mark on each side. I have shown a line scribed by each marker as the core maker rotates. The inner one is for the far side and would be the side that the 420 would attach to cut anti clockwise as recommended.

Peter

Offline ART at WORK

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #51 on: October 12, 2012, 07:44 AM »
Hi Pip

I did a lot of work on the proper 420 video last night. I am getting really good quality cuts which are pretty good for square.

Do you remember that you had an issue with the circle cutter cuttting a few mm off the line? I think it was because you were using the wrong marker on the core maker to mark out where your cut would go. In the picture you can see a mark on each side. I have shown a line scribed by each marker as the core maker rotates. The inner one is for the far side and would be the side that the 420 would attach to cut anti clockwise as recommended.

Peter

Thanks for bringing that up Peter I forgot to follow up on that point.
 
I asked on the Festool Facebook page as they are really quick at answering. (give them a try if you have a problem)
Another woodworker replied  that the markings on the scale are the size of the hole cut not the core that you cut out.
I checked and my hole was spot on 80 mm

I had put my pencil in the double v of the adaptor and drew a line. I was expecting this to be where the saw blade cut.
I now realise the 2 points are like the twin lasers on the Kapex showing the inner and outer point of the blade.

Thank for you checking this.

I do wish Festool would do something about their Instruction manuals they are so minimal. Most computers and the like now send you a link to download the pdf document which is the detailed version.

Im guessing they want you to go to the shop to ask questions, then they can sell you stuff while you'r their.

Thank the gods for FOG.



Pip
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Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #52 on: October 12, 2012, 08:35 AM »
Pip

When I used the Core Maker, set to 150mm, I cut an exact 150mm hole. What you describe above is wrong. Look at the picture that I posted and you will see 2 lines, one drawn from the indent on the side that the blade will be and then other drawn following the indent on the other side. They end up about 10mm apart. The only line that is relevant is the one drawn using the indent on the side where the jigsaw blade will be. Using that line you can drill a hole to take the jigsaw blade in preparation for the cut.

Before you can start the cut you have to do a bit of freehand cutting to get the blade spot on the line. Once it is there, you connect the core maker to the base and cut the circle. I cover this in my video which might be on line by this evening.

Peter

Offline ART at WORK

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #53 on: October 12, 2012, 07:11 PM »
Pip

When I used the Core Maker, set to 150mm, I cut an exact 150mm hole. What you describe above is wrong. Look at the picture that I posted and you will see 2 lines, one drawn from the indent on the side that the blade will be and then other drawn following the indent on the other side. They end up about 10mm apart. The only line that is relevant is the one drawn using the indent on the side where the jigsaw blade will be. Using that line you can drill a hole to take the jigsaw blade in preparation for the cut.

Before you can start the cut you have to do a bit of freehand cutting to get the blade spot on the line. Once it is there, you connect the core maker to the base and cut the circle. I cover this in my video which might be on line by this evening.

Peter

Thanks Peter I will give it another try tomorrow.
Kapex 120 + UG Set, ETS 150/3, DF 500, RO 90, MFT/3, CTL 36 AC, RO 150, 0F 900, OF 2200, T15+3,  CDD 12, TS 55, A5 Router table, First Aid kit, LR 32 SYS, FS 800, FS 1400/2, FS 1400/2 LR32 FS2 3000, CTL Midi + Cleaning Set, Clamps, Parallel Guides, Centrotec drills, Zobo Forstner set and countersinks, Routers, Systainers, Sortainers, Sys Cart, Syslite

Offline bellchippy

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #54 on: November 24, 2012, 10:07 AM »
Great video Peter.
I am toying with getting an 18v PS420, and was wondering if I can use batteries from my TI15 on the jigsaw and can I use 18v battery on my TI15, anyone no the answer to this.

Thanks

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #55 on: November 24, 2012, 10:44 AM »
Hi JMB

I am not certain what you mean but everything is set up as it should be and I am sure that is where Pip had gone wrong.

Can you answer the query above about different batteries as I do not have any Festool drill/drivers. I think that a machine of a given voltage can be powered by batteries of the same or lower voltage.

Peter

Online SRSemenza

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #56 on: November 24, 2012, 03:37 PM »
There is a battery compatibilty chart on page # 125 of current 2011/2012 US catalog.

Yes, higher voltage Festool tool can use lower voltage batteries.

Seth

Offline jmbfestool

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #57 on: November 24, 2012, 04:16 PM »
Great video Peter.
I am toying with getting an 18v PS420, and was wondering if I can use batteries from my TI15 on the jigsaw and can I use 18v battery on my TI15, anyone no the answer to this.

Thanks

YEs you can the Carvex will run from 10.8v  upto 18v batteries

You can buy the 14v carvex or 18v they are both the same jig saw just come with different batteries.  Only two types of cordless Carvex da is barrel grip and D handle

JMB
« Last Edit: November 24, 2012, 04:19 PM by jmbfestool »
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Offline jmbfestool

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #58 on: November 24, 2012, 04:20 PM »
There is a battery compatibilty chart on page # 125 of current 2011/2012 US catalog.

Yes, higher voltage Festool tool can use lower voltage batteries.

Seth

A lower voltage carvex will run a higher voltage battery  they are the same jigsaw  just comes with a different batterie

JMB
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Offline bellchippy

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Re: The Carvex PS420 - A Quick Test in Thick Timbers
« Reply #59 on: November 25, 2012, 02:22 AM »
Thank you all for replies, but if I put 18v carvex battery onto my TI15 will it damage it.