Author Topic: Sawstop Compact Saw  (Read 10498 times)

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Offline ChuckS

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Re: Sawstop Compact Saw
« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2022, 07:23 PM »
That's what everyone thinks until there is an accident.

Anyone could get hurt from anything at anytime, I would consider a bandsaw far more dangerous than a table saw, but none of them have any safety technology built in.

Finger-saving technology has already existed for band saws and been in use. It's an Australian innovation, and first came to use in band saws in the meat industry. The woodworking band saw manufacturers have yet to adopt the technology.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2022, 07:52 PM by ChuckS »

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Offline ChuckS

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Re: Sawstop Compact Saw
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2022, 07:28 PM »
The greatest number of injuries suffered from table saws by a huge margin is not finger or hand injuries from blade contact but kick back Snip.

Care to share the data source to back that up?

The OSHA record seems to suggest otherwise:

https://www.osha.gov/ords/imis/AccidentSearch.search?p_logger=1&acc_description=table+saw&acc_Abstract=&acc_keyword=&sic=&naics=&Office=All&officetype=All&endmonth=11&endday=25&endyear=2002&startmonth=11&startday=25&startyear=2023&InspNr=

Some table saw finger or hand injuries are also caused by kickback.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2022, 07:51 PM by ChuckS »

Offline ChuckS

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Re: Sawstop Compact Saw
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2022, 10:23 PM »
There has also been a widespread misconception that the sliding table saw is a close-to-accident-free machine. Nothing is further from the truth, especially in an industrial setting. If sliding saws were "harmless," the three (?) major sliding saw manufacturers would not have spent money and come up with their own finger-saving sliding saws.




Offline Mini Me

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Re: Sawstop Compact Saw
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2022, 02:43 AM »
The greatest number of injuries suffered from table saws by a huge margin is not finger or hand injuries from blade contact but kick back Snip.

Care to share the data source to back that up?

The OSHA record seems to suggest otherwise:

https://www.osha.gov/ords/imis/AccidentSearch.search?p_logger=1&acc_description=table+saw&acc_Abstract=&acc_keyword=&sic=&naics=&Office=All&officetype=All&endmonth=11&endday=25&endyear=2002&startmonth=11&startday=25&startyear=2023&InspNr=

Some table saw finger or hand injuries are also caused by kickback.

It appears they don't log kickbacks because most of them are unreported. You only have to peruse fora such as this to see that kickbacks far outweigh finger and hand injuries. As you say some finger and hand injuries can be caused by kickback, I wonder how many hand injuries are caused by push sticks contacting the blade, they are an unstable and positively dangerous to use but I expect I am in the minority with that view though Jeremy Scmidt of YT fame certainly agrees with me and is very vocal on it in one of his videos.

Offline Crazyraceguy

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Re: Sawstop Compact Saw
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2022, 07:38 AM »
That's what everyone thinks until there is an accident.

Anyone could get hurt from anything at anytime, I would consider a bandsaw far more dangerous than a table saw, but none of them have any safety technology built in.

When use correctly, a bandsaw is the safest cutting tool out there. The cutting force is downward, so it cannot kickback at you. The force is constant, so there is no chance of vibrating or jumping, as a jigsaw or reciprocating saw can. The only time a bandsaw can be dangerous is when you (as every Youtube woodworker does) leave the upper blade guide too high. I can't tell you how many videos I have seen with someone cutting 3/4" material, with the blade guide 5 or 6 inches off the table.
I yell at the TV every time. "Put that blade guide down."
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Offline ChuckS

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Re: Sawstop Compact Saw
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2022, 09:19 AM »

It appears they don't log kickbacks because most of them are unreported. You only have to peruse fora such as this to see that kickbacks far outweigh finger and hand injuries. As you say some finger and hand injuries can be caused by kickback, I wonder how many hand injuries are caused by push sticks contacting the blade, they are an unstable and positively dangerous to use but I expect I am in the minority with that view though Jeremy Scmidt of YT fame certainly agrees with me and is very vocal on it in one of his videos.

The OSHA database includes kickback incidents if they result in an injury. If a kickback doesn't result in any injury that requires a trip to the hospital, obviously it doesn't get reported/recorded. You can browse the OSHA records one by one if you're interested in knowing how often it is mentioned as a cause for injuries (say, to the hand, eye, face, etc.). Same for the use of the push stick incorrectly.

The #1 reason for injuries (based on the first few pages of entries I've read) seems to be using the saw without the guard.

Forum discussions are NOT a reliable or valid source as a basis to say kickbacks happen more than finger and hand injuries. We should rely on official statistics collected or documented by hospitals or entities such as the OSHA.

Based on the info. collected by the US Consumer Products Safety Commission, about 10 table saw amputations happen every day in the States. Let's not downplay the role of finger-saving technology such as the SawStop and those advanced detection technology features on the sliding saws when we discuss table saw safety.

(One can find many examples of table saw injuries to the hand or fingers on the SawStop site. One can assume that most, if not all, of them (in the thousands according to SawStop) didn't require a treatment at a hospital, and hence don't get into any gov't injury data collection system.)

« Last Edit: November 26, 2022, 09:40 AM by ChuckS »

Offline ChuckS

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Re: Sawstop Compact Saw
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2022, 09:26 AM »
Snip.
I can't tell you how many videos I have seen with someone cutting 3/4" material, with the blade guide 5 or 6 inches off the table.

The best known woodworker who worked with exposed blade is the late Sam Maloof, but he always forewarned his audience that no one should follow him as an example in the way he used the band saw. For the record, one of his fingers was cut shorter.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2022, 09:30 AM by ChuckS »

Online dashboardpws

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Re: Sawstop Compact Saw
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2022, 10:14 AM »
Speaking of kickback, one time a knotty piece of 2x2, which I probably shouldn't have been ripping anyway, shot past me and lodged in the bathroom door at our shop about 18ft away, exactly at the level where it would've impaled anyone using the toilet at that moment. As a reminder, we haven't repaired the door.

Offline ChuckS

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Re: Sawstop Compact Saw
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2022, 10:27 AM »
Even though I have never encountered any serious kickback like the one you shared, its seriousness was etched into my mind when I took my first woodworking lesson for basic machines. After the first night of instruction on table saws, one of the participants returned for the next class, proclaiming that she might not have been able to join us because she had a kickback incident using her own saw at home. She showed us a broken pencil that she put in her apron's upper pocket. A little higher, she said, she could have been hospitalized.

The riving knife does not kick in until the stock reaches well past the back teeth of the blade, and that means kickbacks can still happen with the use of the riving knife. So for me, the best protection against kickbacks (other than not standing in the line of fire, which can be awkward at times as I'm right-handed when using tools) is the use of both the riving knife and JessEm clear stock guides. Properly set, the JessEm table saw guides are fool-proof.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2022, 10:30 AM by ChuckS »

Offline squall_line

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Re: Sawstop Compact Saw
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2022, 11:34 AM »
Speaking of kickback, one time a knotty piece of 2x2, which I probably shouldn't have been ripping anyway, shot past me and lodged in the bathroom door at our shop about 18ft away, exactly at the level where it would've impaled anyone using the toilet at that moment. As a reminder, we haven't repaired the door.

I have a few of those reminders from various incidents through the years.

The one that comes quickest to mind is the piece of scrap/pig iron that narrowly missed my helmet and hit me in the shoulder traveling down the interstate on my motorcycle.  I was wearing a protective jacket at the time, and the piece of metal landed in my lap after bouncing off my shoulder and then the tank.

Offline grbmds

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Re: Sawstop Compact Saw
« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2022, 12:07 PM »
How do you find the power compared to the jobsite pro? I was looking at the weight difference isn’t actually that much? I am going to buy one or the other, I’m on the tools everyday. Will the compact saw rip through 2x material easily? I’m 17 years in and the older I get the more underrated I think safety is. Maybe just getting a bit smarter as I get older maybe just more reckless with my money instead of my body


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I don't know anything about the compact Sawstop but have owned the Jobsite saw since it first was available. I love it. It serves almost all my needs for ripping and some crosscutting. I do most of my crosscutting other ways. The one negative about smaller saws is the table size; mainly the distance between the front edge of the table and the front edge of the saw blade. With the smaller size of the Compact saw I would think this is even a more noticeable limitation. There are certainly ways to accommodate longer pieces, especially longer rips, but it is a drawback. Other than that and the low quality miter gauge (which I've replace with an after market gauge), I have no negative feedback on the Jobsite saw. If the motor on the compact matches that saw, no problem. If it's less power, then it may be an issue. It all dpends on what you plan to use the saw for. As with the Jobsite, it's just necessary to realize it's not a cabinet saw.
Randy

Offline ChuckS

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Re: Sawstop Compact Saw
« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2022, 02:54 PM »
To increase the size of the top, I knew a woodworker who used a method similar to this (but he didn't bolt the extension to the saw permanently; he used some kind of clamping elements, if I remember correctly):



Sometimes, even a cabinet saw may benefit from an extension at the front:






« Last Edit: November 26, 2022, 03:25 PM by ChuckS »

Offline Svar

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Re: Sawstop Compact Saw
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2022, 03:14 PM »
The greatest number of injuries suffered from table saws by a huge margin is not finger or hand injuries from blade contact but kick back Snip.
Care to share the data source to back that up?
The OSHA record seems to suggest otherwise:
It appears they don't log kickbacks because most of them are unreported.
If kickbacks are mostly unreported how do you know they "cause greatest number of injuries suffered from table saws by a huge margin"?

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 4255
Re: Sawstop Compact Saw
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2022, 11:48 AM »
One can learn a lot by studying the OSHA entries. As Mini Me pointed out, the push sticks, used incorrectly, can cause kickbacks. There's an entry on that. I use a push stick only with the JessEm clear stock guides in place; I go for the push shoe otherwise. 

Another learning point is that don't wear gloves when working with the table saw, drill press, etc., another kind of injury-causing entry that you can find on the OSHA link. This YouTuber, based on one or two of his videos I came across, has a few habits that could get him into trouble, including wearing gloves when using the table saw (he should get a SawStop to protect himself. His purchase should be tax-deductible as a depreciation charge):



If I were a school shop teacher, I'd put the OSHA injury reports (classified under different machines such as miter saws, circular saws, etc.) on the Course Reading List.

« Last Edit: November 27, 2022, 06:52 PM by ChuckS »