Author Topic: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)  (Read 54574 times)

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Offline Chinski

  • Posts: 55
Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #60 on: April 27, 2019, 04:12 AM »
 So, following up on the dust extraction question here…

I’m told that when my festool  ts55 kicks out dust at the end of a cut, that this is purely physics because of the direction the blade is spinning in and the fact that there is nothing in front of the stock to catch the dust when the blade exits the wood at the end of the cut.

But on the videos I have seen of the mafell,  there does not seem to be a similar plume of dust emerging at the end of the cuts. Is this a function of poor video quality (?!) or is the mafell in fact doing something different and better – therefore reducing that final dust plume?

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Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #61 on: April 27, 2019, 05:02 AM »
As I said in my previous post, and just in my opinion, the Mafell is the best designed plunge saw out there at the moment, this includes the dust extraction.
It has a fully enclosed side plate, with a gasket, that seals the whole side off to aid extraction, and it works really well.
It also exposes the whole of the blade when opened for easy blade change.
My Makita has a piece of duct tape on the side plate to help with extraction, which also works well.
Not in the Mafell class though, or price range  ;)

Online six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1053
  • aka @the_black_tie_diyer
Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #62 on: April 27, 2019, 05:23 AM »
Hi!

Take a look here, FF to 13:05 or more clear, FF to 16:15 ->

The MT55cc spills at the end of the cut, too.



Kind regards,
Oliver
« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 05:27 AM by six-point socket II »
Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #63 on: April 27, 2019, 08:49 AM »
I think the spill at the end of the cut, is where the waste piece falls away, sort of like the shield being removed. I think this would happen with any plunge saw regardless of design.
There is certainly minimal dust during cutting, when the saw is travelling along the rail.

Online six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1053
  • aka @the_black_tie_diyer
Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #64 on: April 27, 2019, 09:02 AM »
I think the spill at the end of the cut, is where the waste piece falls away, sort of like the shield being removed. I think this would happen with any plunge saw regardless of design.
There is certainly minimal dust during cutting, when the saw is travelling along the rail.

Yes.

Sometimes I really can't help but wonder.

@Chinski opened a thread here: http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/oh-i'm-so-disappointed-ts55-and-dust-'(-advice/msg576828/#msg576828 because he's being disappointed with exactly this spill when using his TS 55.

You replied to that thread btw.

Now this post follows.

So, following up on the dust extraction question here…

I’m told that when my festool  ts55 kicks out dust at the end of a cut, that this is purely physics because of the direction the blade is spinning in and the fact that there is nothing in front of the stock to catch the dust when the blade exits the wood at the end of the cut.

But on the videos I have seen of the mafell,  there does not seem to be a similar plume of dust emerging at the end of the cuts. Is this a function of poor video quality (?!) or is the mafell in fact doing something different and better – therefore reducing that final dust plume?

Your reply:

As I said in my previous post, and just in my opinion, the Mafell is the best designed plunge saw out there at the moment, this includes the dust extraction.
It has a fully enclosed side plate, with a gasket, that seals the whole side off to aid extraction, and it works really well.
It also exposes the whole of the blade when opened for easy blade change.
My Makita has a piece of duct tape on the side plate to help with extraction, which also works well.
Not in the Mafell class though, or price range  ;)

Then I posted the video - to show exactly that the Mafell will lead to another disappointment for @Chinski because it spills at the end of cut just as any other plunge saw does.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #65 on: April 27, 2019, 12:05 PM »
Not sure what point you’re making Oliver, perhaps I’m missing something?
Btw, I haven’t watched the video, I’m assuming we’re talking about the dust expelled at the beginning and ending of a cut?
I am saying that I am happy with all of my plunge saws, including dust collection, and in my opinion the Mafell is the best designed, including dust collection but, the Makita is still my favourite plunge saw.

The amount of dust being expelled at the end of a cut, will probably differ, depending on the material being cut and it’s thickness, and motor speed and blade type.
I can’t give a scientific explanation or formula, I’d imagine it’s impossible not to get some dust at the end of a cut, unless the whole underside is enclosed but, then where would the blade protrude from?

It’s certainly not a problem or concern to me, I accept that in carpentry, joinery and woodwork, that I am going to see sawdust still, no matter how good and efficient machines have become nowadays. Obviously I would prefer to see as little as possible.
Expecting no sawdust in woodworking, is a little like a mechanic not expecting to see grease or oil occasionally?

I might actually carry out a full experiment at some stage but, from what I’ve seen the Mafell has the best dust collection.


Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #66 on: April 27, 2019, 12:09 PM »
Oliver, are you and Chinski expecting no dust at all from the TS55 and MT55 whilst cutting?
If so, I’m not sure a saw of such capability exists?

Online six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1053
  • aka @the_black_tie_diyer
Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #67 on: April 27, 2019, 12:15 PM »
Not sure what point you’re making Oliver, perhaps I’m missing something?
(...)

I’d imagine it’s impossible not to get some dust at the end of a cut, unless the whole underside is enclosed but, then where would the blade protrude from?

(...)

This is exactly the point I tried to make. Trying to save @Chinski from another disappointment - as this happens with every plunge saw.

And like you, I expect some dust, oil, grease, (...) - but obviously some people are intrigued by the "no dust" claims and shocked when they find out it's only  98 or 99%.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Kind regards,
Oliver

Online six-point socket II

  • Posts: 1053
  • aka @the_black_tie_diyer
Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #68 on: April 27, 2019, 12:20 PM »
Oliver, are you and Chinski expecting no dust at all from the TS55 and MT55 whilst cutting?
If so, I’m not sure a saw of such capability exists?

I obviously can't speak for Chinski, but from his thread I get the feeling he expected way less dust.

I on the other hand, I don't care one bit about that spillage at the end of a cut. I'm entirely happy with my Festool tools, the way they operate and dust is extracted. But I might be a rare bird, a very tired rare bird at that.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #69 on: April 27, 2019, 12:46 PM »
Not sure what point you’re making Oliver, perhaps I’m missing something?
(...)

I’d imagine it’s impossible not to get some dust at the end of a cut, unless the whole underside is enclosed but, then where would the blade protrude from?

(...)

This is exactly the point I tried to make. Trying to save @Chinski from another disappointment - as this happens with every plunge saw.

And like you, I expect some dust, oil, grease, (...) - but obviously some people are intrigued by the "no dust" claims and shocked when they find out it's only  98 or 99%.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Ah ok, fair enough Oliver, I’m also very tired having only four hours sleep last night, so I might of missed a few points as a consequence.
Like yourself, some dust doesn’t worry me, although I would prefer the minimum. I recently bought a Kapex 120 and initially wasn’t overwhelmed by the dust extraction, although I have greatly remedied it now, it wasn’t a deal breaker by any means though.

I can’t find any issues or niggles with any of my plunge saws but, I think it’s afair comment to say the Mafell is the best in design. I’m sure on proper inspection and comparison others would agree. Even so, it’s still not my favourite.

Anyway, not sure about you but, I need a nap!  [big grin] ;)

Offline duburban

  • Posts: 1043
Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #70 on: April 27, 2019, 10:56 PM »
Can someone give me the cliff notes on the OP ?
helper: i used a festool "circular saw" to do something simple and it made it really hard

me: exactly, it makes simple cuts complicated and complicated cuts simple

Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 473
Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #71 on: May 12, 2019, 08:43 AM »
The Mafell plunge saw doesn't have  a horizontal grip handle.
So for me, an inferior saw  when compared to my  ts55.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #72 on: May 12, 2019, 04:43 PM »
The Mafell plunge saw doesn't have  a horizontal grip handle.
So for me, an inferior saw  when compared to my  ts55.

I can assure you, there’s nothing inferior about the MT55, it might not be to your taste but, the Mafell is almost certainly the best designed plunge saw out there.
I still prefer the cordless Makita though, that has a horizontal handle but, I never use it.
Each to their own  ;)

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4326
Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #73 on: May 12, 2019, 05:13 PM »
The Mafell plunge saw doesn't have  a horizontal grip handle.
So for me, an inferior saw  when compared to my  ts55.

I can assure you, there’s nothing inferior about the MT55, it might not be to your taste but, the Mafell is almost certainly the best designed plunge saw out there.
I still prefer the cordless Makita though, that has a horizontal handle but, I never use it.
Each to their own  ;)

Which one is that?


Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #75 on: June 29, 2019, 02:53 PM »
The Mafell plunge saw doesn't have  a horizontal grip handle.
So for me, an inferior saw  when compared to my  ts55.

I also have the Mafell MT55cc (the cordless) and have used Festool for many years. The handle is nice to have at times but not a deal breaker. I have the Bosch GKT 55 CE which is a similar saw to the Mafell and it has the handle. I use it primarily to cut Staron and Corian and the handle is nice to have for those types of material and for finicky plunging. The track system (FSN) from Bosch is superior I think, especially when having to link up a few rails. I have only heard positive things about the Makita. Personally I prefer single battery saws but if I were more invested in Makita I think I would have gone for their dual battery track saw.
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #76 on: June 29, 2019, 03:05 PM »
Been using my Mafell all week, it’s a great saw, anybody that owns one will know.
I did miss the Makita though.
I’m seriously considering moving on the TS55 and possibly the MT55, and getting the cordless Mafell. I think my Makita being cordless, is part of the reason it’s my favourite.

Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #77 on: June 29, 2019, 03:18 PM »
That could be the case. I am totally loving the Mafell MT55 cordless. I use it for the same type of stuff I use the MT55cc and would not consider switching back to corded. I run the Festool CTL M with BT switch on the hose end and I am very happy with that solution.

Most of all I am happy to be back in the FSN rail system. The Bosch and Mafell runs on both rail systems so I could have kept some Festool rails.  You could keep your Makita rails though part of the lure of the Mafell is the Bosch rails.

If you don't mind the two separate systems and dual battery approach you might have one of the best battery track saws in the Makita already though. :)
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #78 on: June 29, 2019, 03:23 PM »
Personally, I think the Mafell plunge saws are the best out there, the thing is, I just gel with the Makita.
Maybe a cordless Mafell could be my new best friend though?

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 786
Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #79 on: July 01, 2019, 07:45 PM »
My MT55 makes my TS55 look filthy in the dust collection department.  Track joining is SO easy.  The angle jig thing works pretty well.  No more double stick tape guides coming off, no more multiple lengths of rails, etc. 

I'll save the TS55 for cement board cuts and to use as a standard circular saw.

Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #80 on: July 02, 2019, 04:56 PM »
Personally, I think the Mafell plunge saws are the best out there, the thing is, I just gel with the Makita.
Maybe a cordless Mafell could be my new best friend though?

If you have Metabo/Mafell batteries to spare you would not regret it. If you are neck deep in Makita batteries you can't really go that much wrong with the Makita. It seems like a genuine work horse.
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #81 on: July 02, 2019, 05:23 PM »
I bought a TS55 and very soon after, decided to go with what was probably my first choice the Mafell MT55. The TS55 hasn’t really seen much action since, and is like new. I might sell it but, it’s well out of warranty now, and might serve better as a spare.

Then because we have ported over almost completely to cordless for site and mobile work, and have an obscene amount of Makita batteries, we went for the cordless bluetooth saw and extractor. No regrets and I love it but, that may be because it’s cordless, the other two saw are not.

I’ve always held Mafell in high regard despite not owning hardly any of their tools but, I think if I went with a cordless Mafell it would either be a new favourite which is highly likely, or it could be a costly wrong decision.
The truth is, I don’t currently need another plunge saw of any type but, I remember saying similar about mitre saws and went on to buy a Kapex 120. That was certainly needed though.

I’m currently wrestling with myself regarding a much more expensive Maffel tool though  ;)

Offline blaszcsj

  • Posts: 464
  • I like building stuff with my hands.
Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #82 on: July 02, 2019, 09:28 PM »
On the rails. I really want to buy the new metabo rails that join. Anybody know where to get them in the USA?
OF1010 EQ Router | MFT/3 | DF500Q | Carvex 420 | ETS EC 150/3 | CT 36 Auto Clean | TSC55 | LR32 | OF1400 EQ Router | ZOBO Metric Set | CXS Li 2.6 - 90 Limited Edition | Universal Cleaning Set | HKC55 | Centrotec CE-SORT | RO150 FEQ | DTS 400 | RO90 DX | CTSYS | C18 Drill | SysLite KALII | Syslite STL 450 | RAS 115 E | OF2200 EB

Offline Euclid

  • Posts: 185
Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #83 on: July 03, 2019, 07:56 AM »
I’m currently wrestling with myself regarding a much more expensive Maffel tool though  ;)

Such as... an Erika, maybe?

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #84 on: July 03, 2019, 04:31 PM »
I’m currently wrestling with myself regarding a much more expensive Maffel tool though  ;)

Such as... an Erika, maybe?

Indeed  ;)

Offline HowardH

  • Posts: 1186
Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #85 on: July 06, 2019, 02:57 AM »
I'm in Munich at the moment and went to a Mafell/Festool dealer here while the wife and kiddo were doing something else.  I was hoping to see an Erika in person but they didn't have one set up at the time.  The sales guy told me it is much, much more robust than the Festool equivalent.  I did get to hold the DD40P and the DDF40. I see one in my future, no matter if I need it or not.  I'll figure something out to build just to use it.   
Howard H
The Dallas Texas Festool Fanatic!

Mark Twain:  "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a letter approving of it." "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

mft1080, Trion, MFT/3, T15, OF 1400, RO150FEQ, TS55, RTS400, CT22, CT36E, 800, 1080, 1400, 1900 rails, CSX, C18, Vecturo, Qwas dogs, Parf Dogs, Zobo's, Syslite Uni, CMS GE with router and jig saw plates.  Sawstop contractor.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 827
Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #86 on: July 06, 2019, 05:50 PM »
Yes, I mean no disrespect to Festool but, the Erika 85e is the king of mobile table saws, and currently by a fair margin.

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 786
Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #87 on: July 12, 2019, 12:28 PM »
The MT55 (track saw) and P1CC (jigsaw) at Timberwolf are at the lowest price I've seen them short of eBay. 
Substantially lower than what I paid for them less than a year ago.  [sad] [mad] [crying]  That figures. 

Offline PeterJJames13

  • Posts: 198
Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #88 on: July 12, 2019, 12:54 PM »
The MT55 (track saw) and P1CC (jigsaw) at Timberwolf are at the lowest price I've seen them short of eBay. 
Substantially lower than what I paid for them less than a year ago.  [sad] [mad] [crying]  That figures.

Me too lol. But that duo doweler price looks really attractive....

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 786
Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
« Reply #89 on: July 12, 2019, 12:59 PM »
This is a special Mafell sale that runs until the end of September.  The DD40F is now in 120v and also on sale.  If you've purchased a tool from them since January it may be worth giving them a call.  It was for me. 

I'll be adding the DD40F soon, and possibly the hole drilling extensions.