Festool Owners Group

FESTOOL DISCUSSIONS => Festool Tool Reviews => Topic started by: Geo on November 30, 2015, 02:09 AM

Title: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Geo on November 30, 2015, 02:09 AM
Regarding Festool vs Mafell 55 plunge / track saws... I have both, ( and the Makita) and can give you the straight dope...

For system integration and convenience, plus wide availability and service, Festool wins.

If you want "the best", then Mafell has substantial advantages in features and quality.

Here's WHY I say that:

My Mafell MT55 has a completely enclosed blade guard, which improves dust collection. Sure, Festool's dust collection is great too. Mafell is just better at catching the last bit of fine dust that escapes from the hole on the festool saws.

Blade changes are faster on the Mafell. Search online for videos to see it for yourself. I consider that an advantage when I am carrying only ONE saw to do several things, therefore fast blade-changes are helpful. My entire travel kit fits in the back of a Honda Civic, partly because of the Mafell Track saw and Mafell jigsaw. ( the Mafell jigsaw is head and shoulders above any other jigsaw, including Festool. yes, I have both.)

The pivot-locking is faster on Mafell---one knob instead of two. It still locks at both ends like Festool’s, but a steel rod connects both ends so only one knob is needed.
Depth of cut and angle settings are more robust, secure, fast and easy. 

When you pick up the Mafell, you'll know. Just looking at it in photos doesn't help you see and FEEL the difference in weight, strength, general engineering. The tracks and track connections are VASTLY better, much more rigid and heavy duty... made of thick wide STEEL, not thin soft aluminum. 

There is only ONE feature about the MT55 that SOME users MAY need, but can't get---
the riving knife.

Apparently, it's very difficult to get permission in Germany ( or the EU) to even make a saw WITHOUT a riving knife... but Mafell jumped through those legal hoops to make it happen. WHY? Because they know the riving knife on a small circular saw is USUALLY superfluous. The only time we really need that riving knife is when we rip solid timber, especially if it is not properly dried.

You'll note that ALL the BIG timber-framing saws Mafell makes DO have riving knives for that reason.

The Makita also has no riving knife. Since I use that at home for plywood or KD only, I have only had one instance of kickback, and that was because the tracks were dusty and I didn’t use the clamps. Keep clean tracks and use clamps, you’ll never have a kickback with plywood or engineered lumber. So long as we are cutting sheet goods or good dry solid lumber, you don't need a riving knife. As soon as we start cutting BIG TIMBERS, or wet wood, then that riving knife is a good thing!

Therefore, If I was doing timber framing anymore, I'd go with the Festool TS75 ( at the bare minimum) or one of the other Mafell LARGE saws with riving knives.

Convenience and accessories...
Festool certainly has the edge in convenience and system integration. Their tools fit their power and vac connections. So long as you stick with Festool, you're good to go! Their vacuums fit all their tools. That’s true if you go ALL Mafell too, but then you’re in another echelon of cost. 

I consider Festool’s system integration an advantage simply because I don't have to think about it. Just go Festool all the way, and your thinking is done for you. You pay a premium for accessories, but consider the value of your time. If you are fed up worrying about it, just go Festool. It's plenty good enough and has most of the features you could want, certainly all the features you need.

Problems arise when you need another section of track, or want to use another brand of router, jigsaw, etc. 

The instant you need to bodge Festool stuff together with another brand, you're out of luck. Mafell saws CAN use Festool, Makita and Bosch tracks. You can't get Festool to work with Mafell tracks. Likewise, the DeWalt track-saw has a unique track with the guide-rail in the middle. I like that because there are TWO zero-clearance strips. But again, you can’t use their tracks with any other saw and vice-versa.

Mafell has great vaccums too, but frankly, I prefer the square top design of Festool vacs. Yes, you can use Mafell saws and hoses with Festool vacuums interchangeably. I just like the little Festool vacs for portability and convenient tool-holding.   

Service... Festool is well known for its service. I have only had one problem with Festool stuff (the older jigsaw) and they took care of it fast, without any grousing.

Conversely, I have NEVER had any issues with Mafell, despite using Mafell saws since 1978. Those timber framing crews that introduced me to Mafell back then didn't just use Mafell saws... they used the ever lovin' $H1T out of 'em! For the really heavy duty stuff, Mafell is the way to go. It should be considering Mafell is far more expensive. Mafell is the German analog to Northfield Machinery of heavy duty portable equipment. It’s expensive and worth it.   

Now that Mafell is finally becoming recognized in the states, Timberwolf Tools has relocated their main warehouse to Chicago. That dramatically improves shipping and turnaround times should you ever have a problem. I know from experience that Timberwolf stands behind every product they sell, 100%

Jeffery Powel (8008694169) is the guy I talk to there for advice, and you will probably need some advice when buying Mafell. Reason: Mafell is NO WHERE NEAR as clever at marketing and promotion. You have to dig through online catalogs and learn their peculiar teutonic protocols to even understand the catalog listings. Even with some experience navigating their website, I STILL call Jeff before placing an order.

One thing is certain... Timberwolf ships FAST! So far, everything I got from them was delivered the next day. Super packaging. No problems with shipping damage, even with the awkward long tracks and little parts ( clamps, edge guide, angle guide / protractors etc.) And BTW... don't believe the prices are written in stone. Sure, like Festool, Mafell has MAP pricing by contract, but there are ways around that. If you do enough business with Timberwolf, they'll work with you as much as they can. Because I’m tool-crazy, I might just spring for a mafell Bandsaw and one of those Erika table saws... but NOT before I talk to Jeff! 

Most Festool dealers are good since they all can get Festool training. Festool works with their dealers to insure they know the products. I buy Festool stuff locally since we have a dealer here.

I made the mistake of buying some Festool stuff from CPO Festool. Never again.

In general, all the CPO services are junk and they only care about making more sales. Call them and ask a few questions to see for yourself.

Although Amazon has a good return policy, there is no one there to give buying advice or answers to user questions.. other than some users... and some of them are shills.

You’re better off not buying tools from huge outlets or Amazon no matter which brand you choose. Find your nearest dealer... or if you don’t have one nearby, talk to a reliable dealer: Lee Valley in Canada; Highland, Rockler or Woodcraft in the USA. There are other good dealers I’m sure. It’s just that I know from long experience you can trust those resources.   

So, My advice? If you need the BEST dust collection, the most features ( minus riving knife for the small saws)  or just want the Supreme BEST heavy duty tools... get Mafell.
Their Jigsaw is BY FAR the BEST. Likewise, the Mafell MT55 has some advantages over Festool in that size range.

However, if you plan to work with solid wood ( instead of plywood or other engineered panels) you'll want the riving knife. Festool’s small saw (TS55) and their big saw (TS75) both have ‘em.

Now, this last part is subjective and depends on what kind of work you do...

If you want to save time building cabinets, then the TS75's depth-of-cut is an advantage over any 55mm saw. With that, you can stack two to four sheets of plywood to make matching cuts on opposing carcass faces. You CAN gang TWO sheets with the 55’s, but you’ll unlikely gang FOUR like you can with bigger saws.

Gang-cutting speeds production and guarantees equal sized parts. That gang-cutting approach is a time saver for other applications too: making internal components for torsion boxes, cutting many small interior drawers at once, ripping many thin strips for boat building or fancy laminated furniture.

If I built those kinds of things more, then I'd go with Festool TS75.
If I was young enough to do timber framing anymore, I'd definitely go Mafell, all the way. But there, we're not talking about the little MT55... we're talking the ultra skookum BIG BOY saws! (WAY over the thousand dollar range) Those saws run on 220, so you either need an industrial power drop or a BIG PRO generator to run them. For installers, cabinet makers and us old fart retirees, Festool is the easy way out and PLENTY good enough.

BTW: the new Mafell MT55 plus a track, roller edge guide, angle guide, xero-clearance inserts and stuff cost me $1375. You can get the small Festool saw AND a vac for that. But then, I’m crazy and bought both.   

As it is, I have both brands to cover any situation. At home INSIDE, I prefer Festool.
For outside stuff at home, I use the Makita. When I need ONE SAW for every job, I bring the Mafell, a few blades and some accessories.

 People talk about festool stuff for pros or “spendy” hobbyists, but they never really mention WHY Festool’s system approach is so popular in Europe.

European homes are not nearly as big as American homes. The REAL reason you might want Festool’s whole system approach is to save space. If you don’t have much room and still want pro-level accuracy, Festool shines. You can get an entire workshop in a small van or bedroom, and set it up in minutes. If you work at home, Festool’s dust collection is good enough to keep your wife from divorcing you.

When I do volunteer work, I want to travel light yet remain versatile.That's when the Mafell fast blade changes really shines. But then again, I have my own custom made rolling rig with a panel saw jig. I can switch from rip to cross cut faster than most guys can move stuff to a miter saw. The Mafell angle guide is fast and perfect. I can also slow the saw down, (just like Festool) and use a metal cutting blade. No need to have a different saw. However, If I know I must have two saws, the festool and Mafell boxes fit together perfectly. Festool has speed control too, but Mafell motors are stronger and I’ve never had one “thermal out” on me. I have had the TS75 quit when cutting wet wood or sheet metal. Conversely, I have cut 3/8ths stainless sheets with my little Mafell.

BTW, Festool has a spark arrestor attachment for their Vacs... highly recommended if you are cutting BOTH wood AND metal using the same vacuum!

So, the bottom line is simple... if you work mostly with solid timber or plan to do production cabinet making, get the Festool TS75. You'll pay for it and never have to think about it again.

If you justadmire fine tools, or need the speed and flexibility, get the Mafell. If you want to get ONE THING by Mafell, the choose their Jigsaw. Make everything else Festool and you’re golden. 

I recognize that some people "just want the best." Perhaps they are hobbyists who don't want to be clever inventing their own jigs, tracks, dust collection rigs. They just want to have the most fun with the least hassle. Then, either festool of mafell is great. Festool costs less and is more widely available from reputable dealers. Timberwolf is reputable, but you have no other options. 

I also recognize that some people ( especially pros) want convenience and don't want to waste time mulling over every detail choosing tools.

If you are a pro, you don't care much what the tools cost up front, since you can deduct depreciation. If a thing costs more, you get larger deductions. Make your darn accountant do his job and by April 15th you won’t care about price. After five years, it’s all a wash no matter which brand you choose. 

So the real problem is, can you get everything you want within ONE brand? Yeah... Festool can give you almost everything you'll need.

My personal perspective is peculiar, since I both LOVE fine tools (and can afford them) and yet, I HATE fussing over details. Now retired, woodworking is mostly a hobby for fun, home-repair DIY, or volunteer work to help others. I don’t have time to fuss over niggling details of every tool purchase. Far too many times, trying to “find the best deal” has ended up costing me more time and money. Now, I'd rather just buy the darn thing and see how it works. If I like, I keep it. If I hate it, I send it back. Simple.

BOTH Mafell and Festool have sufficient time windows for customer satisfaction trial. Both companies stand behind their tools. I just prefer to buy fabulous engineering ( like the Mafell) but also enjoy the simple system approach Festool brings.

If your time is valuable... just go Festool and get it over with.
If you are doing heavy duty timber framing or just want the most rugged precise saws with the best features... go Mafell.

I still like my little Makita track saw too. For $350, it’s great. If money is the main issue, go Makita.

If you need a supreme jigsaw, Get the Mafell no matter what brand of other tools you choose. Honestly, it cuts BETTER than my two 10 inch bandsaws... no exaggeration!

Therefore, assuming only quality and features are important (not cost) here is the 2015 / 2016 list:

If I had to choose ONE track saw? I’d get the festool TS75. It’s BIG enough to do gang cutting, has the riving knife in case I need it AND it fits with other Festool stuff I like.

If I had to choose ONE sander? Rotex 150. One sander does three different jobs. Carry less. Do more.

One joinery system? The small festool Domino... no contest. I still use my biscuit joiner for many things, but for sheer strength, NOTHING beats a tenon and NOTHING is faster or easier than the Domino.

One worm-drive framing saw? Makita magnesium Hypoid. I don’t do ANY framing anymore. Too old. But I still bought one of those because they’re Skookum.
 
One sidewinder “do everything” Circ saw? DeWalt 364 or 384. The DW360’s are unique because of the parallel adjustment feature and the front depth adjustment. If you need to make a homemade table saw with a sidewinder, THAT is by far the best saw to get. It also does everything else a sidewinder should do, VERY well. Strong. Good design. No dust collection to speak of.

One jigsaw? Mafell... no contest. Again just today, I had to cut fancy curves to mount some garden tools to the garage wall. I already had the bandsaw set up, so I tried that first. Too slow and the cuts were jagged. Got out the Mafell jigsaw, clamped it in the workmate and went to town. Perfect beautiful cuts in half the time. No kidding.
 
One miter saw? Bosch or Makita. Bosch for compound sliding; Makita for chop saw.

If factory installed dust control is crucial, the bite the bullet, get the Festool miter saw.
If you know how to modify your tools, the others are just as accurate and CAN provide good dust collection.

Vaccums? Festool... any size. I have two. Mini and the 26.

For more chip collection ( as opposed to fine dust) I got the best results with a ridgid 5 gallon attached to a Rockler DustRight separator for the thickness planer. Haven’t changed a bag in two years!

Based of decades of mistakes and luck, If I had to pick mostly ONE brand (and I obviously don’t) I’d choose Festool for system-integration, convenience, versatility and overall dust collection. It all plenty good and I don’t have to fuss over buying decisions. Just buy it and be done, then get on with the fun.

For BIG NASTY CHIP sucking and other gross jobs too mean for expensive German tools, Ridgid vacs are an awesome value.

No matter what, I’d STILL get that darn Mafell jigsaw. It’s in an entirely different dimension. 

That’s my honest opinion based on real experience. I sincerely hope that helps because I am tired of typing now. ;-)
   
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: arso_bg on November 30, 2015, 04:15 AM
Hi,

Do you know whether the Mafell MT55CC will fit (or can be used with) the Festool CMS module?

Regards
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Throwback7r on November 30, 2015, 07:26 AM
I have ordered from CPO Festool a few times. They were great, I clicked 4-6 times and in a few days stuff showed up. Also, my local dealer knowing what they are talking about is just laughable. The best customer service was from Bob Marino, super nice guy and knew his stuff.

Timberwolf tools website is how shall I say.. not good. So you either call and get to talk to someone or click and pray.

The large issue with me on the Mafell stuff is service, if that 735$ jig saw needs to be repaired or you would like an accessory, off it goes for who knows how long. " Anyone in the US that sent something Mafell for repair please comment."

I use my tools for work and having down time is a huge concern that is why I went Festool for everything.

One more thing, on the Kapex I bought it because of how small it folds down. look at the other systems and you will see something that is MUCH larger and Heavier, and all you have to do is run it up 2 flights of stairs just to see where I am coming from.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Dane on November 30, 2015, 11:23 AM
Great summary, thanks!  Always valuable to hear from an experienced end user.-  I'd be really interested in seeing some details of your cross-cutting rig if you are inclined to share.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Cheese on November 30, 2015, 11:55 AM
@Geo

A very interesting first post and...


 [welcome] to the FOG.

Curious what blade you used to cut the 3/8" stainless sheet?
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Tom Gensmer on November 30, 2015, 12:20 PM
Fantastic first post, and welcome!!

We seem to be set up similarly. All of my routers, planers and sanders are Festool (CMS-OF, OF-1400, MFK-700, RO-150, RO-90, LS-130, EHL-65) whereas, with the exception of my Kapex, I have gone to an all-Mafell saw lineup (Erika 70, MT-55cc, KSS-400, P1cc). I've found it supremely easy to adapt the Mafell tracks to the MFT/3 table using Qwas dogs, if you're into that sort of thing.

Glad to see another tradesman who isn't afraid to embrace the best from multiple manufacturers.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: leakyroof on November 30, 2015, 02:04 PM
A very interesting first post and...


 [welcome] to the FOG.

Curious what blade you used to cut the 3/8" stainless sheet?
  I've worked with Stainless steel as a day job in the past[ 80s]  I'd REALLY like to know this as well........Cold Cutting saw with a liquid feed over the blade, check.  Nice way to do it and no dust
 Abrasive saw with afterwork of getting rid of the burn marks on what you're cutting, also check.  Lots of dust...
 3/8" thick stock cut with small hand held saw????  [eek] [eek] [huh] [huh] [huh]
 Maybe they meant 1/8"..... [embarassed] [embarassed] [embarassed]
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: glass1 on November 30, 2015, 10:38 PM
What a mouthful. In my personal experience. I have not used the mafell  I think the makita is better than the festool.  It's light got a little more power and capacity and it's got the scoring function and bevel rail lock. Blade change is easy enough. It's only weakness is fewer blade options.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Lbob131 on December 02, 2015, 02:24 PM
Hopefully  the Mafell   jigsaw  design will be copied  soon  by other reputable manufacturers  and the cost will be brought down.

Fein  used to  have a monopoly  on the multimaster  but now  the machines    and blades  are made by multiple manufacturers  which has left them a lot cheaper.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: jobsworth on December 02, 2015, 02:30 PM
1st post?????

Gives the phone number of the new dealer in the US?

Me thinks this is more then a unbiased review
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Wuffles on December 02, 2015, 02:58 PM
1st post?????

Gives the phone number of the new dealer in the US?

Me thinks this is more then a unbiased review

Well, there's only one dealer in the US isn't there?
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Holmz on December 02, 2015, 03:54 PM
1st post?????

Gives the phone number of the new dealer in the US?

Me thinks this is more then a unbiased review

Looked pretty unbiased.
It is hard not to be biased towards the tools once you use them.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: teocaf on December 02, 2015, 09:34 PM
Hopefully  the Mafell   jigsaw  design will be copied  soon  by other reputable manufacturers  and the cost will be brought down.

Fein  used to  have a monopoly  on the multimaster  but now  the machines    and blades  are made by multiple manufacturers  which has left them a lot cheaper.

I'm of the opinion that the word "soon" above is just wishful thinking. If Mafell did indeed redesign the jigsaw and won some kind of product of the year in 2011, there are probably some patents that will hold for quite a while.  I'm just speculating--I don't have any inside info.  I have used a Fein Supercut for many years before the 'knockoffs' came to market, and I know of one instance where the cheaper version of another brand is toast while mine is still going strong even after rigorous use.  Not exactly conclusive evidence, but the point I'm trying to make is that if you feel you need a premium tool, try to get it as soon as you're able rather than wasting all that time just waiting around.  After all, the cost of the tool is only one component of its value.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: teocaf on December 02, 2015, 09:49 PM
1st post?????

Gives the phone number of the new dealer in the US?

Me thinks this is more then a unbiased review

Everything is biased in some way or another, but I would give the guy the benefit of the doubt based on what I read in that novel of his.  If anything, he's guilty of sloppy editing; there's a lot of repetition of the same points.  Maybe he has an exuberant nature about these tools (or perhaps some kind of 'forum tourettes'), who knows.  Or maybe he's trying to be the James Joyce or the William Faulkner of the forum world... 
I think that all the info/opinions that he provides have already been stated in similar threads by others.  Except for that claim about the stainless cutting;  I would also like to see if he responds and clarifies that a bit more. @Geo
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Cheese on December 03, 2015, 12:05 AM
@teocaf & @Wuffles

You two characters are my favorite on-line humour.

@leakyroof
I use a Milwaukee 14" 6190-20 cold cut saw to cut stainless bar stock with an Evolution stainless blade that turns at 1500 rpm. The Evolution blade outlasts Milwaukee's stainless blade by a factor of 2:1.

I also use a Milwaukee 8" 6370-21 saw to cut 3/4" thick aluminum at 3700 rpm. I'm still interested in finding out at what speed and with what blade the OP cuts 3/8" stainless. That's a tough row to hoe. [tongue]

 Time's on my side...[popcorn] [popcorn] [popcorn]
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: jobsworth on December 13, 2015, 04:59 AM
Notice the OP hasn't posted anything else.......

I rest my case
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Wuffles on December 13, 2015, 05:07 AM
Notice the OP hasn't posted anything else.......

I rest my case

Probably got banned.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Holmz on December 13, 2015, 05:50 AM
I was using the red tools on the MFT today.
Just like XMAS with the red-n-green.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Peter Halle on December 13, 2015, 06:10 AM
Notice the OP hasn't posted anything else.......

I rest my case

Probably got banned.

Nope on the ban.  Joined on the 29th, spent 5 minutes on the 30th posting in this topic (which would seem to me that it was composed separately and then pasted) and then hasn't spent more time logged in to the forum.

That doesn't mean that he doesn't read the info here; just means that he hasn't logged in.

Peter
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: GhostFist on December 13, 2015, 07:09 AM
It's a conspiracy!
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Wuffles on December 13, 2015, 07:21 AM
It's a conspiracy!

 [scared]
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: jobsworth on December 13, 2015, 01:57 PM
 [2cents]
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Cheese on December 13, 2015, 02:35 PM

Nope on the ban.  Joined on the 29th, spent 5 minutes on the 30th posting in this topic (which would seem to me that it was composed separately and then pasted) and then hasn't spent more time logged in to the forum.

Peter

 5 minutes to post...[jawdrop]...it took me 2 Diet Cokes just to finish reading it.

Off topic...Peter is that a new puppy?
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Peter Halle on December 13, 2015, 03:47 PM
Regarding the avatar, unfortunately no.  That was my baby girl Goldie Hawn who left the earth yesterday after 12 years and so many devoted hours of love and guarding me thru tougher times.  Rather unexpected.  However, on Tuesday night there will hopefully be picts of a new family member.  Mac always loved the camera - maybe ?????? will also.  We thoroughly expected Goldie to help mentor and coach the new pup and it had been in the works for about 6 weeks.

Peter
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Wuffles on December 13, 2015, 05:31 PM
Regarding the avatar, unfortunately no.  That was my baby girl Goldie Hawn who left the earth yesterday after 12 years and so many devoted hours of love and guarding me thru tougher times.  Rather unexpected.  However, on Tuesday night there will hopefully be picts of a new family member.  Mac always loved the camera - maybe ?????? will also.  We thoroughly expected Goldie to help mentor and coach the new pup and it had been in the works for about 6 weeks.

Peter

Sorry to hear that. Genuinely Peter. Great name too.

We're going to have a litter from my Wife's Golden Retriever next year, if I can stomach the stud costs.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Knight Woodworks on December 13, 2015, 05:35 PM
Peter,

Sorry to hear of the loss of Goldie. Hope the new pup brings a smile.

John
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Cheese on December 13, 2015, 05:53 PM
So very sorry to hear that Peter [crying] especially when you're not expecting it. [sad]

Anxious to see the new addition. [big grin]  [thumbs up]
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: jacko9 on December 13, 2015, 08:53 PM
Good post to stimulate discussion but, on a Festool Web Site it's not going to be very popular.

I have a Large Table Saw so as far as ripping solid stock a track saw is not in the equation but, for a track saw to rip sheet goods "only" I like the Mafell MT55cc because of the track connectors and the quality of the Splinter Guard material.  I don't want to mess around with 9' tracks and I need a connector that stays together solidly for multiple cuts.  The Festool Splinter Guard material that I seen at my local Festool dealer looked pretty ragged as far as alignment goes and I'm not a big fan for stick on material.

If I didn't have a shop already set up with Table Saw with a Sliding Table and other tools that are in the Festool System I might be interested in the Total Festool System but I have the shop space to have individual (already purchased) machines.

I might be interested in the Mafell Jig Saw since I'm not totally impressed with my Festool Triton but with a bandsaw I'm not in a hurry to make a replacement decision.

Service and customer support wise, Festool wins hands down in my limited experience (but then again Shane is gone) ;-)

Jack
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: GhostFist on December 13, 2015, 10:18 PM
There are a million factors into what makes a purchase best for YOU.  Your reasons for declaring what's best for YOU, is an opinion. Everyone's criteria is slightly different.  There is no final say but your own.  Both festool and Mafell make excellent products wether you choose between either of them, or something else altogether, is your choice alone. opinions of others might interest you, or differ from yours completely. That's what makes us individuals. What unites us on websites like the FOG or MUF, ultimately, is making stuff out of wood. Just keep building, there is no conspiracy.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Holmz on December 14, 2015, 12:57 AM
There are a million factors into what makes a purchase best for YOU.  Your reasons for declaring what's best for YOU, is an opinion...
....

Actually the reasoning and the reasons are the most useful part.

It is like reading "I bought a corvette because it accelerates the best."
Or
"I bought the corvette because it stops the best"

Both or neither may be true, but as an example they're completely different justifications that form the reason of what is important.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Alex on December 14, 2015, 02:56 AM
Good post to stimulate discussion but, on a Festool Web Site it's not going to be very popular.

I don't know, most people here are pretty nuts about Mafell too. And the OP wrote a big piece, but there's not really anything surprising in it, because Mafell vs Festool has been spoken of a lot here already.

What baffles me a bit is that the OP spent a lot of time to write that essay and then doesn't even bother to follow up for one second. Why invest 2 or 3 hours of your time to get all that together and then move on without looking back?
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: jobsworth on December 14, 2015, 07:21 AM
Oh maybe cuz he was pimping his store trying to drum up business.

Happens all the time
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: GhostFist on December 14, 2015, 10:19 AM
There's only one store that sells mafell in all of North America so I doubt they need to drum up business.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Wuffles on December 14, 2015, 11:17 AM
1st post?????

Gives the phone number of the new dealer in the US?

Me thinks this is more then a unbiased review

Well, there's only one dealer in the US isn't there?

There's only one store that sells mafell in all of North America so I doubt they need to drum up business.

Yep, I agree(d) with that.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: charley1968 on December 14, 2015, 12:54 PM
I don't get the 'vs.' part. I know what it means, but i see it more like 'and'..
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: jobsworth on December 14, 2015, 03:56 PM
There's only one store that sells mafell in all of North America so I doubt they need to drum up business.

simple its called face time, he's getting free advertisement by letting the consumers of his competition know.

No worries, you guys can buy the "review" if ya want, I don't. A one post wonder who's out of no where and disappears after writing war and peace with out even commenting of the conversation in the thread he started?

I just didn't just get off the Calais ferry....
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Holmz on December 14, 2015, 04:09 PM
There's only one store that sells mafell in all of North America so I doubt they need to drum up business.

simple its called face time, he's getting free advertisement by letting the consumers of his competition know.

No worries, you guys can buy the "review" if ya want, I don't. A one post wonder who's out of no where and disappears after writing war and peace with out even commenting of the conversation in the thread he started?

I just didn't just get off the Calais ferry....

We can speculate all we want as to the reason, but as @charley1968 said "And" seems a better connector in the sentence.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Wuffles on December 14, 2015, 04:21 PM
Wouldn't a Mafell dealer know how to spell Mafell?
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: GhostFist on December 14, 2015, 06:17 PM
Ha!
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: GhostFist on December 14, 2015, 06:18 PM
https://youtu.be/GRWbIoIR04c
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: charley1968 on December 14, 2015, 07:41 PM
Mafelluminati??
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: jobsworth on December 15, 2015, 02:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzs-OvfG8tE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzs-OvfG8tE)
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: green fever on December 23, 2015, 08:58 AM
Wow , can you show Vader using the force on an mft3 ? I believe he may have used yours !!
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: jobsworth on December 23, 2015, 11:13 AM
Mines lookalike the death start after Luke got done with it
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: leakyroof on December 26, 2015, 03:12 PM
There's only one store that sells mafell in all of North America so I doubt they need to drum up business.

simple its called face time, he's getting free advertisement by letting the consumers of his competition know.

No worries, you guys can buy the "review" if ya want, I don't. A one post wonder who's out of no where and disappears after writing war and peace with out even commenting of the conversation in the thread he started?

I just didn't just get off the Calais ferry....
. Who knows, he might have a nice deal on an English Channel Tunnel to sell you.....
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: jobsworth on December 27, 2015, 04:02 AM
I was going to swap the Brooklyn bridge for a tunnel
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Coliban on December 27, 2015, 11:41 AM
I had not a lot experience with all those Festool and Mafell tools, but i bought the Mafell P1cc for my lumber yards and i must say that i can second the statement of the OP. The P1cc is the most sturdy, accurate, strong and handy jigsaw i´ve ever used and i cut 9cm beams like butter.
(That was the reason i´ve purchased the MT55cc, but didnt used it until now). And i think the OP is also right on this, as long as it comes to system integration, the best i know for that is festool.

Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: yetihunter on December 30, 2015, 06:03 AM
Yo, ghostfist, is this true about Timberwolf being in Chicago?
I don't have a need nor the finances for Mafell and the Timber Framing equipment they carry; but I can dream.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: GhostFist on December 30, 2015, 10:01 AM
As I understand, timberwolf has just opened a distribution center in Chicago. Don't take that as a plug for them or to say anything against them either. I have no formal connection to any distributor or manufacturer and only care if people are happy with what ever equipment they choose.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: yetihunter on January 22, 2016, 11:54 AM
No worries, I only take it as more fuel to convince a friend to buy some saws so that I can play with them.   ;D [big grin]

That said, I can't even convince people to move away from sanding drywall compound by hand, let alone buy a Flex or a Festool.  :0
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: GhostFist on January 22, 2016, 12:21 PM
There carpentry/construction industry is stubborn, to say the least.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: yetihunter on January 22, 2016, 02:23 PM
Not to mention, they all look this:

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: leakyroof on January 22, 2016, 03:13 PM
Not to mention, they all look this:

(Attachment Link)
  Okay, DITKA with a hand sander versus 10 guys with Festool sanders.... Da Bears..... [poke] [poke] [poke] [poke] [bite tongue] [bite tongue]
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Brice Burrell on January 22, 2016, 03:27 PM
Not to mention, they all look this:

(Attachment Link)

Careful, Gary Katz resembles that remake. [tongue] [big grin]
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Mr Jones on January 23, 2016, 10:16 AM
Thought I would weigh in on this subject. I've has the TS55 for 10 years and Mafell 55 for 5yrs. The Mafell is the better tool by a small margin. I normally keep the TS55 in the CMS, this was part of the reasoning for buying the Mafell as it's a fuss getting the TS in and out of the CMS.

I would buy either of them again and they both work well enough for professional use but as I've already said, the Mafell is better by a small margin. I use the Mafell on a range of Festool tracks with no problem. The one Mafell track I have does seem better made and nicer to handle, the mitre arrangement works better than the old style track mitre arrangement that I have for the festool tracks, and better than the old style MFT mitre which was a pain to set up properly.

It's possible the recent Festool tools have caught up in terms of mitre setting etc. My experience is with the earlier TS55.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: jacko9 on January 24, 2016, 08:39 PM
I have the Mafell for several months but, since I have a table saw the only use I get out of it is to break down sheet goods.  So no matter if it's a Festool or Mafell track saw they only have limited use if you have a very good cabinet table saw with sliding table.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: charley1968 on January 25, 2016, 09:30 AM
..if..
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: jacko9 on January 25, 2016, 07:47 PM
..if..
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Chinski on April 26, 2019, 02:24 AM
Not sure I’d agree with OP that you will never get kickback cutting ply as long as your track is clean. I’ve certainly experienced this with the 55 and 75.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Jiggy Joiner on April 26, 2019, 05:13 AM
I’ve mentioned in other threads, I have three plunge saws, the TS55, the Mafell MT55 and the Makita 601 cordless bluetooth.

Just an opinion now etc, the Festool and Mafell are corded and the Makita cordless.
My personal favourite is the Makita, I don’t know the exact reason why? Maybe as it has it’s own cordless bluetooth extractor that I’ve dedicated to it, or the smooth cut, or the power, I just don’t know?

There is certainly nothing wrong with the TS55 or MT55, and the Makita isn’t perfect, it just suits me.

The Mafell in all honesty is again in my opinion the best designed, it has some nice touches like the bevel locking for example. Instead of a lock nut front and rear, it only has the front, there is no rear, instead a metal cable runs through the casing, so when you operate the lock lever, it tensions the cable locking the saw solid on the bevel. The blade change and dust extraction system is the best I’ve seen on a plunge saw. It has a little guide that shows the actual cut line etc, lots of nice little touches, and very well made like you’d expect. It is a really nice saw but, the Makita is still my go to plunge saw.

I think if I ever buy another plunge saw in this size, I would seriously consider the cordless Mafell as I have heard such great things about them, and if the my MT55 was cordless, I think I would use it more. I think the cordless is basically the same as the corded design wise though. Apparently Mafell have now agreed a battery platform standard, meaning there are I think, eight German manufacturers using the same battery platform?
I saw a kitchen fitter using the cordless version a couple of weeks ago, apparently he’s owned it from when it was released, and drools over it every time he uses it.

My comparison probably isn’t fair, as I’m comparing cordless and corded tools, as we are trying to port over to cordless for the majority of our mobile/site tools. I do love the freedom of cordless though, and it solves the ongoing 110 volt v 240 volt grey areas on many commercial sites over here.
I know even with cordless you still need a hose for DC but, that Makita and extractor is compact, lightweight and can be plonked down just about anywhere. The drawbacks are only really batteries but, we have plenty of those.

I see a fair bit of Mafell being used, and many prefer it to Festool but the price tags like Festool are high, probably more so than Festool in most of the tools.

The MT55 is the only Mafell tool I own but, I have hankered after an Erika 85E for a long time ow, and if it weren’t for other recent outlay, I would have bought one. At the moment I’m looking at either the Erika or the Festool CS70, the 85mm depth of cut is the draw though.

So for me, Mafell is very nice and without doubt superb quality, not the be all and end all though.
They don’t make a Domino type machine for a start  ;)
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Chinski on April 27, 2019, 04:12 AM
 So, following up on the dust extraction question here…

I’m told that when my festool  ts55 kicks out dust at the end of a cut, that this is purely physics because of the direction the blade is spinning in and the fact that there is nothing in front of the stock to catch the dust when the blade exits the wood at the end of the cut.

But on the videos I have seen of the mafell,  there does not seem to be a similar plume of dust emerging at the end of the cuts. Is this a function of poor video quality (?!) or is the mafell in fact doing something different and better – therefore reducing that final dust plume?
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Jiggy Joiner on April 27, 2019, 05:02 AM
As I said in my previous post, and just in my opinion, the Mafell is the best designed plunge saw out there at the moment, this includes the dust extraction.
It has a fully enclosed side plate, with a gasket, that seals the whole side off to aid extraction, and it works really well.
It also exposes the whole of the blade when opened for easy blade change.
My Makita has a piece of duct tape on the side plate to help with extraction, which also works well.
Not in the Mafell class though, or price range  ;)
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: six-point socket II on April 27, 2019, 05:23 AM
Hi!

Take a look here, FF to 13:05 or more clear, FF to 16:15 -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUpnfhd3ekg

The MT55cc spills at the end of the cut, too.



Kind regards,
Oliver
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Jiggy Joiner on April 27, 2019, 08:49 AM
I think the spill at the end of the cut, is where the waste piece falls away, sort of like the shield being removed. I think this would happen with any plunge saw regardless of design.
There is certainly minimal dust during cutting, when the saw is travelling along the rail.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: six-point socket II on April 27, 2019, 09:02 AM
I think the spill at the end of the cut, is where the waste piece falls away, sort of like the shield being removed. I think this would happen with any plunge saw regardless of design.
There is certainly minimal dust during cutting, when the saw is travelling along the rail.

Yes.

Sometimes I really can't help but wonder.

@Chinski opened a thread here: http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/oh-i'm-so-disappointed-ts55-and-dust-'(-advice/msg576828/#msg576828 because he's being disappointed with exactly this spill when using his TS 55.

You replied to that thread btw.

Now this post follows.

So, following up on the dust extraction question here…

I’m told that when my festool  ts55 kicks out dust at the end of a cut, that this is purely physics because of the direction the blade is spinning in and the fact that there is nothing in front of the stock to catch the dust when the blade exits the wood at the end of the cut.

But on the videos I have seen of the mafell,  there does not seem to be a similar plume of dust emerging at the end of the cuts. Is this a function of poor video quality (?!) or is the mafell in fact doing something different and better – therefore reducing that final dust plume?

Your reply:

As I said in my previous post, and just in my opinion, the Mafell is the best designed plunge saw out there at the moment, this includes the dust extraction.
It has a fully enclosed side plate, with a gasket, that seals the whole side off to aid extraction, and it works really well.
It also exposes the whole of the blade when opened for easy blade change.
My Makita has a piece of duct tape on the side plate to help with extraction, which also works well.
Not in the Mafell class though, or price range  ;)

Then I posted the video - to show exactly that the Mafell will lead to another disappointment for @Chinski because it spills at the end of cut just as any other plunge saw does.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Jiggy Joiner on April 27, 2019, 12:05 PM
Not sure what point you’re making Oliver, perhaps I’m missing something?
Btw, I haven’t watched the video, I’m assuming we’re talking about the dust expelled at the beginning and ending of a cut?
I am saying that I am happy with all of my plunge saws, including dust collection, and in my opinion the Mafell is the best designed, including dust collection but, the Makita is still my favourite plunge saw.

The amount of dust being expelled at the end of a cut, will probably differ, depending on the material being cut and it’s thickness, and motor speed and blade type.
I can’t give a scientific explanation or formula, I’d imagine it’s impossible not to get some dust at the end of a cut, unless the whole underside is enclosed but, then where would the blade protrude from?

It’s certainly not a problem or concern to me, I accept that in carpentry, joinery and woodwork, that I am going to see sawdust still, no matter how good and efficient machines have become nowadays. Obviously I would prefer to see as little as possible.
Expecting no sawdust in woodworking, is a little like a mechanic not expecting to see grease or oil occasionally?

I might actually carry out a full experiment at some stage but, from what I’ve seen the Mafell has the best dust collection.

Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Jiggy Joiner on April 27, 2019, 12:09 PM
Oliver, are you and Chinski expecting no dust at all from the TS55 and MT55 whilst cutting?
If so, I’m not sure a saw of such capability exists?
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: six-point socket II on April 27, 2019, 12:15 PM
Not sure what point you’re making Oliver, perhaps I’m missing something?
(...)

I’d imagine it’s impossible not to get some dust at the end of a cut, unless the whole underside is enclosed but, then where would the blade protrude from?

(...)

This is exactly the point I tried to make. Trying to save @Chinski from another disappointment - as this happens with every plunge saw.

And like you, I expect some dust, oil, grease, (...) - but obviously some people are intrigued by the "no dust" claims and shocked when they find out it's only  98 or 99%.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: six-point socket II on April 27, 2019, 12:20 PM
Oliver, are you and Chinski expecting no dust at all from the TS55 and MT55 whilst cutting?
If so, I’m not sure a saw of such capability exists?

I obviously can't speak for Chinski, but from his thread I get the feeling he expected way less dust.

I on the other hand, I don't care one bit about that spillage at the end of a cut. I'm entirely happy with my Festool tools, the way they operate and dust is extracted. But I might be a rare bird, a very tired rare bird at that.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Jiggy Joiner on April 27, 2019, 12:46 PM
Not sure what point you’re making Oliver, perhaps I’m missing something?
(...)

I’d imagine it’s impossible not to get some dust at the end of a cut, unless the whole underside is enclosed but, then where would the blade protrude from?

(...)

This is exactly the point I tried to make. Trying to save @Chinski from another disappointment - as this happens with every plunge saw.

And like you, I expect some dust, oil, grease, (...) - but obviously some people are intrigued by the "no dust" claims and shocked when they find out it's only  98 or 99%.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Ah ok, fair enough Oliver, I’m also very tired having only four hours sleep last night, so I might of missed a few points as a consequence.
Like yourself, some dust doesn’t worry me, although I would prefer the minimum. I recently bought a Kapex 120 and initially wasn’t overwhelmed by the dust extraction, although I have greatly remedied it now, it wasn’t a deal breaker by any means though.

I can’t find any issues or niggles with any of my plunge saws but, I think it’s afair comment to say the Mafell is the best in design. I’m sure on proper inspection and comparison others would agree. Even so, it’s still not my favourite.

Anyway, not sure about you but, I need a nap!  [big grin] ;)
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: duburban on April 27, 2019, 10:56 PM
Can someone give me the cliff notes on the OP ?
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Lbob131 on May 12, 2019, 08:43 AM
The Mafell plunge saw doesn't have  a horizontal grip handle.
So for me, an inferior saw  when compared to my  ts55.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Jiggy Joiner on May 12, 2019, 04:43 PM
The Mafell plunge saw doesn't have  a horizontal grip handle.
So for me, an inferior saw  when compared to my  ts55.

I can assure you, there’s nothing inferior about the MT55, it might not be to your taste but, the Mafell is almost certainly the best designed plunge saw out there.
I still prefer the cordless Makita though, that has a horizontal handle but, I never use it.
Each to their own  ;)
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Michael Kellough on May 12, 2019, 05:13 PM
The Mafell plunge saw doesn't have  a horizontal grip handle.
So for me, an inferior saw  when compared to my  ts55.

I can assure you, there’s nothing inferior about the MT55, it might not be to your taste but, the Mafell is almost certainly the best designed plunge saw out there.
I still prefer the cordless Makita though, that has a horizontal handle but, I never use it.
Each to their own  ;)

Which one is that?
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Jiggy Joiner on May 13, 2019, 02:23 AM
Hi Michael, this is the one I have:

https://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/Makita-Dsp601Zju-0088381851718-Twin-18V-Brushless-Plunge-Saw-Lxt
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits on June 29, 2019, 02:53 PM
The Mafell plunge saw doesn't have  a horizontal grip handle.
So for me, an inferior saw  when compared to my  ts55.

I also have the Mafell MT55cc (the cordless) and have used Festool for many years. The handle is nice to have at times but not a deal breaker. I have the Bosch GKT 55 CE which is a similar saw to the Mafell and it has the handle. I use it primarily to cut Staron and Corian and the handle is nice to have for those types of material and for finicky plunging. The track system (FSN) from Bosch is superior I think, especially when having to link up a few rails. I have only heard positive things about the Makita. Personally I prefer single battery saws but if I were more invested in Makita I think I would have gone for their dual battery track saw.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Jiggy Joiner on June 29, 2019, 03:05 PM
Been using my Mafell all week, it’s a great saw, anybody that owns one will know.
I did miss the Makita though.
I’m seriously considering moving on the TS55 and possibly the MT55, and getting the cordless Mafell. I think my Makita being cordless, is part of the reason it’s my favourite.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits on June 29, 2019, 03:18 PM
That could be the case. I am totally loving the Mafell MT55 cordless. I use it for the same type of stuff I use the MT55cc and would not consider switching back to corded. I run the Festool CTL M with BT switch on the hose end and I am very happy with that solution.

Most of all I am happy to be back in the FSN rail system. The Bosch and Mafell runs on both rail systems so I could have kept some Festool rails.  You could keep your Makita rails though part of the lure of the Mafell is the Bosch rails.

If you don't mind the two separate systems and dual battery approach you might have one of the best battery track saws in the Makita already though. :)
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Jiggy Joiner on June 29, 2019, 03:23 PM
Personally, I think the Mafell plunge saws are the best out there, the thing is, I just gel with the Makita.
Maybe a cordless Mafell could be my new best friend though?
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Kodi Crescent on July 01, 2019, 07:45 PM
My MT55 makes my TS55 look filthy in the dust collection department.  Track joining is SO easy.  The angle jig thing works pretty well.  No more double stick tape guides coming off, no more multiple lengths of rails, etc. 

I'll save the TS55 for cement board cuts and to use as a standard circular saw.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Henrik R / Pingvinlakrits on July 02, 2019, 04:56 PM
Personally, I think the Mafell plunge saws are the best out there, the thing is, I just gel with the Makita.
Maybe a cordless Mafell could be my new best friend though?

If you have Metabo/Mafell batteries to spare you would not regret it. If you are neck deep in Makita batteries you can't really go that much wrong with the Makita. It seems like a genuine work horse.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Jiggy Joiner on July 02, 2019, 05:23 PM
I bought a TS55 and very soon after, decided to go with what was probably my first choice the Mafell MT55. The TS55 hasn’t really seen much action since, and is like new. I might sell it but, it’s well out of warranty now, and might serve better as a spare.

Then because we have ported over almost completely to cordless for site and mobile work, and have an obscene amount of Makita batteries, we went for the cordless bluetooth saw and extractor. No regrets and I love it but, that may be because it’s cordless, the other two saw are not.

I’ve always held Mafell in high regard despite not owning hardly any of their tools but, I think if I went with a cordless Mafell it would either be a new favourite which is highly likely, or it could be a costly wrong decision.
The truth is, I don’t currently need another plunge saw of any type but, I remember saying similar about mitre saws and went on to buy a Kapex 120. That was certainly needed though.

I’m currently wrestling with myself regarding a much more expensive Maffel tool though  ;)
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: blaszcsj on July 02, 2019, 09:28 PM
On the rails. I really want to buy the new metabo rails that join. Anybody know where to get them in the USA?
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Euclid on July 03, 2019, 07:56 AM
I’m currently wrestling with myself regarding a much more expensive Maffel tool though  ;)

Such as... an Erika, maybe?
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Jiggy Joiner on July 03, 2019, 04:31 PM
I’m currently wrestling with myself regarding a much more expensive Maffel tool though  ;)

Such as... an Erika, maybe?

Indeed  ;)
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: HowardH on July 06, 2019, 02:57 AM
I'm in Munich at the moment and went to a Mafell/Festool dealer here while the wife and kiddo were doing something else.  I was hoping to see an Erika in person but they didn't have one set up at the time.  The sales guy told me it is much, much more robust than the Festool equivalent.  I did get to hold the DD40P and the DDF40. I see one in my future, no matter if I need it or not.  I'll figure something out to build just to use it.   
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Jiggy Joiner on July 06, 2019, 05:50 PM
Yes, I mean no disrespect to Festool but, the Erika 85e is the king of mobile table saws, and currently by a fair margin.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Kodi Crescent on July 12, 2019, 12:28 PM
The MT55 (track saw) and P1CC (jigsaw) at Timberwolf are at the lowest price I've seen them short of eBay. 
Substantially lower than what I paid for them less than a year ago.  [sad] [mad] [crying]  That figures. 
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: PeterJJames13 on July 12, 2019, 12:54 PM
The MT55 (track saw) and P1CC (jigsaw) at Timberwolf are at the lowest price I've seen them short of eBay. 
Substantially lower than what I paid for them less than a year ago.  [sad] [mad] [crying]  That figures.

Me too lol. But that duo doweler price looks really attractive....
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Kodi Crescent on July 12, 2019, 12:59 PM
This is a special Mafell sale that runs until the end of September.  The DD40F is now in 120v and also on sale.  If you've purchased a tool from them since January it may be worth giving them a call.  It was for me. 

I'll be adding the DD40F soon, and possibly the hole drilling extensions.





Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: JimH2 on July 12, 2019, 01:08 PM
Can't go wrong with the DuoDoweler. Joinery and way simpler shelf pin holes as an added bonus. Everyone has their favorites and this is mine.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: RustE on July 12, 2019, 01:10 PM
Can't go wrong with the DuoDoweler. Joinery and way simpler shelf pin holes as an added bonus. Everyone has their favorites and this is mine.

Curious, why the DuoDoweler over the Domino?
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: JimH2 on July 12, 2019, 01:45 PM
It's different to use and with the metal spacing track they sell it makes putting dowels anywhere without much thought. It is not better than the Domino, just different. I originally had a Domino and then bought the DuoDoweler for shelf pins. Ended up selling it after using the doweling functionality.

I have a few of the Mafell tools with the Multi-Cutter MF 26 cc being the most unique tool. I bought it for Dadoing.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: DeformedTree on July 12, 2019, 04:43 PM
I didn't give much of any thought to the dual doweller till a different thread where it was mentioned it has a 32mm spacing and is setup to do 32mm cabinets.  That changed everything for me and why I now intend to get one.  I had planned on a domino, and maybe still will some day.  But the DD being able to do 32mm stuff changed everything.  Why Mafell doesn't make things blatantly clear in their info blows my mind.  If it was called DDF32 then there would at least be a clue.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Jiggy Joiner on July 12, 2019, 05:08 PM
The Lamello Zeta P2 is another different way of joining, the price isn’t for the faint hearted though.
They’re all pretty good but, as the Domino is the closest to mortise and tenon joinery, it’s my personal favourite.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: ScotF on July 12, 2019, 07:05 PM
I was excited to see the special pricing...the jigsaw is less than what I paid for mine several years ago...the accessories are still normal price, though...
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: HowardH on July 12, 2019, 10:30 PM
This is a special Mafell sale that runs until the end of September.  The DD40F is now in 120v and also on sale.  If you've purchased a tool from them since January it may be worth giving them a call.  It was for me. 

I'll be adding the DD40F soon, and possibly the hole drilling extensions.

aw man... you would have to point that sale out to me.  Oh well, it's only money! 
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Euclid on July 13, 2019, 04:58 AM
I have a few of the Mafell tools with the Multi-Cutter MF 26 cc being the most unique tool. I bought it for Dadoing.

I'd never come across that tool before; what an interesting machine.
Makes me think of all sorts of projects I've never have considered before. The price is a bit high for 'non-trade' use; though if I was doing a complete fit-out or renovation of a propery-and-workshop (which I'd like to do one day) it might make sense.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: yetihunter on September 05, 2019, 02:29 PM
Can't go wrong with the DuoDoweler. Joinery and way simpler shelf pin holes as an added bonus. Everyone has their favorites and this is mine.

Curious, why the DuoDoweler over the Domino?

Not over: along with.  But I too preferred working with the DuoDoweler over the others when I had it.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Sanderxpander on September 09, 2019, 09:35 AM
With all the gushing over how much stronger a domino is over a regular dowel, what are your experiences?
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: Michael Kellough on September 09, 2019, 09:53 AM
In my estimation, one 6mm Domino is equal in strength to two 8mm dowels when used in hardwood. If used in particleboard the strength of the tenon isn’t the concern. I think the particleboard joint would be more durable with dowels since a pair of dowels have four spaced shoulders.
Title: Re: Mafelll vs Festool ( and others!)
Post by: JimH2 on October 02, 2019, 01:39 PM
With all the gushing over how much stronger a domino is over a regular dowel, what are your experiences?

I believe someone did a scientific test of biscuits, dowels and Domino's. There is a point at which the strength of the joint does not matter.