Author Topic: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex  (Read 51438 times)

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Offline SRSemenza

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LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« on: October 12, 2007, 11:55 AM »
Hi,

      I purchased this sander a few weeks ago. I have used it for several sanding portions on a shelf unit job. The job was for five separate units , and large enough give this sander a realistic test and learn quite a bit about it. I took pics , and notes, so I would remember for this review. So here it is in no particular order.

      My overall comments are-  The sander is comfortable to hold.

                                           Three or four profiles will fit in the systainer.

                                           DC is real good , but not as complete as on my ROS.

                                           It is not an aggressive sander.

                                           I found it jumpy and hard to control on speeds 1-3. Not from too much vac.

                                           In the following posts you will see that the LS does well with odd ball sanding jobs.
                         
                                           To get similar results to the grit you would use on a ROS I found the following.  For material  removal  use a grit or two coarser  for finish quality use two or three grits finer. EX - material removal the same as 150gr on ROS = about 100gr on Duplex. Finish quality of 150gr on ROS = about 180 - 240gr on Duplex. Also  it does a better job by not skipping grits. For example I routinely skip 120, going from 100 straight to 150 with my ROS, with no noticable difference in time or finish. The LS 130 does better when you don't skip. But each pass is real quick. I find that it takes 320 before the scratch pattern really starts to disappear, at least on flat surfaces.
                                       
                I have noticed that once the scratches of the grit you are using start to show up (which doesn't take long) switching to the next grit right away speeds the process. Continued use of the same grit does not take the material down as fast as swapping out right away. I think this is because the sander  / abrasive sheet is running in the same "grooves".  This effect is much more noticable with a really coarse grit such as P60 Cristal.

                                           It takes a little getting used to because of the way it operates (the linear motion). You have to get used to applying even pressure at the center of the pad. If you apply more force to the front or back it tends to move itself ahead or want to hold itself in place. I am not talking about really pushing down but you need to apply enough force to keep it on the work piece. I do find that unlike an ROS a LITTLE down force helps keep it controlled and doing its job.

           You will see below a series of four pics showing the best way I found to get the paper to tightly conform to the profile. Start at one long edge of the pad and roll it into or onto the profile.



             My first use of this, and what had  inspired the purchase was on 3/4" wide flat edges. I had a lot of that to sand on this job.  After doing some of this I  was not really impressed and even was considering taking it back.  After going through the job and discovering its usefulness, I will be keeping it. However the first thing I will note is that I do not like it much for flat edges down to 3/4" wide. I find that it is somewhat  slow at this and you have to go to quite a fine grit on bare wood (like 320 or 400) before the scratch pattern really starts to disapear.  For edge's I prefer my ETS 150/5 ( /3 )- I use the hard pad, sander speed on 4 , and CT set to about 3/4 power. That set up works well, is fast and I don't have any edge rounding trouble.
             I also used it for a lot of 3/8" round over sanding. The 6mm radius pad fit this well. This is wear it starts to shine. You end up with even smooth round overs. They just plane look better than doing it by hand or any other method I have tried. And it does a tremendous job of removing router  bit marks. I think it excells at this because it sands perpendicular to most marked that are left by a router bit. Thus wiping them out quickly.
            I tried the 90 degree / rebate pad a little. I think for the right application this will work well too. I just didn't have much use for it on this job.
            I used it to ease the edges of everything that needed it on the job. It is great for that task. Very controlled, and no worries about going to deep or getting flat spots. The flat pad does this well, but in you will see a pic showing how I used the 6mm radius to do both edges at once on some parts. Just straddle the edge with it.
            I used it to do final shaping of rounded corners.  It is really good at this! I chopped off the corner at 45 degrees then used the LS to sand to my pencil line. Made very even corners. Well controlled and quick.
            On the sides of these shelf units is a visual relief / lip about 1/16" were the front solid wood edging meets the plywood. There is a pic showing the lip, another showing an ROS and the danger it poses to slicing under the plywood veneer. And then the LS in the same position sanding linearally to the lip. It did a great job of this and didn't damage the plywood edge at all.
           Also is included a pic showing the flat pad in use on an attached piece of wood about 1" wide. With the sander pad tight against a perpendicular surface. The Duplex performs very well for this situation. No damage to the other piece that it was running against.
           Overall I like this sander a lot. But not exactly for everything I though I would. It does what it is really made for better than anything else. And thats what counts. I would be happy to answer any questions about the LS if  I can.

    Seth


srs

 UPDATE #1     As someone else on the FOG suggested. I tried using a couple of the LS profile pads for a little hand sanding today. They work great for this!

           
           
« Last Edit: May 08, 2008, 01:13 AM by semenza »

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Offline Forrest Anderson

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2007, 06:31 PM »
I purchased this sander a few weeks ago. I have used it for several sanding portions on a shelf unit job. The job was for five seperate units , and large enough give this sander a realistic test and learn quite a bit about it. I took pics , and notes, so I would remember for this review. So here it is in no particular order...

Seth

Many thanks for taking the time and trouble to review the LS130! It's one of the Festools that is of particular interest to me, and your thoughts are very much appreciated.  :D

Forrest

Compiler of the Consolidated List of Festool Links - the place to go for Festool reviews, manuals, brochures and videos!

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2007, 11:20 PM »
Hi,

  Just a brief update. Someone else on the FOG suggested using the LS profile pads  for hand sanding. Sorry I can't find the post now in order to give credit.  Any way I tried it today and it works great!


Seth
« Last Edit: February 21, 2008, 10:41 AM by semenza »

Offline Eli

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2007, 05:02 AM »
That should have gone in the "You know you're a junkie when" thread under the 'most expensive sanding block evah'
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Offline woodgeek

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2007, 09:26 AM »
gee, thanks alot semenza, I almost had myself talked out of buying the LS130...

I'm thinking of getting it primarily for sanding roundovers which was my thought as to one of it's primary uses.  Thanks for confirming this.

thanks also on the recommendation for the sandpaper -- this is always difficult to determine when buying...

Carl

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Offline SRSemenza

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2007, 09:45 AM »
gee, thanks alot semenza, I almost had myself talked out of buying the LS130...

I'm thinking of getting it primarily for sanding roundovers which was my thought as to one of it's primary uses.  Thanks for confirming this.

thanks also on the recommendation for the sandpaper -- this is always difficult to determine when buying...

Carl




       Just doing my part to drag you a little further down the slope! I don't want to be down near the bottom all by myself ;D


Seth

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2007, 10:08 AM »
Hi,

   A little more on the abrasive selection that I forgot to put in the review (it has been added now).  It does a better job by not skipping grits. For example I routinely skip 120, going from 100 straight to 150 with my ROS, with no noticable differance in time or finish. The LS 130 does better when you don't skip. But each pass is real quick.  I also changed the finish quality comparison of ROS 150, from 220- 320, to 180-240. I think this is more realistic on finish quality. But I still find that it takes 320 before the scratch pattern really starts to disappear, at least on flat surfaces.

Seth
« Last Edit: February 21, 2008, 10:41 AM by semenza »

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2007, 01:01 AM »
HI,
     Updated with pics showing the offcial labels in place :)


Hi,

    I thought it would be good to add this in to the LS 130 review. Below are pics of my pad/abrasive systainer for the LS130. I got the idea from Ned Young.  We both used a Systainer  - II. His has the real Tanos deviders (NAINA).  But otherwise basically the same.
     

        I was interested in the systainer for 80 x 130 sheets also  But it only has six compartments. I wanted room for possibly more grits and also the pads for the LS130 Sander.    I made the deviders from 1/4" plywood. They are strips with slots cut just past the halfway point so that they will slip together when reversed to each other. I went with 16 evenly sized compartments. I did not make them adjustable they are glued together in the slots so that there is no wiggling around or coming apart. I really didn't think I would need to adjust them anyway.

       The sizes for the plywood pieces are-    All are 4 1/2" tall

                                                             1    15 1/8"
                                                             2    14 15/16"
                                                             1    10 7/16"
                                                             2    10  11/16"

                         The lengths may vary depending on exactly were you want to place divisions in the systainer.

Seth
 
« Last Edit: February 21, 2008, 10:42 AM by semenza »

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2007, 01:07 AM »
Hi,

   Another little update. I would have put this in the main review but I can't add anymore pics to it.  I found the LS 130 to be handy for sanding to a scribe line on this curved piece.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2008, 10:43 AM by semenza »

Offline Dave Ronyak

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2007, 01:49 PM »
Seth,

Thanks for an excellent review and demonstration of some uses of an LS 130.  I also find the LS 130 very useful for "creeping up" to a fiinished dimension when needed with minimal risk of sanding through veneer, and for sanding the cut edges of plywood.  I'm reluctant to use my RO 125 on those edges because sometimes it will tear the face veneers or layers just beneath the face if there is a void or weak glue area, and formerly used a belt sander for this kink of work.  The LS 130 with ~100 grit on the basic flat pad makes fairly quick work of cleaning up of the hoary edges of plywood that has been sawn, routed or jointed without any risk of such damage, and a slight radius can easily be added to those cut edges if wanted.

Dave R.
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Offline woodgeek

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2007, 04:01 PM »
ok, I need some help here...

I've had my LS130 for almost a month now, and honestly I'm unimpressed.  I'm building a platform bed and there's alot of board sides and 1/4" roundovers to sand.  I figured this would be a good test.  However, I've found that the performance was really lacking.  Basically even with 80g paper, I don't get anywhere near the results I'm looking for.  I find it faster and easier to use a sanding block or rubber profiles to do the same thing.

I'm getting the sense that this is really more of a fine sander than one to use for rough sanding.  I'm not necessarily opposed to having a fine sander, I just had hoped to be able to use this for initial sanding of profiles and tight spaces.

Are those of you that are using it finding the same - i.e. you have to do initial sanding my hand or with another tool and then use the LS130 for the finer grit sanding?

I've got 2 more days in my 30day money back period and I'm thinking about sending it back.  I realize it may be a great tool for certain infrequent tasks but maybe I'd be better served spending the money on something I'd use more often...

thanks for any thoughts!

Carl

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Offline Forrest Anderson

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2007, 05:07 PM »
I'm getting the sense that this is really more of a fine sander than one to use for rough sanding.  I'm not necessarily opposed to having a fine sander, I just had hoped to be able to use this for initial sanding of profiles and tight spaces.

I've recently updated the Consolidated List of Festool Links and one of the items I added was a PDF document from the Festool USA website which was a flow chart showing how to choose the right sander.

This flowchart suggests using the LS-130 for fine sanding, and makes other recommendations for coarser surfaces.

Forrest

Compiler of the Consolidated List of Festool Links - the place to go for Festool reviews, manuals, brochures and videos!

Offline woodgeek

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2007, 05:30 PM »
thanks Forrest, that really helps!

Carl
no matter where you go, there you are...

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2007, 10:22 PM »
Hi,

    There is no doubt that it is not an aggresive, fast sander.  But unless it is being used to remove a finish ( I have not tried this yet) I don't think it needs to be aggresive. It seems to me that most profile and edge sanding would be fine sanding. When I have used the LS130 for round over sanding it seems to get the job done quickly. At least when I have a lot of it to do. I would say that for just a few feet of profile sanding it would be quicker by hand.  I have found that the LS 130 has plenty of power and that pressing down a little more than normal  :-X helps it do the job. Also it does the job faster by not skipping grits.
        Hope that helps. If it is not what you need then send it back. Alternatively you could use it a little longer and still be able to sell for nearly what you paid. :)


Seth

Offline Dave Ronyak

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2007, 10:33 PM »
My initial reason for purchasing an LS 130 was to sand the baseboard in a large room from which the carpet had been removed but the tack strips were not.  Nasty, dangerous sharp tacks!  I, too, was not very impressed with its function in this attempted application because I kept snagging the pad on those tacks, and the Brilliant paper 120 grit loaded up quickly in that application due to the linear motion on the old finish.  I ended up doing most of the sanding by hand.  But later I found out several uses where the LS 130 shined - as a finish sander, and to get into inside corners of walls and rebates, right up to the 90 degree corners, and for smoothing edges of plywood.  Others have extolled its effectiveness as a power scraper with the scraping attachment, e.g. for removal of old vinyl flooring.  So its value to you depends on what uses you intend to make of it.

Dave R.
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Offline SRSemenza

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2007, 11:55 AM »
HI,

       Yet one more LS use.  I just did this today-  The pics are of a tray. The field (dark) was stained before the maple edge was applied. The edge was proud by about a 1/64". I was able to sand it flush without wrecking the stain by very carefully running the LS 130 along the edge. It took about 30 minutes to go through the grits and take it down flush and smooth.  I started with 60 Cristal to take off the material more rapidly.

     I have updated the review with the following section-  I have noticed that once the scratches of the grit you are using start to show up (which doesn't take long) switching to the next grit right away speeds the process. Continued use of the same grit does not take the material down as fast as swapping out right away. I think this is because the sander  / abrasive sheet is running in the same "grooves".  This effect is much more noticable with a really coarse grit such as P60 Cristal.


Seth
« Last Edit: February 21, 2008, 10:45 AM by semenza »

Offline jo041326

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2007, 05:04 AM »
Hi,
I was thinking about buying this sander for sanding beveled edges but also a lot of right angle edges (or rims - I don't know the right english word). I thought LS130 is able to sand the saw marks quickly and keep the edge in right angle. I have RO150 which is too big for the edges and I often slightly bevel the edge. Now, when I read this thread, I think it's not the best choice. Or is it? Or should I try RTS400?
Thanks.
Josef
« Last Edit: November 29, 2007, 05:04 AM by jo041326 »

Offline Eli

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2007, 05:13 AM »
400 is good for edges. Easy to control, and light.
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Offline woodgeek

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2007, 07:54 AM »
<snip>
I was thinking about buying this sander for sanding beveled edges but also a lot of right angle edges (or rims - I don't know the right english word). I thought LS130 is able to sand the saw marks quickly and keep the edge in right angle.
</snip>
Josef,  I bought the LS130 basically to do the same - sand saw marks on edges and routerbit marks and burns on profiles.  I found that it didn't really have the power for this and that hand sanding was faster and easier (although you do have to deal with the dust)  Since the 400 is also a "fine sander". my guess would be that it would act the same, although I will let those who have one speak to that...

thanks again to Forrest for the link to the flowchart for picking a sander.

while I have the RS2 and think its ok, I think the real bomb is my 150/3 - I love this sander more each time I use it!

thanks everyone for the feedback, I actually sent the LS130 back yesterday, now I have to figure out what I want to get instead...

Carl
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Offline jo041326

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2007, 02:32 AM »
Thanks Woodgeek for your comments. You are lucky you have 30 days money back guarantee. We don't. I even cannot try the sander before buy. Now I'm thinking moree about RTS400 but don't know if it's not the same as LS130.
Josef

Offline Eli

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2007, 03:53 AM »
Not the same. The main differences between the RTS400 and the LS 130 are:

1. size. the 400 is lighter and smaller.
2.pad motion. LS130 is linear
3.LS 130 pad shape can be changed out for a different profile. 400 is fixed

they do use the same size sandpaper, and they are both black and green.
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Offline jo041326

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2007, 04:03 AM »
Eli,
I thought if it's not the same as for the sanding. I want to sand saw marks and burned spots from router and it seems to me LS130 is too fine for that. Your points are clear from every prospects. I am interested in real usage, not the paper data.
Josef

Offline Eli

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2007, 04:07 AM »
I've got the 400, but I do like the LS130. Do you have an ETS125 or 150? They're pretty good for cleaning up edges.
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Offline jo041326

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2007, 04:11 AM »
I have RO150 and it is too big for small edges (about 1 inch). But I do like the ability of quick rough sanding and very fine sanding. My TS55 makes sometimes very visible marks and it is long process to sand it away and keep the edge still in right angle.
Josef

Offline Eli

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2007, 05:44 AM »
Well, if you do use the 400, start between 80-120 grit for that. Much higher and it just takes too long.
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Offline woodgeek

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2007, 08:13 AM »
Josef - if you are in the market for a sander for edge work and not profiles, you may want to look at the RS2.  It's a big flat sander that you could use on edges if you have the clearance.  In fact I think this is what Jerry W. uses and suggests.

As an aside, I recently got the soft pad for my 150/3 and am going to try this on profile work...

Carl
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Offline Mr Jones

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2007, 08:04 AM »
I have had great results with the LS130, but I do use the coarse (50 grit) and find it gives me a 100/120 hand sanded finish, I'm using it on painted surfaces mostly, maybe that makes a difference, as a painters sander I can't fault it and would recommend it to anyone, one thing I find is even with mouldings it extracts a lot of dust, and that is a big plus for me.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2007, 10:15 AM »
Josef - if you are in the market for a sander for edge work and not profiles, you may want to look at the RS2.  It's a big flat sander that you could use on edges if you have the clearance.  In fact I think this is what Jerry W. uses and suggests.

As an aside, I recently got the soft pad for my 150/3 and am going to try this on profile work...

Carl

       I am curious to know how this works out for you. I have the super soft pad. It may do all right on a shallow profile but it seems that it will tend to flatten the high spots.


Seth

Offline woodgeek

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2007, 10:57 AM »
       I am curious to know how this works out for you. I have the super soft pad. It may do all right on a shallow profile but it seems that it will tend to flatten the high spots.


Seth

yeah, I tried it this weekend and it didn't really work.  I even tried it with the foam interface pad w/o success.  Oh well, hand sanding it is!

c.
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Offline jo041326

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Re: LS130 LS 130 EQ Review Duplex
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2007, 03:07 AM »
Hm,
thanks for your experience. I think I'll buy boom arm instead and stay with hand sanding.
Joseph