Author Topic: I need a miter saw  (Read 12860 times)

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Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 1024
Re: I need a miter saw
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2021, 01:23 AM »
I have the Glide in my shop. I was one of the guys who got the Kapex when it had release teething problems. Binding up. I went through a couple. Festool was great and swapped out saw repeatedly and then refunded the price in full. I love the glide. The smoothness that you mention is the function of the design. You can however adjust the "pressure" that you feel while making a cut. I love it. However if you want to move it around, nope , heavy and unwieldy.  Portability is a sticky parameter, only you can decide size and weight parameters that work for you.

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Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 569
Re: I need a miter saw
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2021, 03:29 PM »
Thanks  Tallgrass.

Does   the  bevel locking  mechanism   give  you  any  trouble?
Go to   6 minutes  in...

Online Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 1870
Re: I need a miter saw
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2021, 06:08 PM »
It's the ergonomics of the vertical handle and the secondary safety switch that bother me about the Kapex. I tried one a few years ago, the cuts were great, the dust collection was superior, the handle/switches are a no-go for me. I much prefer the Dewalt DW717. It's a 10" SCMS with a horizontal handle and no secondary switch. Unless a guy is cutting 4 x 4 posts on a regular basis, I just don't see the need for a 12" blade? The 10" have far less deflection/wobble and give much cleaner cuts in the same material. Yes, 12" has more capacity, but if you are not using that, what good is it otherwise?
One of the other guys in the same shop has one of the non-sliding Dewalt's and it is horrible. It jerks when it starts and has that little extra tab on the switch too, plus makes a hellish sound when it runs. If the color scheme wasn't the same, you would never believe that the same company makes them.
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Offline jcrowe1950

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    • Woodcraft Chattanooga, TN
Re: I need a miter saw
« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2021, 07:03 PM »
It's the ergonomics of the vertical handle and the secondary safety switch that bother me about the Kapex. I tried one a few years ago, the cuts were great, the dust collection was superior, the handle/switches are a no-go for me. I much prefer the Dewalt DW717. It's a 10" SCMS with a horizontal handle and no secondary switch. Unless a guy is cutting 4 x 4 posts on a regular basis, I just don't see the need for a 12" blade? The 10" have far less deflection/wobble and give much cleaner cuts in the same material. Yes, 12" has more capacity, but if you are not using that, what good is it otherwise?
One of the other guys in the same shop has one of the non-sliding Dewalt's and it is horrible. It jerks when it starts and has that little extra tab on the switch too, plus makes a hellish sound when it runs. If the color scheme wasn't the same, you would never believe that the same company makes them.

   The handle position on the Kapex was designed that way on purpose. It's much more ergonomically correct than the horizontal handles like on my Bosch. Think of it this way, if you are hand sawing and wish to make accurate cuts, you align your lower arm and hand in the same plane as the saw blade.  Once you think of it this way, it makes sense, at least if you have much of a hand tool background.

    WRT the Bosch, I like mine but when I really want to make accurate cuts for furniture pieces, I sneak into the classroom at work and use the Kapex there. The cut quality is simply superior. IMO, one the best features of the Kapex is the hold down....I'd give a lot for something similar on my Bosch. In the end, they are just tools and whatever works for the individual will be what he or she chooses. That said, IME, showing a customer the cool features of a tool like the Kapex is just a lot of fun.

    BTW, Crazy, your point about blade deflection and wobble between a 12" and a 10" saw is spot on. As always, OALA, and YMMV.

Festo Joe
 8)
Festool Specialist
Woodcraft of Chattanooga
Festool Specialist at Woodcraft, Chattanooga, TN

Latest Festool purchase...Rotex 150.

Offline tallgrass

  • Posts: 1024
Re: I need a miter saw
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2021, 04:18 AM »
The locking mechanism gives me no trouble whatsoever. However mine is an early American model. That model looks like a newer model and that may be the case. I like it. I know there are strong opinions when it comes to this. I honestly wished the Kapex had worked for me. I am a deep coolaid drinker of festool and it was a disappointment. Having said that, the glide has been amazing for the years I have had it. I watched the review, not a bad one. I will say that his negative on the weight is spot on. It does weigh a ton, and I am no shrinking violet. :)

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1532
Re: I need a miter saw
« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2021, 08:30 AM »
The best accessory I ever added to my older DeWalt 12" chop saw was the Fastcap zero clearance tape. 

It does exactly what it claims to do. 

But additionally it shows precisely where both sides of the saw blade cut. 

I make molding returns on end cuts.  Cutting the 45 degree angle was never an issue.  But making precise length cuts was.  I generally made them a little oversized and then glued them in place and used a sander to get them flush.  But that was an extra step.

Now I simply make a thin line exactly where I need the cut and extend it over the edge.  I than align that with the zero clearance cut.  It is always exactly on the mark.

I suppose a precisely calibrated laser would do the same (as long as you don't change the blade width.  But the zero clearance is cheap, easy to install and always automatically "calibrated".



https://www.amazon.com/FastCap-Zero-Clearance-Tape-Strips/dp/B07C68GTVK


Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3813
Re: I need a miter saw
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2021, 09:37 AM »
Snip.

 IMO, one the best features of the Kapex is the hold down...

I remain surprised that a) other miter saw makers do not offer the same kind of non-screw type of hold-down for their new saws, and b) copycats have not flooded the market, given the price Festool is charging for it.

I use it in 90% of my cuts, if not more.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 09:39 AM by ChuckM »

Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 569
Re: I need a miter saw
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2021, 10:03 AM »
Was  back in the  tool  store  today.
And  I went  straight to the Bosch  glide.

The  locking  lever  on  the glide  is  quite   difficult   to  move.
And as in  the review  video,  movement is  still  possible  when  its  back in the tightened  mode.
And  I'm no  shrinking  violet  either. I was  almost  expecting  something  to  snap  as  I  pulled  it.

And  like   the reviewer  said,  for  the  amount  of  force  needed,  you  would  expect  the  saw  head  to  be  locked  solid.





« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 10:15 AM by Lbob131 »

Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 569
Re: I need a miter saw
« Reply #38 on: July 13, 2021, 10:12 AM »
Then  I tried   the Kapex  again.
I agree  with the points  made  by Jcrowe above.

But  also  regarding  the  handle  height  I  noticed  that  the festool display  box  stand   was  lower.
Probably about  700mm high   instead  of  the  800mm   that  my  makita  sits  at. And  I expect  most  saw  stands  sit at.

For  me  personally,  the  feel  is  ergonomically   fine.
Though I am  familiar   with  the  makita  ls1013 which  is  similar.

Regarding  this  wrist  twisting   issue  that  some  people  experience, the  saw  stand  height  is  the   main issue.  I  would  think.
 imho. ;D
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 10:23 AM by Lbob131 »

Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 569
Re: I need a miter saw
« Reply #39 on: July 13, 2021, 10:42 AM »
On  a  totally  separate note..
My two  work colleagues  have  Makita  ls1013  saws  that  have seen  a lot of  work.

Personally  I  would  chuck  both  of  them  in  the skip.
No  working guards.  I think one  guy  jams  his guard  up  with  a  wedge of  wood.

Anyway  I was  using  one  the  other  day  and as I turned  away  from  the saw,  the  back  of  my hand  came  into  full  contact   with  the  spinning  blade  as  it  wound   down  to  stop.
I was  surprised  when I turned  back  I saw  no red  stuff.

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3813
Re: I need a miter saw
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2021, 10:46 AM »
Often, the Kapex in combination with the DF500 can produce the kind of precision work no other pairs of tools can (in terms of simplicity).
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 10:59 AM by ChuckM »

Online Crazyraceguy

  • Posts: 1870
Re: I need a miter saw
« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2021, 06:54 PM »

   The handle position on the Kapex was designed that way on purpose. It's much more ergonomically correct than the horizontal handles like on my Bosch. Think of it this way, if you are hand sawing and wish to make accurate cuts, you align your lower arm and hand in the same plane as the saw blade.  Once you think of it this way, it makes sense, at least if you have much of a hand tool background.

    WRT the Bosch, I like mine but when I really want to make accurate cuts for furniture pieces, I sneak into the classroom at work and use the Kapex there. The cut quality is simply superior. IMO, one the best features of the Kapex is the hold down....I'd give a lot for something similar on my Bosch. In the end, they are just tools and whatever works for the individual will be what he or she chooses. That said, IME, showing a customer the cool features of a tool like the Kapex is just a lot of fun.

    BTW, Crazy, your point about blade deflection and wobble between a 12" and a 10" saw is spot on. As always, OALA, and YMMV.

Festo Joe
 8)
Festool Specialist
Woodcraft of Chattanooga


I just can't get along with the vertical handle. It's a wrist posititioning thing. With the horizontal handle, it's a simple pull down with no flex to the wrist at all. The vertical hand position of a hand saw is a much different motion. Forward and back in a straight line is far different, where stability is the point, but that doesn't apply to a mitersaw.
There are times when I make hundreds of cut in a few hours on a mitersaw station that is very high by most standards, but works great for me. I never use the hold down, ever, with any mitersaw. I have the Kreg stop system on both sides of the saw, calibrated to be dead-on. I cut to measurements rather than marks to a lazer or shadow light line, so those would not be added value features for me.
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Offline CeeJay

  • Posts: 440
Re: I need a miter saw
« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2021, 08:40 PM »
I agree. The ‘pistol grip’ on the Kapex was a showstopper for me. I’ve got mild RSI in my wrist from too much gripping of hammer drill triggers 25 years ago and the Kapex grip did not work for me.

The horizontal Makita grip was much more comfortable.


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Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 1514
Re: I need a miter saw
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2021, 09:07 PM »
Ironically, a horizontal grip is what sent me in the direction of the Bosch simple miter saw that I bought 20-some-odd years ago to cut landscape timbers, because it felt much more natural for a non-slider chop saw.  I used that thing off and on over the last few years and was reminded during the Festool Live episode on Kapex Tenons that I even kludged together a blocker to cut tenons in 4x4s on that little Bosch jobber when I was building corbels for my old house.  I always thought my next saw would also have a horizontal grip, but now I have a Kapex. 

Time will tell if my body demands I go back to the horizontal grip some day or not, but my back and hips are more of a problem than my hands or wrists at this point.

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3813
Re: I need a miter saw
« Reply #44 on: July 13, 2021, 10:47 PM »
I didn't encounter any problem transitioning from a horizontal grip (DeWalt) to the Kapex. I recall watching a "review" video in which the fellow named the Kapex's grip as the key reason why he wouldn't want the Kapex.

Many Kapex users employ a dead grip when they use it, which is totally unnecessary, and straining both the wrist and hand. It's a loose grip once the saw is started. I literally rest my hand on the handle when making cuts, going in like using a handsaw -- in a straight line. Unless I'm being careless, all my cuts are first-class. Look at the three-way miters. Those angled cuts were as demanding as any other cuts one can think of.   

Offline rmhinden

  • Posts: 526
Re: I need a miter saw
« Reply #45 on: July 14, 2021, 11:01 AM »
I have been fine with the handle on my Kapex.   I guess it's what you are used to.   My previous saw was a Makita 10" Miter Saw that had a similar style handle.

Bob

Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 569
Re: I need a miter saw
« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2021, 04:54 PM »
Im happy  with either  vertical  or horizontal.
My next saw  is  the   Hikoki  C10FCE2.
In  woodworking  you  need  to be  versatile.
 Like  a professional   footballer  who is  as  happy  kicking a  ball   with  his  right   foot  as  with  his  left  foot.

Offline Sci

  • Posts: 28
Re: I need a miter saw
« Reply #47 on: August 29, 2021, 04:25 PM »
I have the Bosch axial glide and there is a screw that adjusts the glide action for more or less restriction.  Just fyi.