I’ve had a really nice miter saw I bought at Home Depot. I gave it away when I got tired of taking it outside to use. The dust collection was terrible. I replaced it with a Kapex years ago. I’ve been very satisfied. I have a dedicated Festool Mini dust collector under the Kapex UG stand connected through a short wide diameter hose. Dust collection, while not perfect, is excellent. The battery option would not be an asset as my Kapex power runs through the vac and the vac would not be battery powered. If I had to take the Kapex to a job site, the battery option would be a good thing but then I’d have to get power to the vac.

To me, the Kapex is a semi-precision tool. If I were slamming through framing 2x4s all day long, I’d look at a non-Kapex option.

Makita do a 36v vac, we use them with a 36v mitre saw, and 36volt plunge saws.

Just a thought, buying a different make stand in saw, whilst waiting for a Kapex deal, is false economy surely?
I’m speaking as a pro user though 

Yea so I just bought the kapex machine to replace me 12 year old dewalt 12” dual bevel. IMO this thing is outstanding, the only thing I find as a downer is carrying it in an out of people’s homes. It’s awkward to carry I find. I guess I could buy the stand but I like the one I have for now


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Thank you.  Congrats on the new saw.  I have a 15 yo Bosch, the model just before the glide model.  Needs to go ASAP.

I owned a 12" DeWalt non sliding miter saw.  It was great I sold it because I found a Kapex on FB Marketplace, sent it in for a full service and used it for 3 months.  I sold it and bought the DeWalt with the XPS light again.  I was using a CT26 with the upgraded hose diameter on both saws.  The dust collection difference IMO is negligible.  I sold the Kapex, bought the DeWalt miter saw and used the extra money for other tools in my shop.  I have a track saw that I use for any wider cross cuts than my miter aw can handle, which isn't often.

I really wanted to like the Kapex, I have several sanders, domino, routers, saws etc. so I'm a festool fanboy of sorts, but I really wasn't very impressed with it....The Kapex is also the ONLY miter saw I've ever used that I experience kick back with.  Probably user error, but worth nothing.  It happened a lot with the Kapex.

Anyways, that's my two cents.  I love my DeWalt, I'd get a DeWalt or Milwaukee slider but I need it to sit flush against my shop wall so that wasn't an option.  Hope this helps.

My use is primarily building furniture, NOT trim carpentry.  So my use case may not be the same as everyone else.

Snip.
I’m not a fan of all the battery operated stuff. Other than drivers I still stick with corded tools. I hate having a tool with an expensive consumable part.

Me neither, not to mention the fact that changes or improvements in battery technology can easily make a huge investment obsolete in just years. Sometimes, a battery can even cost as much as a tool itself from a different brand. The worst? There's no one standard like DVDs, USB, etc. across different brands and platforms. I own 5 different cordless drills for which only one has a spare battery.

Murphy's Law also tells me that I often run out of juice when I don't have a spare charged battery around (unless I count a break of a couple of hours a good thing). Sometimes, I work 6 hours in a row, and I hate to look for alternatives when a battery "dies" on me in the middle of something. Corded...never an issue.

Scott Brown is one of my favorite you tube people great honest info makes ya feel like hes a friend of yours just watching his videos. Heres one that is appropriate for this thread



and another sort of a part 2



enjoy i know I do

I also have a DeWalt.  I chose it because the indexes were stamped (with the attendant accuracy of a stamping die) and did not rely on the as-cast detents that all the other saws seemed to rely on. 

That reliance on as-cast detents is a product of cost-saving efforts.  There is nothing wrong with the systems they use.  I'm certain that the engineers who designed those saws called out a post-casting machine operation, but the bean counters then stepped in and said that the as-cast detents were "good enough". 

Also, the DeWalt index can be calibrated (as a whole, not as individual indexes).  None of the others seemed to have that ability. 

Note:  I have not had the opportunity to study the Kapex saws, so I cannot comment on how they handled the angle indexes.

These type of threads are worthless. There are plenty of posts on Mitre Saw pluses and minuses here as well as on the various tool review sites. Your options are:

1. Buy the Kapex if it fits your budget. It's a great saw. Ignore the noise on the failure of the prior version. It's vastly better than other options though for the price you could probably get two very good mitre saws.
2. Buy any of the other major brands. I prefer the Dewalt Flexvolt for its flexibility (corded or cordless).

Are they though?  Some of the Bosch and Makita saws supposedly have issues.  The DWS779/780 has all of the capabailities of the Kapex.  Out of the box, it can do everything the Kapex can do.  It's also way erm..rougher.. in every front.  From the sliding mechanism, to the trenching, to the locks to the saw jumping in the air when you pull the trigger... Currently, on the market, the 12" Dewalt is all I would trust as an option (I simply have no feedback or experience on the Milwaukee to work off of).  More importantly, is the buyer going to be cutting trim upright?  The internet will tell you can buy a DWS779 very cheap and add the light to turn it into the DWS780.  It won't tell you that every DWS779 I've seen has the holes bored for the crown stops but not the threads... Other importantly... is the buyer cutting posts all day long?  Because I'd take the Dewalt over the Kapex for that...regardless of budget.  The Kapex is the nicest to work with and I double down on that route if money is not tight.

I have to agree with yetihunter.  The DWS779/780 is hard to beat especially for the money.  I wouldn't cut with either the Kapex or any miter saw in a finished house so the minor improvement the kapex might have in dust collection is arbitrary and isn't worth 2-3x the price.  If you are getting bad cuts from either its either you or the blade unless the saw has been dropped or something. Im not a fan of the Kapex handle either but that might just be me and isnt a deal breaker.  I dont mind spending the money but If Im spending considerably more for something I expect considerably more performance.  The cost for performance ratio isnt proportionate IMHO for the Kapex.     

I don't have a laser on my saw.  But recently I added Facap's zero clearance tape to the insert.  It offers a very precise way to measure cuts (and makes cleaner cuts at the same time).  It would appear to be more accurate than a laser which has to be calibrated and set to the width of the blade.

The zero clearance tape is always calibrated and set to the width of the blade.

Thinking out loud and not trying to be combative, but I can see the value of a laser or shadow if one is using their miter saw to cut tenons or dadoes, especially on a slider with a depth stop/trenching feature.  The parallax viewing error from the Zero Clearance could be a hindrance in that technique?

For a stationary saw, I would prefer a radial arm saw.  It is more versatile; it can cut dadoes as well as crosscuts.   You can make rip cuts with them too, but that always seemed like a bad idea.

Wrong place to post a question like this. A great majority of contributors seem to be well-heeled hobby woodworkers who’ve never had to do this for a living, and who have zero clue what a real-word mitre saw actually has to do. Ergo - they’ll all say “Go buy a Kapex, it’s the bomb”. Maybe for a guy who does a few cuts a day in a crystal-clean, warm workshop he just spent 6 months building, in between shopping trips with his wife and having a buddies over to admire the box he just spent 3 months making, but for real life (wind, torrential rain, snow, blistering heat, terrible site power, uneven ground, wet material, time pressure from customers, time pressure from other trades etc.) - buy a DeWalt 780. The dust extraction is hopeless, but it gets the job done. And done. And done. And done.

Snip.

 but for real life (wind, torrential rain, snow,

Wait a minute...


 

I have that Irwin laser on my Makita and they do work well.

Was  in  a  local tool  store  and  they  have  on display  just  about  every  scms miter  saw  worth looking  at.
One  thing I noticed  after  sliding  about a  dozen  of  them  in and  out  on  the rods  was  the  grinding  sound  that  some  of  them  made.
 
Milwaukee's  big  6955-20  was  there  and  it  was  quite  smooth.
The  reason  that  one  captured  my attention   was  because  the  slide  rods  exit  and  enter  the  base. 
Very much  like  my  old  Makita  LS1013.
 Its  just  a shame  (imo)  they  don't  fit  the retractable  tape   that returns  the rods  back  to the back stop.
AFAIK  Makita  were  the only  manufacturer   to ever  have  deployed  that  neat  little  trick.
And  I very  much  like it.

Milwaukee  had  a  top rod  model  which  was   rough  on  the slide.
The  smoothest  runners  were  makita,  and festool  and  that big milwaukee beast.

Bosch, Metabo, Dewalt   and  Hikoki  were  on display also.
A  lot of  them  were  rough  on the  slide.
About   15 saws  I tried. 

The  Bosch  glide  seemed   too  smooth.
And  not sure  how  that would  feel  when  cutting.

Thanks  Tallgrass.

Does   the  bevel locking  mechanism   give  you  any  trouble?
Go to   6 minutes  in...

It's the ergonomics of the vertical handle and the secondary safety switch that bother me about the Kapex. I tried one a few years ago, the cuts were great, the dust collection was superior, the handle/switches are a no-go for me. I much prefer the Dewalt DW717. It's a 10" SCMS with a horizontal handle and no secondary switch. Unless a guy is cutting 4 x 4 posts on a regular basis, I just don't see the need for a 12" blade? The 10" have far less deflection/wobble and give much cleaner cuts in the same material. Yes, 12" has more capacity, but if you are not using that, what good is it otherwise?
One of the other guys in the same shop has one of the non-sliding Dewalt's and it is horrible. It jerks when it starts and has that little extra tab on the switch too, plus makes a hellish sound when it runs. If the color scheme wasn't the same, you would never believe that the same company makes them.

   The handle position on the Kapex was designed that way on purpose. It's much more ergonomically correct than the horizontal handles like on my Bosch. Think of it this way, if you are hand sawing and wish to make accurate cuts, you align your lower arm and hand in the same plane as the saw blade.  Once you think of it this way, it makes sense, at least if you have much of a hand tool background.

    WRT the Bosch, I like mine but when I really want to make accurate cuts for furniture pieces, I sneak into the classroom at work and use the Kapex there. The cut quality is simply superior. IMO, one the best features of the Kapex is the hold down....I'd give a lot for something similar on my Bosch. In the end, they are just tools and whatever works for the individual will be what he or she chooses. That said, IME, showing a customer the cool features of a tool like the Kapex is just a lot of fun.

    BTW, Crazy, your point about blade deflection and wobble between a 12" and a 10" saw is spot on. As always, OALA, and YMMV.

Festo Joe
 
Festool Specialist
Woodcraft of Chattanooga

The best accessory I ever added to my older DeWalt 12" chop saw was the Fastcap zero clearance tape. 

It does exactly what it claims to do. 

But additionally it shows precisely where both sides of the saw blade cut. 

I make molding returns on end cuts.  Cutting the 45 degree angle was never an issue.  But making precise length cuts was.  I generally made them a little oversized and then glued them in place and used a sander to get them flush.  But that was an extra step.

Now I simply make a thin line exactly where I need the cut and extend it over the edge.  I than align that with the zero clearance cut.  It is always exactly on the mark.

I suppose a precisely calibrated laser would do the same (as long as you don't change the blade width.  But the zero clearance is cheap, easy to install and always automatically "calibrated".



https://www.amazon.com/FastCap-Zero-Clearance-Tape-Strips/dp/B07C68GTVK

Was  back in the  tool  store  today.
And  I went  straight to the Bosch  glide.

The  locking  lever  on  the glide  is  quite   difficult   to  move.
And as in  the review  video,  movement is  still  possible  when  its  back in the tightened  mode.
And  I'm no  shrinking  violet  either. I was  almost  expecting  something  to  snap  as  I  pulled  it.

And  like   the reviewer  said,  for  the  amount  of  force  needed,  you  would  expect  the  saw  head  to  be  locked  solid.

On  a  totally  separate note..
My two  work colleagues  have  Makita  ls1013  saws  that  have seen  a lot of  work.

Personally  I  would  chuck  both  of  them  in  the skip.
No  working guards.  I think one  guy  jams  his guard  up  with  a  wedge of  wood.

Anyway  I was  using  one  the  other  day  and as I turned  away  from  the saw,  the  back  of  my hand  came  into  full  contact   with  the  spinning  blade  as  it  wound   down  to  stop.
I was  surprised  when I turned  back  I saw  no red  stuff.

   The handle position on the Kapex was designed that way on purpose. It's much more ergonomically correct than the horizontal handles like on my Bosch. Think of it this way, if you are hand sawing and wish to make accurate cuts, you align your lower arm and hand in the same plane as the saw blade.  Once you think of it this way, it makes sense, at least if you have much of a hand tool background.

    WRT the Bosch, I like mine but when I really want to make accurate cuts for furniture pieces, I sneak into the classroom at work and use the Kapex there. The cut quality is simply superior. IMO, one the best features of the Kapex is the hold down....I'd give a lot for something similar on my Bosch. In the end, they are just tools and whatever works for the individual will be what he or she chooses. That said, IME, showing a customer the cool features of a tool like the Kapex is just a lot of fun.

    BTW, Crazy, your point about blade deflection and wobble between a 12" and a 10" saw is spot on. As always, OALA, and YMMV.

Festo Joe
 
Festool Specialist
Woodcraft of Chattanooga

I just can't get along with the vertical handle. It's a wrist posititioning thing. With the horizontal handle, it's a simple pull down with no flex to the wrist at all. The vertical hand position of a hand saw is a much different motion. Forward and back in a straight line is far different, where stability is the point, but that doesn't apply to a mitersaw.
There are times when I make hundreds of cut in a few hours on a mitersaw station that is very high by most standards, but works great for me. I never use the hold down, ever, with any mitersaw. I have the Kreg stop system on both sides of the saw, calibrated to be dead-on. I cut to measurements rather than marks to a lazer or shadow light line, so those would not be added value features for me.

Ironically, a horizontal grip is what sent me in the direction of the Bosch simple miter saw that I bought 20-some-odd years ago to cut landscape timbers, because it felt much more natural for a non-slider chop saw.  I used that thing off and on over the last few years and was reminded during the Festool Live episode on Kapex Tenons that I even kludged together a blocker to cut tenons in 4x4s on that little Bosch jobber when I was building corbels for my old house.  I always thought my next saw would also have a horizontal grip, but now I have a Kapex. 

Time will tell if my body demands I go back to the horizontal grip some day or not, but my back and hips are more of a problem than my hands or wrists at this point.

I have been fine with the handle on my Kapex.   I guess it's what you are used to.   My previous saw was a Makita 10" Miter Saw that had a similar style handle.

Bob

I have the Bosch axial glide and there is a screw that adjusts the glide action for more or less restriction.  Just fyi.