Author Topic: HKC 55 EB review (Read 138009 times)

Arvid · « **Reply #180 on:** September 26, 2016, 07:33 PM »

Quote from: jimbo51 on September 26, 2016, 10:21 AM

The cordless HKC 55 is perfect for framing, decking, flooring, roofing or other work when you don't want to worry about cords or plugs. It's the right tool when you need more time and less hassle. from Facebook today.

How is it that a "perfect" saw cannot make the cuts described ad nauseum in above comments? I would post a comment on Facebook but it would likely baffle most of my friends.

That facebook post and marketing is my rub. That and the gentleman in the video from festool connect demonstrating the saw was careful not to display it could not cut a 2x4 at 45 bevel while on the track. He very sneakingly said " let's just pick a bevel" and demonstrated a bevel cut not mentioning 30 degrees was as far as you could go. Even though he knew very well not to go beyond 30 degrees. So he did not just pick any bevel he picked that bevel deliberately

Not a fair demonstration and rather deceitful if you ask me.

T. Ernsberger · « **Reply #181 on:** September 26, 2016, 08:30 PM »

Quote from: Arvid on September 26, 2016, 07:33 PM

Quote from: jimbo51 on September 26, 2016, 10:21 AM
The cordless HKC 55 is perfect for framing, decking, flooring, roofing or other work when you don't want to worry about cords or plugs. It's the right tool when you need more time and less hassle. from Facebook today.

How is it that a "perfect" saw cannot make the cuts described ad nauseum in above comments? I would post a comment on Facebook but it would likely baffle most of my friends.

That facebook post and marketing is my rub. That and the gentleman in the video from festool connect demonstrating the saw was careful not to display it could not cut a 2x4 at 45 bevel while on the track. He very sneakingly said " let's just pick a bevel" and demonstrated a bevel cut not mentioning 30 degrees was as far as you could go. Even though he knew very well not to go beyond 30 degrees. So he did not just pick any bevel he picked that bevel deliberately

Not a fair demonstration and rather deceitful if you ask me.

I glad I'm not the only person that feels this way. It was a major fail having a "construction" saw that cannot cut a 45 bevel in a 2x4.

Jason Kehl · « **Reply #182 on:** September 26, 2016, 09:18 PM »

Yes; a major fail indeed with the limited cut depth. I'd also be concerned about the 1200w motor when using the saw for rips in framing lumber. I'm not a Festool hater, I have a pile of their tools and generally find them to be very good, but I'm not so sure about this one. I'm looking at the Mafell KSS60; it is bigger, heavier and more expensive, but it also looks like it would be a much more capable saw for framing.

Brice Burrell · « **Reply #183 on:** September 26, 2016, 09:24 PM »

Quote from: Tyler Ernsberger on September 26, 2016, 08:30 PM

I glad I'm not the only person that feels this way. It was a major fail having a "construction" saw that cannot cut a 45 bevel in a 2x4.

I feel the 45 degree bevel issue is not going to be a problem for many users. All the same, this is a serious blunder by Festool. I really think they should be looking for a solution ASAP. Looking at the saw it seems like the easiest solution for Festool is enlarge the blade guard slightly and offer a 165mm blade as an option. Festool, I do hope you are listening.

erock · « **Reply #184 on:** September 26, 2016, 09:37 PM »

If I'm spending over $400 on a saw.....the S.O.B better cut all the way through a 2x4 on a 45 no matter the moister content or if the dang board has a cup or crown........

If I have a $30 Skil saw that can cut through a 2x4 at a 45* with a cheap speed square, what would make me want to buy the HKC ??

Sure, I'm a hobbyist and I don't make a lot of cuts through a 2x lumber on a 45*. But if the saw has a 45* marking.....I expect the saw to make the cuts. I don't expect to FINISH the cut with my fingers or clean it up with a file or a hand plane. Defeats the purpose of making the dang cut to begin with.

I could go on about this saw......but I'll keep my comments to myself.

Eric

Arvid · « **Reply #185 on:** September 27, 2016, 12:19 AM »

Quote from: Jason Kehl on September 26, 2016, 09:18 PM

Yes; a major fail indeed with the limited cut depth. I'd also be concerned about the 1200w motor when using the saw for rips in framing lumber. I'm not a Festool hater, I have a pile of their tools and generally find them to be very good, but I'm not so sure about this one. I'm looking at the Mafell KSS60; it is bigger, heavier and more expensive, but it also looks like it would be a much more capable saw for framing.

I agree this should be marketed as a light duty carpentry saw. Not demonstrated cutting did mention all framing lumber. It's misleading

Brice Burrell · « **Reply #186 on:** September 27, 2016, 08:18 AM »

Quote from: Arvid on September 27, 2016, 12:19 AM

Quote from: Jason Kehl on September 26, 2016, 09:18 PM
Yes; a major fail indeed with the limited cut depth. I'd also be concerned about the 1200w motor when using the saw for rips in framing lumber. I'm not a Festool hater, I have a pile of their tools and generally find them to be very good, but I'm not so sure about this one. I'm looking at the Mafell KSS60; it is bigger, heavier and more expensive, but it also looks like it would be a much more capable saw for framing.

I agree this should be marketed as a light duty carpentry saw. Not demonstrated cutting did mention all framing lumber. It's misleading

I have the HKC, it is more of lighter duty saw, like most other cordless saws. On the plus side I would say it is a pretty capable saw for only being an 18V tool. By cordless saw standards I would the HKC is a more of a medium duty saw.

I can't comment much from first hand experience on the corded HK saw, although I do have the KSS400. Still, I'd like to bring up a few points. The HK/HKC, and the other cross cuts saws are able to cut much more efficiently because they are on a rail. Running a circular saw freehand there is, relatively speaking, a lot more binding of the blade, and you'll need more power to over come that binding. With my KSS400 (with 1100 watt motor), with angled or beveled cuts on 2x10 or 2x12 material you hear the saw working harder. However, I've never felt like I was overworking the saw. Also, your typical sidewinder will moan while beveling a 2x12. One last point that we need to keep in mind, Festool has the HK85 for heavy duty cutting, so they have accounted for that market (in Europe at least).

I guess my opinion is the 160mm blade crosscut saws aren't light duty from my experience, and probably not heavy duty either. They fall in the middle, right where most people's needs are.

Arvid · « **Reply #187 on:** September 27, 2016, 09:39 AM »

Quote from: Brice Burrell on September 27, 2016, 08:18 AM

Quote from: Arvid on September 27, 2016, 12:19 AM
Quote from: Jason Kehl on September 26, 2016, 09:18 PM
Yes; a major fail indeed with the limited cut depth. I'd also be concerned about the 1200w motor when using the saw for rips in framing lumber. I'm not a Festool hater, I have a pile of their tools and generally find them to be very good, but I'm not so sure about this one. I'm looking at the Mafell KSS60; it is bigger, heavier and more expensive, but it also looks like it would be a much more capable saw for framing.

I agree this should be marketed as a light duty carpentry saw. Not demonstrated cutting did mention all framing lumber. It's misleading

I have the HKC, it is more of lighter duty saw, like most other cordless saws. On the plus side I would say it is a pretty capable saw for only being an 18V tool. By cordless saw standards I would the HKC is a more of a medium duty saw.

I can't comment much from first hand experience on the corded HK saw, although I do have the KSS400. Still, I'd like to bring up a few points. The HK/HKC, and the other cross cuts saws are able to cut much more efficiently because they are on a rail. Running a circular saw freehand there is, relatively speaking, a lot more binding of the blade, and you'll need more power to over come that binding. With my KSS400 (with 1100 watt motor), with angled or beveled cuts on 2x10 or 2x12 material you hear the saw working harder. However, I've never felt like I was overworking the saw. Also, your typical sidewinder will moan while beveling a 2x12. One last point that we need to keep in mind, Festool has the HK85 for heavy duty cutting, so they have accounted for that market (in Europe at least).

I guess my opinion is the 160mm blade crosscut saws aren't light duty from my experience, and probably not heavy duty either. They fall in the middle, right where most people's needs are.

The hk85 does seem like a fine saw but is overkill for most jobs with a blade that is 230mm.
To use that here is the states for 2x lumber would be a waste. They need an hk that is closer to mafell a kss60 if they are going to market it as a carpentry saw and not a glorified trim saw/ siding saw

rst · « **Reply #188 on:** September 27, 2016, 10:05 AM »

I used my HKC for building a deck and stairs for my daughter. All the wood was wet pressure treated. At no time did the saw bog down, including cutting the 2x12 for the steps and joists. I have not used it to rip treated yet, my 12 tooth blade should arrive today. Anyone want a Milwaukee 18v wood saw? Keeping the steel cutting one however.

Lbob131 · « **Reply #189 on:** September 27, 2016, 04:52 PM »

Quote from: Arvid on September 27, 2016, 09:39 AM

Quote from: Brice Burrell on September 27, 2016, 08:18 AM
Quote from: Arvid on September 27, 2016, 12:19 AM
Quote from: Jason Kehl on September 26, 2016, 09:18 PM
Yes; a major fail indeed with the limited cut depth. I'd also be concerned about the 1200w motor when using the saw for rips in framing lumber. I'm not a Festool hater, I have a pile of their tools and generally find them to be very good, but I'm not so sure about this one. I'm looking at the Mafell KSS60; it is bigger, heavier and more expensive, but it also looks like it would be a much more capable saw for framing.

I agree this should be marketed as a light duty carpentry saw. Not demonstrated cutting did mention all framing lumber. It's misleading

I have the HKC, it is more of lighter duty saw, like most other cordless saws. On the plus side I would say it is a pretty capable saw for only being an 18V tool. By cordless saw standards I would the HKC is a more of a medium duty saw.

I can't comment much from first hand experience on the corded HK saw, although I do have the KSS400. Still, I'd like to bring up a few points. The HK/HKC, and the other cross cuts saws are able to cut much more efficiently because they are on a rail. Running a circular saw freehand there is, relatively speaking, a lot more binding of the blade, and you'll need more power to over come that binding. With my KSS400 (with 1100 watt motor), with angled or beveled cuts on 2x10 or 2x12 material you hear the saw working harder. However, I've never felt like I was overworking the saw. Also, your typical sidewinder will moan while beveling a 2x12. One last point that we need to keep in mind, Festool has the HK85 for heavy duty cutting, so they have accounted for that market (in Europe at least).

I guess my opinion is the 160mm blade crosscut saws aren't light duty from my experience, and probably not heavy duty either. They fall in the middle, right where most people's needs are.

The hk85 does seem like a fine saw but is overkill for most jobs with a blade that is 230mm.
To use that here is the states for 2x lumber would be a waste. They need an hk that is closer to mafell a kss60 if they are going to market it as a carpentry saw and not a glorified trim saw/ siding saw

You could stack two on top of each other which in theory would give you a 4x.
As the 2x lumber in the states is only 1 1/2" thick, two stacked together makes 3", therefore the hkc85 will chop
the two in one go with ease.

My big Makita 5103R has a 100mm depth of cut capability and was cutting several t&g boards together in one go the other day.

Jason Kehl · « **Reply #190 on:** September 27, 2016, 07:38 PM »

In regards to my thought that the 1200w motor is on the light side is based on my use of the TS55 (on a Festool track) to trim the ends of pressure treated decking after its fastened in place. I used to use the TS55 for that but it had a difficult time with it, it would heart up and shut down. It's good that it shut down instead of destroying itself, and I realize that the TS55 was not intended for framing lumber, but the fact that the HK has the same 1200w motor discourages me from buying the HK. I continue to use the TS55 for sheet goods and it works just fine.

I ended up with the Mafell KSS400 and the KSS80. The 400 is a nice saw and very similar to the HK, I do wish for a bit more power and cutting depth. The KSS80 is a fantastic saw, but heavier and bulkier than necessary for typical 2x framing requirements. The KSS60 sounds like the perfect do almost everything saw.

The point in sharing all of this is to caution potential purchasers that the HK may be a little disappointing as a framing saw, depending on your needs.

j

AJCruise · « **Reply #191 on:** October 05, 2016, 06:57 PM »

Jason,
I have to agree with you on this.
Mafell have the extra model (60) to cover most of the bases for framing, not to heavy for frequent
use, but powerful enough to handle 2X stock.
(2X stock in Ireland/UK is 44mm - 1 3/4" so the HK55 or KSS400 won't cut it at 45 degrees)

I am trying to go cordless as much as possible, so an HK70 with 2 batteries, like the TSC55R, would be a great addition to the line.

I will get the HKC55 to do most of the 1st fix work, TSC55R to replace my TS55 (to be fitted into CMS)
A Kapex will handle the larger stock for joists and rafters, I always cut them on the ground level first.

Alan

Arvid · « **Reply #192 on:** October 06, 2016, 12:42 AM »

kss60cc being delivered tomorrow. I will let you all know what i think of it. I will review it in the review other tools section.

Brice Burrell · « **Reply #193 on:** October 06, 2016, 08:41 AM »

Quote from: Arvid on October 06, 2016, 12:42 AM

kss60cc being delivered tomorrow. I will let you all know what i think of it. I will review it in the review other tools section.

I look forward to your review.

Lbob131 · « **Reply #194 on:** October 13, 2016, 02:06 PM »

I went on to axminster to order the Festool HK 85 with the FSK rail but they are out of stock. I'd like the machine in 110v.
They must be selling like hot cakes.

Kylec57 · « **Reply #195 on:** October 13, 2016, 02:37 PM »

The 85 doesn't come in 110v I believe. I have the hkc55 and the hk55 110v. The hkc just struggles so much it annoyed me into buying the 110v and I love the hk55 it's just so much better! A sharp blade really helps. As soon as the blade gets dull you really need to change it

leakyroof · « **Reply #196 on:** October 13, 2016, 04:46 PM »

Quote from: Brice Burrell on October 06, 2016, 08:41 AM

Quote from: Arvid on October 06, 2016, 12:42 AM
kss60cc being delivered tomorrow. I will let you all know what i think of it. I will review it in the review other tools section.

I look forward to your review.

I agree, looks like an interesting saw, Mafell also offers clamps to work with the rail/your workpiece.

Lbob131 · « **Reply #197 on:** October 13, 2016, 05:58 PM »

OK. 240v will be fine. I think the 240v machines have more power anyway.

An on site rcd should leave it safe. Though mostly the saw will be used in the workshop where we make big trusses.

There was a lad the other day using a hitachi router with a frayed lead and he took the full blast of the 240v when he grabbed it.

Lbob131 · « **Reply #198 on:** October 28, 2016, 02:39 PM »

Just took delivery of the HK 85 EB and FSK 420 today.

Plus 2 spare blades.

Will be putting it through its paces tomorrow cutting large 11" x 3" to make trusses.
First impressions certainly doesn't disappoint after cutting some pine.

Very smooth on the rail and accurate. Tested a 45 degree cut with a digital angle degree finder and it was 100% accurate at 45 degrees.
Its like having a SCMS at your finger tips. Very impressive piece of engineering. A game changer in fact!

Xoncention · « **Reply #199 on:** October 28, 2016, 06:05 PM »

Quote from: Lbob131 on October 13, 2016, 05:58 PM

OK. 240v will be fine. I think the 240v machines have more power anyway.

An on site rcd should leave it safe. Though mostly the saw will be used in the workshop where we make big trusses.

There was a lad the other day using a hitachi router with a frayed lead and he took the full blast of the 240v when he grabbed it.

It is a requirement in Australia to have all corded tools used on construction sites to be checked quarterly and tagged for electrical safety. It is also a requirement that if at any time there is any damaged cable, that tool be removed from site and repaired and re-tagged. We also have to connect all power tools through an RCD just in case someone cuts a cord. If you have quite a few tools (guilty as charged) it can be an expensive process to keep your tools compliant. That being said, there is no cost that is not worth paying if at the end of the day everyone leaves site alive. I have a license to test and tag tools, so other than time and labels, there is little cost to me.

Lbob131 · « **Reply #200 on:** October 29, 2016, 05:51 PM »

Very happy with the HK 85.

Doing full depth cuts through stacks of plywood and various angle cuts on 3" x 3" and 6" x 3" and the machine proved itself a work horse. I found it very fast to change between straight and angle cuts. The scale very well laid out.

The scms operator was made redundant today.

Though he wasn't complaining as it was quite a traisp back and forward. Says he is interested in buying the hk 85.
Other guys on the floor I noticed were gazing in wonderment at what I was using. No time for personal demos though as we were under the gun to get 16 big trusses out.

pixelated · « **Reply #201 on:** November 05, 2016, 09:37 PM »

I took my plunge today with an HK 55 + the FSK.
We have various projects going, one of them being cutting fitting some window trim for a couple of newly replaced windows.
Just for the heck of it I set up on the vac with my sys MFT holding the work in the corner of the kitchen to test the dust collection.
I was amazed that there were just a few flakes of sawdust directly below where I was cutting on the front of the vac.
The cuts were beautifully smooth, but I managed to do one cut off square, which I chalk up to learning.

My only negatives are that the FSK 420 seems a little ungainly for cutting 4 inch wide stock, and the angle stops are thicker than 1 inch (3/4) stock. Elevating the workpieces on some scrap resolved that, and I expect I'll get used to working with the FSK.

Overall, I'm very pleased.

JD2720 · « **Reply #202 on:** November 05, 2016, 09:52 PM »

Quote from: pixelated on November 05, 2016, 09:37 PM

I took my plunge today with an HK 55 + the FSK.
We have various projects going, one of them being cutting fitting some window trim for a couple of newly replaced windows.
Just for the heck of it I set up on the vac with my sys MFT holding the work in the corner of the kitchen to test the dust collection.
I was amazed that there were just a few flakes of sawdust directly below where I was cutting on the front of the vac.
The cuts were beautifully smooth, but I managed to do one cut off square, which I chalk up to learning.

My only negatives are that the FSK 420 seems a little ungainly for cutting 4 inch wide stock, and the angle stops are thicker than 1 inch (3/4) stock. Elevating the workpieces on some scrap resolved that, and I expect I'll get used to working with the FSK.

Overall, I'm very pleased.

Thank you for this review. This helps in my decision.

Samo · « **Reply #203 on:** November 05, 2016, 09:53 PM »

Quote from: pixelated on November 05, 2016, 09:37 PM

I took my plunge today with an HK 55 + the FSK.

My only negatives are that the FSK 420 seems a little ungainly for cutting 4 inch wide stock, and the angle stops are thicker than 1 inch (3/4) stock. Elevating the workpieces on some scrap resolved that, and I expect I'll get used to working with the FSK.

Overall, I'm very pleased.

I wish they offered the tool with other rail options, still deciding on which saw? Cordless or not, but I know I will need the FSK 250 to start.

pixelated · « **Reply #204 on:** November 05, 2016, 10:15 PM »

Quote from: Samo on November 05, 2016, 09:53 PM

I wish they offered the tool with other rail options, still deciding on which saw? Cordless or not, but I know I will need the FSK 250 to start.

Agreed, I think a discount on (any) track purchased with the saw along the lines of the discounts offered for the vacs and MFT's would be a better arrangement. I probably would have chosen an FSK 250 had it been cost-effective. I expect that most of my use will be for either work a lot smaller than the 420's capacity or else much larger using an FS rail.

Lbob131 · « **Reply #205 on:** November 06, 2016, 07:19 AM »

I'm still in awe of the hk 85.
Single handed use is so easy. Just glides across the cut.
And plenty of room for big fat fingers.

Samo · « **Reply #206 on:** November 06, 2016, 11:15 AM »

Would buy the HK 85 in a heartbeat!

Festool is so slow.....

tjbnwi · « **Reply #207 on:** November 08, 2016, 04:55 PM »

I've had the opportunity to use the HK-55 for the last 10 days or so (the HK belongs to a contractor I work with from time to time).

Below is my opinion of the saw, take it as that, just one mans opinion...

As a framing saw, the HK is limited. Cutting a bevel in 2x material the saw struggles badly. I'm not talking 45º bevels for jack rafters, any bevel more than 15º it does not do well in framing material. Angle and square cuts are slower than with my worm drive saw.

As what I've heard referred to as a "second fix", the HK-55 does very well----as long as the material is 1" or thinner. Bevels through 1x and 5/4 cedar the HK 55 works very well. Miters are very accurate, for exterior trim work, this could be the only saw you may need.

I wish the HK-85 was available here, I have a feeling it would be a very good framing saw.

Tom

Samo · « **Reply #208 on:** November 09, 2016, 10:19 AM »

Quote from: tjbnwi on November 08, 2016, 04:55 PM

As a framing saw, the HK is limited. Cutting a bevel in 2x material the saw struggles badly. I'm not talking 45º bevels for jack rafters, any bevel more than 15º it does not do well in framing material. Angle and square cuts are slower than with my worm drive saw.

That blows

ScotF · « **Reply #209 on:** November 13, 2016, 01:42 AM »

The red brand offers the 80 or 85 capacity and it works very well.