Author Topic: HKC 55 EB review (Read 130099 times)

GhostFist · « **Reply #150 on:** September 20, 2016, 09:06 AM »

Like two strokes of a block plane. We're talking framing here sheesh.

tjbnwi · « **Reply #151 on:** September 20, 2016, 09:17 AM »

Quote from: rst on September 20, 2016, 07:17 AM

Despite my not probably not really ever needing to cut a vertical 45% 2X4, I tried it last night...didn't need a chisel, just ran my razor knife over the nub...much ado about not much!

Do that 60 times on a hip roof. Waste of time.

That said, I will be getting the HK, just don't know which one yet.

Tom

rst · « **Reply #152 on:** September 20, 2016, 09:36 AM »

Who cuts 60 angled rafters up on the roof? It's not meant to replace a chopsaw. If your up on the roof cutting angled rafters, the time your spending keeping your saw on line is certainly more than the quarter second trimming that nub.

Robert James Ross · « **Reply #153 on:** September 20, 2016, 09:50 AM »

It is funny reading this especially about all the different timber sizes I still walk into the builders merchant and ask for 100x50 and unless it is an old guy they look at me funny and tell me the only thing they have is 90x45. But the strange thing is when I try to buy some 50x50 I always ask for 2x2 and I am from NZ and we got rid of imperial back in 67.

But the best way to deal with the whole can it or can't do a beveled miter cut, is order trusses

tjbnwi · « **Reply #154 on:** September 20, 2016, 10:01 AM »

Quote from: rst on September 20, 2016, 09:36 AM

Who cuts 60 angled rafters up on the roof? It's not meant to replace a chopsaw. If your up on the roof cutting angled rafters, the time your spending keeping your saw on line is certainly more than the quarter second trimming that nub.

Anyone who cuts a roof. Each rafter can have up to 5 angle cuts. But thats not the issue, never said there was an issue with angled cuts.

Never cut a roof with less than 12 rafters (6 per side).

Beveled or compound cut---not angled

A simple hip roof will easily need 60 45º bevel cuts. Throw in a couple of valleys and let the fun begin.

Cut all the rafters on saw horses on the ground, then place them.

I don't use a chop/miter saw to cut a roof.

I don't think so...

Tom

Arvid · « **Reply #155 on:** September 20, 2016, 10:12 AM »

Quote from: tjbnwi on September 20, 2016, 10:01 AM

Quote from: rst on September 20, 2016, 09:36 AM
Who cuts 60 angled rafters up on the roof? It's not meant to replace a chopsaw. If your up on the roof cutting angled rafters, the time your spending keeping your saw on line is certainly more than the quarter second trimming that nub.

Anyone who cuts a roof. Each rafter can have up to 5 angle cuts. But thats not the issue, never said there was an issue with angled cuts.

Never cut a roof with less than 12 rafters (5 per side).

Beveled or compound cut---not angled

A simple hip roof will easily need 60 45º bevel cuts. Throw in a couple of valleys and let the fun begin.

Cut all the rafters on saw horses on the ground, then place them.

I don't use a chop/miter saw to cut a roof.

I don't think so...

Tom

What Tom said is accurate.
It's funny to hear guys chime in about cutting rafters who wouldn't know the first thing about cutting an entire house of rafters on a set of 16 foot long or longer saw horses. A simple small ranch house with a hip roof can easily have 60 jack rafters.

Lbob131 · « **Reply #156 on:** September 20, 2016, 12:44 PM »

Quote from: tjbnwi on September 19, 2016, 09:40 PM

Quote from: Michael Kellough on September 19, 2016, 05:52 PM
Brice, do you know if the TSC 55 is also a little shy of cutting 2x stuff at 45*.
Is suppose all the Festool 55 saws have the same capacity but I haven't tried that cut in so long (if ever, I'm not a framer) I just don't know...

I don't generally need that extra millimeter cut. For the occasions that I might, maybe someone will come up with an outboard (off the left side of the shoe) guide rail that will allow the saw to run directly on the stock. Hans?

The TS 55 will not cut cleanly threw 2x dimensional lumber. I tried it the other day when the HK issue was brought up.

It leaves the same nib as the HK.

Tom

Don't you mean 1 /1/2" actual?
Surely it will cut through 1 1/2" @ 90 degrees.

Or do you mean it won't cut through 1 1/2" @45 degrees?
All very confusing this topic.

Mafell and festool are European.
So surely it would cause less confusion if the sizes referred to are "actual sizes?

tjbnwi · « **Reply #157 on:** September 20, 2016, 12:53 PM »

Quote from: Lbob131 on September 20, 2016, 12:44 PM

Quote from: tjbnwi on September 19, 2016, 09:40 PM
Quote from: Michael Kellough on September 19, 2016, 05:52 PM
Brice, do you know if the TSC 55 is also a little shy of cutting 2x stuff at 45*.
Is suppose all the Festool 55 saws have the same capacity but I haven't tried that cut in so long (if ever, I'm not a framer) I just don't know...

I don't generally need that extra millimeter cut. For the occasions that I might, maybe someone will come up with an outboard (off the left side of the shoe) guide rail that will allow the saw to run directly on the stock. Hans?

The TS 55 will not cut cleanly threw 2x dimensional lumber. I tried it the other day when the HK issue was brought up.

It leaves the same nib as the HK.

Tom

Don't you mean 1 /1/2" actual?
Surely it will cut through 1 1/2" @ 90 degrees.

Or do you mean it won't cut through 1 1/2" @45 degrees?
All very confusing this topic.

Mafell and festool are European.
So surely it would cause less confusion if the sizes referred to are "actual sizes?

We call out lumber by its nominal size. A 2x4 is ordered will come as 1.5" x 3.5" unless it is ordered rough sawn.

Yes, I was referring to the HK not cleanly cutting through a 2x at 45º. Sorry for the confusion on the type of cut I was referencing.

I have no clue how to call out lumber by it's actual size (I know the sizes, my brain can't verbalize them or type them

). Way to old to relearn

To make it more confusing, 2x10 and larger lumber will be normally 3/4" small on the width instead of 1/2" small, thickness remains the same.

Tom

tjbnwi · « **Reply #158 on:** September 20, 2016, 01:23 PM »

It was mentioned that cutting a 45º bevel was not a common practice. Far more the 60 bevels in this one roof. Around here field cut hip roofs are common.

One rafter of many, yes the rafter is over 22' long. The LVL hips and valleys are 1.75" (x2) thick x 14" tall, longest one is just under 27'.

Front of the house "painted".

The roof survived this-less 3 broken rafter tails. Due to not being able to get close enough to the building, a 40 ton capacity crane would not lift one of the trees. It took a 100 ton capacity crane to get the last one off the roof.

Tom

Lbob131 · « **Reply #159 on:** September 20, 2016, 01:54 PM »

Quote from: tjbnwi on September 20, 2016, 12:53 PM

Quote from: Lbob131 on September 20, 2016, 12:44 PM
Quote from: tjbnwi on September 19, 2016, 09:40 PM
Quote from: Michael Kellough on September 19, 2016, 05:52 PM
Brice, do you know if the TSC 55 is also a little shy of cutting 2x stuff at 45*.
Is suppose all the Festool 55 saws have the same capacity but I haven't tried that cut in so long (if ever, I'm not a framer) I just don't know...

I don't generally need that extra millimeter cut. For the occasions that I might, maybe someone will come up with an outboard (off the left side of the shoe) guide rail that will allow the saw to run directly on the stock. Hans?

The TS 55 will not cut cleanly threw 2x dimensional lumber. I tried it the other day when the HK issue was brought up.

It leaves the same nib as the HK.

Tom

Don't you mean 1 /1/2" actual?
Surely it will cut through 1 1/2" @ 90 degrees.

Or do you mean it won't cut through 1 1/2" @45 degrees?
All very confusing this topic.

Mafell and festool are European.
So surely it would cause less confusion if the sizes referred to are "actual sizes?

We call out lumber by its nominal size. A 2x4 is ordered will come as 1.5" x 3.5" unless it is ordered rough sawn.

Yes, I was referring to the HK not cleanly cutting through a 2x at 45º. Sorry for the confusion on the type of cut I was referencing.

I have no clue how to call out lumber by it's actual size (I know the sizes, my brain can't verbalize them or type them ). Way to old to relearn

To make it more confusing, 2x10 and larger lumber will be normally 3/4" small on the width instead of 1/2" small, thickness remains the same.

Tom

None the wiser.
My TS55 can cut through 38mm on the rail @45 degrees. Which is the exact same as the KSS 400.

Lbob131 · « **Reply #160 on:** September 20, 2016, 01:59 PM »

Quote from: Arvid on September 20, 2016, 08:55 AM

Quote from: rst on September 20, 2016, 07:17 AM
Despite my not probably not really ever needing to cut a vertical 45% 2X4, I tried it last night...didn't need a chisel, just ran my razor knife over the nub...much ado about not much!

Finishing a cut with a razor knife or knocking off the lip with a chisel will get old fast.
I guess everybody here builds square porches and decks and hardly ever need to cut multiple beams at 45.
Basically it comes down to festool being a trim tool for guys with small hands and mafell geared more toward framers and timber framers.

Or Festool for the skilled cabinet makers - kitchen installers and Mafell for the rough work.

Lbob131 · « **Reply #161 on:** September 20, 2016, 02:29 PM »

Hilti have just launched the 21.6 volt SC 70W-A22 cordless circular saw.
It will chop 70mm @ 90 degrees and 51mm @ 45 degrees.
That means for you guys in America it will cut your dimensional 2 X lumber @45 degrees because its not really 2 inches thick at all.

Its some other size which is well below the 51mm thick capacity of the SC 70W-A22 when set to 45 degrees.

But Hilti don't seem to have cottoned on to these clever rail systems that mafell and festool are using.
Maybe that's the saw for you Arvid?

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #162 on:** September 20, 2016, 02:59 PM »

Quote from: Lbob131 on September 20, 2016, 01:54 PM

None the wiser.
My TS55 can cut through 38mm on the rail @45 degrees. Which is the exact same as the KSS 400.

Dude, is there some medication you can take to improve your memory?

Read your own reply #123.

Michael Kellough · « **Reply #163 on:** September 20, 2016, 03:03 PM »

Quote from: Lbob131 on September 20, 2016, 02:29 PM

Hilti have just launched the 21.6 volt SC 70W-A22 cordless circular saw.
It will chop 70mm @ 90 degrees and 51mm @ 45 degrees.
That means for you guys in America it will cut your dimensional 2 X lumber @45 degrees because its not really 2 inches thick at all.
Its some other size below 51mm thick.

But Hilti don't seem to have cottoned on to these clever rail systems that mafell and festool are using.
Maybe that's the saw for you Arvid?

Pay attention dude!

The Hilti UK site.

Okay, if you mean Hilti's rail is a "dumb" rail compared to the "clever recoil" rails of Mafell and Festool, I'll give you that. I don't think Hilti has the recoil rail yet.

A big reason this thread has gone on so long, to the point of deserving Svar"s comment, is that there are at least 2 parameters for at least two different saws being discussed (or argued about) and too few replies bother to specify which point they are addressing.

Svar · « **Reply #164 on:** September 20, 2016, 03:07 PM »

Here is the summary of this thread so far:

Brice Burrell · « **Reply #165 on:** September 20, 2016, 03:21 PM »

Quote from: Svar on September 20, 2016, 03:07 PM

Here is the summary of this thread so far:

leakyroof · « **Reply #166 on:** September 20, 2016, 03:37 PM »

Quote from: Cheese on September 19, 2016, 05:55 PM

Quote from: Lbob131 on September 19, 2016, 05:28 PM
Its so confusing.

Surely its 1 1/2" x 6"?

Yes it can be...

Just to add to this confusion, a 2x6 is actually 1 1/2" x 5 1/2". While a 2x8 is actually 1 1/2" x 7 1/4".

And you thought it was just our imperial measurements that were goofy.

Hah, good one......

Arvid · « **Reply #167 on:** September 20, 2016, 04:00 PM »

Quote from: Svar on September 20, 2016, 03:07 PM

Here is the summary of this thread so far:

feel free to move along then. many here are enjoying this discussion. if you don't like it you can ignore the thread.
We are not here for you. half the topics on here are beating a dead horse at some point to some people and others like to continue the discussion.

Lbob131 · « **Reply #168 on:** September 20, 2016, 04:10 PM »

Quote from: Michael Kellough on September 20, 2016, 02:59 PM

Quote from: Lbob131 on September 20, 2016, 01:54 PM

None the wiser.
My TS55 can cut through 38mm on the rail @45 degrees. Which is the exact same as the KSS 400.

Dude, is there some medication you can take to improve your memory?

Read your own reply #123.

My memory is fine thanks. The 40mm spec was from my "NMA Agencies LTD" catalogue which has a mafell section. Which is clearly wrong.
The 38mm spec is from the mafell website.
http://katalog.mafell.de/index.php?IdTreeGroup=12962&IdProduct=30956

Arvid · « **Reply #169 on:** September 21, 2016, 12:23 PM »

Looking into the mafell ks60cc.
Maybe a ks400 as well. I'll review them in the other brand tools forum.

Brice Burrell · « **Reply #170 on:** September 21, 2016, 04:51 PM »

I had a chance to use my new HKC 55 and the KSS 400 side by side today after work. I only spent maybe an hour making some rafters from 2x4 scraps and miscellaneous cuts . I'll need to spend more time with the tools to make a more comprehensive comparison that is fair to both saws.

Initial impressions of the HKC are positive. As I mentioned earlier in the thread I have fairly large hands and I didn't find the handle to be a knuckle buster. Also, battery life seemed pretty good. I made maybe 40-50 cuts in 2x4s (1 1/2"x3 1/2" or 38mmx89mm) and the battery gauge still had three of three bars.

When I get a chance to use the two together more I'll try to find some time to post my thoughts.

Tom Gensmer · « **Reply #171 on:** September 21, 2016, 06:04 PM »

I picked up a HK-55 today as well. I should have some time in the shop the next day or two, so I'll try to get some side-by-side pics and impressions of the HK-55 and the KSS-400.

Arvid · « **Reply #172 on:** September 21, 2016, 07:34 PM »

Quote from: Tom Gensmer on September 21, 2016, 06:04 PM

I picked up a HK-55 today as well. I should have some time in the shop the next day or two, so I'll try to get some side-by-side pics and impressions of the HK-55 and the KSS-400.

Looking forward to these reviews. Tell me what you think of the blade guard lever action.
I noticed the little spring and cable that raise the guard a little flimsy designed. Also noticed when raised half way or if raised slowly it did not always come back down in the closed position.
You can see how it works when you remove the blade.

rst · « **Reply #173 on:** September 21, 2016, 08:03 PM »

[ Specified attachment is not available ]I used my HKC today to cut stair stringers for my daughters deck. Fantastic

, I used the 420 rail set for one angle and the 670 for the other. I had it hooked to a 36mm hose and vac as I was on my back porch working. I had used two regular FS 800 rails with dogs under the rails for positioning for the last two sets of stairs I made...this was much quicker and switching between rails was a breeze.

leakyroof · « **Reply #174 on:** September 23, 2016, 09:38 AM »

Quote from: Brice Burrell on September 21, 2016, 04:51 PM

I had a chance to use my new HKC 55 and the KSS 400 side by side today after work. I only spent maybe an hour making some rafters from 2x4 scraps and miscellaneous cuts . I'll need to spend more time with the tools to make a more comprehensive comparison that is fair to both saws.

Initial impressions of the HKC are positive. As I mentioned earlier in the thread I have fairly large hands and I didn't find the handle to be a knuckle buster. Also, battery life seemed pretty good. I made maybe 40-50 cuts in 2x4s (1 1/2"x3 1/2" or 38mmx89mm) and the battery gauge still had three of three bars.

When I get a chance to use the two together more I'll try to find some time to post my thoughts.

I know I could probably get used to it, but I don't like the small knob that releases the Detent Lock on the left side of the Rails. I would rather see a spring loaded lever that's easier to use,. esp. if you've got gloves on. Minor thing, but that threaded knob just seems a bit fussy to use. Let us know what you think about that Rail detail Brice......

Cheese · « **Reply #175 on:** September 23, 2016, 12:00 PM »

Quote from: leakyroof on September 23, 2016, 09:38 AM

I know I could probably get used to it, but I don't like the small knob that releases the Detent Lock on the left side of the Rails. I would rather see a spring loaded lever that's easier to use,. esp. if you've got gloves on. Minor thing, but that threaded knob just seems a bit fussy to use.

The threaded knob is kind of fussy to use, because you are moving the detented stop with one hand while snugging down the screw with the other hand. However, I think it's something that you'll get used to over time, besides, you'll probably not be constantly changing angles but if you need to, I'd use 2 different rails as rst suggested. Like using one drill but swapping out one chuck for drilling and a 2nd chuck for fasteners.

Also, you do have to tighten the threaded knob at every angle setting because even if it's in a detent (every 15°) the smallest force against the rail will move the stop.

leakyroof · « **Reply #176 on:** September 23, 2016, 12:59 PM »

Quote from: Cheese on September 23, 2016, 12:00 PM

Quote from: leakyroof on September 23, 2016, 09:38 AM
I know I could probably get used to it, but I don't like the small knob that releases the Detent Lock on the left side of the Rails. I would rather see a spring loaded lever that's easier to use,. esp. if you've got gloves on. Minor thing, but that threaded knob just seems a bit fussy to use.

The threaded knob is kind of fussy to use, because you are moving the detented stop with one hand while snugging down the screw with the other hand. However, I think it's something that you'll get used to over time, besides, you'll probably not be constantly changing angles but if you need to, I'd use 2 different rails as rst suggested. Like using one drill but swapping out one chuck for drilling and a 2nd chuck for fasteners.

Also, you do have to tighten the threaded knob at every angle setting because even if it's in a detent (every 15°) the smallest force against the rail will move the stop.

. Good thoughts, thanks @Cheese

jimbo51 · « **Reply #177 on:** September 26, 2016, 10:21 AM »

The cordless HKC 55 is perfect for framing, decking, flooring, roofing or other work when you don't want to worry about cords or plugs. It's the right tool when you need more time and less hassle. from Facebook today.

How is it that a "perfect" saw cannot make the cuts described ad nauseum in above comments? I would post a comment on Facebook but it would likely baffle most of my friends.

Lbob131 · « **Reply #178 on:** September 26, 2016, 02:44 PM »

There's no such thing as a perfect saw.
Festool is good. But so is mafell and hilti.

insurroundsound · « **Reply #179 on:** September 26, 2016, 03:29 PM »

looking forward to receiving my new HKC55 in the next couple of days...i'm an audio video installer, so the concerns about the compound-cut limitation on 2x doesn't bother me at all....i'll never have a need for that, but totally understand the concerns by some of the framers...to be honest, most of my needs will be for putting up blocking for TVs, light framing for exhaust fans, etc...probably overkill like a lot of other festool items, but the convenience and speed of the unit is appealing to me....and I'm already committed to the tool line-up and systainer system.

I have a TS55/MFT combo at home, but who wants to take that to a jobsite for the occasional rough cut?...i think the HKC55 should be fine for me. I'll have a chance to put it to use pretty soon for some under-floor subwoofer platforms we need to build for a current project.