Author Topic: HKC 55 EB review  (Read 127248 times)

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Offline GhostFist

  • Posts: 1556
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #150 on: September 20, 2016, 09:06 AM »
Like two strokes of a block plane. We're talking framing here sheesh.

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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6066
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #151 on: September 20, 2016, 09:17 AM »
Despite my not probably not really ever needing to cut a vertical 45% 2X4, I tried it last night...didn't need a chisel, just ran my razor knife over the nub...much ado about not much!  [smile]

Do that 60 times on a hip roof. Waste of time.

That said, I will be getting the HK, just don't know which one yet.

Tom

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2227
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #152 on: September 20, 2016, 09:36 AM »
Who cuts 60 angled rafters up on the roof?  It's not meant to replace a chopsaw.  If your up on the roof cutting angled rafters, the time your spending keeping your saw on line is certainly more than the quarter second trimming that nub.

Offline Robert James Ross

  • Posts: 21
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #153 on: September 20, 2016, 09:50 AM »
It is funny reading this especially about all the different timber sizes I still walk into the builders merchant and ask for 100x50 and unless it is an old guy they look at me funny  and tell me the only thing they have is 90x45. But the strange thing is when I try to buy some 50x50 I always ask for 2x2 and I am from NZ and we got rid of imperial back in 67.

But the best way to deal with the whole can it or can't do a beveled miter cut, is order trusses

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6066
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #154 on: September 20, 2016, 10:01 AM »
Who cuts 60 angled rafters up on the roof?  It's not meant to replace a chopsaw.  If your up on the roof cutting angled rafters, the time your spending keeping your saw on line is certainly more than the quarter second trimming that nub.

Anyone who cuts a roof. Each rafter can have up to 5 angle cuts. But thats not the issue, never said there was an issue with angled cuts.

Never cut a roof with less than 12 rafters (6 per side).

Beveled or compound cut---not angled

A simple hip roof will easily need 60 45º bevel cuts. Throw in a couple of valleys and let the fun begin.

Cut all the rafters on saw horses on the ground, then place them.

I don't use a chop/miter saw to cut a roof.

I don't think so...

Tom
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 10:32 AM by tjbnwi »

Offline Arvid

  • Posts: 82
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #155 on: September 20, 2016, 10:12 AM »
Who cuts 60 angled rafters up on the roof?  It's not meant to replace a chopsaw.  If your up on the roof cutting angled rafters, the time your spending keeping your saw on line is certainly more than the quarter second trimming that nub.

Anyone who cuts a roof. Each rafter can have up to 5 angle cuts. But thats not the issue, never said there was an issue with angled cuts.

Never cut a roof with less than 12 rafters (5 per side).

Beveled or compound cut---not angled

A simple hip roof will easily need 60 45º bevel cuts. Throw in a couple of valleys and let the fun begin.

Cut all the rafters on saw horses on the ground, then place them.

I don't use a chop/miter saw to cut a roof.

I don't think so...

Tom

What Tom said is accurate.
It's funny to hear guys chime in about cutting rafters who wouldn't know the first thing about cutting an entire house of rafters on a set of 16 foot long or longer saw horses. A simple small ranch house with a hip roof can easily have 60 jack rafters.


Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 469
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #156 on: September 20, 2016, 12:44 PM »
Brice, do you know if the TSC 55 is also a little shy of cutting 2x stuff at 45*.
Is suppose all the Festool 55 saws have the same capacity but I haven't tried that cut in so long (if ever, I'm not a framer) I just don't know...

I don't generally need that extra millimeter cut. For the occasions that I might, maybe someone will come up with an outboard (off the left side of the shoe) guide rail that will allow the saw to run directly on the stock. Hans?

The TS 55 will not cut cleanly threw 2x dimensional lumber. I tried it the other day when the HK issue was brought up.

It leaves the same nib as the HK.

Tom

Don't you mean  1 /1/2" actual?
Surely it will  cut through   1 1/2" @ 90 degrees.

Or do you mean  it won't cut through  1 1/2" @45 degrees?
All very  confusing this topic.

Mafell and festool are European.
 So  surely it would cause less confusion  if  the sizes    referred to  are  "actual sizes?



« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 12:46 PM by Lbob131 »

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6066
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #157 on: September 20, 2016, 12:53 PM »
Brice, do you know if the TSC 55 is also a little shy of cutting 2x stuff at 45*.
Is suppose all the Festool 55 saws have the same capacity but I haven't tried that cut in so long (if ever, I'm not a framer) I just don't know...

I don't generally need that extra millimeter cut. For the occasions that I might, maybe someone will come up with an outboard (off the left side of the shoe) guide rail that will allow the saw to run directly on the stock. Hans?

The TS 55 will not cut cleanly threw 2x dimensional lumber. I tried it the other day when the HK issue was brought up.

It leaves the same nib as the HK.

Tom

Don't you mean  1 /1/2" actual?
Surely it will  cut through   1 1/2" @ 90 degrees.

Or do you mean  it won't cut through  1 1/2" @45 degrees?
All very  confusing this topic.

Mafell and festool are European.
 So  surely it would cause less confusion  if  the sizes    referred to  are  "actual sizes?

We call out lumber by its nominal size. A 2x4 is ordered will come as 1.5" x 3.5" unless it is ordered rough sawn.

Yes, I was referring to the HK not cleanly cutting through a 2x at 45º. Sorry for the confusion on the type of cut I was referencing.

I have no clue how to call out lumber by it's actual size (I know the sizes, my brain can't verbalize them or type them [eek]). Way to old to relearn [big grin]

To make it more confusing, 2x10 and larger lumber will be normally 3/4" small on the width instead of 1/2" small, thickness remains the same.

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6066
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #158 on: September 20, 2016, 01:23 PM »
It was mentioned that cutting a 45º bevel was not a common practice. Far more the 60 bevels in this one roof. Around here field cut hip roofs are common.

251041-0


One rafter of many, yes the rafter is over 22' long. The LVL hips and valleys are 1.75" (x2) thick x 14" tall, longest one is just under 27'.

251043-1

Front of the house "painted".

251045-2

The roof survived this-less 3 broken rafter tails. Due to not being able to get close enough to the building, a 40 ton capacity crane would not lift one of the trees. It took a 100 ton capacity crane to get the last one off the roof.

251047-3251049-4251051-5

Tom

Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 469
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #159 on: September 20, 2016, 01:54 PM »
Brice, do you know if the TSC 55 is also a little shy of cutting 2x stuff at 45*.
Is suppose all the Festool 55 saws have the same capacity but I haven't tried that cut in so long (if ever, I'm not a framer) I just don't know...

I don't generally need that extra millimeter cut. For the occasions that I might, maybe someone will come up with an outboard (off the left side of the shoe) guide rail that will allow the saw to run directly on the stock. Hans?

The TS 55 will not cut cleanly threw 2x dimensional lumber. I tried it the other day when the HK issue was brought up.

It leaves the same nib as the HK.

Tom

Don't you mean  1 /1/2" actual?
Surely it will  cut through   1 1/2" @ 90 degrees.

Or do you mean  it won't cut through  1 1/2" @45 degrees?
All very  confusing this topic.

Mafell and festool are European.
 So  surely it would cause less confusion  if  the sizes    referred to  are  "actual sizes?

We call out lumber by its nominal size. A 2x4 is ordered will come as 1.5" x 3.5" unless it is ordered rough sawn.

Yes, I was referring to the HK not cleanly cutting through a 2x at 45º. Sorry for the confusion on the type of cut I was referencing.

I have no clue how to call out lumber by it's actual size (I know the sizes, my brain can't verbalize them or type them [eek]). Way to old to relearn [big grin]

To make it more confusing, 2x10 and larger lumber will be normally 3/4" small on the width instead of 1/2" small, thickness remains the same.

Tom

None the wiser.
My TS55  can cut through  38mm  on the rail @45 degrees. Which is the  exact  same  as the KSS 400.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 02:21 PM by Lbob131 »

Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 469
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #160 on: September 20, 2016, 01:59 PM »
Despite my not probably not really ever needing to cut a vertical 45% 2X4, I tried it last night...didn't need a chisel, just ran my razor knife over the nub...much ado about not much!  [smile]

Finishing a cut with a razor knife or knocking off the lip with a chisel will get old fast.
I guess everybody here builds square porches and decks and hardly ever need to cut multiple beams at 45.
Basically it comes down to festool being a trim tool for guys with small hands and mafell geared more toward framers and timber framers.

Or Festool   for the skilled cabinet makers - kitchen installers   and Mafell  for the  rough work. [big grin]

Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 469
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #161 on: September 20, 2016, 02:29 PM »
Hilti have just launched  the  21.6 volt  SC 70W-A22  cordless circular saw.
It will chop  70mm @ 90 degrees  and 51mm   @  45 degrees.
That means  for you guys in America  it will cut your  dimensional 2 X  lumber @45 degrees  because  its not really  2 inches thick at all.  [big grin]
Its some other size  which is  well below  the  51mm  thick  capacity  of the SC 70W-A22  when set to 45 degrees.  [wink] 8)

But Hilti don't seem  to have cottoned  on to these  clever rail systems  that  mafell and festool are using.
Maybe that's the saw for you Arvid?
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 05:21 PM by Lbob131 »

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4165
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #162 on: September 20, 2016, 02:59 PM »

None the wiser.
My TS55  can cut through  38mm  on the rail @45 degrees. Which is the  exact  same  as the KSS 400.

Dude, is there some medication you can take to improve your memory?

Read your own reply #123.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4165
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #163 on: September 20, 2016, 03:03 PM »
Hilti have just launched  the  21.6 volt  SC 70W-A22  cordless circular saw.
It will chop  70mm @ 90 degrees  and 51mm   @  45 degrees.
That means  for you guys in America  it will cut your  dimensional 2 X  lumber @45 degrees  because  its not really  2 inches thick at all.  [big grin]
Its some other size  below 51mm  thick.  [wink] 8)

But Hilti don't seem  to have cottoned  on to these  clever rail systems  that  mafell and festool are using.
Maybe that's the saw for you Arvid?

Pay attention dude!


The Hilti UK site.


Okay, if you mean Hilti's rail is a "dumb" rail compared to the "clever recoil" rails of Mafell and Festool, I'll give you that. I don't think Hilti has the recoil rail yet.

A big reason this thread has gone on so long, to the point of deserving Svar"s comment, is that there are at least 2 parameters for at least two different saws being discussed (or argued about) and too few replies bother to specify which point they are addressing.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 03:16 PM by Michael Kellough »

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1805
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #164 on: September 20, 2016, 03:07 PM »
Here is the summary of this thread so far:
 [dead horse] [dead horse] [dead horse]

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7363
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #165 on: September 20, 2016, 03:21 PM »
Here is the summary of this thread so far:
 [dead horse] [dead horse] [dead horse]

[big grin]
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2280
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #166 on: September 20, 2016, 03:37 PM »
Its so confusing.

Surely its  1 1/2" x 6"?

Yes it can be... [eek]

Just to add to this confusion, a 2x6 is actually 1 1/2" x 5 1/2". While a 2x8 is actually 1 1/2" x 7 1/4".

And you thought it was just our imperial measurements that were goofy.  [smile]
   Hah, good one...... [embarassed] [embarassed] [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline Arvid

  • Posts: 82
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #167 on: September 20, 2016, 04:00 PM »
Here is the summary of this thread so far:
 [dead horse] [dead horse] [dead horse]

feel free to move along then. many here are enjoying this discussion. if you don't like it you can ignore the thread.
We are not here for you. half the topics on here are beating a dead horse at some point to some people and others like to continue the discussion. 

Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 469
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #168 on: September 20, 2016, 04:10 PM »

None the wiser.
My TS55  can cut through  38mm  on the rail @45 degrees. Which is the  exact  same  as the KSS 400.

Dude, is there some medication you can take to improve your memory?

Read your own reply #123.

My  memory is fine thanks.  The 40mm  spec was from  my "NMA Agencies  LTD"  catalogue which  has a mafell section. Which is clearly wrong.
The 38mm spec is from the mafell website.
http://katalog.mafell.de/index.php?IdTreeGroup=12962&IdProduct=30956
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 04:12 PM by Lbob131 »

Offline Arvid

  • Posts: 82
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #169 on: September 21, 2016, 12:23 PM »
Looking into the mafell ks60cc.
Maybe a ks400 as well. I'll review them in the other brand tools forum.

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7363
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #170 on: September 21, 2016, 04:51 PM »
I had a chance to use my new HKC 55 and the KSS 400 side by side today after work.  I only spent maybe an hour making some rafters from 2x4 scraps and miscellaneous cuts .  I'll need to spend more time with the tools to make a more comprehensive comparison that is fair to both saws.

Initial impressions of the HKC are positive.  As I mentioned earlier in the thread I have fairly large hands and I didn't find the handle to be a knuckle buster.  Also, battery life seemed pretty good.  I made maybe 40-50 cuts in 2x4s (1 1/2"x3 1/2" or 38mmx89mm) and the battery gauge still had three of three bars.

When I get a chance to use the two together more I'll try to find some time to post my thoughts.     
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 688
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #171 on: September 21, 2016, 06:04 PM »
I picked up a HK-55 today as well. I should have some time in the shop the next day or two, so I'll try to get some side-by-side pics and impressions of the HK-55 and the KSS-400.

CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers

Offline Arvid

  • Posts: 82
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #172 on: September 21, 2016, 07:34 PM »
I picked up a HK-55 today as well. I should have some time in the shop the next day or two, so I'll try to get some side-by-side pics and impressions of the HK-55 and the KSS-400.

Looking forward to these reviews. Tell me what you think of the blade guard lever action.
I noticed the little spring and cable that raise the guard a little flimsy designed. Also noticed when raised half way or if raised slowly it did not always come back down in the closed position.
You can see how it works when you remove the blade.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2227
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #173 on: September 21, 2016, 08:03 PM »
[ Specified attachment is not available ]I used my HKC today to cut stair stringers for my daughters deck.  Fantastic  [big grin], I used the 420 rail set for one angle and the 670 for the other.  I had it hooked to a 36mm hose and vac as I was on my back porch working.  I had used two  regular FS 800 rails with dogs under the rails for positioning for the last two sets of stairs I made...this was much quicker and switching between rails was a breeze. 
251138-1   251140-2
« Last Edit: September 21, 2016, 08:09 PM by rst »

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2280
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #174 on: September 23, 2016, 09:38 AM »
I had a chance to use my new HKC 55 and the KSS 400 side by side today after work.  I only spent maybe an hour making some rafters from 2x4 scraps and miscellaneous cuts .  I'll need to spend more time with the tools to make a more comprehensive comparison that is fair to both saws.

Initial impressions of the HKC are positive.  As I mentioned earlier in the thread I have fairly large hands and I didn't find the handle to be a knuckle buster.  Also, battery life seemed pretty good.  I made maybe 40-50 cuts in 2x4s (1 1/2"x3 1/2" or 38mmx89mm) and the battery gauge still had three of three bars.

When I get a chance to use the two together more I'll try to find some time to post my thoughts.     
   I know I could probably get used to it, but I don't like the small knob that releases the Detent Lock on the left side of the Rails. I would rather see a spring loaded lever that's easier to use,. esp. if you've got gloves on.  Minor thing, but that threaded knob just seems a bit fussy to use.  Let us know what you think about that Rail detail Brice...... [popcorn]
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6377
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #175 on: September 23, 2016, 12:00 PM »
I know I could probably get used to it, but I don't like the small knob that releases the Detent Lock on the left side of the Rails. I would rather see a spring loaded lever that's easier to use,. esp. if you've got gloves on.  Minor thing, but that threaded knob just seems a bit fussy to use. 

The threaded knob is kind of fussy to use, because you are moving the detented stop with one hand while snugging down the screw with the other hand. However, I think it's something that you'll get used to over time, besides, you'll probably not be constantly changing angles but if you need to, I'd use 2 different rails as rst suggested. Like using one drill but swapping out one chuck for drilling and a 2nd chuck for fasteners.

Also, you do have to tighten the threaded knob at every angle setting because even if it's in a detent (every 15°) the smallest force against the rail will move the stop. [tongue]

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2280
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #176 on: September 23, 2016, 12:59 PM »
I know I could probably get used to it, but I don't like the small knob that releases the Detent Lock on the left side of the Rails. I would rather see a spring loaded lever that's easier to use,. esp. if you've got gloves on.  Minor thing, but that threaded knob just seems a bit fussy to use. 

The threaded knob is kind of fussy to use, because you are moving the detented stop with one hand while snugging down the screw with the other hand. However, I think it's something that you'll get used to over time, besides, you'll probably not be constantly changing angles but if you need to, I'd use 2 different rails as rst suggested. Like using one drill but swapping out one chuck for drilling and a 2nd chuck for fasteners.

Also, you do have to tighten the threaded knob at every angle setting because even if it's in a detent (every 15°) the smallest force against the rail will move the stop. [tongue]
.  Good thoughts, thanks @Cheese
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline jimbo51

  • Posts: 464
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #177 on: September 26, 2016, 10:21 AM »
The cordless HKC 55 is perfect for framing, decking, flooring, roofing or other work when you don't want to worry about cords or plugs. It's the right tool when you need more time and less hassle.  from Facebook today.

How is it that a "perfect" saw cannot make the cuts described ad nauseum in above comments? I would post a comment on Facebook but it would likely baffle most of my friends.

Offline Lbob131

  • Posts: 469
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #178 on: September 26, 2016, 02:44 PM »
There's no such thing as a perfect saw.
Festool is good. But so is  mafell  and  hilti.

Offline insurroundsound

  • Posts: 45
Re: HKC 55 EB review
« Reply #179 on: September 26, 2016, 03:29 PM »
looking forward to receiving my new HKC55 in the next couple of days...i'm an audio video installer, so the concerns about the compound-cut limitation on 2x doesn't bother me at all....i'll never have a need for that, but totally understand the concerns by some of the framers...to be honest, most of my needs will be for putting up blocking for TVs, light framing for exhaust fans, etc...probably overkill like a lot of other festool items, but the convenience and speed of the unit is appealing to me....and I'm already committed to the tool line-up and systainer system.

I have a TS55/MFT combo at home, but who wants to take that to a jobsite for the occasional rough cut?...i think the HKC55 should be fine for me.  I'll have a chance to put it to use pretty soon for some under-floor subwoofer platforms we need to build for a current project.
--John
Proud, Poor Owner of TS55; MFT/3; CT22; OF1400EQ; CT Midi; ETS150/3; DF500+Domino Set; HKC55; MFK700; LR32 Set; ; RO150; TS55REQ; Pro5 LTD;  and a mix of other Festool green and Tanos blue.