Author Topic: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail  (Read 11809 times)

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Offline Svar

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2020, 01:29 PM »
Festool rail:
1) top t-track for accessories +++
2) light duty rail clamps useful elsewhere ++
3) wide, bench dogs don't interfere with saw base +++
4) glides smoother due to plastic strips +
5) better material grip +

Mafel rail:
1) better stock connector (scratch this one since TSO product came out) ++
2) second track for clamping close to splinter guard +++
3) better splinter guard, easy replacement +

I really like second t-track on Mafell, but don't care about the rest.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 01:53 PM by Svar »

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Offline StanB

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  • I like building stuff with my hands.
Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2020, 08:59 PM »
Has anyone tried the metabo rails?

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Offline JimH2

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2020, 09:38 AM »
Festool rail:
1) top t-track for accessories +++

Help me out on this what accessories do you use for this other than a limit stop?

2) light duty rail clamps useful elsewhere ++
3) wide, bench dogs don't interfere with saw base +++
4) glides smoother due to plastic strips +
5) better material grip +

Mafel rail:
1) better stock connector (scratch this one since TSO product came out) ++
2) second track for clamping close to splinter guard +++
3) better splinter guard, easy replacement +

I really like second t-track on Mafell, but don't care about the rest.

Un-scratch 1) one as requiring two connectors and flipping over the rails negates any benefit.

I'll add the Mafell rails have usable cut lengths equal to the length of the rail whereas the Festool ones to do not, which is why you need 120" rail to rip a sheet of plywood.

In the Festool column add more rigidity. I have never damaged any of my Mafell rails, but they definitely are not as strong, for lack of a better word.

Offline Svar

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2020, 12:28 PM »
Help me out on this what accessories do you use for this other than a limit stop?
Dog rail clips, parallel guides, gecko suction handle, squares and protractors - that's just some commercially available. Bunch of other shop made useful stuff I've seen on this forum over the years.
I'll add the Mafell rails have usable cut lengths equal to the length of the rail whereas the Festool ones to do not, which is why you need 120" rail to rip a sheet of plywood.
It has nothing to do with rail. It's the saw base design. Festool rails also have usable cut lengths equal to the length of the rail if you use MT55 on them.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2020, 12:53 PM by Svar »

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2020, 12:36 PM »
Help me out on this what accessories do you use for this other than a limit stop?
Dog rail clips, parallel guides, gecko suction handle - that's just some commercially available. Bunch of other useful stuff I've seen on this forum over the years.
I'll add the Mafell rails have usable cut lengths equal to the length of the rail whereas the Festool ones to do not, which is why you need 120" rail to rip a sheet of plywood.
It has nothing to do with rail. It's the saw base design. Festool rails also have usable cut lengths equal to the length of the rail if you use MT55 on them.

Festool’s saws pre TS made better use of the track length. But the Festool rails in those days did not have the outboard upward T slot, a very useful addition.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2020, 12:49 PM by Michael Kellough »

Offline Svar

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2020, 12:44 PM »
Festool’s saws pre TS made better use of the track length.
This change in the saw base design (less contact area in the groove) decreased friction. One of the reason why FS saws glide better than Mafell.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2020, 12:47 PM by Svar »

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2020, 12:51 PM »
Festool’s saws pre TS made better use of the track length.
This change in the saw base design (less contact area in the groove) decreased friction. One of the reason why FS saws glide better than Mafell.

Agree, but occasionally circumstances make me glad I still have my old ATF55.

Offline Svar

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2020, 01:10 PM »
Has anyone tried the metabo rails?
I have not, but they still owe me  [big grin]: https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-wish-list/new-festool-guide-rail-this-is-what-festool-should-do/msg497464

And why did they omit the second very useful t-track?

Offline mrB

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there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline StanB

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #39 on: July 22, 2020, 10:53 PM »
Thanks I missed that thread. Good input.
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Offline ScotF

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2020, 12:37 AM »
FWIW - Mafell rails are also ground square and straight on the edge opposite the anti-splinter strip - useful if guiding a jigsaw against the rail.

Online Cheese

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #41 on: July 24, 2020, 01:17 PM »
FWIW - Mafell rails are also ground square and straight on the edge opposite the anti-splinter strip - useful if guiding a jigsaw against the rail.

That'd certainly be a nice touch if that is true...just looked at both of my rails and I could not detect any grinding marks of flycutter/endmill marks on the edge. The surface finish appears to be the same as the rest of the rail.  [sad]

Offline Svar

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #42 on: July 24, 2020, 03:52 PM »
FWIW - Mafell rails are also ground square and straight on the edge opposite the anti-splinter strip - useful if guiding a jigsaw against the rail.
That'd certainly be a nice touch if that is true...just looked at both of my rails and I could not detect any grinding marks of flycutter/endmill marks on the edge. The surface finish appears to be the same as the rest of the rail.  [sad]
Could be ground and then anodized? Would that make sense?
Regardless, a good quality extrusion is straight enough as it is for any woodworking task.

Online Cheese

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #43 on: July 24, 2020, 09:17 PM »
Could be ground and then anodized? Would that make sense?
Regardless, a good quality extrusion is straight enough as it is for any woodworking task.

It would have to be ground/flycut, then bead blasted and then anodized. All of which is possible and maybe explains why the rail is so expensive compared to the Bosch rail. The surface finishes over the entire surface of the Mafell rail are all exactly the same.  [smile]

Don't know...just love the connector though.  [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

Offline ScotF

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #44 on: July 25, 2020, 01:41 AM »
I checked one of mine tonight and I stand corrected...don't think they are machined. Sorry for the misinformation!   [embarassed]

Still nice rails, though....Mafell and Bosch.

Offline tallgrass

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #45 on: July 25, 2020, 10:46 PM »
Ground? I seriously doubt that. Sound great but it makes no sense. Especially on a material as soft as aluminum. I checked my Festool  rails with a Starrett square. ALL of my rails seem dead on. Also if they were not, it would be painlessly easy to correct.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2020, 08:44 PM by tallgrass »

Offline yetihunter

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #46 on: July 28, 2020, 04:50 AM »
The only thing lacking in the Mafell rail is the lack of a TSO Guide Rail Square...however, I'm sure Hans @TSO Products is working on it as we speak.  [big grin]  [poke]  [big grin]

Hans came aboard the MUF a couple years back, tossing around the idea, ultimately he was pretty clear about not wanting to pursue it.

FC Tools makes the most praised model.

https://fctools.co.uk/product/fc-mafell-mf-rail-square

I own the Taiga and have no complaints.

https://www.taigatools.com/precision-rail-square-mafell-bosch.html

Apparently Benchdogs UK make one.

https://benchdogs.co.uk/products/benchdogs-rail-square-mafell-bosch


Offline yetihunter

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2020, 05:12 AM »
As a recent purchaser to the Bosch/Mafell rail (I bought a short length Bosch rail) for my newly acquired jigsaw. .I won't be moving my tools over. I like the features of the Festool rails too much. If the selling point is that the Mafell/Bosch rails link up easier, that's solved with aftermarket accessories for the Festool rails and is a moot point. I do like the Mafell/Bosch rails lean low profile feel but that's about it.

This is how I felt when I still owned sets of both.  There were virtually no aftermarket accessories for the Mafell rails for quite some time.  TBH, though, before Seneca and TSO got the ball rolling, there weren’t any Festool guide rail accessories for an almost equal amount of of time.  We’re looking at about a 2 year gap before people started copying those products and making them for Mafell/Bosch.  I agree: the Betterley product does it’s job.   I wouldn’t kick either out of bed but I’ve grown more partial toward the Mafell rails over time.

Offline yetihunter

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #48 on: July 28, 2020, 05:16 AM »
Has anyone tried the metabo rails?



No, but I’ve tried those Metabo rail saws.  You can have them, but you’ll have to ask my neighborhood waste management truck driver where he took them to.  😇

Offline Svar

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #49 on: July 28, 2020, 12:56 PM »
There were virtually no aftermarket accessories for the Mafell rails for quite some time...
There is still virtually none and it's not going to change. Simply because there is no place to attach the accessories.

Offline yetihunter

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #50 on: July 28, 2020, 03:08 PM »
There were virtually no aftermarket accessories for the Mafell rails for quite some time...
There is still virtually none and it's not going to change. Simply because there is no place to attach the accessories.

 😁

https://fctools.co.uk/product/parallel-guide

And the aforementioned three readily available squares.  What am I missing? 

I was going to post pics of my OF1010 sliding along a Mafell rail but this website has been having hiccups with photo uploads and so you’re just going to have to take my word for it.




« Last Edit: July 28, 2020, 03:25 PM by yetihunter »

Online Cheese

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #51 on: August 06, 2020, 12:14 AM »
The more I use the Mafell rails the more I like them. Just like what was previously mentioned, the MT 55 is so easy to change blades that you don't think twice about changing a saw blade...too easy peasy. Well the Mafell rails are in the same category. Join them, disconnect them, join them again, it's all so easy with the Mafell rail connector. And the MT 55 stores the rail tool on-board so it's always at the ready.

I've been cutting/ripping a lot off birds-eye maple lately and it's just so easy to add and subtract rails and change saw blades with the Mafell offering. I'd never go back to Festool and I still own the TSC 55 and an early TS 55. You really have to experience it for yourself.  [smile]

Offline ScotF

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #52 on: August 06, 2020, 12:22 AM »
I like both systems and will use both for the foreseeable future. The Festool rails stick to the surface better and I do like the green glide strips vs the metal on metal with the Mafell. I also like the anti-splinter insert for the offcut on the Festool and think it yields slightly better cuts vs the Mafell on certain plys - but it is negligible. The power of the Mafell and ease of blade change and better DC are what I really appreciate with the MT55 - same power as my TS75 in a lighter, smaller package - which is great. Clamping close to the cut line is also key for narrow stock.

It is good to have options and choices.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8167
Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #53 on: August 06, 2020, 02:00 AM »
The Festool rails stick to the surface better and I do like the green glide strips vs the metal on metal with the Mafell. I also like the anti-splinter insert for the offcut on the Festool and think it yields slightly better cuts vs the Mafell on certain plys - but it is negligible.

I'll readily give you that the Festool rails will allow both saws to move down the rails easier, significantly easier. However my splinter strips on my Festool rails have always been rather hacked up and look terrible. Consequently it's always an issue when trying to align them with pencil lines. The splinter strips on Mafell rails are always smooth and are vey easy to align on the pencil line.

I'll post something tomorrow about ripping narrow pieces on the Mafell rails.

Offline Svar

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #54 on: August 06, 2020, 02:19 AM »
However my splinter strips on my Festool rails have always been rather hacked up and look terrible. Consequently it's always an issue when trying to align them with pencil lines. The splinter strips on Mafell rails are always smooth and are vey easy to align on the pencil line.
Contrasting color sure helps, but how hacked up they are is simply a function of amount of use.

Offline thudchkr

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #55 on: August 06, 2020, 06:23 AM »
However my splinter strips on my Festool rails have always been rather hacked up and look terrible. Consequently it's always an issue when trying to align them with pencil lines. The splinter strips on Mafell rails are always smooth and are vey easy to align on the pencil line.
Contrasting color sure helps, but how hacked up they are is simply a function of amount of use.

I agree with Cheese on this. The splinter strip on the Mafell rail retains it’s edge much better than the Festool offering. I don’t trust my Festool rails to be spot on when I align my marks to the exact edge of the strip. Unless it’s a brand new strip on that specific rail, my cut is usually just beyond my marks because the edge hasn’t held up very well. This is not the case, however, with the Mafell rail. I have not changed the strip on any of my rails and they all continue to cut right at the edge of the installed strip.

I like Cheese’s “hacked up” comment. It’s how I think of my edges on “my” Festool rails.

The Mafell rails get tuned for the precision cuts nowadays.  Not so much on the Festools.
Clint

Online Cheese

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #56 on: August 06, 2020, 10:35 AM »
Yesterday I needed to cut some drawer fronts but I was having difficulty sliding the Mafell clamps into the forward hold-down slot on the Mafell rail.

Chased it down to this culprit.



When they punched the rails for whatever reason, a very small burr was left on the underside and prevented the clamps from sliding on easily.



Just use a small flat Nicholson file on the underside of the slot. It doesn't take much. Both ends of the 2 rails had this issue although the RH end was always easier to slide on than the LH end.



Online Cheese

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #57 on: August 07, 2020, 11:27 AM »
This update segues nicely with a previous post that dealt with the need/use of Starrett double squares.

So, I needed to rip 6 drawer fronts to the proper width. They came from 6 different boards that were different widths. All had previously been run through the thickness planer.

I wanted to come up with a method that would accurately cut each different width board to the proper width and I wanted it to be repeatable as the drawer fronts will be next to each other with just about 1" to spare.

I decided to register off of the rear of the Mafell rail using a pair of Starrett double squares set to the same distance.






The rear board behind the double squares is just to keep the squares in place as you move the rail in position to touch each square. Without the rear board the double squares will move because nothing restrains them, the rear board being held by your hand does the restraining and keeps the squares nicely in place.






Make sure you clamp the Mafell rail as it moves easier than the Festool rail because of its narrow anti-skid strips.
Here's the result, 5 boards exactly the same width while the 6th board is 1/2 mm narrower on one end only for about 1" in length. Don't know what happened there... [eek]  but I'll take it and make sure that drawer front is used on an end.


« Last Edit: August 07, 2020, 11:30 AM by Cheese »

Offline Blues

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #58 on: August 07, 2020, 03:51 PM »
Recently i bought the Mafell Aerofix and am loving it.  Takes a little bit of getting used to it.  Like once you position the rail, have to start the saw so the vacuum kicks in providing the required clamping force giving it an additional second or so before you engage. But the joy of not using clamps makes the work flow go quick. Also the additional unit that's shipped let's you use it from the top allowing you to position the rail at floor level. 
What could have been better is that the bottom of the Aerofix could have been used as a reference for perfect 90°. Sadly it is not.
I was able to connect a larger rail and rip a full 4x8 sheet and the vacuum provided fantastic clamping all through the length of the sheet. It is a bit pricy. But you don't have to fiddle with clamps and all you do is position and cut. I am using my mft a lot less after i got the Aerofix.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2020, 03:55 PM by Blues »

Offline FestitaMakool

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Re: Festool FS Guide Rail vs Mafell F Guide Rail
« Reply #59 on: August 07, 2020, 04:15 PM »
Cheese, so.. now you say that I (we) need to buy 2-two double squares.. cause they work so well in pairs  [big grin]. Pocket friendly parallel guides they are!
How do you like the Mafell clamps? I see Bessey are now offering them with their name on them, I like the features..
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