I've been looking into buying into festool for awhile (currently bosch user) and I've seen festool do cordless tools which should always be used with dust extraction..  saws, sanders etc.

so seeing has festool has the proprietary "Plug it" connection so the vacuum hose and cable can be as one.. what exactly is the point in a cordless tool from festool? makes sense with other brands that don't have this feature (plug it) as you have to change cables.

thoughts? I'm I missing something? or are the cordless festools indeed pointless?

Cordless tools have come a long way over the last 40 odd years.

But they still have a long way to go, too.  Dust extraction is but one aspect of their inadequacies that are at last being tentatively addressed.

There will come a time when the majority of hand-held power tools will be cordless, integrated into system architecture, and capable of actually performing in a manner that truly rivals their mains powered alternatives.  That time is still some way off, it appears.

Manufacturers from the far east appear to lead in development & adoption of these new technologies.

I'm not sure I'm getting the point of your post?

Festool offers various tools, corded and cordless, various dust extraction hoses including those that are paired with a plug it cable - but usually the extractors come with regular hoses without the added plug it cable. Dust extractors also come with a regular outlet to connect any tool you want to, and have bluetooth functionality so you can pair the battery of your Festool cordless tool with the vacuum and use auto-start. On top of that, Festool offers a bluetooth remote that can be attached to the dust extractor's hose and start/stop the vacuum as well. Which is great for non-Festool cordless tools, and countless dust-extraction accessories.

So what makes you think Festool cordless tools are pointless? Is this a question related to attaching the hose, thinking if there's a hose there could be as well a cable?

From my experience, you still profit greatly from a cordless tool even when connected to a dust extraction hose. YMMV.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Hi Oliver,

my question is why would someone, lets say for example sake buy the cordless version of the ts55 when the corded version is quite a lot cheaper and has the same (if not more) mobility than the cordless version as the cable can be run in the vacuum hose's sleeve on the corded version..

I presume the cordless version is actually heavier? and less powerful?

does the Bluetooth do anything other than turn the vacuum on and off at tool start/stop?

Couldnt figure out a good answer for that very same question myself. So I dont own any Festool cordless tools

ROFL, people begged and screamed for cordless tools, and now they have them it's not good either?

Just accept we're not at once in a perfect world and in the mean time appreciate you get options.

Never worked on many building sites then eh?

ROFL, people begged and screamed for cordless tools, and now they have them it's not good either?

Just accept we're not at once in a perfect world and in the mean time appreciate you get options.

who did?

The point I was making was that tools that require dust extraction don't need to be cordless if its from Festool as their plug it cable makes connecting the tool just as fast as connecting the vacuum hose & faster than pairing Bluetooth battery's with a Bluetooth vacuum. (Cheaper/More Powerful/Less to go wrong) also

I thought this was a great question topic Monkeyclimber. I have a lot of festools in the shop but most are corded for exactly the reason you are pointing out. I am almost always going to use them with dust collection so what is the point in getting a cordless since I am always gonna have to plug in the CT.

I also have some real doubts about their expanded offerings lately. I feel like if you really want a spot in the job trailer with cordless tools they have to greatly expand their offerings. In our jobsite trailer there are no longer any corded tools. The final hold out up until the last few years were always the table saw and the compressor. Now both Milwaukee and Dewalt have excellent cordless options in both of those cases and the spread of battery powered nailers had already lessened the compressor issue. The reality is battery platform. When you are building out jobsite tools you really need to try and stay within one or two battery platforms because when you are talking about having 30 or 40 tools in the trailer and several dozen batteries you are running all the time, you are not going to have 5 different battery platforms in that trailer.

The festool stuff is nice but without a broader range at least including more of the basic tools in cordless such as sawsalls, and trim nailers and such it is hard for them to really edge into being a top competitor.

Now that being said, I am really excited to see them finally pushing into the cordless market and if they keep going in that direction by adding more of the expansion type tools and specialty tools in cordless I will be a quick adopter because their tools always seem to be worth the added price over the competition. I just need more offerings to justify buying deep into their platform.

We have a tens of thousands in their tools in the shop and I have tried to dip in the new cordless platform where it made sense in the work flow. Our shop layout is segmented and we typically rip our sheet goods lengthwise in a different part of the shop then where the dust collectors are. So I picked up a cordless ts55  and a 9 ft rail just for that task that lives in that area and in that case it made sense and has worked good. But the real appeal of cordless is site work. And for heavy adoption at least in my experience they need to expand the line to get real adoption. They don't need all the trade specific but at least some of the stuff that almost all the other main brands have, especially the wood working focused ones. Things that come to mind are a sawsall, trim router, small miter saw, planer, Cordless dust collector, and maybe a trim nailer. If I see them push into some of this, especially the sawsall, I am placing orders.

Just a follow up, Festool needs to do a better job about bringing their whole catalog to the states. Bosch has the same problem and thats why you almost never see them on serious job sites here despite them making some really great tools.

Talking to folks that have worked in Europe and here one of the main differences in the US vs working in Europe is the space. It sounds like based on what I am hearing in Europe a lot of builders are constrained by space, often having to work out of vans or squeezing a lot of the tooling into cramped job sites. Vs here in the state many job sites I am on will usually have multiple large trailers camped at the jobs and usually most of the builders or general contractors will have large shops or yards where additional tools and equipment are stored and milling parts assembled or produced. All that space leads to an expectation of large tool inventories. Dewalt and milwaukee provide the depth of range for that. Even Ryobi dose. Festool needs to expand that range. I know they have tools that are not available in the states. If you want me to buy more of your stuff I wanna know there is more to buy, I only need so many drills and track saws.

The only Festool I would care to see cordless is the MFK since its the only festool I have that doesnt get hooked to any type of dust control.  Unfortunately it still wouldnt be enough to get me to buy one since I wouldnt invest in a another battery platform for just one tool and Im already heavily invested in another and I hate having different batteries and chargers.   

My question is why would someone, lets say for example sake buy the cordless version of the ts55 when the corded version is quite a lot cheaper and has the same (if not more) mobility than the cordless version as the cable can be run in the vacuum hose's sleeve on the corded version..

I presume the cordless version is actually heavier? and less powerful?

I use both the HKC and the TSC with bags which do quite well when they're attached. It's surprising how little dust gets away. The real issue is that they need to be emptied frequently but that just points out how good the dust bag works. Also the TSC seems to have more power than my TS 55...that TS needs to go down the road. 

I also like the cordless sanders for some applications, say drawer fronts or drawer interiors. In the past I used an ETS 125 & DTS 400 for those chores hooked to a CT 22. Everytime I switched sanders, I had to switch hoses. Then when I changed grits, I'd have to remove the hose again to vacuum the residual dust.
Now, I just keep bags on the ETSC 125 & DTSC 400 and swap between them constantly, no hose to remove & reinstall. When I want to change grits the vacuum is already freed up for use.

I will share my personal view on this with you.

I work around my house & garden and setup shop wherever I need to work. While I have a basement workshop, I mostly setup shop on the patio from March to October.

On the majority of "every day tasks" it would take me longer to run an extension cord, connect everything than it takes me to do the task with a cordless tool that comes out of it Systainer ready to go.

A TSC works flawless with the dust bag in its scope of delivery, is dust collection as good as when connected to a dust extractor? No. But good enough to not pose an unnecessary health risk in terms of escaping dust and good enough to not require hours of cleaning afterwards. So very often I only use the TSC with it's dust bag. Especially outdoors on my patio, in the shed, (...).

A sander's life can be immensely extended when used with a dust extractor as the "turbine blades" get cleaned better and the dust extractor's air stream cools down the internals additionally. The dust of a sander is finer than that of a TSC or Carvex so it's more airborne and therefore you are better off catching that with a dust extractor. That said, my first ever sanding with a Festool DTS was the whole outer shell of a shed - completely done with just the old style filter bags, relying solely on the "turbine" of the sander. And that wasn't a bad experience. Now, when I have to sand I lot, I always make sure the power cord of my sander forms a solid unit with my dust extraction hose by using velcro straps.

Problem solving tools like Carvex, OSC, (...) are often used in cramped spaces, cordless freedom is exactly what you want then. Yet they can be used with dust extraction when that makes sense, the surroundings ask for it - and there is enough space or when they are used for prolonged times.

I don't know how other people use their Carvex (jig saw), but when I use it for a longer time, I tend to use it like a "sportsman" who can play his game with both feet/hands. So one moment I'm cutting upside down with my right hand, then I might switch to my left hand and cut from above. I love not having to "worry" about a cord. And please believe me when I say it's a massive difference if its a power cord or a dust extraction hose thats attached to a tool. I have far less trouble with an attached dust extraction hose than with an attached power cord. And now that Festool offers the smooth hoses for quite some time, it got even easier to guide the hose and have it slide effortlessly on the workpiece or over rails.

Personally I wouldn't want it any other way - and I'm very happy with every cordless tool choice I made, be it Festool or any other make I use.

I don't have a crystal ball, I don't know about Festool's future - but let's just say - they probably will never be a "full range supplier" like Milwaukee, Bosch, DeWalt, (...). And especially not in terms of cordless tools.

I personally don't care if a tool is cheaper when it's corded, if price (to an extent) was a concern for me, I wouldn't buy Festool in first place. And probably also wouldn't buy cordless - as cordless always means keeping an inventory of batteries, replacing worn units and so on. It might even go as far as replacing a whole "system" because it's no longer supported and you don't have a trusted source for battery refurbishment.

I also don't own any tool where I'd say its "missing" power compared to a corded variant.

Again, YMMV. But to me, cordless does not exclude dust extraction per se. And a dust extraction hose does not bother to the same extent that power cords can/do - again, especially with the smooth, flexible hoses that are Festool's standard this day.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Quote from: six-point socket II on February 20, 2021, 08:33 PM

I'm not sure I'm getting the point of your post?

Festool offers various tools, corded and cordless, various dust extraction hoses including those that are paired with a plug it cable - but usually the extractors come with regular hoses without the added plug it cable. Dust extractors also come with a regular outlet to connect any tool you want to, and have bluetooth functionality so you can pair the battery of your Festool cordless tool with the vacuum and use auto-start. On top of that, Festool offers a bluetooth remote that can be attached to the dust extractor's hose and start/stop the vacuum as well. Which is great for non-Festool cordless tools, and countless dust-extraction accessories.

So what makes you think Festool cordless tools are pointless? Is this a question related to attaching the hose, thinking if there's a hose there could be as well a cable?

From my experience, you still profit greatly from a cordless tool even when connected to a dust extraction hose. YMMV.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Hi Oliver,

my question is why would someone, lets say for example sake buy the cordless version of the ts55 when the corded version is quite a lot cheaper and has the same (if not more) mobility than the cordless version as the cable can be run in the vacuum hose's sleeve on the corded version..

I presume the cordless version is actually heavier? and less powerful?

does the Bluetooth do anything other than turn the vacuum on and off at tool start/stop?

Well for me I have the TS55 and I'm happy with that. I use it with DC all the time and when it goes I'll buy the same again.

However, sometimes power isn't available or your working with a skeleton collection of tools at a location and being battery powered for a quick cut or a small job outside can be very handy.

So when the HK Saws were released I got the HKC. It is a great back up saw, and very useful to be able to perform track based cuts on the fly without power.

But then I got the FSK rail for it and started to prefer taking the HKC than the TS55 for certain jobs as the multi rail fi=unctions/options and free hand operation of the HKC were a benefit on certain jobs.

So when Festool released the bluetooth equipped Mini/Midi vacs having the option to use the HKC with Auto DC attached became a great option. . . .

Horses for courses as always. There are lots of options and you just need to decide what is right for you.

does the Bluetooth do anything other than turn the vacuum on and off at tool start/stop?

I think there's an app that'll track the power levels and whatnot. But this question opens the floor to the mind expanding utility of the Bluetooth Button.

 With the Button you get fast access to vacuum switching using cordless tools from any brand. I'll even use it with corded tools sometimes. Like say when I just need a quick cut but don't want to climb under the workbench to plug into the vacuum. I can plug into whatever outlet is closest to me and switch on the vac from the Button. The BT Button is the real "as One" answer in a way that the Plug-it really isn't. The Plug-it, even with the hose sleeve, is actually still a two part operation. Cordless tools make it one, but additionally (with dust bags,) they free us from the struggle and constraint of cords and hoses altogether. Freedom is the point. 

Quote from: monkeyclimber on February 20, 2021, 10:07 PM

does the Bluetooth do anything other than turn the vacuum on and off at tool start/stop?

I think there's an app that'll track the power levels and whatnot. But this question opens the floor to the mind expanding utility of the Bluetooth Button.

 With the Button you get fast access to vacuum switching using cordless tools from any brand. I'll even use it with corded tools sometimes. Like say when I just need a quick cut but don't want to climb under the workbench to plug into the vacuum. I can plug into whatever outlet is closest to me and switch on the vac from the Button. The BT Button is the real "as One" answer in a way that the Plug-it really isn't. The Plug-it, even with the hose sleeve, is actually still a two part operation. Cordless tools make it one, but additionally (with dust bags,) they free us from the struggle and constraint of cords and hoses altogether. Freedom is the point. 

I was using my "contractor cleaning kit" last night to sweep up the garage floor.  I still have the old Mini but I've seen enough demonstrations of "The Button" to know that it could easily turn something like the Mini into a nice little house cleaner, too; great for stairs.  Can't remember the video, but I saw someone had modified their Button with a Smart Watch armband to make it even more convenient to use than being attached around the end of the hose.

Serge had a good example of the utility of including bluetooth batteries with the 18V drills, not only for using some of the DC attachments for the drills (which admittedly I had never knew existed) but also for cross-compatibility with the other cordless Festools that can use the BT batteries.