Author Topic: festool cordless tools pointless?  (Read 10638 times)

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Offline monkeyclimber

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festool cordless tools pointless?
« on: February 20, 2021, 08:11 PM »
I've been looking into buying into festool for awhile (currently bosch user) and I've seen festool do cordless tools which should always be used with dust extraction..  saws, sanders etc.

so seeing has festool has the proprietary "Plug it" connection so the vacuum hose and cable can be as one.. what exactly is the point in a cordless tool from festool? makes sense with other brands that don't have this feature (plug it) as you have to change cables.

thoughts? I'm I missing something? or are the cordless festools indeed pointless? [blink]


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Offline six-point socket II

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Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2021, 08:33 PM »
I'm not sure I'm getting the point of your post?

Festool offers various tools, corded and cordless, various dust extraction hoses including those that are paired with a plug it cable - but usually the extractors come with regular hoses without the added plug it cable. Dust extractors also come with a regular outlet to connect any tool you want to, and have bluetooth functionality so you can pair the battery of your Festool cordless tool with the vacuum and use auto-start. On top of that, Festool offers a bluetooth remote that can be attached to the dust extractor's hose and start/stop the vacuum as well. Which is great for non-Festool cordless tools, and countless dust-extraction accessories.

So what makes you think Festool cordless tools are pointless? Is this a question related to attaching the hose, thinking if there's a hose there could be as well a cable?

From my experience, you still profit greatly from a cordless tool even when connected to a dust extraction hose. YMMV.

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline aloysius

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Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2021, 09:07 PM »
Cordless tools have come a long way over the last 40 odd years.

But they still have a long way to go, too.  Dust extraction is but one aspect of their inadequacies that are at last being tentatively addressed.

There will come a time when the majority of hand-held power tools will be cordless, integrated into system architecture, and capable of actually performing in a manner that truly rivals their mains powered alternatives.  That time is still some way off, it appears.

Manufacturers from the far east appear to lead in development & adoption of these new technologies.
FOG-wit since '95:  Some say since birth...

Offline DeformedTree

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Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2021, 09:39 PM »
Your question is really multi-part.

One of the major reasons for Festool stuff is dust collection, other European makes do similar for a lot of things, but your American brands tend not to, it's a major reason for me to buy Festool tools over similar tools from other brands.  So yes, with that, you have a hose attached to them.  Not sure there is any tool Festool makes without dust collection that I have much interest in.

So yes, once you hook a hose to it, you are connected, a battery tool looses a lot of its benefit at that point. But it is one less thing to fight. Managing both cord and hose at the same time can be a real PITA. Also things like sanders do have dust bags, not that they are something I find very useful.

So it comes back to how deep are you in the system or tools.  I like lots of folks have a ton of Milkwaukee M18 tools.  It makes buying even the most oddball M18 too a no brainer.  If you are someone who is going to go all in on Festool and have some of their tools in battery form, then getting battery versions of everything starts to make sense.

If I was starting over, and were to find festool had all the tools I need, I might go that route, but they simply are not going to have all the tools of other systems.  So then it means buying Festool Battery tools will be much more limited, which then you really have to make a choice on if it is worth it.

Some folks really value the Festool drills, so if you are all ready buying some of those, and have the batteries, then getting tools in battery versions that they offer makes sense. Yes you still have a hose, but now with the bluetooth batteries, things work seamless.

You really need to decide if you want to buy into a systems batteries, once you do, then battery versions of everything makes a lot of sense. Of course there will always be the flip side that a lot of the corded tools are basically going to be bulletproof and last forever, they also cost less. So for tools you might not use a lot, corded is a great answer.

If I was using the tools every day, I don't think I would blink at going battery. Sanding with just the hose would be easier for sure.

Offline monkeyclimber

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Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2021, 10:07 PM »
I'm not sure I'm getting the point of your post?

Festool offers various tools, corded and cordless, various dust extraction hoses including those that are paired with a plug it cable - but usually the extractors come with regular hoses without the added plug it cable. Dust extractors also come with a regular outlet to connect any tool you want to, and have bluetooth functionality so you can pair the battery of your Festool cordless tool with the vacuum and use auto-start. On top of that, Festool offers a bluetooth remote that can be attached to the dust extractor's hose and start/stop the vacuum as well. Which is great for non-Festool cordless tools, and countless dust-extraction accessories.

So what makes you think Festool cordless tools are pointless? Is this a question related to attaching the hose, thinking if there's a hose there could be as well a cable?

From my experience, you still profit greatly from a cordless tool even when connected to a dust extraction hose. YMMV.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Hi Oliver,

my question is why would someone, lets say for example sake buy the cordless version of the ts55 when the corded version is quite a lot cheaper and has the same (if not more) mobility than the cordless version as the cable can be run in the vacuum hose's sleeve on the corded version..

I presume the cordless version is actually heavier? and less powerful?

does the Bluetooth do anything other than turn the vacuum on and off at tool start/stop?


Offline SRSemenza

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Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2021, 11:16 PM »
Options.

     Some examples from my own site work -----

    I have a TSC55 (cordless) that goes to sites. I have power at sites about 100% of the time. But I make very few TS55 cuts on site. Sometimes one or two during an install. The dust bag collection on the saw is actually quite good. So in my case I generally can find a spot to lay out foam on the floor, possibly in an adjacent room or where ever to make that one saw cut. Having the cordless means I can just take the saw and go make the cut. without having to switch out tools or move the vac., or run a power cord.

     In the case of Vecturo not having the cord is just one less thing hanging up on you, or a piece of hardware, or under your knee, etc. when you have crawled into a cabinet to make some awkward cut to remove a piece or the like.

     Cordless sander is very nice when walking through a room or several rooms knocking off small nail or screw fill spots.

     In general sometimes it is just handy to be cordless with or without the vac hose.

Seth

Offline ben_r_

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Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2021, 11:35 PM »
Couldnt figure out a good answer for that very same question myself. So I dont own any Festool cordless tools :)
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Offline PreferrablyWood

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Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2021, 03:47 AM »
I read about the pros and cons of cordless versus corded tools with interest. it's a good point about the mismatch of a cordless tool with dust extractor. I think if Festool offered a cordless dust extractor it would be a better match.

Another solution is of course having the dust collection bag on the tool like som sanders offer as an accessory and the TSC and HKC, not as good as an external extractor but workable.

Finally many operations can be performed with handtools which often don't generate as much dust if you need mobility, I'm thinking here planing, hand sanding with an ergonomic block small touch ups. using a rasp, chiseling, drilling in softwood with a cordless drill doesn't generate annoying dust either.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2021, 03:53 AM by PreferrablyWood »
TS 55 R EBQ, Vecturo OSC, BHC SDS, RO 150, 850 HL E Planer, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, OF 2200, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set, 
Festool 18V HKC 55, TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus   TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3

Offline Alex

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Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2021, 03:52 AM »
ROFL, people begged and screamed for cordless tools, and now they have them it's not good either?

Just accept we're not at once in a perfect world and in the mean time appreciate you get options.

Offline FestitaMakool

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Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2021, 06:22 AM »
Festool are indeed trying.. to satisfy even the most demanding of us.
If one can’t decide, there’s an obvious place to start with Festool:  [big grin]

Corded
Cordless
With dust bag
Without dust bag
With dust collector
Without dust collector:

Sure, it can be used as a sanding block too.
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Offline demographic

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Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2021, 06:41 AM »
Never worked on many building sites then eh?

Offline promark747

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Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2021, 08:44 AM »
Quote from: monkeyclimber
I presume the cordless version is actually heavier? and less powerful?

I’ve seen many people say the cordless TSC55 is actually more powerful than the corded TS55.

I think the blade also stops faster (pretty much instantaneously) on the TSC.

Offline monkeyclimber

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Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2021, 08:50 AM »
ROFL, people begged and screamed for cordless tools, and now they have them it's not good either?

Just accept we're not at once in a perfect world and in the mean time appreciate you get options.

who did?

The point I was making was that tools that require dust extraction don't need to be cordless if its from Festool as their plug it cable makes connecting the tool just as fast as connecting the vacuum hose & faster than pairing Bluetooth battery's with a Bluetooth vacuum. (Cheaper/More Powerful/Less to go wrong) also




Offline FestitaMakool

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Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2021, 09:00 AM »
Never worked on many building sites then eh?

 [wink] Exactly, but yes I have done a few. That’s why I chose Festool to my “private” building site.
There’s not many Festool products I would have brought to a site, but a HK saw, and a very few other Festool’s.

The kit on a building site would probably consist of Makita, Milwaukee, DeWalt and Metabo. Just as Rob Robillard in A Concord Carpenter have chosen. Most FT would have stayed in the shop.
As the kit would have been banged around, and therefore would have been of the more rough character to get the job done. FT has not its strength (and pricing) to compete very well, at least not over here) They’re more of a specialists or enthusiasts brand on sites. In a kitchen/cabinet shop and so forth, yes, very common.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”

Offline MaineShop

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Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2021, 09:20 AM »
I thought this was a great question topic Monkeyclimber. I have a lot of festools in the shop but most are corded for exactly the reason you are pointing out. I am almost always going to use them with dust collection so what is the point in getting a cordless since I am always gonna have to plug in the CT.

I also have some real doubts about their expanded offerings lately. I feel like if you really want a spot in the job trailer with cordless tools they have to greatly expand their offerings. In our jobsite trailer there are no longer any corded tools. The final hold out up until the last few years were always the table saw and the compressor. Now both Milwaukee and Dewalt have excellent cordless options in both of those cases and the spread of battery powered nailers had already lessened the compressor issue. The reality is battery platform. When you are building out jobsite tools you really need to try and stay within one or two battery platforms because when you are talking about having 30 or 40 tools in the trailer and several dozen batteries you are running all the time, you are not going to have 5 different battery platforms in that trailer.

The festool stuff is nice but without a broader range at least including more of the basic tools in cordless such as sawsalls, and trim nailers and such it is hard for them to really edge into being a top competitor.

Now that being said, I am really excited to see them finally pushing into the cordless market and if they keep going in that direction by adding more of the expansion type tools and specialty tools in cordless I will be a quick adopter because their tools always seem to be worth the added price over the competition. I just need more offerings to justify buying deep into their platform.

We have a tens of thousands in their tools in the shop and I have tried to dip in the new cordless platform where it made sense in the work flow. Our shop layout is segmented and we typically rip our sheet goods lengthwise in a different part of the shop then where the dust collectors are. So I picked up a cordless ts55  and a 9 ft rail just for that task that lives in that area and in that case it made sense and has worked good. But the real appeal of cordless is site work. And for heavy adoption at least in my experience they need to expand the line to get real adoption. They don't need all the trade specific but at least some of the stuff that almost all the other main brands have, especially the wood working focused ones. Things that come to mind are a sawsall, trim router, small miter saw, planer, Cordless dust collector, and maybe a trim nailer. If I see them push into some of this, especially the sawsall, I am placing orders.

Offline demographic

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Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2021, 09:26 AM »
Never worked on many building sites then eh?

 [wink] Exactly, but yes I have done a few. That’s why I chose Festool to my “private” building site.
There’s not many Festool products I would have brought to a site, but a HK saw, and a very few other Festool’s.

The kit on a building site would probably consist of Makita, Milwaukee, DeWalt and Metabo. Just as Rob Robillard in A Concord Carpenter have chosen. Most FT would have stayed in the shop.
As the kit would have been banged around, and therefore would have been of the more rough character to get the job done. FT has not its strength (and pricing) to compete very well, at least not over here) They’re more of a specialists or enthusiasts brand on sites. In a kitchen/cabinet shop and so forth, yes, very common.

I don't know about anyone else but personally I'm not fussed about Festools offerings on the drill front and really couldnt care less about them.
However I find the HKC saw to be an excellent tool thats out the van almost every working day.
I have a a TS55 and hardly ever use it now I have the HKC.
That HKC gets properly used, up on a roof, doing concrete formwork, framing through to kitchens.
Sometimes I hook it upto an extractor (not having a cordless extractor is becoming increasingly annoying nowadays as the sites I'm on often have power thats intermittent at best) but most times when I'm working in a building the windows arent even in so its... well ventilated and I just use the dust bag on it.

Nowadays I basically don't want anything thats got a cord. I've been a self employed subcontractor for 17 years now and for me cordless is definitely the way forward.
Working on peoples homes is differennt and power is often more likely to be availible. I detest working in peoples homes though and would rather stick a fork in my eye.
Also we have to get ourcorded  tools PAT tested by an electrician every six or so months, this can cost money.
The cordless tools don't need it (although the chargers do but theres a LOT less chargers than tools) so cordless tools are less of a bother.

Its funny how many of us can only really see how we work and not realise how different circumstances change the methods of working.
Me I'm baffled at people who like those little 3Ah batteries because for me charging batteries is an effort and sometimes a charging point is a good distance away in an area where theft is an issue.
So I buy minimum 5Ah batteries so its less often.
Garage-wallahs are 10 feet away from a socket at most and love the lergonomics and light weight of those tools.
You couldn't give me one.

As I understand it the TSC is more powerful than the TS55 so they're not always giving up anything on power anyway.

Offline MaineShop

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Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2021, 09:29 AM »
Just a follow up, Festool needs to do a better job about bringing their whole catalog to the states. Bosch has the same problem and thats why you almost never see them on serious job sites here despite them making some really great tools.

Talking to folks that have worked in Europe and here one of the main differences in the US vs working in Europe is the space. It sounds like based on what I am hearing in Europe a lot of builders are constrained by space, often having to work out of vans or squeezing a lot of the tooling into cramped job sites. Vs here in the state many job sites I am on will usually have multiple large trailers camped at the jobs and usually most of the builders or general contractors will have large shops or yards where additional tools and equipment are stored and milling parts assembled or produced. All that space leads to an expectation of large tool inventories. Dewalt and milwaukee provide the depth of range for that. Even Ryobi dose. Festool needs to expand that range. I know they have tools that are not available in the states. If you want me to buy more of your stuff I wanna know there is more to buy, I only need so many drills and track saws.

Offline Alex

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Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2021, 10:05 AM »
ROFL, people begged and screamed for cordless tools, and now they have them it's not good either?

Just accept we're not at once in a perfect world and in the mean time appreciate you get options.

who did?

People. Like that guy over there and the guy behind him also.  Not sure about that third guy though. [tongue]

Jokes aside, there was a time Festool only had cordless drills and nothing more. Many people here on the forum wanted more from Festool and asked. If you read this thread, there are still more people who want even more options.

The point I was making was that tools that require dust extraction don't need to be cordless if its from Festool as their plug it cable makes connecting the tool just as fast as connecting the vacuum hose & faster than pairing Bluetooth battery's with a Bluetooth vacuum. (Cheaper/More Powerful/Less to go wrong) also

No tool requires dust extraction by definition. Sometimes dust is perfectly happy to fall on the ground instead of being sucked up in a dark hole.

And sometimes dust creating tools come with a dust bag so you can sort-of catch the dust. It is all about having options.

I am not a big user of cordless tools, I prefer them corded. Dusty tools are hooked up to my vac and most of the time I have a 220v socket around. Only my drills are cordless of course. Unless I need to hammer.

But I can see how you sometimes just want to do a quick job and just get the tool without having to go through a long preparation time.

Cordless is only going to get bigger.

Offline afish

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Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2021, 10:26 AM »
The only Festool I would care to see cordless is the MFK since its the only festool I have that doesnt get hooked to any type of dust control.  Unfortunately it still wouldnt be enough to get me to buy one since I wouldnt invest in a another battery platform for just one tool and Im already heavily invested in another and I hate having different batteries and chargers.   

Offline Oldwood

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Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2021, 10:31 AM »
I tend to agree about tools that need active dust collection not needing to be cordless.

If I was doing a lot of on site outdoor work I might consider a cordless track saw though.
Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance.
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Offline Cheese

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Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2021, 10:47 AM »
My question is why would someone, lets say for example sake buy the cordless version of the ts55 when the corded version is quite a lot cheaper and has the same (if not more) mobility than the cordless version as the cable can be run in the vacuum hose's sleeve on the corded version..

I presume the cordless version is actually heavier? and less powerful?


I use both the HKC and the TSC with bags which do quite well when they're attached. It's surprising how little dust gets away. The real issue is that they need to be emptied frequently but that just points out how good the dust bag works. Also the TSC seems to have more power than my TS 55...that TS needs to go down the road.  [smile]

I also like the cordless sanders for some applications, say drawer fronts or drawer interiors. In the past I used an ETS 125 & DTS 400 for those chores hooked to a CT 22. Everytime I switched sanders, I had to switch hoses. Then when I changed grits, I'd have to remove the hose again to vacuum the residual dust.
Now, I just keep bags on the ETSC 125 & DTSC 400 and swap between them constantly, no hose to remove & reinstall. When I want to change grits the vacuum is already freed up for use.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2021, 11:13 AM »
     

      I thought it was a good question too, and one that I think I asked myself a long time ago. Which is why I gave some examples of why someone might want cordless with a hose attached or the option to attach a hose.

    In addition cordless has the option to be used  both  ways.  You can always take the cordless to a non-power spot even if it is used in the shop connected to a hose most of the time. Or to make a one off cut in the back yard, or to sand a new fence board on your property line for five minutes. But the other way around does not work without running extension cords and hauling out the vac.


     There are lots of pros and cons such as weight , power, handling, price, etc. but the question is --- why cordless tools that hook to a vacuum?

      People use tools and work in different ways and situations. Pretty sure that is one reason Festool offers many of the tools in corded and cordless configurations.

Seth

Offline six-point socket II

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Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2021, 11:39 AM »
I will share my personal view on this with you. :)

I work around my house & garden and setup shop wherever I need to work. While I have a basement workshop, I mostly setup shop on the patio from March to October.

On the majority of "every day tasks" it would take me longer to run an extension cord, connect everything than it takes me to do the task with a cordless tool that comes out of it Systainer ready to go.

A TSC works flawless with the dust bag in its scope of delivery, is dust collection as good as when connected to a dust extractor? No. But good enough to not pose an unnecessary health risk in terms of escaping dust and good enough to not require hours of cleaning afterwards. So very often I only use the TSC with it's dust bag. Especially outdoors on my patio, in the shed, (...).

A sander's life can be immensely extended when used with a dust extractor as the "turbine blades" get cleaned better and the dust extractor's air stream cools down the internals additionally. The dust of a sander is finer than that of a TSC or Carvex so it's more airborne and therefore you are better off catching that with a dust extractor. That said, my first ever sanding with a Festool DTS was the whole outer shell of a shed - completely done with just the old style filter bags, relying solely on the "turbine" of the sander. And that wasn't a bad experience. Now, when I have to sand I lot, I always make sure the power cord of my sander forms a solid unit with my dust extraction hose by using velcro straps.

Problem solving tools like Carvex, OSC, (...) are often used in cramped spaces, cordless freedom is exactly what you want then. Yet they can be used with dust extraction when that makes sense, the surroundings ask for it - and there is enough space or when they are used for prolonged times.

I don't know how other people use their Carvex (jig saw), but when I use it for a longer time, I tend to use it like a "sportsman" who can play his game with both feet/hands. So one moment I'm cutting upside down with my right hand, then I might switch to my left hand and cut from above. I love not having to "worry" about a cord. And please believe me when I say it's a massive difference if its a power cord or a dust extraction hose thats attached to a tool. I have far less trouble with an attached dust extraction hose than with an attached power cord. And now that Festool offers the smooth hoses for quite some time, it got even easier to guide the hose and have it slide effortlessly on the workpiece or over rails.

Personally I wouldn't want it any other way - and I'm very happy with every cordless tool choice I made, be it Festool or any other make I use.

I don't have a crystal ball, I don't know about Festool's future - but let's just say - they probably will never be a "full range supplier" like Milwaukee, Bosch, DeWalt, (...). And especially not in terms of cordless tools.

I personally don't care if a tool is cheaper when it's corded, if price (to an extent) was a concern for me, I wouldn't buy Festool in first place. And probably also wouldn't buy cordless - as cordless always means keeping an inventory of batteries, replacing worn units and so on. It might even go as far as replacing a whole "system" because it's no longer supported and you don't have a trusted source for battery refurbishment.

I also don't own any tool where I'd say its "missing" power compared to a corded variant.

Again, YMMV. But to me, cordless does not exclude dust extraction per se. And a dust extraction hose does not bother to the same extent that power cords can/do - again, especially with the smooth, flexible hoses that are Festool's standard this day.

Kind regards,
Oliver



I'm not sure I'm getting the point of your post?

Festool offers various tools, corded and cordless, various dust extraction hoses including those that are paired with a plug it cable - but usually the extractors come with regular hoses without the added plug it cable. Dust extractors also come with a regular outlet to connect any tool you want to, and have bluetooth functionality so you can pair the battery of your Festool cordless tool with the vacuum and use auto-start. On top of that, Festool offers a bluetooth remote that can be attached to the dust extractor's hose and start/stop the vacuum as well. Which is great for non-Festool cordless tools, and countless dust-extraction accessories.

So what makes you think Festool cordless tools are pointless? Is this a question related to attaching the hose, thinking if there's a hose there could be as well a cable?

From my experience, you still profit greatly from a cordless tool even when connected to a dust extraction hose. YMMV.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Hi Oliver,

my question is why would someone, lets say for example sake buy the cordless version of the ts55 when the corded version is quite a lot cheaper and has the same (if not more) mobility than the cordless version as the cable can be run in the vacuum hose's sleeve on the corded version..

I presume the cordless version is actually heavier? and less powerful?

does the Bluetooth do anything other than turn the vacuum on and off at tool start/stop?
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline six-point socket II

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Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2021, 11:55 AM »
While I still don't have a functioning crystal ball, ;)  and maybe there will be a cordless Festool dust extractor in future, my personal opinion is that Festool was smarter to bring the SYS-Powerstation which can power both a dust extractor and tool for a whole working day. Or let you charge plenty of batteries on one charge.

No I haven't had my hands on one, probably like everyone else with few exceptions - but if it can reliable deliver what Festool claims it can - it's a game changer for anyone needing sanders, concrete grinders, half-stationary machinery + dust extraction in a remote location or on a site without power supply for prolonged times. It simply beats having to show up with 10+ charged batteries everyday - when one (or maybe two) big batteries like the SYS-Powerstation will get you through the day.

Now, unless there's a really great offer I probably won't get the SYS-Powerstation, simply because my actual need for one isn't there. I would have bought it, or would buy it, if I started all over again on remodeling a house - but not in my current situation where I'm done for the most part. So I might still eye cordless dust extractor.

But if I was doing commercial work, I'd get the SYS-Powerstation in a heart beat, to power my regular Festool dust extractor.

Looking at the run times of currently available L/M - Hepa class cordless dust extractors, SYS-Powerstation + regular corded Festool dust extractor (+ tool) - beats all of them. And in a small package compared to running a generator or Bosch's latest offering in terms of a rechargeable battery pack to run corded tools off.

SYS-Powerstation comes at a price - but that's relativized when compared to the price of a cordless half-stationary tool and cordless dust extractor + enough batteries to power both through a full working day of use.

Kind regards,
Oliver

I read about the pros and cons of cordless versus corded tools with interest. it's a good point about the mismatch of a cordless tool with dust extractor. I think if Festool offered a cordless dust extractor it would be a better match.

Another solution is of course having the dust collection bag on the tool like som sanders offer as an accessory and the TSC and HKC, not as good as an external extractor but workable.

Finally many operations can be performed with handtools which often don't generate as much dust if you need mobility, I'm thinking here planing, hand sanding with an ergonomic block small touch ups. using a rasp, chiseling, drilling in softwood with a cordless drill doesn't generate annoying dust either.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2021, 08:12 PM by six-point socket II »
Kind regards,
Oliver

"... . Say yes to stuff, and it will take you interesting places." - Anne Richards, CEO Fidelity International

Offline mrB

  • Posts: 893
Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2021, 03:13 PM »
Well for me I have the TS55 and I'm happy with that. I use it with DC all the time and when it goes I'll buy the same again.

However, sometimes power isn't available or your working with a skeleton collection of tools at a location and being battery powered for a quick cut or a small job outside can be very handy.

So when the HK Saws were released I got the HKC. It is a great back up saw, and very useful to be able to perform track based cuts on the fly without power.

But then I got the FSK rail for it and started to prefer taking the HKC than the TS55 for certain jobs as the multi rail fi=unctions/options and free hand operation of the HKC were a benefit on certain jobs.

So when Festool released the bluetooth equipped Mini/Midi vacs having the option to use the HKC with Auto DC attached became a great option. . . .

Horses for courses as always. There are lots of options and you just need to decide what is right for you.
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 1365
Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2021, 03:37 PM »
While I still don't have a functioning crystal ball, ;)  and maybe there will be a cordless Festool dust extractor in future, my personal opinion is that Festool was smarter to bring the SYS-Powerstation which can power both a dust extractor and tool for a whole working day. Or let you charge plenty of batteries on one charge.


I agree those "power stations" not just Festool are going to be big.  Having 1-2 of those you charge up at night verses remembering to pop 10-30 batteries all in their chargers when you get home for the night is a big change.  The battery powered tools are still going to be nice for the reasons folks mention.  But having one giant battery you can use for all your tools and not just Festool stuff will be a big shift.  Being able to run stuff that doesn't come in battery versions too.  So much other stuff you can use them for outside of tools too.

It's way to easy with cordless to forget to pop them in their chargers while your working and before you know if, you got 5 batteries, all are dead, or they have some juice but can't muster for a high power draw task.

Offline Imemiter

  • Posts: 204
Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2021, 04:14 PM »

does the Bluetooth do anything other than turn the vacuum on and off at tool start/stop?

I think there's an app that'll track the power levels and whatnot. But this question opens the floor to the mind expanding utility of the Bluetooth Button.

 With the Button you get fast access to vacuum switching using cordless tools from any brand. I'll even use it with corded tools sometimes. Like say when I just need a quick cut but don't want to climb under the workbench to plug into the vacuum. I can plug into whatever outlet is closest to me and switch on the vac from the Button. The BT Button is the real "as One" answer in a way that the Plug-it really isn't. The Plug-it, even with the hose sleeve, is actually still a two part operation. Cordless tools make it one, but additionally (with dust bags,) they free us from the struggle and constraint of cords and hoses altogether. Freedom is the point.  [laughing]
« Last Edit: February 21, 2021, 04:16 PM by Imemiter »
CSX T18+3 TID18 HKC55 OSC18 OS400 OF1010 LR32 DF700 RAS115 DTS400 ETC125 CTSys CTMidi CT-VA

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 598
Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2021, 04:24 PM »
Festool are indeed trying.. to satisfy even the most demanding of us.
If one can’t decide, there’s an obvious place to start with Festool:  [big grin]

Corded
Cordless
With dust bag
Without dust bag
With dust collector
Without dust collector:
(Attachment Link)
Sure, it can be used as a sanding block too.

The RTSC Kit (Set?) was something I felt comfortable buying as a cordless especially because of the versatility you mention.  It helped, too, that the reviews said that it was just as balanced with the power adapter "battery" as with an actual battery.

I also got the little hand block with dust collection, too, because it was much more comfortable to use as a sanding block than the RTSC, but once I added the hose and a systainer I was in for almost as much as the bare tool RTSC.

Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 598
Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2021, 04:34 PM »

does the Bluetooth do anything other than turn the vacuum on and off at tool start/stop?

I think there's an app that'll track the power levels and whatnot. But this question opens the floor to the mind expanding utility of the Bluetooth Button.

 With the Button you get fast access to vacuum switching using cordless tools from any brand. I'll even use it with corded tools sometimes. Like say when I just need a quick cut but don't want to climb under the workbench to plug into the vacuum. I can plug into whatever outlet is closest to me and switch on the vac from the Button. The BT Button is the real "as One" answer in a way that the Plug-it really isn't. The Plug-it, even with the hose sleeve, is actually still a two part operation. Cordless tools make it one, but additionally (with dust bags,) they free us from the struggle and constraint of cords and hoses altogether. Freedom is the point.  [laughing]

I was using my "contractor cleaning kit" last night to sweep up the garage floor.  I still have the old Mini but I've seen enough demonstrations of "The Button" to know that it could easily turn something like the Mini into a nice little house cleaner, too; great for stairs.  Can't remember the video, but I saw someone had modified their Button with a Smart Watch armband to make it even more convenient to use than being attached around the end of the hose.

Serge had a good example of the utility of including bluetooth batteries with the 18V drills, not only for using some of the DC attachments for the drills (which admittedly I had never knew existed) but also for cross-compatibility with the other cordless Festools that can use the BT batteries.

Offline gunnyr

  • Posts: 287
    • Compass Custom Creations
Re: festool cordless tools pointless?
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2021, 04:58 PM »
I thought this was a great question topic Monkeyclimber. I have a lot of festools in the shop but most are corded for exactly the reason you are pointing out. I am almost always going to use them with dust collection so what is the point in getting a cordless since I am always gonna have to plug in the CT.
......

 Things that come to mind are a sawsall, trim router, small miter saw, planer, Cordless dust collector, and maybe a trim nailer. If I see them push into some of this, especially the sawsall, I am placing orders.

Well said @MaineShop

IMHO Festool's greatest shortcoming in the cordless line is the failure to market a cordless dust collector.  For the life of me I can't understand why Festool wasted the effort producing the CT SYS as a corded only extractor.  For the money AND performance I'm keeping my CT MIDI.
Semper Fi,
Jeff

TS 55 REQ|HKC 55|PSB 420|DF 500|ETS EC 125/3 EQ|ETS 150/3|ETSC 125|DTSC 400|RO 90|RO 150|OF 1400|MFK 700|LR 32|MFS 400/700|CXS (2)|PDC 18|DWC 18-4500|CT MIDI|CT 26|CT 48|MFT/3 (2)|VAC SYS-SET|STL 450|DUO-SET|SYSLITE KAL II
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