Author Topic: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons  (Read 94367 times)

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Offline AlexR

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #60 on: September 06, 2013, 02:57 PM »
Bevel circle cut looks good Frank, didn't you find the blade was a bit short on the bevel cut? . Unfortunately angle foot doesn't have place to fit splinter guard. Can you fit a splinter guard with that radius foot?

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Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #61 on: September 08, 2013, 02:42 PM »
Would the butterfly base end up crushing the edge using this technique? Perhaps not as the leading edge of the circle is not sharp. Your results look good on your given example and probably get better with larger arcs, but for smaller radius do you feel there is more risk of rocking the saw creating a compound angle on the bevel?

Just asking

You are right in that cutting this way with a small radius would be a problem.  I would not be comfortable doing this with a radius smaller than 20 centimetres.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 03:30 PM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #62 on: September 08, 2013, 02:55 PM »
Bevel circle cut looks good Frank, didn't you find the blade was a bit short on the bevel cut? . Unfortunately angle foot doesn't have place to fit splinter guard. Can you fit a splinter guard with that radius foot?

The blade was long enough for this thickness of wood (15 mm) but I would not want the wood to be much thicker.  I wish that Festool made longer versions of both their scroll scroll blades.

I was (of course) just joking about using the splinter guard with the angle foot.  There is room for a splinter guard when using the circle cutting foot.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #63 on: September 09, 2013, 08:03 AM »
Great review!  I know this is off-topic, but what finish did you use on the cedar?  It looks great.

Thanks Eric.

I don't know whether you are asking about the finish on the cedar logs of the cabin or the cedar porch and steps, so I will answer for both.

The cabin logs are finished with: Solignum Natural Wood Finish (semi gloss oil) V696

The porch boards are finished with:  SikensCetol1  Natural SIK412078 (again oil based)
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #64 on: September 09, 2013, 08:52 PM »
Frank, one of the best tool reviews I have ever read. Impartial, likes and dislikes for all 3 saws. One request for a further test, cut a corbel from the thickest material possible for your blades.

I am overwhelmed by your praise.  Thanks, it really means a lot to me.

I decided to break the Corbel Cutting into two different tasks:

                  (1) Cut a corbel in 5cm thick MDF using a S 75/4 fast scrolling blade

                  (2) Cut a corbel in 12 cm thick MDF using a S 145/4 FSG blade

Here is the corbel pattern:

     92205-0

Task 1:  This was done with all four saws.

With the Bosch, I used the splinter guard, the light and the blower:

     92207-1    

With both Carvex saws, I used the splinter guard, the light and dust collection.  Here is the corded Carvex in action:

     92209-2

With the Trion I used the splinter guard and dust collection.

The results were just about the same with the Bosch and with both Carvex saws.  I managed to follow the line perfectly except right in the two interior corners and the angle of the cut was a perfect 90 degrees throughout.  I needed to clean up the interior corners a bit with a file and sandpaper and, after I did this everything looked good.   Here are a couple of photos of the edge of the Corbel cut with the corded Carvex (before cleanup) :

     92211-3     92213-4

Because of the lack of a built-in light, I did not follow the line perfectly with the Trion and I messed up one interior curve a little bit.  Again the cut was a perfect 90 degrees.


Task 2:  This was only done with the corded Carvex.

Here is the saw and blade:

     92215-5

The cut was surprisingly good in spite of the fact that the blade is thicker, wider, and has larger teeth.  Again the angle of the cut was a perfect 90 degrees throughout.  Here is photo:

     92217-6
« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 05:05 AM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #65 on: September 09, 2013, 09:52 PM »



I think cutting corbels was the main objective of the Carvex design, particularly the 90* fixed shoe.
It's a pain to set a jigsaw back to 90* after it's been set to some other angle. Sure most good jigsaws have notches in thier tiltable base but they almost always require further fiddling to get the saw to cut square. It would be great to simply snap back and forth between the angle base and the 90* base if that is what you need to do.

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #66 on: September 10, 2013, 04:53 AM »
Another question, how does the cut quality differ, if at all between the trion and the carvex? Would you say the carvex is a significant upgrade worthy of trading in the trion?

I would not say that the quality of the actual cut is any better but, on many cuts, the ability to follow the line  is better on the Carvex. 

Certainly more accurate angles cuts can be done with the Carvex.  For this and for other reasons mentioned in the 'My Decision' portion of the review, I would, indeed, say the Carvex is a significant upgrade worthy of trading in the Trion
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #67 on: September 10, 2013, 02:47 PM »

...

The Blade ejector seems like something I would rather enjoy.  I often have to fight with my jigsaw when the blade is dull (and very hot) and I think that would be a perfect thing for me to shoot into a bucket or trash bin.

...
Bryan


OK, now I see a reason for this "feature". 

But, I still would prefer not to have it.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #68 on: September 11, 2013, 08:54 AM »
Frank,

      Great review , can't wait for the rest.

      How do you feel about the "open hand" grip on the Carvex barrel grip saws?  In other words  when I checked one out I noticed that it is more difficult (or not possible) to wrap fingers around under the  body of the saw.  Hope I explained that well enough.


Seth

Very helpful review....thank you.   I did not see anyone respond to Seth's question.   I have wondered this too and seem to have read somewhere else the Carvex barrel was bigger than the Trion and that report suggested getting the D handle Carvex because you would have the flexibility of the smaller D handle AND the barrel grip due to the switch locations on the Carvex.    Any experience or perspective on this?

I happy that you liked the review -thanks.

The Carvex's barrel is bigger than the Trion's and I do find it slightly more difficult to grip -but there is sufficient grip for me (and I have small hands) to still feel comfortable guiding the saw.  

I still am not comfortable with the switch locations and with the fact that the switch is pushed rather than pulled to turn off the saw.  I had thought that after a few hours of use I would no longer need to think about how to turn off the saw, but I still do.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 08:56 AM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline nanook

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #69 on: September 11, 2013, 02:54 PM »
Great review Frank, very through.  

Few tests -
1. cutting marble or ceramic tiles 90 and 45 degrees, following a scribe line.
2. scribing the back/sides of cabs to an uneven wall, say a 15degree back-bevel.   Following the scribe line to back bevel the ply edges.

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #70 on: September 11, 2013, 07:00 PM »
Great review Frank, very through.  

Few tests -
1. cutting marble or ceramic tiles 90 and 45 degrees, following a scribe line.
2. scribing the back/sides of cabs to an uneven wall, say a 15degree back-bevel.   Following the scribe line to back bevel the ply edges.

Thanks nanook.

Your suggestion of cutting ceramic tiles is very timely because, now that I am back in Toronto, one of my many tasks is to install some ceramic tiles around the kitchen window that we replaced last spring:

     92294-0

With all the saws, I cut the tiles using a Festool R 45 G blade at speed 3 and with the pendulum feature turned off.

Here is the Trion about to start the task:

     92296-1

With the Carvex, I tried to use dust collection, but it was completely ineffective.  That's a disappointment.

     92298-2

I didn't bother with dust collection on the Trion and, instead blew away the dust with my mouth.  That worked better, but not as well as I would have liked.

     92300-3

I used the blower on the Bosch and that worked well:

     92302-4

As long as I could see the line, the cut with the Festool blade was very good!  The only real differences in any of the saws is that (1) the blower on the Bosch makes it much easier to see the line and (2) the light on the Carvex and the Bosch helps some.

I did try the dimpled base on the Carvex and it did not seem to make any difference.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 09:12 AM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #71 on: September 12, 2013, 06:29 AM »
Thanks for the great review!

You are very welcome.

Quote from: NJW
How bad is the Carvex without the blower and without using a dust extractor?

It depends on what it is that you are cutting.  In many cases, one can see the line even though neither a blower nor dust extraction is being used.

Quote from: NJW
Does the light help to still see your cutting line? Thanks again.

Again, it depends.  The light often helps.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline nanook

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #72 on: September 12, 2013, 12:48 PM »
cool, did you happen to time any of the tile cuts, any other comments?

I think it would be interesting to see how the carvex vs others handles back-beveling a scribe line to an uneven surface like adjusting cabinets for an install.   
you know - scribe the wall evenness on an end cab, then back bevel that line.   

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #73 on: September 12, 2013, 01:50 PM »
cool, did you happen to time any of the tile cuts, any other comments?

OK, I just timed a cut of 15 centimetres in a ceramic wall tile and it took me 65 seconds.  The cut was perfect.

Quote from: nanook
I think it would be interesting to see how the carvex vs others handles back-beveling a scribe line to an uneven surface like adjusting cabinets for an install.  
you know - scribe the wall evenness on an end cab, then back bevel that line.  

I do know but I don't have any uninstalled cabinets handy.  Would just doing this along the edge of a 3/4 inch piece of plywood or MDF be good enough for you?
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 01:59 PM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #74 on: September 12, 2013, 04:41 PM »
cool, did you happen to time any of the tile cuts, any other comments?

OK, I just timed a cut of 15 centimetres in a ceramic wall tile and it took me 65 seconds.  The cut was perfect.

Quote from: nanook
I think it would be interesting to see how the carvex vs others handles back-beveling a scribe line to an uneven surface like adjusting cabinets for an install.  
you know - scribe the wall evenness on an end cab, then back bevel that line.  

I do know but I don't have any uninstalled cabinets handy.  Would just doing this along the edge of a 3/4 inch piece of plywood or MDF be good enough for you?

Good enough for me...

Offline nanook

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #75 on: September 12, 2013, 05:48 PM »
me to - back beveling and scribing an edge with finished surfaces for installation is a really common job.    Would be good to know about chipout, ect
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 05:52 PM by nanook »

Offline NYC Tiny Shop

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #76 on: September 13, 2013, 07:44 AM »
Does the Carvex use the same splinter guard as the Trion?  Also, would you wait for the cordless Carvex or just get the corded one now? Thanks.

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #77 on: September 13, 2013, 07:56 AM »
Does the Carvex use the same splinter guard as the Trion?  Also, would you wait for the cordless Carvex or just get the corded one now? Thanks.

Yes the splinter guards are the same on the Trion and the Carvex.

Because I work off-grid a lot, I would wait for the battery powered Carvex.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #78 on: September 13, 2013, 05:03 PM »
OK, there have been several requests to do the type of cut needed to scribe a cabinet in order to fit snug against a crooked wall.  I don't have any cabinets handy put I do have a 32 inch long piece of 3/4 inch walnut veneer plywood which I will use to simulate the task.  My simulated wall is a piece of 2x6 spruce one side of which I cut in a wobbly way.  Here is a photo:

92523-0

I undercut the scribe lines with an (approximate) 15 degree angle at the back.  A Festool S75/4 K fast scrolling blade was used on all saws, pendulum setting 3 saw used on all saws, and the speed was set to either 6 or to A.

Right away, I encountered a problem using the Carvex angle base:

92525-1

The part of the base that extends down gets in the way.  To solve this, I had to insert the 90 degree base and cut just outside (about 5 millimetres away from) the entire scribe line.  Once that was done, I reinserted the angle base and made the cut:

92527-2

Altough I could not use dust control, the line was always visible and the resulting cut was good.

Cutting with both the Bosch and the Trion was straightforward:

92529-3  92531-4

I used both the light and the blower on the Bosch but I doubt that the blower was needed.  

Because there is no light on the Trion it was slightly harder to see the line and the cut took about 30 seconds longer.  The cuts using both the Carvex and the Bosch took about 105 seconds.

All the cuts were excellent and there was no chipping of the plywood.  Here, for example, is the piece that I cut with the Bosch being fitted to the "wall":

92533-5
« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 05:26 PM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #79 on: September 13, 2013, 06:04 PM »
Thanks for the test Frank.

So the angle shoe won't let the blade get closer than about 5mm from the edge.
You found a simple workaround that requires pre-cutting to within 5mm of the scribed line.
Obviously it takes extra time to make that first cut but it only takes seconds to switch shoes.

To make the test test more fair (and highlight the value of the snap-on shoes) you could test how long it takes to make the same cuts with the other saws. That is, going from 90* to bevel and back.

Offline Tom Bellemare

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #80 on: September 13, 2013, 06:07 PM »
If you had a track saw handy, you could back bevel real close to the scribe with it and then use the jigsaw.


Tom

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #81 on: September 13, 2013, 06:25 PM »
If you had a track saw handy, you could back bevel real close to the scribe with it and then use the jigsaw.


Tom

Not if the scribe line is as wobbly as mine -but, in many cases you would be right.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #82 on: September 13, 2013, 06:32 PM »
Thanks for the test Frank.

So the angle shoe won't let the blade get closer than about 5mm from the edge.
You found a simple workaround that requires pre-cutting to within 5mm of the scribed line.
Obviously it takes extra time to make that first cut but it only takes seconds to switch shoes.

To make the test test more fair (and highlight the value of the snap-on shoes) you could test how long it takes to make the same cuts with the other saws. That is, going from 90* to bevel and back.

I'm not going to do the test again Michael.  But, I can estimate. 

The action of swapping out one shoe and swapping in another takes about 10 seconds, so that's 20 seconds combined.  It took me between 30 and 40 seconds to make the extra cut.  So, altogether, it took me about and extra minute.  The scribed cut itself took a little less than 2 minutes with the Bosch and the Carvex and about 30 seconds longer with the (unlighted) Trion.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline ScotF

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #83 on: September 13, 2013, 07:48 PM »
Excellent pictures and description, Frank.  Seems like a good workaround that is not all that slow.

How have you found the cuts to be using the guide rail adaptor and the Carvex?  Has the inability to adjust the base to the guiderail been an issue? 

Scot

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #84 on: September 14, 2013, 07:57 AM »
...

It's a pain to set a jigsaw back to 90* after it's been set to some other angle. Sure most good jigsaws have notches in thier tiltable base but they almost always require further fiddling to get the saw to cut square. It would be great to simply snap back and forth between the angle base and the 90* base if that is what you need to do.

Right you are Michael and that is, indeed, what I do.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline nanook

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #85 on: September 14, 2013, 12:52 PM »
thanks Frank - looking like the Carvex is looking better and better [eek]

Offline hemlock

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #86 on: September 14, 2013, 01:24 PM »
Frank or others, what is your experience with the Carvex's dust collection using the guide rail base either on the tracks or for the circle cutter?   There has been some discussion in other threads about the dust collection port not fitting well on that base implying dust collection does not work well or as well as the 90degree base...thx

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #87 on: September 14, 2013, 01:46 PM »
thanks Frank - looking like the Carvex is looking better and better [eek]

Yes it is.   [smile] 

The Bosch is also looking better and better.  I purchased it, just to do these comparison tests and planned to sell it right away.  Now, I think that I will probably keep the Bosch as well as the battery powered Carvex.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #88 on: September 14, 2013, 01:53 PM »
Excellent pictures and description, Frank.  Seems like a good workaround that is not all that slow.

How have you found the cuts to be using the guide rail adaptor and the Carvex?  Has the inability to adjust the base to the guiderail been an issue? 

Scot

Thanks Scot.

There is very little play in the guide rail adapter and , since I push the same way on the saw while making the cut, the distance of the saw from the rail is not likely to vary.  Even if I did move the saw the wide of the variance, it is not likely to matter because the play is only somewhere between 1 and 3 millimetres.  I can't think of anything I have made out of wood where that would matter.
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline NYC Tiny Shop

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Re: Festool Carvex 420 (both mains and battery powered) - Comparisons
« Reply #89 on: September 14, 2013, 01:59 PM »
Thanks, Frank.  Great job on the review.