Author Topic: Festool Carvex 420 (both corded & battery) - Comparisons (Read 94585 times)

elimelech12 · « **Reply #30 on:** August 30, 2013, 11:11 PM »

Quote from: Frank Pellow on August 30, 2013, 10:03 PM

Quote from: jmbfestool on August 30, 2013, 02:18 PM
You said in one of your Posts: The blower on the Bosch did not help much, if at all.

Yet at the end you said:

The Bosch JS572EB is a very good saw. There are features that I like on it that are not on my faithful Trion. These are the blower, the light, and the much better non-90 degree angle cutting with positive stops.

That may seem like a contradiction but it is not. I did not find the blower on the Bosch to be helpful in that particular task, but I did find it to be helpful elsewhere. I wish that the Carvex had a blower.

Well put; it is therefore a paradox and not a contradiction.

elimelech12 · « **Reply #31 on:** August 31, 2013, 12:54 AM »

On another I was thinking of the angled base...I posted this on Paul Marcel's review and was wondering your take on this-

I was pretty sure about my preorder over a month ago, but the angled base is a real turn off especially that there's no dust collection. Makes absolutely no sense to me being it is Festool.

It also appears that cutting an inward bevel (meaning: causing the edge of the stock to become less 90) on a scribe line would pose a problem if the line goes toward the work piece. Would the base hit the work piece being it folds down into 90 degrees and rests against the edge you are cutting off? Eventually I see the front of the base making contact. (Hope you understood)

Also I see a problem cutting an inward angle (meaning: causing the edge of the stock to become less 90) if the cut needs to be made a half inch or slightly more/less into the piece. Where would the support be? It couldn't support safely on the little bit of base left or on the material that's being removed. Or if the base is folded to 90 would you even be able to begin the cut?

Kev · « **Reply #32 on:** August 31, 2013, 01:43 AM »

Quote from: elimelech12 on August 31, 2013, 12:54 AM

On another I was thinking of the angled base...I posted this on Paul Marcel's review and was wondering your take on this-

I was pretty sure about my preorder over a month ago, but the angled base is a real turn off especially that there's no dust collection. Makes absolutely no sense to me being it is Festool.

It also appears that cutting an inward bevel (meaning: causing the edge of the stock to become less 90) on a scribe line would pose a problem if the line goes toward the work piece. Would the base hit the work piece being it folds down into 90 degrees and rests against the edge you are cutting off? Eventually I see the front of the base making contact. (Hope you understood)

Also I see a problem cutting an inward angle (meaning: causing the edge of the stock to become less 90) if the cut needs to be made a half inch or slightly more/less into the piece. Where would the support be? It couldn't support safely on the little bit of base left or on the material that's being removed. Or if the base is folded to 90 would you even be able to begin the cut?

Is this for a situation where you can't cut from the other side or something??

elimelech12 · « **Reply #33 on:** August 31, 2013, 02:35 AM »

I guess, in less words, what I'm asking is if there is a point where the base would hit the stock when going in one direction and have to unsafely on the stock being removed when going in the other direction

hemlock · « **Reply #34 on:** August 31, 2013, 11:13 AM »

Quote from: SRSemenza on August 28, 2013, 10:32 AM

Frank,

Great review , can't wait for the rest.

How do you feel about the "open hand" grip on the Carvex barrel grip saws? In other words when I checked one out I noticed that it is more difficult (or not possible) to wrap fingers around under the body of the saw. Hope I explained that well enough.

Seth

Very helpful review....thank you. I did not see anyone respond to Seth's question. I have wondered this too and seem to have read somewhere else the Carvex barrel was bigger than the Trion and that report suggested getting the D handle Carvex because you would have the flexibility of the smaller D handle AND the barrel grip due to the switch locations on the Carvex. Any experience or perspective on this?

Festool USA · « **Reply #35 on:** August 31, 2013, 10:34 PM »

Quote from: Frank Pellow on August 27, 2013, 08:09 AM

(3) Depending on the position of the blade holding mechanism after one shuts off the saw, the blade ejection mechanism is not always properly aligned, therefore it does not always work. These photos illustrate this:

Frank, I've not had a chance to read the whole write up, but thanks for taking the time to put together this thorough review.

I did want to comment on this real quick because I think this may happen to some of our soon-to-be Carvex owners. The Carvex needs the blade at the top of its stroke for the ejection mechanism to work. In some instances, the blade does not return to this position and thus the ejection button doesn't work. This most commonly would happen if the Carvex is turned off mid-cut. The blade hangs on the material, preventing it from completely the stroke and returning to the top (home) position.

There's a simple remedy... Turn the Carvex on for about 20-30 seconds and it will sense the problem and fix itself. You can actually see it happen with the strobe effect.

Hope someone finds that tip helpful.

Shane

elimelech12 · « **Reply #36 on:** August 31, 2013, 10:55 PM »

Quote from: elimelech12 on August 31, 2013, 12:54 AM

On another I was thinking of the angled base...I posted this on Paul Marcel's review and was wondering your take on this-

I was pretty sure about my preorder over a month ago, but the angled base is a real turn off especially that there's no dust collection. Makes absolutely no sense to me being it is Festool.

It also appears that cutting an inward bevel (meaning: causing the edge of the stock to become less 90) on a scribe line would pose a problem if the line goes toward the work piece. Would the base hit the work piece being it folds down into 90 degrees and rests against the edge you are cutting off? Eventually I see the front of the base making contact. (Hope you understood)

Also I see a problem cutting an inward angle (meaning: causing the edge of the stock to become less 90) if the cut needs to be made a half inch or slightly more/less into the piece. Where would the support be? It couldn't support safely on the little bit of base left or on the material that's being removed. Or if the base is folded to 90 would you even be able to begin the cut?

So can anyone who has a carvex respond to this?

Festool USA · « **Reply #37 on:** August 31, 2013, 11:03 PM »

I think I understand your questions.

Quote from: elimelech12 on August 31, 2013, 12:54 AM

It also appears that cutting an inward bevel (meaning: causing the edge of the stock to become less 90) on a scribe line would pose a problem if the line goes toward the work piece. Would the base hit the work piece being it folds down into 90 degrees and rests against the edge you are cutting off? Eventually I see the front of the base making contact. (Hope you understood)

Turn and cut from the opposite direction. Then the angle base is at an acute angle rather than obtuse, but your bevel is the same.

Quote from: elimelech12 on August 31, 2013, 12:54 AM

Also I see a problem cutting an inward angle (meaning: causing the edge of the stock to become less 90) if the cut needs to be made a half inch or slightly more/less into the piece. Where would the support be? It couldn't support safely on the little bit of base left or on the material that's being removed. Or if the base is folded to 90 would you even be able to begin the cut?

First, you flip cut in the opposite direction assuming there is more support on the other side of the cut. I doubt you've be cutting something only a couple of inches wide, so presumably more support on the other side.

Also, if you think the base is too narrow, there are screws that hold the plastic runners on the bottom of the base. You could remove the plastic runner(s) and add a piece of thin wood, Plexi, or something else to make the base wider using the existing screws, or longer screws if necessary. So, you could make the base as wide as you wanted.

You've got 30 days to try it out for yourself to see if it meets your expectations/needs.

elimelech12 · « **Reply #38 on:** August 31, 2013, 11:11 PM »

Quote from: Shane Holland on August 31, 2013, 11:03 PM

I think I understand your questions.

Quote from: elimelech12 on August 31, 2013, 12:54 AM
It also appears that cutting an inward bevel (meaning: causing the edge of the stock to become less 90) on a scribe line would pose a problem if the line goes toward the work piece. Would the base hit the work piece being it folds down into 90 degrees and rests against the edge you are cutting off? Eventually I see the front of the base making contact. (Hope you understood)

Turn and cut from the opposite direction. Then the angle base is at an acute angle rather than obtuse, but your bevel is the same.

Quote from: elimelech12 on August 31, 2013, 12:54 AM
Also I see a problem cutting an inward angle (meaning: causing the edge of the stock to become less 90) if the cut needs to be made a half inch or slightly more/less into the piece. Where would the support be? It couldn't support safely on the little bit of base left or on the material that's being removed. Or if the base is folded to 90 would you even be able to begin the cut?

First, you flip cut in the opposite direction assuming there is more support on the other side of the cut. I doubt you've be cutting something only a couple of inches wide, so presumably more support on the other side.

Also, if you think the base is too narrow, there are screws that hold the plastic runners on the bottom of the base. You could remove the plastic runner(s) and add a piece of thin wood, Plexi, or something else to make the base wider using the existing screws, or longer screws if necessary. So, you could make the base as wide as you wanted.

You've got 30 days to try it out for yourself to see if it meets your expectations/needs.

Thanks...would the 30 days apply to the accessory kit also?

Festool USA · « **Reply #39 on:** August 31, 2013, 11:13 PM »

Quote from: elimelech12 on August 31, 2013, 11:11 PM

Thanks...would the 30 days apply to the accessory kit also?

Ah, yes, good point. No, our 30-day return guarantee only applies to the tool. Sorry.

However, some dealers may offer their own 30-day return policy on products probably with the condition that its returned in like new condition.

elimelech12 · « **Reply #40 on:** September 01, 2013, 02:52 AM »

Quote from: Shane Holland on August 31, 2013, 11:03 PM

Also, if you think the base is too narrow, there are screws that hold the plastic runners on the bottom of the base. You could remove the plastic runner(s) and add a piece of thin wood, Plexi, or something else to make the base wider using the existing screws, or longer screws if necessary. So, you could make the base as wide as you wanted.

Wouldn't that be considered modifying a tool? Big no-no on the FOG

Or is it ok because it's an accessory?

This thread is now locked!

Also, I thought about your responses but I cannot get my head around the angle base. When I build cabinets I leave a 1/2 on the ends for scribing an inward 15 degree scribe. Most of the time I take off a 1/4-3/8 depending on the wall, sometimes less. It does not seem possible in my mind. It seems that if the Carvex is going left to right or right to left with the base in the obtuse position, then it would be hanging off the stock or resting by a hair on the stock being removed.

And if the base were in the acute or, better yet, reflex position then the part of the base that overhangs the edge that I'm cutting would make contact with the piece if the scribe line is further in from the immediate edge.

(And no dust collection???)

Quote from: Shane Holland on August 31, 2013, 11:13 PM

Quote from: elimelech12 on August 31, 2013, 11:11 PM
Thanks...would the 30 days apply to the accessory kit also?

Ah, yes, good point. No, our 30-day return guarantee only applies to the tool. Sorry.

However, some dealers may offer their own 30-day return policy on products probably with the condition that its returned in like new condition.

That's a $200 risk.

SRSemenza · « **Reply #41 on:** September 01, 2013, 11:03 AM »

Quote from: elimelech12 on September 01, 2013, 02:52 AM

Quote from: Shane Holland on August 31, 2013, 11:13 PM
Quote from: elimelech12 on August 31, 2013, 11:11 PM
Thanks...would the 30 days apply to the accessory kit also?

Ah, yes, good point. No, our 30-day return guarantee only applies to the tool. Sorry.

However, some dealers may offer their own 30-day return policy on products probably with the condition that its returned in like new condition.

That's a $200 risk.

Ask before you buy

Seth

Paul G · « **Reply #42 on:** September 01, 2013, 12:07 PM »

Quote from: elimelech12 on September 01, 2013, 02:52 AM

That's a $200 risk.

I'm sure you could sell a barely used accessory kit to mitigate your risk

elimelech12 · « **Reply #43 on:** September 01, 2013, 03:45 PM »

Quote from: SRSemenza on September 01, 2013, 11:03 AM

Quote from: elimelech12 on September 01, 2013, 02:52 AM

Quote from: Shane Holland on August 31, 2013, 11:13 PM
Quote from: elimelech12 on August 31, 2013, 11:11 PM
Thanks...would the 30 days apply to the accessory kit also?
Ah, yes, good point. No, our 30-day return guarantee only applies to the tool. Sorry.

However, some dealers may offer their own 30-day return policy on products probably with the condition that its returned in like new condition.

That's a $200 risk.

Ask before you buy

Seth

I think I'll be passing on the carvex. Its unfortunate because I was really looking forward to it. I sold my ps300 for it but looking back I miss it. (Just like I sold my 55 for the req

) No dust collection on the angle base was the icing on the cake. I think when more people become aware of this we will see the results here. But thanks for the help.

RonWen · « **Reply #44 on:** September 02, 2013, 11:28 AM »

Quote from: Shane Holland on August 31, 2013, 11:13 PM

Quote from: elimelech12 on August 31, 2013, 11:11 PM
Thanks...would the 30 days apply to the accessory kit also?

Ah, yes, good point. No, our 30-day return guarantee only applies to the tool. Sorry.

However, some dealers may offer their own 30-day return policy on products probably with the condition that its returned in like new condition.

Although I've never used the 30 return offer, I never realized it was limited -- is that to say that the return policy only applies to "powered" items?

RonWen · « **Reply #45 on:** September 02, 2013, 11:30 AM »

Very good information throughout the thread Frank, THANKS VERY MUCH!

Also, another great manual by Rick!

ScotF · « **Reply #46 on:** September 02, 2013, 12:20 PM »

Quote from: RonWen on September 02, 2013, 11:28 AM

Quote from: Shane Holland on August 31, 2013, 11:13 PM
Quote from: elimelech12 on August 31, 2013, 11:11 PM
Thanks...would the 30 days apply to the accessory kit also?

Ah, yes, good point. No, our 30-day return guarantee only applies to the tool. Sorry.

However, some dealers may offer their own 30-day return policy on products probably with the condition that its returned in like new condition.

Although I've never used the 30 return offer, I never realized it was limited -- is that to say that the return policy only applies to "powered" items?

I think it applies to whatever Festool identifies as a tool -- MFT/3's count as a tool, the Workcenter, Stool, etc... I am sure Shane can also weigh in.

Scot

Festool USA · « **Reply #47 on:** September 02, 2013, 12:38 PM »

A tool is any product with a serial number for the purposes of our guarantee.

Frank Pellow · « **Reply #48 on:** September 05, 2013, 08:31 AM »

Quote from: Tom Bellemare on August 28, 2013, 09:44 AM

Quote
The chip guard is semi-built in and it is easier to utilize than it is with the Trion. However, it is difficult to slide the chip guard up and down. I seem to need more than the recommended “minimal pressure” in order to get it to move. This is true on both saws.

Frank:

I also struggled to move the chip guard up and down at first. Then, I realized that if you use one finger or a thumb on the ridges in the front of the saw, it moves easily. There are ridges on each side also and it looks like that is where one would grab it but grabbing it there seems to lock it in place. It's a "head fake"...

Please try just using the front ridges and report back?

Tom

Tom, that helps a little bit but I still find moving the guard up and down to be awkward.

Frank Pellow · « **Reply #49 on:** September 05, 2013, 08:36 AM »

Quote from: SRSemenza on August 28, 2013, 10:32 AM

Frank,

Great review , can't wait for the rest.

How do you feel about the "open hand" grip on the Carvex barrel grip saws? In other words when I checked one out I noticed that it is more difficult (or not possible) to wrap fingers around under the body of the saw. Hope I explained that well enough.

Seth

Thanks Seth. You are correct about it not being possible to wrap ones fingers under the body of the saw (unless one has very big hands). For me that's not a big deal because I didn't wrap my fingers around that way on either the PS2 or the Trion (although it was possible to do so).

Frank Pellow · « **Reply #50 on:** September 05, 2013, 12:07 PM »

Quote from: AlexR on August 29, 2013, 04:27 AM

Nice review Frank.

Thanks Alex, I am happy that I was given the opportunity to test all these saws.

Quote from: AlexR

I've got the 420 corded barrel , 4 months now and wish i'd gone with d handle. The d handle can be used in same way as barrel grip as in has switch and hand positioning as barrel grip.The switch on my barrel i'm getting use to but have had a few near accidents. The switch works by pushing forward to come on and remains on even if you let go, you have to push forward again to switch off. This helps in fact that the barrel grip is hard to wrap fingers around and hold switch on. Can't see how festool gets around this with all safety regulations now days

As I mentioned in my review, I too was surprised by the position of the switches and the by the 'push forward to shut off' action. I still have not gotten used to this after about 10 hours of use.

Quote from: AlexR

The blade retracting to correct position for ejecting only happens occasional on mine and i just push the blade on a hard service sending blade back into correct position.

Yeh, that works, but I wish that it was not necessary.

Quote from: AlexR

I do find the saw takes longer to do same cut as my makita but does a better job/ quality of cut is quite suprising for a jigsaw. Guides allow very smooth tight curves and cuts at 90'. I am finding if you do any curves it wrecks splinter guide or even changing pendulum seems to do them in. Just another cost to consider. I order the 20 packs now.

I agree that the splinter guards don't seem to last very long. Mostly, I don't use them.

Quote from: AlexR

I find the saw jumpy on pendulum setting 4 feels like i've got down cut blade in. I find the saw cuts better at setting 2. This jumpyness i think comes from higher rpm that the saw runs at.

There is no 4 setting on my saws. I find that they run well at setting 3 and that is what I usually use.

Quote from: AlexR

I hate the strobe so set lights to normal which is a nice feature.

I don't like the stobe when I can see the strobe effect but I usually run the saws at the A (automatic) speed and, with this setting, the stobe is kept in sync with the blade movement and I don't notice it.

Quote from: AlexR

The dust front shroud never stays down on mine ended up duct taping.

I have not had this problem.

Quote from: AlexR

Funny Frank had the angle base screw fall apart as i had same bit fall off first use,been a bit more careful and it hasn't come off again.

Mine only came off the first time, but you can be certain that I am keeping my eye on it.

Quote from: AlexR

I use jigsaw mainly for flooring and roofing.

I use mine for most everything.

Laminator · « **Reply #51 on:** September 05, 2013, 12:49 PM »

Great review! Thanks. I received my D- handle carvex yesterday and just played with it a little and am really impressed as compared to the disappointment of when I first got the trion.

Just wanted to add a tidbit about the D-handle. The trigger lock button, unlike all others before it, is now a safety lock that must be pressed before the trigger will move. I find this to be a major nuisance and very surprised that it is this way.

Frank Pellow · « **Reply #52 on:** September 05, 2013, 03:50 PM »

Quote from: Paul G on August 29, 2013, 10:06 PM

Great read Frank, many thanks. My test request is how tight a clean radius can the carvex cut using the jig. Also sure wish you could get your hands on a Mafell to compare with also.

The tightest radius that I can cut is 6 centimetres. The tape goes down to 4 centimetres but there is no access to the hole where one hammers in the pin until the tape is pulled out to 6 centimetres. The photo below should illustrate this:

The cut, in 15 mm thick Baltic birch plywood and using a S 75/4 fast scrolling blade, was very good (in spite of the fact that I did not use a splinter guard). The resulting disk had an accurate diameter of 12 centimetres and the sides were cut at exactly 90 degrees.

A 12 centimetre diameter circle is certainly small enough for me. I own a whole range of hole saw blades for smaller circles.

Paul G · « **Reply #53 on:** September 05, 2013, 04:00 PM »

Quote from: Frank Pellow on September 05, 2013, 03:50 PM

Quote from: Paul G on August 29, 2013, 10:06 PM
Great read Frank, many thanks. My test request is how tight a clean radius can the carvex cut using the jig. Also sure wish you could get your hands on a Mafell to compare with also.

The tightest radius that I can cut is 6 centimetres. The tape goes down to 4 centimetres but there is no access to the hole where one hammers in the pin until the tape is pulled out to 6 centimetres. The photo below should illustrate this:

(Attachment Link)

The cut, in Baltic birch and using a S 75/4 fast scrolling blade, was very good (in spite of the fact that I did not use a splinter guard). The resulting disk had an accurate diameter of 12 centimetres and the sides were cut at exactly 90 degrees.

A 12 centimetre diameter circle is certainly small enough for me. I own a whole range of hole saw blades for smaller circles.

I'm honored by such a thorough investigation in response to my question, very clear and informative, my thanks to you

NJHW · « **Reply #54 on:** September 05, 2013, 04:08 PM »

Thanks for the great review! How bad is the Carvex without the blower and without using a dust extractor? does the light help to still see your cutting line? Thanks again.

Rick Christopherson · « **Reply #55 on:** September 05, 2013, 04:49 PM »

Quote from: Frank Pellow on September 05, 2013, 03:50 PM

The tightest radius that I can cut is 6 centimetres. The tape goes down to 4 centimetres but there is no access to the hole where one hammers in the pin until the tape is pulled out to 6 centimetres. The photo below should illustrate this:

In the event that you need to go below 60mm, you can always use a screw for your trammel point. The included trammel point is a convenience, but you can use any trammel point you wish.

Frank Pellow · « **Reply #56 on:** September 05, 2013, 04:51 PM »

Quote from: Rick Christopherson on September 05, 2013, 04:49 PM

Quote from: Frank Pellow on September 05, 2013, 03:50 PM

The tightest radius that I can cut is 6 centimetres. The tape goes down to 4 centimetres but there is no access to the hole where one hammers in the pin until the tape is pulled out to 6 centimetres. The photo below should illustrate this:

In the event that you need to go below 60mm, you can always use a screw for your trammel point. The included trammel point is a convenience, but you can use any trammel point you wish.

Right you are Rick. Thanks, I had not thought of that. I will try it.

later: I managed to cut a (good) circle 88 mm in diameter. That's as small as I can manage.

Frank Pellow · « **Reply #57 on:** September 06, 2013, 10:18 AM »

In another thread Tallgrass said: "My beef with the carvex is not being able to cut an angle while using the circle cutter. I was planning on cutting arks with a bevel. I gues I am alone in this. O, well I will figure out how to cut my arch with a bevel some other way. Otherwise I like the saw so far."

There is a way to do this if you are willing to cut the circle twice.

First, cut the circle with a radius 4 mm wider than the final circular piece.

Then, with the butterfly thingy positioned as shown and using a S 75/4 fast scrolling blade:

cut around the entire perimeter of the circle.

My resulting circle in 15 mm Baltic birch plywood is acceptable:

crosscut view:

side view:

It would probably have been even better if I had used a splinter guard.

Paul G · « **Reply #58 on:** September 06, 2013, 11:03 AM »

Quote from: Frank Pellow on September 06, 2013, 10:18 AM

In another thread Tallgrass said: "My beef with the carvex is not being able to cut an angle while using the circle cutter. I was planning on cutting arks with a bevel. I gues I am alone in this. O, well I will figure out how to cut my arch with a bevel some other way. Otherwise I like the saw so far."

There is a way to do this if you are willing to cut the circle twice.

First, cut the circle with a radius 4 mm wider than the final circular piece.

Then, with the butterfly thingy positioned as shown and using a S 75/4 fast scrolling blade:

(Attachment Link)

cut around the entire perimeter of the circle.

My resulting circle in 15 mm Baltic birch plywood is acceptable:

crosscut view:

(Attachment Link)
side view:

(Attachment Link)

It would probably have been even better if I had used a splinter guard.

If the keeper piece is the hole and want it beveled it seems we're out of luck with this tool and may need to turn to something else like a router. At this point I can only hope Festool or a 3rd party later offers a regular angle base that can connect to the circle cutter. Self balancing/supporting and reversing like the Mafell would be even better and dust control would be the icing

GhostFist · « **Reply #59 on:** September 06, 2013, 11:05 AM »

Would the butterfly base end up crushing the edge using this technique? Perhaps not as the leading edge of the circle is not sharp. Your results look good on your given example and probably get better with larger arcs, but for smaller radius do you feel there is more risk of rocking the saw creating a compound angle on the bevel?

Just asking