Author Topic: Domino 500 vs 700  (Read 17332 times)

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Offline rp127777

  • Posts: 24
Domino 500 vs 700
« on: January 21, 2018, 06:46 PM »
Probably been asked, but I didn't find any threads when I searched. Which Domino and why?  I am hobbyist and would like to know the pros and cons.

Thanks,

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Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 1290
Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2018, 07:33 PM »
The 500 light machine for smaller work pice, can cut mortise from 4,6,8,10mm
The 700 bigger machine for bigger work piece, can cut mortise from 8,10,12,14mm apparently there is a module that let you cut 6mm as well. Both use the same accesories. Personally I never use such machine so I went with the 500 and I am verry impressed of how easy it is to use.
Mario

Offline Vondawg

  • Posts: 468
Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2018, 07:42 PM »
Put “500 or xl “ in search and got some good results..I use the xl with a set of smaller bits when needed
There are no mistakes....just new designs.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 9675
Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2018, 07:53 PM »
Probably been asked, but I didn't find any threads when I searched. Which Domino and why?  I am hobbyist and would like to know the pros and cons.

What are you making?

Offline ChuckS

  • Posts: 3511
Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2018, 08:22 PM »
My choice was and will always be the DF500. Not one with Popeye arms, the 500 is much easier and less tiring for me to handle plus it costs much less.

For bigger jobs that even double or triple dominos won't work, I would go with floating tenons cut with a router or mortising machine.

Before the XL came on board, countless woodworkers and furniture makers have lived happily with the DF500.



Offline Rudymejia12

  • Posts: 38
Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2018, 08:40 PM »
I use the 500 quite a bit more. I am lucky to own both. If I had to choose one it would be the 700 with the Seneca small mortise kit. That will make all the cuts you need. Having both is a luxury.

Offline SoonerFan

  • Posts: 533
Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2018, 09:41 PM »
As @Cheese asked, it all depends on what you are going to make with a Domino.  I had no real need (want yes, need no) for the larger size Dominos so I went with the DF500.  Terrific piece of kit. 

Offline ProCarpenterRVA

  • Posts: 151
Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2018, 01:06 PM »
I use the 500 quite a bit more. I am lucky to own both. If I had to choose one it would be the 700 with the Seneca small mortise kit. That will make all the cuts you need. Having both is a luxury.
I'm with Rudy, I have both but I would go with the 700 if I could only have one. Those big tenons are awesome for doors and gates.

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Offline mungk

  • Posts: 18
Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2018, 01:36 PM »
When I was trying to make a decision years ago, I decided to go with the 700 once I found out about adapters. It can do everything the 500 can and more. Now if you aren't gonna be making large items then the 700 would be overkill and you would be paying for the capability.

Online Birdhunter

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Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2018, 02:19 PM »
I have both. I use the 500 more than the 700, but find the 700 excellent for large piece work. I recently build a large bed with a solid oak frame and headboard. The 700 was indispensable for that project. I guess one could double up tenons, but that’s a lot of time spent. I built benches out of Ipe. I’m not sure the 500 would have survived whereas the 700 powered through the hard wood. I find the 500 is much lighter than the 700 and seems to handle better.

Whichever one you buy, I suggest buying the kit with all the cutters and an assortment of tenons. The Seneca thickness adaptors are a worthwhile accessory.
Birdhunter

Offline pwk5017

  • Posts: 21
Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2018, 01:00 PM »
I picked up a 500 a couple years ago and I love using it. However, i find it to be uncomfortable to plunge and grip. I am right handed, and my hand doesnt fit on the barrel and in between the hose connection. I find the grip to be inefficient and tiring over long plunging sessions. When it came time for producing furniture, i found the 500 a little limiting with its height adjustment and domino size. 8mm and 10mm are stout, but they pale in comparison to the size of integral tenons i used to make. Just two weeks ago i was fortunate to find a new in box XL at a great discount. I snatched it up, and i regret not buying this model originally. The ergonomics make it much easier to use. Sure, it weighs quite a bit more, but it is twice as comfortable to use. Besides, how often are you wielding the 500 or 700 with just one hand? Every operation is a two-handed affair, and you dont notice the weight. I definitely notice the updated grip. Im waiting on my seneca adapter, but i kept my old 500 bits and dominoes. I frequently use the smaller sizes for panel alignment and will continue to do so with the adapter. I havent owned it long enough to give a comprehensive comparison, but it is the much better tool of the two. It is similar to how few people own the 2200, but it is the much better router. Dont be intimidated by the weight or size, if you work on medium(chair, end table, nightstand) to large projects(doors, gates, dining tables, beds) then the 700 is the right choice. The price difference definitely sucks, which is what took me so long to buy a 700. I kept waiting and waiting for a used one to pop up on the market. Finally got lucky.

Offline rp127777

  • Posts: 24
Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2018, 06:10 PM »
Thanks everyone for your input.  As I am a hobbyist and to answer some questions, at this point I don't have a specific need or project.  I think it is more of a want than need at this time.  Since my retirement last year, I am tooling up as I do projects around the house and get more into woodworking.  Eventually will do mostly cabinet and built-ins, so think based on all the input I will go for the 500.  I have to be patient though as have spent too much in the last 6 months, since drinking the Kool-Aid. lol.  Great site for feedback from all.

Online Birdhunter

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Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2018, 08:56 PM »
I’ve built lots of cabinets with the 500. Buy the kit with all the cutters and tenons plus a couple of 4 mm extra cutters. Those little cutters tend to lose their tips.

Both New Brit and Halhinchshy have excellent training videos.

Practicing on scrap is a great idea.

Both the 500 and 700 are great tools, but need good technique to get good results.
Birdhunter

Offline online421

  • Posts: 150
Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2018, 03:28 PM »
I like my 700 because the ergonomics is better. I can push in with my belly/hip/chest/knee/leg when needed. you cant do this with 500. you have the power cord in the way.

I have the accessories that allows you to use the smaller cutter.

if you only use it lightly then maybe 500 will suit you.

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Offline ear3

  • Posts: 4265
Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2018, 06:35 AM »
@rp127777 I think the DF500 is probably the right choice for you then.  Unless you plan to make doors or have a need to employ the XL connectors, the DF500 will be more than enough to cover the things you want to fabricate.

Thanks everyone for your input.  As I am a hobbyist and to answer some questions, at this point I don't have a specific need or project.  I think it is more of a want than need at this time.  Since my retirement last year, I am tooling up as I do projects around the house and get more into woodworking.  Eventually will do mostly cabinet and built-ins, so think based on all the input I will go for the 500.  I have to be patient though as have spent too much in the last 6 months, since drinking the Kool-Aid. lol.  Great site for feedback from all.
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Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 789
Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2018, 01:44 AM »
I can tell you what I like and dislike.

I don't like the plunge depth adjustment on the DF500.
I prefer the linear one on the DF700

I don't like the fence locking knobs on the DF500.
The ones on the DF700 are ok.

I don't like the paddle stops on the DF500.
The ones on the DF700 are better.

I don't like lineup visibility on DF700.  I'm 5'11" and can't see the line looking directly overhead.   This is due to the length of the machine.  The DF500 is fine.

I don't like Dominos below 8mm and I specifically would not use a Domino for stock
under 3/4" (18-20mm).   I have, I won't again.  Others will disagree with me.

Most people get the 500, and it covers their needs. There is no reason why it won't be good for furniture.  I have found that armchair woodworkers, like myself, that spend more time on forums than actual woodwork get picky about things like fence stops.  Guys like me buy a DF500, DF700, Lamello Biscuit Joiner and a Mafell DD40 just to never use them.

You will be satisfied with the DF500. 


Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2018, 02:45 AM »
Probably been asked, but I didn't find any threads when I searched. Which Domino and why?  I am hobbyist and would like to know the pros and cons.

Thanks,

This may help:

Part 1:


Part 2:


Peter

Offline Rudymejia12

  • Posts: 38
Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2018, 03:32 PM »
If you ever plan on using the domino connectors then the 700. 

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 9675
Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2018, 05:56 PM »
If you ever plan on using the domino connectors then the 700.

It’s been mentioned before that Festool is working on Domino connectors for the 500.  [cool]

Offline yetihunter

  • Posts: 789
Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2018, 11:53 PM »
Get the 700.

Offline smorgasbord

  • Posts: 54
Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2022, 11:03 PM »
This is a handy chart showing which machines can cut mortises for which tenons:



Note that it doesn't cover the newer small connectors designed for the 500. But, since they're 8mm I would think that the 700 could be used as well.

So, the 700 only doesn't do the 4mm, 5mm, and 6mm dominoes. And while the 500 does 8mm and 10mm, it only does them at the shorter 20mm/25mm depths, which is fine for alignment but maybe not strong enough as a replacement for traditional mortise and tenon joinery in frame and panel joinery or table apron to legs, etc.

On the other side, if you're doing 4mm dominos for alignment, biscuits are the same thickness and will do that job as well. And, if you're going to buy 2 tools to cover the range, I'd argue that a 700 paired with a Lamello Zeta P2 is the more versatile combination. The Lamello P10 knock-down connectors are also more stealth than the smaller Domino connectors. For the few times you really want that 5mm or 6mm joint, the Seneca adapter (with clip on depth limiter) would suffice.

This isn't to say that the 500 isn't right for some, or even most people. I have done entry doors in the past, and may again:
« Last Edit: January 10, 2022, 11:48 PM by smorgasbord »

Offline afish

  • Posts: 1275
Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #22 on: January 12, 2022, 06:31 AM »
I own the 500 and ddf40 I use my ddf40 in lieu of the 700.  While the ddf40 only plunges to 40mm since it uses round holes its easy to make them deeper with a drill bit.  I bought the 12mm drills for the ddf40 and use it to accurately place the starter holes then just send a drill bit down to deepen if needed. Since you already have a nice deep starter hole it keeps the drill bit square. I buy dowel rod and cut to length as needed.  I dont do a lot of bigger stuff but I built a outdoor gate and used this method and it seemed to work well. Simple answer is if you are building mostly cabinets then the 500 is probably the better option.  If you build bigger items ie. doors, large slab tables etc. then the 700.  The 700 will work for cabinet work with the adaptor but its a beast and I wouldnt want it for that.     

Offline woodbutcherbower

  • Posts: 236
Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2022, 05:09 PM »
This is a handy chart showing which machines can cut mortises for which tenons:

(Attachment Link)

Note that it doesn't cover the newer small connectors designed for the 500. But, since they're 8mm I would think that the 700 could be used as well.

So, the 700 only doesn't do the 4mm, 5mm, and 6mm dominoes. And while the 500 does 8mm and 10mm, it only does them at the shorter 20mm/25mm depths, which is fine for alignment but maybe not strong enough as a replacement for traditional mortise and tenon joinery in frame and panel joinery or table apron to legs, etc.

On the other side, if you're doing 4mm dominos for alignment, biscuits are the same thickness and will do that job as well. And, if you're going to buy 2 tools to cover the range, I'd argue that a 700 paired with a Lamello Zeta P2 is the more versatile combination. The Lamello P10 knock-down connectors are also more stealth than the smaller Domino connectors. For the few times you really want that 5mm or 6mm joint, the Seneca adapter (with clip on depth limiter) would suffice.

This isn't to say that the 500 isn't right for some, or even most people. I have done entry doors in the past, and may again:
(Attachment Link)

That’s stellar work. I do the same maybe a dozen times a year. Proper mortise & tenons every tine for me though.

Offline smorgasbord

  • Posts: 54
Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2022, 10:41 PM »
That’s stellar work. I do the same maybe a dozen times a year. Proper mortise & tenons every tine for me though.

Thanks. I used proper mortise and tenons, and even coped the rails for the inside profile. But, it was scary using a handheld plunge router with a 4" long bit going almost 3" deep. I actually had to start with a shorter bit, then swap to the longer bit since the router couldn't retract the long bit all the way. I had shop-made guides, but even so it wasn't fun and the mortises I ended up with were just OK. I milled the tenons on the rails afterwards to fit. I glued the door up with epoxy for waterproofing and to fill any gaps with strength. BTW, the dual rail design for the bottom and top was done with the top mortise of the top rail and bottom mortise of the bottom rail in each pair glued and the mortises in the middle left unglued to account for wood movement. The two rails are tongue and grooved to fit into each other, creating the gap. In the 20 odd years the door's been in place I haven't noticed that gap change. I toyed with the idea of some black silicone to fill in the gap, or maybe even a piece of ebony.

Anyway, if I were building this door today, I'd use my new Domino XF without hesitation.

Since I talked about the Lamello Zeta earleri, anyone here have one and care to comment on build quality vs Festool?

As part of my recent full-on conversion to metric, I just reconfigured my tablesaw sled and mitersaw fence to use metric Inca racks, and had occasion to use both 8mm dominos and Lamello "S" biscuits. The Domino is my first Festool tool, and while it's built pretty well, the trim stop fence is all plastic, as is the stability foot. Overall I feel my Lamello Top 20 joiner, while obviously more limited in what it can do, is built better than the Festool Domino joiner, and the accessory right angle fence is all machined metal. Not that the Festool is bad by any means, but at these price levels my expectations are high. I'm not a production shop so longevity for both will be fine, but commercial shops might see a difference, particularly as tools get abused more there.
 


Offline woodbutcherbower

  • Posts: 236
Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2022, 05:39 PM »
Thanks everyone for your input.  As I am a hobbyist and to answer some questions, at this point I don't have a specific need or project.  I think it is more of a want than need at this time.  Since my retirement last year, I am tooling up as I do projects around the house and get more into woodworking.

Then forget about equipment just for now, and learn how to do some simple woodworking first. Cutting straight lines, doing set-outs, measuring accurately, how to do dead-square or accurate miter angles - the Week #1 Lesson #1 basic stuff. Throwing $$$$$ at equipment will never compensate for a lack of fundamental understanding and an ability to perform the basics. There isn't a jointer in the world (Domino included) which will give a good result on an out-of-square joint. The principal downside of the FOG is that it endlessly pains me to see contributors trying to persuade you to spend s***loads of your money (which I'm sure you've worked very, very hard for) on equipment without having the faintest idea or clue regarding your individual needs or ability. Buying a megabucks baseball bat won't instantly make you Babe Ruth. You gotta at least learn how to hit the ball first …..
« Last Edit: January 19, 2022, 07:48 AM by woodbutcherbower »

Online Birdhunter

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Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2022, 07:16 AM »
I built nice stuff for years without a Domino. I guess the first big tool I bought was a Sears radial arm saw. It tried to kill me several times so I traded it in for a Delta table saw later replaced with a monster SawStop. Then a small jointer and a table top planer. They departed to make room for a honking big helical head jointer and a massive helical head planer. I did keep the small band saw after the enormous band saw arrived. The 2 bag type dust collectors said goodby to two Oneida cyclones. My allergies immediately disappeared. My biscuit cutter said farewell to the 500 Domino who was later joined by the 700. Numerous Home Depot tools were replaced with Festool and many of the older tools went to new woodworkers whom I was infecting with the bug.At lease I started with an end game lathe instead of going small then big. If there is a moral to this story is that i did it the most expensive way possible. I bought cheap/small, ditched, then bought an end game tool. I essentially paid  1 and 1/2 for each tool.
Birdhunter

Offline Lincoln

  • Posts: 217
Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2022, 09:31 PM »

[/quote]
Since I talked about the Lamello Zeta earleri, anyone here have one and care to comment on build quality vs Festool?
[/quote]

Build quality is night and day, with the DF500 vs any Lamello machine. The 700 is closer, but still behind.


Offline Brian Livingstone

  • Posts: 211
Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2022, 03:00 PM »
Hi,

I have the good fortune to own a Lamello Zeta P2, a DF500 and a DF700.   I think all three tools are amazing, a joy to use and produce excellent results.   The Zeta P2 is as solid of a tool that I own.   I can’t possibly see how one could think anything less of the DF500.  If I was forced to choose one, I would probably choose the DF700.   I think with the 8 to 14 mm range, and the versatility of the DF700 connectors it would be first choice.   
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Offline JimD

  • Posts: 512
Re: Domino 500 vs 700
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2022, 01:37 PM »
I have a 700 with the Seneca adapter and bits from 14mm to 5mm.  If I ever need the 4mm I will get one (Amana or CMT, not Festool).  I have never used a 500 but I am very comfortable with just using the 700.  It isn't light but is lighter than my DeWalt track saw.  When you are using the domino your work supports the weight of the machine.  I've used my domino for casework including drawers and beds and a gate.  The biggest limitation of the 500 IMHO is the depth of the mortise it will make.  25mm or 1 inch just isn't deep enough for things like table aprons.  Even another 1/4 inch adds significant strength.  I also make my own tenons and they are often much wider than Festools pre-made ones.  Again it's a strength issue. 

I've successfully made mortises with a plunge router and a hollow chisel mortiser but my domino is much, much faster and makes mortises as nice as I got from my plunge router.  Both are smoother than a hollow chisel mortiser.  The only risk I see is in getting too tied to pre-made tenons.  When the project needs a wider one, it is better to make them than to double or tripple up the little ones.  But the pre-made ones are convenient. 

With a 700 you can do big or little projects, with a 500 you are limited to little ones.