Author Topic: CXS vs Bosch PS20 Drills  (Read 18602 times)

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Offline fifo28

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CXS vs Bosch PS20 Drills
« on: June 10, 2011, 09:20 AM »
I am sure you have all seen the reviews on the CXS by Paul, Brice and others.  Those reviews are great and all I am looking to do is add my findings after using the drill and comparing it to a very good Bosch PS20 drill, which I believe is right in line with the CXS in terms of direct competition.  BTW this is a seat of the pants review - all of my scientific equipment was getting recalibrate so it was unavailable.  This is purely on - on the job review.  Also, important to note is that I have had the Bosch 20 a 30 for a few years and this has been my main drill.

Size/weight - Both drills are almost identical in size and weight.  The CXS is a bit thinner around the motor.  The Bosch looks like it would get into tighter areas only because it does not have the battery in front of your hand like the CXS, so technically its smaller in width.  But honestly while using it, the battery was never a problem.  I will also add, that while holding both drills they seem identical in weight and size yet the CXS feels lighter in use.

Torque - Both apply torque in the same way, with the dial on the collar of the drill.  I believe (again by the seat of my pants) that the CXS has more torque (and fewer settings (10 vs 20).

Use - In use the CXS is significantly better.  It is hard to describe but the Festool drills (I also own the T15) are refined.  They simply run smoother.  The simple analogy is that the Bosch (and other drills I have used) feel like a street fighter.  Gritty, big and tough yest the Festool feels like a karate expert, just as dangerous (if not more so) but better trained and disciplined.

Anyway, that's my $0.02 hope you find it helpful.

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Offline GhostFist

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Re: CXS vs Bosch PS20 Drills
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2011, 10:00 AM »
I previosly owned the milwaukee 12v driver (died within a tear) the rigid 12v (returned within two weeks, faulty batteries. I exchanged my original drill for a replacement within this time but had the same problem so gave up on that brand) and last the Bosch 12v, which burned out a few months back after about a year of use. As you can see none of these drills to date have lasted as long as i would have liked. I would have replaced the milwaukee batteries but for tthe price of them you might as well get a new drill altogether. Rigid cordless tools are just pure rubbish IMO, I also own a 24v Rigid combo set, and would never buy another Cordless Rigid product again despite their supposed lifetime warrantee. The bosch i believe was killed by dust, I admittedly was using it in a harsher environment for which it was probably meant to be in, during demolition, but I didn't have a need for a full sized drill on the site at that phase and just need the odd screw  pulled. None the less dead.

So the life of these drills is a concern of mine as I've had three different makes fail on me. I like these micro drills in my pouch at all times for reasons previously stated, light weight, easier to work with on ladders and in tight spaces, the cons for them that I noticed is that they drive slower than standard drills which leaves you falling behind when you and someone else are screwing something together, and their overall build construction which all three makers have failed on IMO.

If I were to invest in a CXS, how would it compare with the other makers in these categories? I'm not going to be auguring 1" holes in 4x4 pressure treated lumber with the thing. I'd mainly be driving 1 1/2" - 3" #8 screws into pine as well as cabinet installation. When working in film, we're driving alot of screws on a daily basis, as i said mainly 1 1/2", for set assembly. I do take care of my equipment but at the same time I expect it to take a kicking should the need arise. if I were to invest $300 into this drill, will I be satisfied????

Offline PeterK

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Re: CXS vs Bosch PS20 Drills
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2011, 10:33 AM »
I have only had mine for a couple days now. Unless you REALLY need the right angle chuck, I would pass on it and save the $50US. No complaints at all with it's performance. Great shop driver and wonderful for installers. I would always have a more powerful drill available for the big tasks but this CXS covers 90-95% of all my needs.
I like the front LED light and sure wish my T12 and T15 had it. The belt clip is really long and gives me confidence when clipped to my pocket or belt that I won't loose it. Found the belt clip slides nicely into the T-track on my MFT/3 so is always at hand in the shop. I also have the Bosch 10.8-12 volt drill and impact. I prefer using the belt clip versus trying to stuff the Bosch into my pocket. Personally, at this time, I think the pricing on the CXS is the most reasonable of all the Festool products excepting for the RAS.
Pete

Offline WarnerConstCo.

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Re: CXS vs Bosch PS20 Drills
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2011, 10:37 AM »
I am sorry but, the bosch ps20 was total garbage.

I bought one thought it was going to be awesome and stopped using it about 2 weeks later.

I gave it away.  I tried the makita's, milwuake's and even another cheap knock off.  All I got out of all of those was that I really hated compact drills.

I have been using the CXS for several months now.  Just this week I used it all day to install the hidden clips for a hardwood deck.  All day, one battery easy.

I hate to admit it but, I am really liking the CXS (especially because of the extra chucks).  Please don't tell my friends that I a may end up liking a compact drill.

Offline Timtool

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Re: CXS vs Bosch PS20 Drills
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2011, 01:45 PM »
i had the ps20-2 for about a year until someone asked to buy it over and i got myself the CXS instead.
so i never had both simultaneously, but i actually like the little bugger though it lacked some torque.
both tools give me a totally different feeling, the bosch felt small tough and fat, i occasionally used it as a hammer... and the torque setting was more precise.
the festool feels a bit more delicate though it's got more guts. it also feels bigger. and it's LED actually illuminates where you drill.
but to me the two are in a different class, the PS 20 is a compact pocket driver and the CXS is a compact drill.
you would need to compare the CXS with the PS 31 really, it has 2 speeds more toque, battery indicator and a normal chuck.
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Offline GhostFist

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Re: CXS vs Bosch PS20 Drills
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2011, 03:22 PM »
just played with the CXS at Atlas and im sold. picking one up next week

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: CXS vs Bosch PS20 Drills
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2011, 05:04 PM »
I owned the PS20 and it worked out okay for me but I was never thrilled.  I liked the idea of being able to put the PS20 in my tool belt, somehow that rarely worked out since I always wanted other tools in my belt instead.  Like the op said the weight is about the same but there's no comparison between the two in terms of versatility.  AS for durability of the CXS, time will tell.

I'm in the same boat as Darcy, I'm surprised I like the CXS as much as I do.        
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline mntbighker

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Re: CXS vs Bosch PS20 Drills
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2011, 01:25 PM »
Had mine for 1 day. I did a minor job rebuilding the cat tree replacing the garbage imported plywood. I got the CXS from Marino to save the tax but I also like to give my business to the local small dealer because they rent out their wood shop. And they have a robo-router and a laser. Anyway... I love the CXS but here are my minor niggles. The magnet bit holder only holds onto full length bits well enough. Short bits move around and seem like they will eventually get lost. As always I'm irritated that centrotec is SO similar to North American type bits. Centrotecs cost a mint and there is no provision to use our "Merican style" bits. Of course lately the American style bits are coming in all manner of non-standard double ended junk that won't fit most of the holders that are meant to hold them. The main thing is the CXS is very affordable for having 2 batteries and it seams built like a swiss watch. I like the T-lock systainer but I really think Festool could do even better with a stacking system that gives access to the whole stack. And of course I'm stuck with all my thumb busting old style boxes. I think the box liner could use some better bit storage than 5 or 6 molded ones. I really need to fab me something for all the darn bits. Oh, and still no centrotec square drive bits :-(  For the cat tree job I used the CXS, TS55, Kapex, Sawzall and assorted knives and guns. Staple I mean ;-)
Festoolian since November 2007

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Offline Alex

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Re: CXS vs Bosch PS20 Drills
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2011, 02:13 PM »
As always I'm irritated that centrotec is SO similar to North American type bits. Centrotecs cost a mint and there is no provision to use our "Merican style" bits.

Just a little question, what exactly is so similar about Centrotec to American style bits, and why does that irritate you? Why can't you use "Merican style" bits with Centrotec? There's both a magnetic and a locking centrotec bit holder that can hold ANY standard 1/4'' bit on the planet, including Robertson bits.

Offline GhostFist

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Re: CXS vs Bosch PS20 Drills
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2011, 03:01 PM »
ya I'm not too thrilled with the locking bit holder but again I haven't put my CXS through the full rigors of a days work (tomorrow). the magnet seems to hold well enough, while i don't normally use those kinds of bits I'm on my way to pick some up now just so I can store a couple of different ones on the tool itself. As for the systainer insert i was actually impressed with how many bits you could store in there. Of course it wont hold your entire collection of bits but certainly enough of the most frequently used ones. Will the 4 drawer sortainer hold the CXS insert? that might be a good option.

On a side note, I love how on the picture showing you how to place things in the insert, the chord seems so neatly tucked underneath the charger when in actuality it's impossible to do that. No big concern, but I hate mucking with chords trying to get them neatly back into boxes.

Offline GhostFist

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Re: CXS vs Bosch PS20 Drills
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2011, 03:04 PM »
oh ya and so far this blows the now completely useless old PS20 of mine out of the water, but again a proper days work will be a truer test.

Offline Climberken

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Re: CXS vs Bosch PS20 Drills
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2011, 08:24 AM »
I have had the CXS set for a month, very impressed as with all the festool products I own. I have 2-PS20 drivers that still are useful for various projects. There really isn't much of a comparison between the two other then there size. I also have the impact version of the Bosch which I have used quite a bit for long screws. This is my first review/comparison so be nice [unsure]

Uses and justification for the PS20 over the CXS- when the neighbor wants to borrow a driver, this is probably the best reason to keep it. When there is a possibility of losing the driver. When it's tossed in the bottom of a tool bucket for just in case use. It's an inexpensive driver that works, and I don't worry about beating it up, breaking, or losing it, not that I would want to.

I found the CXS "inexpensive" in comparison to my T12+3. Just completed a basement finishing project, I had all the drills, drivers ready to go to give them the "test". I also had a 18 volt Dewalt......I never use it anymore.  I found myself reaching for the CXS over any of the choices, partially because it was the new toy but also it just did the majority of the tasks flawlessly. It's lightweight,  small, has plenty of power for most tasks, and with the right angle attachment makes for a great package. the only reason I picked up the T12 was when I needed the extra power. The T12 is still well worth having for the work horse drill, you can just tell it is going to last. Only time will tell if the CXS will be the mini work horse it seems to be.


Offline Julian Tracy

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Re: CXS vs Bosch PS20 Drills
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2011, 01:27 PM »
Most recent Tool of the Trade issue reviewed the 10.8/12volt drivers/impact kits out right now.  Bosch and Festool came out at the bottom for power/torque and balance.

I notice the rpms are real low on it as well - anything less than 1400 or so really limits the usefulness of a cordless drill imo.

Of course, they didn't get their cxs free either, so there's that.... :)

Seriously though, I picked one up recently and it certainly had a nice feel to it. 

JT

Offline andy5405

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Re: CXS vs Bosch PS20 Drills
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2011, 03:16 AM »
Most recent Tool of the Trade issue reviewed the 10.8/12volt drivers/impact kits out right now.  Bosch and Festool came out at the bottom for power/torque and balance.

I notice the rpms are real low on it as well - anything less than 1400 or so really limits the usefulness of a cordless drill imo.

Of course, they didn't get their cxs free either, so there's that.... :)

Seriously though, I picked one up recently and it certainly had a nice feel to it.  

JT

I had a look at the Tools of the Trade review and was surprised to see the Festool score so low on performance. I figured that it may be a biased publication but they certainly seem to rate other Festool gear. I have a lot of Festool stuff on my wish list but the drills don't feature at the moment. I would like to try a T15 though as a possible replacement for my old Dewalt 18v that gets called into action on the rare occasions that I don't use either my corded Milwaukee SDS or 10.8v Bosch. Do any of the Festool cordless drills have a hammer action?

Offline justinmcf

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Re: CXS vs Bosch PS20 Drills
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2011, 04:11 AM »
Hi Andy.

I recommend you look at Festool's sister company Protool.
They have hammer action cordless drill's and they are made in the same Festool factory in Wendlingen, Germany.

Justin.

Offline andy5405

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Re: CXS vs Bosch PS20 Drills
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2011, 05:29 AM »
They do look the business. I have just counted up all my drills and I have an alarming 13 of them and actually only really use 2 most of the time.

I have:

dewalt 12v driver
dewalt 12v driver
dewalt 12v impact
dewalt 18v combi
dewalt 18v right angle drill
hitachi sds 240v
milwaukee sds 240v
bosch 10.8v drill driver
bosch 10.8v driver
bosch 10.8v driver
bosch 10.8v right angle driver
bosch 10.8v impact
bosch hammer drill 240v

The Bosch 10.8v driver, and drill driver get the most use along with the Milwauke corder SDS. Of the rest I occsionally use the Bosch 10.8v right angle driver, Dewalt 12v impact and Dewalt 18v combi. The rest are never used. I guess I could do some ebaying and buy whatever I want as replacements.

Any suggestions? Weight is really a big factor for me and I would like to have a lightweight combi that hammers and is powerful. Maybe the CXS and 18v Protool combi could be the answer. That should do almost eveything and the Milwauke SDS fill in the gaps. From 13 to 3 would be good! The T15/18's just don't cut it or me. A drill that size has to be able to do masonry to be useful to me.

Offline Ken Nagrod

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Re: CXS vs Bosch PS20 Drills
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2011, 09:33 AM »
I read the Tools of the Trade tool test article.  First, the torque tests that PTI does with the CDI test equipment is a reliable means of comparison and accuracy.  I looked into purchasing the CDI gear several years ago for my testing and found it costs thousands of dollars for each unit and you would need several of them for the different torque ranges similar to how a torque wrench is made for a limited torque range.  Too costly for me.  I'd rather spend that money on more Festool goodies.

While the article's writer, Michael Springer, stated that the Festool CXS had a low 107 in. lb. torque score, had poor lighting at the very end of the chucked bit and felt nose heavy with the standard, Jacobs style chuck, he stated that the drill was in the second tier rating.  It was not at the bottom, overall.  I don't see anything that shows bias here, one way or the other towards any brand or against the Festool CXS.  It seems quite legitimate and consider that most users of the CXS will have the Centrotec chuck installed most of the time, which changes the tool's balance and size.

Just because most of us love Festool products and have a loyalty towards the company doesn't mean that we should poo-poo any test that doesn't have our beloved Festools on top with flying colors and endless accolades.  I've said this before.  It's not just about the specs, it's about the specs and how the tool feels and performs in YOUR hands that matters.  If the CXS blows you away, great.  If you prefer something else, hey as long as you're happy with your choice, that's all that matters.

Offline justinmcf

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Re: CXS vs Bosch PS20 Drills
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2011, 04:17 PM »
I agree with you Ken.
It looks like a solid reliable test.

Though I am disappointed that the writer of this article did not include Hilti in this test.
Hilti in my eyes, is the only other company that competes at the same level as Festool.
Price and specifications are pretty similar and they are both manufactured in Germany.

I would really like to see a side by side comparison of the Hilti and Festool cordless tools.

Justin.

Offline Ken Nagrod

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Re: CXS vs Bosch PS20 Drills
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2011, 04:28 PM »
Justin,

I've never seen a 10.8/12 volt Hilti here, unless I've just been blind to it while perusing Home Depot.

Offline justinmcf

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Re: CXS vs Bosch PS20 Drills
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2011, 04:35 PM »
My bad Ken!
It's 6.30 am here!

I forgot we are talking about 10.8 volt tools.

But I would still like to see some real side by side tests between Hilti and Festool with their respective 14.4 volt and 18 volt tools.

By the way, can you purchase Hilti tools in Home depot?
We dont have Home Depot here yet, but I believe they are one of many U.S. companies beating down the door and will be coming soon to Australia.
In Australia, Hilti is only available in Hilti Tool shops. They are not available in normal tool shops.

Justin.

« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 05:21 PM by justinmcf »

Offline Ken Nagrod

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Re: CXS vs Bosch PS20 Drills
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2011, 04:37 PM »
Yes, we can still get Hilti at the Home Depots by me.  HD's coming to a town near you?  I'm sorry.  [big grin]

Offline GhostFist

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Re: CXS vs Bosch PS20 Drills
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2011, 05:04 PM »
Home Depot sucks! Start protesting

Offline Timtool

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Re: CXS vs Bosch PS20 Drills
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2011, 05:15 PM »
the test didn't take all the aspects in account, what good is a compact drill that can screw a couple more screws than the CXS when it can't reach the area.
that is the real advantage of the CXS to me, when the battery is flat you take the other one, when you need to screw or drill in a tight spot then you fit the angle chuck. it's the only one that can do that.
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Offline justinmcf

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Re: CXS vs Bosch PS20 Drills
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2011, 05:27 PM »
Home Depot sucks! Start protesting


At the moment we have 1 company in Australia who have a monopoly with regards to hardware and tools.
That company is called Bunnings.
I am looking forward to these big U.S. companies coming to Australia.
Any competition is better than no competition.
You can be sure that Bunnings will be reducing their prices to compete in this market.
That has to be a good thing for consumers.

Sorry for hi-jacking this thread.

Justin.