Author Topic: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills  (Read 73413 times)

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Offline Joe Fusco

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Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2008, 04:03 PM »
Eiji,

From some other people I know who have owed Panasonic drills, they have always had good things to say. So I don't doubt that the drill you state is a good one. I just did that test with the drills I had on hand. I'm sure that drills by Hilti and even Metabo would do a good up against a C12.
Former Fat Guy with a C12. . . .
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Offline Eiji Fuller

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Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2008, 11:24 PM »
Joe,
If you can buy a drill that out performs the C12, with newer technology, for half the price, why in the heck would anyone buy a C12?

Offline Barry

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Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2008, 03:46 AM »
Eiji F can you provide a link to the documentation detailing the technology that goes into the Panasonic drills.  I was poking around on there site and couldn't find anything that mentioned the brushless motor and such.  One down side to lithium from what I've heard is cold weather performance, which the C12 wouldn't suffer from nearly as much...
Central NJ

Offline Steveo48

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Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2008, 07:26 AM »
Maybe it is just me, but the biggest tool in the video was the guy wearing the flannel.....  Also he leaned pretty hard on that dewalt while cutting, which he didn't do with the C12.  Not to mention the fact that you heard the C12 cut off with a beep many times and yet he kept double slapping the trigger until it started back up.  Nothing useful could be gained by watching that video and I stopped half way through.  Matter of fact I want to know where to send the bill for the 4 minutes of my life I wasted watching that guy abuse cordless drills....
;D Now I don't care who you are, that's funny right there! ;D

How many times in your life are you going to drill a hole that big in oak, and do you need a $400.00+ cordless drill to do it?  I'm reaching for my 1/2" corded drill or drill press.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2008, 07:37 AM by Steveo48 »

Offline Steveo48

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Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2008, 07:36 AM »
.....
festool claims that you can't hurt the motor on the c12. working with the c12 for almost 3 years now,i believe it!


I think it's amazing we have to create a drill to protect it from the operator.

Steve

Offline Corwin

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Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2008, 05:46 PM »
I think it's amazing we have to create a drill to protect it from the operator.

Steve

Hmmm, I would think the need rather clear when we see how people attempt to force a drill through their material as opposed to letting the tool cut its way.

Offline mastercabman

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Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2008, 05:55 PM »
.....
festool claims that you can't hurt the motor on the c12. working with the c12 for almost 3 years now,i believe it!


I think it's amazing we have to create a drill to protect it from the operator.

Steve
after burning cordless drills by manufactuer claiming that their tools are "HEAVY DUTY"(dewalt,milwaukee,...) i think we do need to create a drill that can stand the use and abuse from the operator.
I don't understand!?! I keep cutting it,and it's still too short!

Offline Ned

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Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2008, 06:22 PM »
I think it's amazing we have to create a drill to protect it from the operator.

"Normal abuse" is a valuable design concept.  It says "We all know that this tool shouldn't be used in this way.  We also know it will be."

A quality product should be able to withstand normal abuse.

Ned

Offline brandon.nickel

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Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2008, 09:07 PM »
Ned,

Is there such a thing as "normal abuse"?  This sounds self-contradictory to me.  If one was in the habit of normally "abusing" their tools, perhaps they're using the wrong tool for the job?  A tool performing its intended function is not being abused.

?

-Brandon
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Offline Ned

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Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2008, 11:29 PM »
Is there such a thing as "normal abuse"?  This sounds self-contradictory to me.  If one was in the habit of normally "abusing" their tools, perhaps they're using the wrong tool for the job?  A tool performing its intended function is not being abused.
-Brandon

Yes.  Normal abuse is abuse, but it's so common that it needs to be taken into account.  You may not use screwdrivers as pry bars, and I don't use screwdrivers as pry bars, but a general purpose screwdriver that shatters the first time it's used as a lever isn't a very good one.  This wouldn't apply to, say, gunsmithing screwdrivers because it's reasonable to expect a 'smith to know better.

Normal abuse is the reason for the protective circuitry in the C12 (and other Festools).  The manufacturer can't protect the tool against all the kinds of normal abuse, which is why many of us don't lend our Festools.

Ned

Offline Eiji Fuller

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Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #40 on: February 21, 2008, 12:45 AM »
Eiji F can you provide a link to the documentation detailing the technology that goes into the Panasonic drills.  I was poking around on there site and couldn't find anything that mentioned the brushless motor and such.  One down side to lithium from what I've heard is cold weather performance, which the C12 wouldn't suffer from nearly as much...

Barry,
Check out the press release http://www.panasonic.com.au/whats_new/media/details.cfm?detailsID=342&selectYear=2006

Eiji

Offline Forrest Anderson

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Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #41 on: February 21, 2008, 02:05 AM »
Is there such a thing as "normal abuse"?  This sounds self-contradictory to me.  If one was in the habit of normally "abusing" their tools, perhaps they're using the wrong tool for the job?  A tool performing its intended function is not being abused.

I would suggest that on many jobsites, things get abused as a matter of routine (my definition of abuse here is where things may get damaged by using them in ways they were not designed for).

For example...

A toolbox might be designed to carry tools, but many workmen will stand on it rather than go and hunt out a more suitable set of steps or platform. It is therefore a good idea to purchase toolboxes that can bear a man's weight (eg Systainers).

The same can be said of powertools, incl drills. A workman will often try to use the wrong tool for a job to save him the hassle of going to find the right tool - especially if he has to go to the other end of a jobsite, in the rain, and then wait until some other guy stops using it! The drill that he is currently holding might be underpowered for the task, but even if it takes longer to drill a hole, he'll still try to do it to save the delay and discomfort of getting the right tool. It is therefore a good idea to have a drill that won't break down when it is overloaded, and the C12 is a good example of this.

So yes, I'd agree that in certain areas tools do suffer from normal abuse - especially if the "abuser" hasn't paid for the tools himself!

Forrest


Compiler of the Consolidated List of Festool Links - the place to go for Festool reviews, manuals, brochures and videos!

Offline bustedbolt

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Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #42 on: February 21, 2008, 12:51 PM »
Panasonic clarification:

my impression was that the panasonic IMPACT is brushless design....
but the drill is not.
I haven't heard from anyone with LONGTERM PROFESSIONAL use of these drills and I'm waiting.

sorry for OT post.
nice vid joe!
I recently found myself with a 4inch holesaw and some MDF... I picked a corded hilti drill with a side handle and an EASY to control the low speed trigger to keep me from brakeing my wrists.

I just saw those single tooth Lennox holesaws and they sure look smart.

Brian

Offline Joe Fusco

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Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #43 on: February 21, 2008, 07:29 PM »
Eiji,

Like bustedbolt I could only find a reference to a brush less Impact drive and not a drill.
Former Fat Guy with a C12. . . .
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Offline Eiji Fuller

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Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2008, 01:16 AM »

OK, The panasonic drill looks to have some brushes and the impact is brushless. Both drill and impact use heat sensors to cut power to the motors before overheating and have the best battery system available. The clutch on the panasonic drills are the best I have used. I have used makita, bosch, dewalt, panasonic, and have tried out the C12 but do not have extensive experience with it.

The price of the panasonic 3.0 Ah 14.4V Li ion Drill and impact driver is 375.00

The price of the C12 3.0 Ah 12V NiMH(1995 technology) is 395.00.

I am not saying the C12 is not a very good drill, all I am saying is it is not the best.
There are pros and cons.

C12 vs Panasonic pros-
Accessory chucks (extra cost)
comes with a nice systainer

C12 vs Panasonic cons-
Cost
No impact driver included
outdated battery technology
exorbitant cost of bits
square drive bits unavailable
inability to use standard bits unless you buy another chuck

IMHO the cost of the C12 is not justified by its benefits.

Eiji


Offline Dan Clark

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Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2008, 10:39 AM »
Eiji,

I have the C12.   I agree with some of your points, especially the battery technology.  Regarding the Panasonic, I assume that you are referring to the Panasonic EY7542LN2L combo drill/impact driver.  It looks like a nice tool.  However, you're review of the C12 vs the Panasonic was off the mark in several areas:

C12 vs Panasonic pros:
Accessory chucks (extra cost) - IMO, this is a MAJOR pro for the C12 and a MAJOR con for Panasonic and most (all?) other drills.   The C12's quick-disconnect chucks provide a lot of flexibility not available on other drills.   The right-angle, eccentric, and depth-stop chuck allow me to do things not possible with other drills or without buying a specialized drill.

Want to get up close and personal with the side of a cabinet?  The C12's eccentric chuck allows that.   Panasonic?  Nope.  Very tight space?  Use the C12's right angle chuck.   Panasonic?  Nope.     

Need to use a standard drill bit?  Use the C12's Fast Fix, Jacobs-style chuck.   With this chuck you can use virtually ANY bit.   Panasonic?  Nope! It's fixed!  ONLY quick-disconnect! (Or if you're referring to the drill, then only the FIXED Jacobs style.)

C12 has much shorter head length - The head of the C12 is only 6" long.  With a 1" screw bit, the  total head length is 6.5".   The Panasonic's head with a 1" bit (I assume that it can use a 1" bit) will be 8" long.    For tight spaces, that's an issue.

C12 on-board bit storage - Up to six 1" bits can be stored in two magnetic slots the C12's handle.  I keep six bits in mine all the time.  Panasonic?   None that I can see.

C12 vs Panasonic  cons
exorbitant cost of bits - Pardon me!?! I use standard 1" wire-detent bits available in any BORG or hardware store.  I have Torx, square-drive, Phillips, Pozidrive, and flat-bladed bits that work perfectly. 

Want to use ball-detent bits?  Add the BHS 65 bit holder.  I use it with:
- Insty-Bits
- Space drill bits
- 2", 3" and 4" square-drive, Torx, and Phillips head bits
- 1/4 & 3/8 socket adapters.

square drive bits unavailable - Incorrect.   Multiple options. See above.

inability to use standard bits unless you buy another chuck - Completely incorrect.  Industry-standard 1" wire-detent bits fit in the CentroTec (standard with every C12).   The Fast Fix chuck (standard with every C12) allows you to use pretty much any drill or screw bit.   You can use ball-detent bits with the several of the chucks, but the BHS 65 ($25) bit holder is specifically made to use ball-detent bits (see above).

I have a Makita BTD142HW 18V Impact Driver.  I won't argue that it is better than the Panasonc, but the head is only 5-3/4" long, it's 2.8 (vs 3.6 lbs), and the battery charges in 15 minutes (vs 50 minutes).   The Makita Impact Driver works very well for me.

There are several areas where the C12 could be improved and I won't argue value with anyone.   And, I'm sure that you know dozens of workarounds for the Panasonic's limitations (I see several).  I have dozens of workarounds for the C12's limitations too. 

If you want to argue that the Panasonic is superior because of it's battery technology or because they offer a combo drill and impact driver, that's fine.   However, the rest of your arguments about the Panasonic's superiority over C12 are "suboptimal". 

I'm big into flexibility - useful in a large number of situations.   C12 flexibility?  A solid 10.   Panasonic and almost all other drills?  Maybe a 3-4.   

All of this is...  IMO.

Regards,

Dan.

p.s., I spent a couple minutes digging out SOME of my bits and all of my C12 chucks.   This pic shows some of the bits that I've used with my C12:
4530-0

This closeup of my bit box shows the different types of bits that I have, including square drive and some specialty bits:
4532-1

This pic shows the C12 chucks:
- In the upper right is a BHS 65 with a ball-detent 3/8 drive socket adapter.   
- The right angle chuck has a Torx bit installed directly into the end.  I've used it this way in dozens of tight spots. 
- The CentroTec chuck just to the right of the right-angle chuck has a small 1" slot screw bit installed.  It attaches directly to the C12 OR the right-angle chuck.   
- In the upper left is the old-style Jacobs "Fast Fix" chuck that virtually all other standard drills use.   
- In the lower left is the eccentric chuck with the Depth Stop chuck just to the right.
- Note the 1" wire detent square drive bit installed directly into the C12.   I've used this configuration dozens (hundreds?) of times in very tight situations where I need all of the torque.
- On the handle of the C12, you can see three of the six bits in their magnetic slot.
4534-2


« Last Edit: February 22, 2008, 11:27 AM by Dan Clark »

Offline Dave Ronyak

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Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #46 on: February 22, 2008, 08:47 PM »
I think it's amazing we have to create a drill to protect it from the operator.

"Normal abuse" is a valuable design concept.  It says "We all know that this tool shouldn't be used in this way.  We also know it will be."

A quality product should be able to withstand normal abuse.

Ned


You gentlemen are fortunate that newsman Edwin Newman is deceased.  He's probably rolling over in his grave.  To me, normal use does not include abuse.  If intstead you categorize some uses as more severe than others, they can still be within the range of what is considered normal use.  And any use outside of that range would be abuse.  Just my $0.02 on linguistics.

Dave R.

Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline Ned

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Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #47 on: February 22, 2008, 09:10 PM »
...To me, normal use does not include abuse...

I wholeheartedly agree, Dave.  No one's even mentioned the term normal use until now, and no one has contended that normal abuse somehow falls into the range of correct use.  In fact, I said "Normal abuse is abuse."

I think the term normal is the stumbling block.  Normal does not imply that something is correct, admirable, or even acceptable; it simply means "occurs frequently" or "is common"...or a slightly more precise mathematical definition.

Big Ed's probably spinning for many reasons, but not necessarily this one.   :D

Ned

Offline Dave Ronyak

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Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #48 on: February 22, 2008, 09:21 PM »
Dan,

Yours is a fantastic collection of bits and chuck and a great comparative explanation of the pros and cons of the C12 system compared to Panasonic and others.

Today at Hartville Tool's sale I spoke with a Panasonic factory rep and played with several different drills and drivers.  Those who commented that Panasonic's new 14.4 V Lion powered impact driver is brushless and the accompanying drill in that set is not.  I did not like the placement of the LED light on this series of tool, and the forward/reverse button placement may interfere with how I prefer to grip this tool.  This lightweight brushless impact driver puts out ~1400 in-lbs torque.  And the battery is alledged to be capable of ~3500 or more recharge/discharge cycles, far more than NiCAD or NiMH technology.   Additionally, Panasonic claims their LiON batteries will hold their charge much better than NiCAD or NiMH during prolonged storage, which I find of interest because my usage as a hobbyist is sporadic rather than daily.  The flashlight that came with my Makita battery powered drill set gets far more use than the drill, because all members of my family use it in preference to any other flashlight.

For those who want as close as exists today an all-in-one drill/impact driver, Panasonic has one, and it runs on the same LiON battery technology.  It is a little longer than their impact driver in this new model series.  It has a sliding mechanism on top to shift between normal drilling mode (with mechanical clutch mechanism) and impact driver mechanism, much like the speed shift mechanism on other battery powered drills, including those from Festool.  This combo drill/impact tool costs nearly as much as buying both a drill and an impact driver with the same LiON batteries.  This combo drill/impact driver does not include hammer drill capability.

Panasonic has an older line of drills/impact drivers that use NiMH batteries, which are noticeably heavier than LiON batteries of equal capacity.   I prefer the layout of the drill in this series due to placement of its LED light and the forward/reverese switch.  This drill also has a neat feature that allows you to set a screw essentially flush or a repeatable amount below flush.  The NiMH batteries are 3 AH capacity.

Dave R.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2008, 09:43 PM by Dave Ronyak »
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline Mcguirk

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Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #49 on: February 22, 2008, 09:33 PM »
The trouble with normal is... it always gets worse.

Offline Dan Clark

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Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #50 on: February 23, 2008, 12:06 AM »
Dan,

Yours is a fantastic collection of bits and chuck and a great comparative explanation of the pros and cons of the C12 system compared to Panasonic and others.
...
Dave R.
Dave,

Thanks, but I wasn't trying to compare the drills as much as clarify a few points.   

I think there is some very nice drilling tools out there.   The value that each user gets is pretty much unique to that user and is based on how well the features meet that person's needs.   I think that's very reasonable. 

However, I don't think it's reasonable to state "facts" about a drill (or any tool) when the facts have no basis.   That torques my jaws.   

I have a Makita 18V LiIon Impact Driver.  I love it.   It's a great tool.   But I accept the fact that it has limitations.   I have a C12 and all the chucks.   I love it.  It's a great tool.   Likewise, I accept the fact that it has limitations too.   Their limitations are far outweiged by their benefits in meeting my needs.

I looked at the new Bosch PS40 Impact driver before buying my Makita.   It looks like a nice tool.    Unfortunately the balance isn't there for me.   With respect to my needs, the RS40's benefits do NOT outweight its limitations.   But I won't comment about it's limitations because I don't have enough information.

Regards,

Dan.

Offline alg

  • Posts: 81
Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #51 on: February 23, 2008, 01:39 AM »
for those of you who criticize the C12 with the nickel metal hydride battery, I wonder if you have actual use with the C12 using the NiCad batteries? I know NiCads are old school, my old Rotadent tooth brush from college still uses Nicads. I think there is a noticeable difference in usable torque as opposed to inflated tourque ratings advertised by so many brands that come with chucks that simply do not make use of it.
I love having bleeding edge technology. I bought the Makita LXT 18 volt combo set when it first released, and actually thought it was the greatest set I ever used. I loved the impact driver but the hammer drill did not do it for me. It really became noticeable when trying to make small circles using forstner bits (brand new) or hole saws. It struggled mightily with the bits sliping in the chuck (this is a common complaint expressed in JLC forum).

what really concerned me where the field reports of batteries and charger failures. As a home user, I never pushed my Lithium Ion set to the extent of a professional contractors. I sold my Makita set to a contractor who needed to replace the batteries. He told me his crew has 5 sets of the Makita's and goes through batteries regularly and they are expensive to replace. As I type this message, I can feel the heat coming from my Thinkpad laptop which has a new lithium battery. I predict there will be a new type of battery that will be more stable and reliable than Lithium. I expect Festool is waiting for something to come out that is truely better than the NiCads.  Thus far, I am not convince there really is anything proven superior.

I took back the C12 with 3.0 NiMH and settled on the 2.4 NiCad as the best output for high-torque situations, of course this is purely my opinion and you know the value of a nickel.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2008, 01:43 AM by alg »
Seattle, WA. USA.

Offline Dan Clark

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Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #52 on: February 23, 2008, 02:19 AM »
Alg,

FYI, my C12 has 2.4 NiCads too.

Dan.

Offline alg

  • Posts: 81
Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #53 on: February 23, 2008, 02:22 AM »
Dan,

That makes sense. I know Bill, FestoolSupply, had a big influence on my decision.

thanks,

Al
Seattle, WA. USA.

Offline Dave Ronyak

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Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #54 on: February 24, 2008, 02:20 AM »
Yesterday I was at Hartville Tool's sale where I bought an ETS 125, a Quick Clamp (I had 3, now I have 4) and some sanding supplies and several router bits.  I played with some drills and impact drivers, but did not think I needed another.  Today I resumed work on the large storage cabinet I am building for my garage/shop.  I quickly drained both batteries of my Makita 12V M-Force drill.  Hmmm... this unit is about 5 years old and came with a pair of 2.6 AH NiMH batteries.  Do any of you think they are near the end of their life?  If they are, rebuild or buy a new complete drill/driver unit?  My current thinking is that I might as well buy a new set when the time comes.  My one complaint about this Makita unit is its chuck - it takes two hands to tighten.  Does the Festool jacobs style chuck ever slip on a drill bit?  I know it can be fastened with only one hand.  I have a 3/8", 5 A corded drill with a keyless chuck and it will slip sometimes, so I've remained a fan of my Milwaukee Magnum drill that has a keyed chuck that never has slipped and also goes down to essentially zero diameter to precisely hold wire sized drills when needed.

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Offline mastercabman

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Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #55 on: February 24, 2008, 08:16 AM »
Yesterday I was at Hartville Tool's sale where I bought an ETS 125, a Quick Clamp (I had 3, now I have 4) and some sanding supplies and several router bits.  I played with some drills and impact drivers, but did not think I needed another.  Today I resumed work on the large storage cabinet I am building for my garage/shop.  I quickly drained both batteries of my Makita 12V M-Force drill.  Hmmm... this unit is about 5 years old and came with a pair of 2.6 AH NiMH batteries.  Do any of you think they are near the end of their life?  If they are, rebuild or buy a new complete drill/driver unit?  My current thinking is that I might as well buy a new set when the time comes.  My one complaint about this Makita unit is its chuck - it takes two hands to tighten.  Does the Festool jacobs style chuck ever slip on a drill bit?  I know it can be fastened with only one hand.  I have a 3/8", 5 A corded drill with a keyless chuck and it will slip sometimes, so I've remained a fan of my Milwaukee Magnum drill that has a keyed chuck that never has slipped and also goes down to essentially zero diameter to precisely hold wire sized drills when needed.

Dave R.

i have 2 c12,when i use the chuck,it sometime slips.usally the bit was not tight properly.
i have the 2.4 ni-cad and the 3.0 ni-mh,both are great drills
I don't understand!?! I keep cutting it,and it's still too short!

Offline Dan Clark

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Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #56 on: February 24, 2008, 11:08 AM »
Dave,

I have not noticed that the C12 Jacobs-style chuck slips.    It may, but I haven't noticed it.   The chuck can be tightened with one hand.   (Well two hands actually - one for the drill and one for the chuck. 8) )

While the C12 is a great drill, if you're not going to buy the chuck kit, there are other drills out there that are very good too.  The balance of features is different and that is what will make one drill better than another for each person.  However, IF you need flexibility and buy the chuck kit, then the C12 pretty much stands alone. (IMO)

Regards,

Dan.

Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #57 on: February 26, 2008, 12:02 PM »
Apparently Panasonic are pioneering much of the Li-Ion technology and they are the only ones using their "next generation" Li-Ion batteries with nearly twice as many charges possible. They are holding out for the other brands for obvious reasons - they get to have the top of the line technology before the others and why would they be swift to hand out their recent achievments?

I am a proud owner of the Makita BDF440 - which works great for me and I would not want to switch from Li-Ion. At times the unit does run hot but using it everyday now for a full year I have no complaints as to the battery, the capacity and the reliability. Makita has their Makstar chargers pampering the batteries to ensure a long life.

As for the C12 I have been eyeballing it a lot, played with one today when I picked up the MFT and I love the feel of it. The Festool rep recommended Panasonic (!) for heavy use and the C12 for everything else. If I get more work on my hands I am tempted to pick up a C12 as it does some things extremely well. What does keep me off for now is the fact that it is kind of expensive for not being a cutting edge battery technology and I am hoping they will get if fitted with a Li-Ion battery one of these days.

Last, but not least, the C12 has slightly inferior ergonomics despite the radical design, the Makita handles better at some angles and the overall balance is better. Had the C12 been the equal of the Makita in ergonomics I would have gotten one by now.
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline mxlars

  • Posts: 25
..
« Reply #58 on: February 26, 2008, 09:23 PM »
Haven't been by you guys(and girls?)  for some time and watched the video.. found back to you as I searched for Panasonic info regarding the brush/no brush question regarding the EY7440 drill.. and I'm still not convinced..
Many retailers describe the EY7440LN2S as a brushless device and there's some references to a EY7440LN2L drill (not the kit w/lantern) and I suspect there's been a change in the production of this drill to use the same brushless motor as the impact driver.
As I just ordered the latest Panasonic kit with drill+impact+light I'm eager to see if this is the case, it's a great kit anyhow and the price is just stunning for the quality. 

In a large test (not available in english) - the Panasonic drill easily beat all the competition from Festool(TDK), Hilti, Makita, Metabo, Boshk, SnapOn, Milwaukee and DeWalt (all brand new tools/2 fully charged batteries used). 
Test was comprehensive and done in a cold garage at 0-2 degrees Celsius (approx. 32 Fahrenheit) : Drive 100x  6x80mm screws, unscrew all, and if any battery left, holes where drilled with a 76mm (3") holesaw until no more juice.
The Panasonic did all 100 + 18 holes, Festool TDK 15,6 w/3Ah battery didnt manage to drive and pull all 100 screws..

For those of you compelled to read the test, it's available here.
* It's in Norwegian, but many words are similar enough to be understood by the native englishspeaking population (I think)..


******
On a sidenote (behaviour also observed in the video), I've seen this done by many but no-one i know.. - What compells people to keep pumping the trigger on cordless drills vigorously either when drilling a hole or driving a screw??? Is it a concious behaviour ???
I think it not only sounds an looks stupid, but in addition makes no sense.. like trying to milk or pump the battery, or enjoying to hear and feel the bit stop in the workpiece... my only guess is that the user has some idea they can squeeze more torque from the battery by doing this?
Why not just control the pressure, rpm and torque steadily until the bit has done it's job?

... or could it be a nervous behaviour disorder caused by experiencing drilling through a water or mains line? ;D  - Stopping to see if there's any leakage or AC tickling..

Anyhow.. I hope you can explain the reason for this 'method' to me  ;)

« Last Edit: February 26, 2008, 09:26 PM by mxlars »

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 771
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills
« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2008, 09:47 PM »
As far as "pumping" the trigger goes, I am aware that some Metabo drills have a "pulse" or "impulse" mode, but my understanding is that function is designed more for drilling in steel.......
CT-MIDI, C-18, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1010, OF-1400, MFK-700, MFK-700EQ/B, EHL-65, DTS-400, LS-130, MFT/3 (x4), MFT/Kapex (x3), KA 65 Conturo, endless Systainers