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Author Topic: Splinter guard falling off.  (Read 1611 times)

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Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1878
Splinter guard falling off.
« on: November 22, 2022, 04:18 PM »
I store my track saw, tracks and clamps in my garage as I use it to break down sheet goods before I carry them into my shop in the basement.

This is the first year I am storing in the unheated garage.  Previously, I would carry the saw, the tracks, etc. upstairs each time I wanted to make some cuts. 

Apparently, the cold affects the adhesive that holds on the splinter guards. They are peeling off.

Any suggestions?  (And no, I don’t want to start carrying this stuff up and down the stairs each time I want to use it.)

 

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Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 2498
Re: Splinter guard falling off.
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2022, 05:40 PM »
Probably not the answer you want but I switched to the black Makita strip, and it has stayed stuck.

I think the Festool strip is too rigid to stretch with changes in temperature, and the adhesive overall isn't great. Don't know if there is any other way unless you go to a 3rd party adhesive. I previously tried some double-sided tape, and it didn't help.

RMW

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline woodbutcherbower

  • Posts: 606
Re: Splinter guard falling off.
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2022, 06:04 PM »
I've been a TS55 user since 2005 and I never once had a splinterguard strip come off. My rails have always been kept outside in the van, and since I'm in the UK, our temperature gradient runs from 100F in the summer (which usually lasts around 10 minutes or so) down to 0F in the worst of our winters. The absolute key is cleanliness - the rail must be totally spotless and free from any contaminants, which means thoroughly cleaning the contact area with copious amounts of acetone. If it's cold and the strip feels stiff and rigid, heat it up with a hairdryer before you peel off the backing  tape and stick it on. No finger contact with the adhesive, please.

Your strip will stay put and the girls will love your cool hairdryer .
« Last Edit: November 22, 2022, 06:07 PM by woodbutcherbower »

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 4339
Re: Splinter guard falling off.
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2022, 06:10 PM »
If you need a quick fix, get some double-faced carpet tape and cut a narrow piece to rejoin the splinter guard to the rail. 
- Willy -

  "Show us a man who never makes a mistake and we will show a man who never makes anything. 
  The capacity for occasional blundering is inseparable from the capacity to bring things to pass."

 - Herman Lincoln Wayland (1830-1898)

Offline RJNeal

  • Posts: 605
Re: Splinter guard falling off.
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2022, 08:12 PM »
I have had the clear strips fall the rail as soon as I’ve taken them out shipping case upon delivery
I went with makita and haven’t looked back.
I usually order the 118” strips and cut them for the shorter rails.
Rick
Have you walked your saw today?

Offline bobtskutter

  • Posts: 101
Re: Splinter guard falling off.
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2022, 04:51 AM »
My rails have been stored in an unheated UK garage for the last couple of years, the splinter guards haven't come off yet.
I store the rails with the splinter guards pointing up in the air, there is no weight pushing down on the guard.
In one of the festool live videos I think Sedge says not to put the splinter guard all the way to the end of the aluminum rail; leave a small 5mm gap.  It stops the splinter guard getting pealed off when you move the rails.
Regards
Bob

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1878
Re: Splinter guard falling off.
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2022, 08:58 AM »
Thanks for the replies. 

1. I did not know that the Makita strips would fit my rails.  I will try them next.

2.  I do have an adhesive transfer gun (applies the adhesive that double faced tape uses, but leaves off the tape itself.  They do make hand transfer adhesive transfer that is applied with a release release paper.).  I will try that.

FYI:




Note:  I used this dispenser several times daily when I had my frame shop.  If this interests you, you can avoid the cost of the dispenser by using hand applied.

The primary application was for dust covers on the back of the frame.  So I would use it between 5 and 8 times daily (sometimes more, but 8 frames a day was about my limit).

For greater strength, I applied two layers of the adhesive and that is what I will try on the splinter guard.

Most art supply stores carry this.  Online you can find various widths.  (The gun uses 1/2” wide adhesive.)

Offline mino

  • Posts: 1281
Re: Splinter guard falling off.
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2022, 09:15 AM »
This could be caused by the contract-expand cycles where the Festool strips are rigid while the Makita ones are soft rubber so can stretch/compress easily.

The issue for the rails would be the temperature _changes_ not necessarily the cold itself.
To remediate, I would consider:
 - when placing a new strip, doing it at a temperature which is close to the garage average, i.e. not while at 5° (C) nor at 35° (C).
 - consider splitting the strip into multiple "sections" with small, say 0.05", gaps between thew so the overral "movement" asked of the strip is lowered
 - go for the Makita strips, their main disadvantage is that the cuts may be less clean as they are a bit worse in the anti-splinter function compared to the harder Festool ones => sounds like a non-issue for this scenario

Either way, I would be more concerned for the TS55 being left in a too-cold place where condensation/frost is a risk. More so than for the rails where the strips can be easily replaced.
The Machine has no brains. Use Yours!

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
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  • Posts: 10130
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Splinter guard falling off.
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2022, 09:20 AM »
That transfer gun sure looks handy. I see that there are several types of adhesive tape. How easy is it to swap out the tape rolls? Is the general purpose type similar to the spray on contact adhesive?



Seth

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1878
Re: Splinter guard falling off.
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2022, 04:35 PM »
Probably not the answer you want but I switched to the black Makita strip, and it has stayed stuck.

I think the Festool strip is too rigid to stretch with changes in temperature, and the adhesive overall isn't great. Don't know if there is any other way unless you go to a 3rd party adhesive. I previously tried some double-sided tape, and it didn't help.

RMW

I ordered the Makita strip.  I think it was 119” long; enough for both my 55” tracks, but not including the baby track that I rarely use.  It is supposed to arrive on Sunday.

I will try using the adhesive transfer tape to enhance the life of the existing splinter guard, but I will have the replacement in the box if I need it. 

Thanks for all the replies.

Packard

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1878
Re: Splinter guard falling off.
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2023, 02:33 PM »
I have more than one track, so I have not been hard pressed to replace the splinter guard.

I carried the offending track to the basement yesterday.

I was surprised to see that the splinter guard was not coming unglued from the track.  The adhesive was detaching from the splinter guard.  The adhesive is probably going to be a pain to remove.  It seems to be attached to some thin fabric.  I will warm it up and see if it will peel off.

Is this strange?  Is it because I store it in the cold? (But protected from the elements in an unheated garage.)

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5869
Re: Splinter guard falling off.
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2023, 04:14 PM »
@ Packard first try heating the rail and strip and then put it back on, a couple mm’s farther out so it will get cut.

Maybe quickly wipe the glue side of the strip with acetone to get rid of any plasticizers?

More specifically, heat up the first half foot or so of one end and then start positioning the strip.
Clamp the strip to the rail (I use spring clamps) then move a little farther ahead with the heat and repeat. Get the strip warm but not too hot as it will probably expand and if it does and then shrinks will likely detach.

I don’t take the strip off entirely. Just heat up a section then lift the strip and move it over a bit and press it down. Then do that to the adjacent areas. When the whole strip is moved over I heat up the whole length of the splinter side of the rail (with the heat gun blowing on the aluminum side) and give some fresh heat to the strip, then lay a strip of wood on the splinter guard and apply as many spring clamps as will fit.

Offline woodbutcherbower

  • Posts: 606
Re: Splinter guard falling off.
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2023, 06:07 PM »
As a commercial woodworker, I replace my strips every 8-10 weeks. Cleaning the aluminium properly with Festool's recommended solvent (acetone) is absolutely key. The metal has to be absolutely, totally clean before you peel the tape and apply the new strip. I've never had one peel or fail. I did mine a week ago, and it's been sub-20 in my shop since then. It's still stuck like s**t to a baby's blanket - and will continue to be. My advice would also be to replace the green splinter shoes on your saw every time you replace the rail strip. Perfect, splinter-free cuts have two edges ....

Kevin
« Last Edit: January 16, 2023, 06:12 PM by woodbutcherbower »

Offline cpw

  • Posts: 379
Re: Splinter guard falling off.
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2023, 07:27 PM »
Sedge showed pushing the strip down with a domino in one of the live videos to make sure you get good contact/adhesion.

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1878
Re: Splinter guard falling off.
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2023, 02:51 PM »
It was the very first splinter strip applied to this track.  And I cleaned the aluminum with alcohol—I don’t recall any other specified solvent (but I do keep acetone in the house—so not a problem going forward).

But the adhesion failure was not with the aluminum bond. 

The strip has a thin loosely woven gauze strip with adhesive on both sides.  The adhesion failed between the gauze and the splinter strip.  The gauze was still firmly attached to the aluminum. 

I will clean the aluminum with acetone.  I don’t know if the resin for the anti-splinter strip will be affected by the acetone.  I will test. 

I do have an ATG gun (adhesive transfer gun).  It applies the same adhesive you use for double sided tape, but without the tape.  Just the adhesive.  It makes a fairly robust bond.  I will try to re-adhere the strip with the ATG tape, positioning the splinter guard so that I will trim a little off this time too.

Plan “B” has me install the Makita splinter guard I ordered to replace the Festool one.

Does anyone have any idea why the Festool strip failed?  It was not the strip/aluminum bond that failed.  It was the adhesive tape to the strip that failed. 

When I get home I will take a photo and post.

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1878
Re: Splinter guard falling off.
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2023, 03:18 PM »
I fished the strip out of the trash.  The double faced gauze delaminated from the strip.  I had to pull it off of the aluminum where it had good adhesion.

I will try to re-attach it tonight.


Offline rst

  • Posts: 2882
Re: Splinter guard falling off.
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2023, 03:43 PM »
I clean my tracks with acetone and plastic scrapers to avoid gouging the aluminum, I helps to wet a towel and leave it on the glue residue to loosen.  I've also used a sharp acrylic edge from scrap to scrape.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5869
Re: Splinter guard falling off.
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2023, 04:03 PM »
I clean my tracks with acetone and plastic scrapers to avoid gouging the aluminum, I helps to wet a towel and leave it on the glue residue to loosen.  I've also used a sharp acrylic edge from scrap to scrape.

Got email this morning about this Alternative solvent

Claims to get the job done and evaporate much slower than acetone. I‘ve never tried it.

Offline Packard

  • Posts: 1878
Re: Splinter guard falling off.
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2023, 04:15 PM »
I will test the acetone on a small bit of the splinter guard.  If it does not affect the plastic, I will use that as I have it in the shop. 

I am mystified by why this should have happened.  If it delaminated from the aluminum, it could be that I failed to clean the surface adequately.  But that did not happen.

The adhesive gauze was applied to the splinter guard at the factory.  So my actions should not have come into play here.  I am positing that the problem was at the manufacturing process, not in my installation.

I am addressing that quality issue by switching to Makita’s strips (which are a nice manly and business-like color of black) and about 1/2 the price of Festool’s defective offering.