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Author Topic: Old Stock Vac Sys  (Read 3582 times)

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Offline Rockhigh

  • Posts: 14
Old Stock Vac Sys
« on: May 17, 2021, 01:55 PM »
I just got home from LV with my brand new Vac Sys system. I was very excited to use it. Plugged it in and does not seem to pull a good vacuum.

So I figured I would call in to support. Looked at serial and date code and they tell me it’s over 5 years old? So representative told me to return it or send in for repair.

Pretty sad that I purchased a 2021 Mercedes and got a 2016 model.

I own lots of Festool equipment. What a waste of time. There should be a program in place to insure stock is reasonably new ?


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Offline squall_line

  • Posts: 397
Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2021, 02:02 PM »
It's definitely a shame to hear that something that was sold as brand new didn't perform to the standards of brand new.

That said, it's also good to hear and know that Festool is serious about their 1-2-3 (or is it 3-2-1) warranty; it's from the date the tool is purchased from the shop, rather than the date it was produced.

I'm just guessing and shooting from the hip, but I can imagine that there are seals and rubber that don't take kindly to sitting idle for 5 years after manufacture, and a lot of that is dependent on storage, too.

I don't know what options Festool would have on ensuring stock on shelves is new; they would spend quite a bit on replacing anything that sat on a shelf for more than 2 or 3 years without selling.  I don't know at what point the store is allowed to sell under retail, but it might only be on discontinued or superseded products.  If a Vac-Sys didn't sell through at a store for 4 years, what sense is there in replacing it with a new one that will also sit there for another 4 years, and lose 25% by selling it as a reconditioned tool?

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2021, 04:59 PM »
Other than the performance issues, having an older date on a label is not that uncommon here in North America.  With our electrical requirements and also certification requirements, Festool has to convert factory lines just to meet the North American markets.  So, while the sun shines they make hay so to speak.  And then tools are held in storage until demand warrants shipping them from Europe.

The Vac-Sys for the NA market was also an issue with certification versus the rest of the world.

The warranty goes from purchase date - unless you don't keep proof of purchase, in which case it may go from the only documental date which is the date of manufacture.

Register your tools and keep your receipts in some manner.

Peter
« Last Edit: May 17, 2021, 05:04 PM by Peter Halle »

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8551
Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2021, 07:17 PM »
FWIW...In 2017, I purchased a new MFK 700 that had a build date of 2008.  It still had a 3 year warranty to go along with it so I just kept it.   

Offline Rockhigh

  • Posts: 14
Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2021, 07:51 PM »
Question, how low should the vacuum go? This is all I get ? Tech support told me to return ?


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Offline Rockhigh

  • Posts: 14
Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2021, 07:53 PM »
Thanks for all your support and suggestions. Greatly appreciated!


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Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8551
Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2021, 08:30 PM »
Are you in high elevation country? The vacuum goes down as the altitude increases.

Offline dicktill

  • Posts: 342
Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2021, 10:05 PM »
Question, how low should the vacuum go? This is all I get ? Tech support told me to return ?



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That's about where mine goes.

Offline Rockhigh

  • Posts: 14
Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2021, 10:43 PM »
Are you in high elevation country? The vacuum goes down as the altitude increases.

3557 feet above sea level, could be it

Offline Rockhigh

  • Posts: 14
Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2021, 10:45 PM »
Other than the performance issues, having an older date on a label is not that uncommon here in North America.  With our electrical requirements and also certification requirements, Festool has to convert factory lines just to meet the North American markets.  So, while the sun shines they make hay so to speak.  And then tools are held in storage until demand warrants shipping them from Europe.

The Vac-Sys for the NA market was also an issue with certification versus the rest of the world.

The warranty goes from purchase date - unless you don't keep proof of purchase, in which case it may go from the only documental date which is the date of manufacture.

Register your tools and keep your receipts in some manner.

Peter

Thanks Peter

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6402
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2021, 11:04 PM »
Are you in high elevation country? The vacuum goes down as the altitude increases.

3557 feet above sea level, could be it

My shop is at 6220 above sea level, my Vac Sys works well here, it seems to very slightly weaker here than in Cedar Tucky IN. where the shop was at 725 feet above sea level.

If I remember tomorrow I'll take a picture of the gauge.

Tom

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8551
Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2021, 11:29 PM »
Ya just google vacuum vs altitude and you’ll find numerous graphs that may help.

Offline Cypren

  • Posts: 136
Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2021, 12:56 PM »
For reference, at ~250 ft. above sea level, mine goes to about 0.85 on the scale when started up (without any vacuum components exerting suction, since there's always a bit of loss on each one).

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 1054
Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2021, 12:59 PM »
I think I remember also, there being a difference on the gauge if you're using the vacuum clamps self clamping rear suction vs not using it. I noticed enough of a drop in 'suck' to materials that I bolted my clamp down to its plywood mount instead of relying on the clamp to suck itself down, if that makes sense.
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline Cypren

  • Posts: 136
Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2021, 02:23 PM »
I think I remember also, there being a difference on the gauge if you're using the vacuum clamps self clamping rear suction vs not using it. I noticed enough of a drop in 'suck' to materials that I bolted my clamp down to its plywood mount instead of relying on the clamp to suck itself down, if that makes sense.

This is very heavily dependent upon the material you're using for the base. The vast majority of plywood is porous enough to cause significant air leakage when the base unit is clamped on it. For example, if I vacuum-mount the SE 1 to a sheet of 18mm pine sheathing plywood, it has barely enough suction to grab and hold a small plywood panel with the clamp head. If I try to split the pressure even further to share it with the SE 2, everything loses suction: the material is just leaking in too much air. (This is the case even if I've sanded the plywood to a fine finish: it really is the density of the material that's the problem, not the roughness.)

On the other hand, if I place the SE units on sheets of plexiglas or steel, they lose barely any suction at all and grip it with a strength that would embarrass a pit bull.

In the Festool Live video on the VAC SYS, Sedge shows that he uses dense maple plywood as his backing mounts. I have yet to try that (I just got the VAC SYS last week and am still reworking my workbench for it), but I'm hoping the maple is less porous than the pine. (I'm not sure about plywood, but solid hard maple is almost twice as dense as pine.) If not, I'll probably look at using ~6mm steel sheet for the attachment bases.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2021, 04:07 PM »
I just got home from LV with my brand new Vac Sys system. I was very excited to use it. Plugged it in and does not seem to pull a good vacuum.

So I figured I would call in to support. Looked at serial and date code and they tell me it’s over 5 years old? So representative told me to return it or send in for repair.

Pretty sad that I purchased a 2021 Mercedes and got a 2016 model.

I own lots of Festool equipment. What a waste of time. There should be a program in place to insure stock is reasonably new ?


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Hi,

  How well does it hold materials?

Seth

Offline Cypren

  • Posts: 136
Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2021, 04:48 PM »
By the way, I just went out to the workshop and checked: my VAC PMP unit shows a manufacture date of April 2016, and the SE clamps both have manufacture dates in 2015. (And they all work fine.)

I suspect that, like Peter suggested, this is a very low-sales-volume product, so they produced a number of units in a single batch and then held them in inventory for a long period of time because it was cheaper to store five years worth of sales inventory than to retool a manufacturing line back and forth for a product that doesn't move that many units per year. (That would also explain why all the VAC SYS components still come in gen 1 systainers.)

Offline Laminator

  • Posts: 360
Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2021, 08:46 PM »
Plastic laminate makes an excellent surface to mount to. Also, I've found MDF to be the most porous material to try to clamp by far.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8551
Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2021, 08:56 PM »
By the way, I just went out to the workshop and checked: my VAC PMP unit shows a manufacture date of April 2016, and the SE clamps both have manufacture dates in 2015. (And they all work fine.)

FWIW...my Vac Sys was also built in 2015, everything works fine, no hard seals, no issues.

I like to make use of the extra vacuum reservoir under the clamp head so if the vacuum pump does quit for whatever reason, I gain valuable extra time before the project comes crashing down to the floor. I'm thinking Simpson Full-View outside wooden door with thermopane glass. It'd be ugly. There's a reason that such situations are called ACCIDENTS.  [smile]

So I fabricated a couple of 20 mm aluminum dogs and attached them to some 16 ga stainless sheet. The stainless is still flexible enough that when you apply vacuum, the stainless flexes and splays the aluminum dogs outward thus gripping/wedging them into the dog holes of the MFT style top.

At that point the gripping is like a bulldog with a bologna sandwich...good luck.









Offline Rockhigh

  • Posts: 14
Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2021, 09:01 PM »
By the way, I just went out to the workshop and checked: my VAC PMP unit shows a manufacture date of April 2016, and the SE clamps both have manufacture dates in 2015. (And they all work fine.)

FWIW...my Vac Sys was also built in 2015, everything works fine, no hard seals, no issues.

I like to make use of the extra vacuum reservoir under the clamp head so if the vacuum pump does quit for whatever reason, I gain valuable extra time before the project comes crashing down to the floor. I'm thinking Simpson Full-View outside wooden door with thermopane glass. It'd be ugly. There's a reason that such situations are called ACCIDENTS.  [smile]

So I fabricated a couple of 20 mm aluminum dogs and attached them to some 16 ga stainless sheet. The stainless is still flexible enough that when you apply vacuum, the stainless flexes and splays the aluminum dogs outward thus gripping/wedging them into the dog holes of the MFT style top.

At that point the gripping is like a bulldog with a bologna sandwich...good luck.



WOW Cheese, that looks awesome !!

Offline Cypren

  • Posts: 136
Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2021, 09:02 PM »
So I fabricated a couple of 20 mm aluminum dogs and attached them to some 16 ga stainless sheet. The stainless is still flexible enough that when you apply vacuum, the stainless flexes and splays the aluminum dogs outward thus gripping/wedging them into the dog holes of the MFT style top.
Oh, this is clever. I had thought about doing something like this, but was going to use thicker steel plates. Taking advantage of the flex to anchor it never occurred to me. Brilliant.

Offline Rockhigh

  • Posts: 14
Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2021, 09:08 PM »
I just got home from LV with my brand new Vac Sys system. I was very excited to use it. Plugged it in and does not seem to pull a good vacuum.

So I figured I would call in to support. Looked at serial and date code and they tell me it’s over 5 years old? So representative told me to return it or send in for repair.

Pretty sad that I purchased a 2021 Mercedes and got a 2016 model.

I own lots of Festool equipment. What a waste of time. There should be a program in place to insure stock is reasonably new ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi,

  How well does it hold materials?

Seth

It seems to hold White Oak fine, MDF not good.... but I have recently read it you can have issues with MDF unless its sealed ? 

Does anyone's gauge zero out all the way to bottom ? Maybe the rep I got for tech support did not know anything about these. She thought it would go all way.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 8551
Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2021, 10:00 PM »
It seems to hold White Oak fine, MDF not good.... but I have recently read it you can have issues with MDF unless its sealed ? 

MDF needs to be sealed, I use a couple of coats of sanding sealer. One on each side.

Offline Cypren

  • Posts: 136
Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2021, 10:16 PM »
Does anyone's gauge zero out all the way to bottom ? Maybe the rep I got for tech support did not know anything about these. She thought it would go all way.
This is what I get with just the SE 1 hose attached, nothing clamped. I’ve not seen it get any better. (~250 ft above sea level.)


Offline Rockhigh

  • Posts: 14
Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2021, 12:15 PM »
Does anyone's gauge zero out all the way to bottom ? Maybe the rep I got for tech support did not know anything about these. She thought it would go all way.
This is what I get with just the SE 1 hose attached, nothing clamped. I’ve not seen it get any better. (~250 ft above sea level.)


Thanks Cypren , it makes me feel a lot better to know that they don’t go all the way down, going to test it out this weekend and see if I have any issues.


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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6402
  • No longer in Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2021, 08:34 AM »
Finally remembered (darn CRS) to take a picutre of the gauge on the Vac Sys. One head, nothing on the head.

It holds just fine considering I'm @ 6200 feet above sea level.

The MDF issue, use masking tape on the back of the MDF it you don't want to seal it prior to performing the necessary work on it.

Tom

Offline Rockhigh

  • Posts: 14
Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2021, 10:24 PM »
Finally remembered (darn CRS) to take a picutre of the gauge on the Vac Sys. One head, nothing on the head.

It holds just fine considering I'm @ 6200 feet above sea level.

The MDF issue, use masking tape on the back of the MDF it you don't want to seal it prior to performing the necessary work on it.

Tom
Thanks for the picture Tom


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Offline rst

  • Posts: 2618
Re: Old Stock Vac Sys
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2021, 07:25 AM »
I, similar to Cheese made mounting plates.  Mine are 3/8" polycarbonate.  I attach to my MFTs and work stations with counter sunk holes and low profile washerhead 1/4 -20 screws into threaded dogs inserted below the table.