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Author Topic: New Dust Extractor Ends  (Read 26375 times)

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Offline James Biddle

  • Posts: 162
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #60 on: September 21, 2018, 08:12 PM »
Does anyone here remember an example of when Festool listened to the complaints posted on this site?  Do you remember them even responding, let alone made changes?  Hose ends, Kapex, Imperial/Metric, more holes in sandpaper, this latest promotion where you need to send in a tool to ring the bell, etc. 

We believe that Tyler fed our complaints up to corporate.  Have we ever heard back from corporate on any issue?

When the quality slips, innovation dries up, and the cost remains high, they then have to compete with every other company.  If it's no longer a system, it's a bunch of tools that have to compete with every other company.  Companies that continue to innovate and fill the voids Festool created for itself. 

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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6535
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #61 on: September 22, 2018, 10:26 AM »
Does anyone here remember an example of when Festool listened to the complaints posted on this site? 

I'm still waiting for a response to the Kapex issue that Festool actually solicited.   [dead horse]

I think that was about 2 years ago.  [sad]

Offline jonathan-m

  • Posts: 331
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #62 on: September 22, 2018, 11:17 AM »
I cannot express in words how much I hate the new hose ends and tool connections.
One thing is for sure, I will die before I buy a tool with that connection.

Love the smooth hoses, but absolutely hate the connectors.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 11:22 AM by jonathan-m »
Festool: 2x MFT/3 // OF-1400 // MFS-400 & 700 // RO-90 // SYS-ROLL // VAC-SYS SET SE1 // CT-ASA CT 26/36/SB // KS 120 EB & UG-L & R //  VECTURO OS 400 EQ-Set  // DSG-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 FH // HK 85 EB // HK 55 EB
Protool: 2x VCP 260 LE AC // PDP 20-2 // WCP-32
Mafell: MT55cc // P1cc // DD40P // Erika 85 Ec

Offline mrB

  • Posts: 571
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #63 on: October 04, 2018, 04:57 PM »
I can think of a few examples, off hand, where Festool seemed to listen to the customers.  But I'm hesitant to mention them because I feel they are increasingly NOT listening. But I do believe the below products were released or altered due to customer feedback. . .

CT SYS release
13mm chuck upgrade on CXS
Smooth hoses introduced (and the pervious hose covers)
Vac SYS in USA finally
Compact 18v Batteries
Compact Battery Drill sets
 
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 786
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #64 on: October 17, 2018, 08:48 PM »

Some nitwit in a cubicle somewhere comes up with a brilliant plan to fix something that isn't broken and makes things way worse as a result.


Probably one of those new "User Experience Designers" that seem to be popping up everywhere.

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 514
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #65 on: October 24, 2018, 04:03 PM »
@Cheese

This may be of interest to some. The old style hose connectors are all gone. .however, if you take a D36 to D27 reducer available from either Festool ($$$) or from Industrial Vacuum for $15 http://www.industrialvacs.com/Tool_Socket_connects_suction_hose_to_power_tool_p/h302000535.htm , which I just got a few minutes ago in the mail, the portion that is essentially the 'old style' vac hose end is reverse threaded and removable from the D36 end. It's a snug fit putting it on a cleantec adapter. Hope this helps.







Instagram @matts.garage

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1869
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #66 on: October 24, 2018, 04:29 PM »
Does anyone here remember an example of when Festool listened to the complaints posted on this site? 
I'm still waiting for a response to the Kapex issue that Festool actually solicited.
I think that was about 2 years ago.
Very unfortunate. What other tool maker has such a vibrant forum dedicated to a single brand?
FOG is a gold mine of ideas and user feedback in a single place.
What is the point for Festool to run and own this forum if they don't utilize it for self improvement?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 04:33 PM by Svar »

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1225
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #67 on: October 24, 2018, 04:37 PM »
@Cheese

This may be of interest to some. The old style hose connectors are all gone. .however, if you take a D36 to D27 reducer available from either Festool ($$$) or from Industrial Vacuum for $15 http://www.industrialvacs.com/Tool_Socket_connects_suction_hose_to_power_tool_p/h302000535.htm , which I just got a few minutes ago in the mail, the portion that is essentially the 'old style' vac hose end is reverse threaded and removable from the D36 end. It's a snug fit putting it on a cleantec adapter. Hope this helps.








Thats pretty cool, but other than converting the new hoses to the old style connectors (which I agree is way better) what else might one use this adapter for?
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6535
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #68 on: October 24, 2018, 06:51 PM »
This may be of interest to some. The old style hose connectors are all gone. .however, if you take a D36 to D27 reducer available from either Festool ($$$) or from Industrial Vacuum for $15 http://www.industrialvacs.com/Tool_Socket_connects_suction_hose_to_power_tool_p/h302000535.htm , which I just got a few minutes ago in the mail, the portion that is essentially the 'old style' vac hose end is reverse threaded and removable from the D36 end. It's a snug fit putting it on a cleantec adapter.

Thanks for that @DynaGlide   🙏

That’s a pretty clever solution to an aggravating situation.  [big grin]

Just curious if the Festool reducer is also a 2-piece unit?

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1869
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #69 on: October 24, 2018, 07:17 PM »
This may be of interest to some. The old style hose connectors are all gone. .however, if you take a D36 to D27 reducer available from either Festool ($$$) or from Industrial Vacuum for $15 http://www.industrialvacs.com/Tool_Socket_connects_suction_hose_to_power_tool_p/h302000535.htm , which I just got a few minutes ago in the mail, the portion that is essentially the 'old style' vac hose end is reverse threaded and removable from the D36 end. It's a snug fit putting it on a cleantec adapter.
Festool forgot to "improve" those. Better move quick.

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 514
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #70 on: October 24, 2018, 07:47 PM »
The best part is Festool can't really stop this since they don't make this part. They repackage a Nilfisk adapter and charge a handsome fee.
Instagram @matts.garage

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1225
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #71 on: October 26, 2018, 05:15 PM »
The best part is Festool can't really stop this since they don't make this part. They repackage a Nilfisk adapter and charge a handsome fee.
They do that with quite a few of their vacuum accessories and parts I found. Nice once you find the equivalents and pick them up for 1/4 the cost!
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6535
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #72 on: March 13, 2019, 10:35 PM »
So if you're thinking the dreadful new Festool hose connection is going away any time soon, better think again.

I visited Woodcraft yesterday and noticed all of the demo tools now have the new bayonet style hose connection. All 3 Rotexes, the jig saws, the new sanders and both Dominos. Even this older style ETS 150 with a cast aluminum body has been changed to the new version.  [crying] [crying] [crying]


Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 804
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #73 on: March 14, 2019, 07:15 AM »
I think the not listening to customers thing, is quite common the more a company evolves, progresses or expands etc?
I have suppliers that I first started using 30 + years ago, some are bigger and better than ever, and value and listen to customer feedback, and wherever they can, will act on it.
The other side of the coin are, companies that start off small and are very hands on with their customer wants and needs, and the innovation largely fed by customers grows, and with it the company.
Then these companies get a little complacent, even too big for their boots sometimes, and instead of continuing to listen to customers, they are more concerned with fending off the competition, often cost cutting too.

As we know, often really good or great successful companies, at some stage are controlled by the bean counters reports and advice. It makes for great profit margins, and provides nice bonuses but, the customer is always king, and the companies that remember this, are the survivors.

I don't know if Festool are no longer listening to customers feedback, and are now caught up in the race for top spot in business? and neither would I suggest so but, they have expanded a great deal, and in the last two or three years I hear a lot more disgruntled Festool customer stories than I used to. That could be down to percentages etc, the more customers you have, the more chance there is of some being upset.

You could say the same for other tool manufacturers but, and it's a big but, most of the other manufacturers have more realistic price tags.
I bought some new Festool yesterday, along with some must have accessories, and a couple of times I found myself wincing after hitting the "Buy" button. So to cheer myself up, I remembered how great the tools are, and the superb customer service and how they look after their customers.
So perhaps they just need to start listening a little more?  [wink]

Offline Peter Halle

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 12056
  • Magnum - My new little boy
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #74 on: March 14, 2019, 08:31 AM »
@Jiggy Joiner , I know that what I am writing might be seen as being tainted because I am a Moderator here, but it is offered without any prejudice.

Festool is absolutely a bigger company than it was when I got my first tool.  Once the ship gets bigger it does become less nimble.  Product development - especially when you are talking about development for hundreds of countries - takes time and investigation in advance.  We are talking about years here.

Festool does listen and is constantly out there in the real world collecting insight from their tool users.  It is commonplace for example to send out a team for an extended period of time with a product in development and take that to users for their input.  I know this to be true because I have met such team members and spoken to them.

There are members here on the forum who have been visited and involved.  I can't speak to their experiences directly other than to say they appreciated the experience and noticed the extensive note taking.

There are focus groups.  There are those who are constantly reading the comments on the internet including what is written here.  There are the direct messages and communion with Festool.

I certainly have read about the dislike by some for the new locking ends on the hoses.  I am sure that Festool is listening.  But I will offer my opinion that the development of the locking ends came as a result of comments previously received about the smooth hose connections coming loose.

I would urge those who have thoughts about how to improve a Festool product to offer their thoughts.  But also realize that just because they don't see an immediate result doesn't mean that the comments went unheard.

Offered constructively,

Peter

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 804
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #75 on: March 14, 2019, 09:41 AM »
Hi Peter, No not tainted in any way, in fact your post is reassuring, well at least to me anyway  [thumbs up]

I am a long time tradesmen, and obviously like many that have been in the game a long time, have seen vast developments, mostly in a positive way, and some negative. I also understand as I mentioned, that things change when a company expands, this also brings a mix of both positive and negative with it.
I have certainly noticed more customers voicing their frustrations with Festool nowadays. If you hear people moaning about something, especially non customers or non buyers of a brand, that's no so important to me, as it might be hearsay, gossiping or sour grapes etc. However, when I hear customers, and owners of a brand voicing concern, I certainly take more notice.

I love the whole Festool arrangement, and the tools, my bills and receipts in the last two months for Festool would confirm this but, that's not to say Festool are perfect, or I don't get a little frustrated at times, just the same with other manufacturers I buy from.

As a positive, I spoke to Festool UK cutomer service yesterday, to a very nice lady, who dealt with my enquiry in a cheerful and polite manner. The result of the conversation, was me buying more Festool yesterday.
So overall, I'm happy but, at the prices, I should be  [wink]

Offline jonathan-m

  • Posts: 331
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #76 on: March 14, 2019, 09:54 AM »
I have voiced my objections and concerns about the new locking connections on just about every occasion.
For me it's very simple. I am done with Festool. I'm glad I bought all my Festool tools before the change. But if or when they break, they will be replaced with another brand.
I HATE the new connectors so bad. It's very simply a truely terrible design. It makes the tools a hassle to use instead of a pleasure. And let's be honest here, their real purpose is just another way of vendor lock-in.

I'm sure Festool does go out to a jobsite to talk to people, but you'll never convince me in a million years they go out and talk with a lot of us. And obviously, they are going out and talking to the wrong people. Nobody, and I mean absolutely nobody I have talked to since these atrocious things came out thinks these are better than what we had before.

Since even the castings on all the tools have now been f'ed up I've lost any hope of Festool seeing the light.
You're done selling me tools with that connection.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 10:05 AM by jonathan-m »
Festool: 2x MFT/3 // OF-1400 // MFS-400 & 700 // RO-90 // SYS-ROLL // VAC-SYS SET SE1 // CT-ASA CT 26/36/SB // KS 120 EB & UG-L & R //  VECTURO OS 400 EQ-Set  // DSG-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 FH // HK 85 EB // HK 55 EB
Protool: 2x VCP 260 LE AC // PDP 20-2 // WCP-32
Mafell: MT55cc // P1cc // DD40P // Erika 85 Ec

Offline Distinctive Interiors

  • Posts: 362
  • Modern Kitchen Specialist
    • distinterior.com
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #77 on: March 14, 2019, 10:03 AM »
@

Festool does listen and is constantly out there in the real world collecting insight from their tool users.  It is commonplace for example to send out a team for an extended period of time with a product in development and take that to users for their input.  I know this to be true because I have met such team members and spoken to them.

There are members here on the forum who have been visited and involved.  I can't speak to their experiences directly other than to say they appreciated the experience and noticed the extensive note taking.

I have had such a visit as Peter described regarding a new tool that was/is still in development.

Their visit and questions & answers were very informative and after the guys left i felt both they and I came away feeling something had been achieved.

A few days later, I received a letter from the guys thanking me for the time I'd taken and input I'd provided them with. Along with the letter were a few items/gifts as a thank you.

All in, a positive experience. [thumbs up]

Edit. It was not a tool with dust extraction on it, as I do not like the new D/E ports either...!!
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 10:06 AM by Distinctive Interiors »

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 596
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #78 on: March 14, 2019, 10:05 AM »
So I came into things post the change. Hoses, tools, etc are all the "new design',   my TS55 did have what I would take to be the old, I bought the replacement part that makes it match the rest.  I did not like the original design my few times using the saw with it, the hose would come off.

I'm not sure what the issue is that people have with the "new", I suppose it could be a bit easier to get on. Of course I was using the tools for a while before I even realized there is a twist aspect too it.

I'm not sure its the design I would have developed. I probably would have liked something like some couplings have where the tools have a 360 degree groove, and the hoses have 2 buttons 180 apart, when you let go 2 nubs stick in, these fit to the groove,  so now the hose can spin on the fitting, but it held on, removing/installing hose is an easy operation butting the buttons on the hose and letting go, simple one hand operation.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6535
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #79 on: March 14, 2019, 11:15 AM »

I'm not sure what the issue is that people have with the "new", I suppose it could be a bit easier to get on. Of course I was using the tools for a while before I even realized there is a twist aspect too it.


For me it's always been the flat areas on the new connector gather a lot of dust and when you disconnect the hose, most of this dust drops on the floor. In my case it was white drywall dust on a black wool rug.  [crying]

Here's a shot comparing a new Pro 5 and an older style connection on an ETS EC 125. Both sanders were used on the same job and for approximately the same amount of time. The flat area on the bottom of the new connector has already jettisoned it's drywall dust on the floor  (you can see some of it on the base of the sander and some on the pad) while the other 2 flats on the new connector are at the ready to dump theirs if the sander is bumped.

« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 10:11 AM by Cheese »

Online Alex

  • Posts: 6155
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #80 on: March 14, 2019, 12:14 PM »
I don't understand why they just don't make all the tool connections like the one of the Rotex and the ETS EC pictured above. They are always rock solid thanks to the extra length. Even with older nozzles that got a bit sloppy.

Offline jonathan-m

  • Posts: 331
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #81 on: March 14, 2019, 12:52 PM »
I don't understand why they just don't make all the tool connections like the one of the Rotex and the ETS EC pictured above. They are always rock solid thanks to the extra length. Even with older nozzles that got a bit sloppy.
Vendor lock-in. Just like for example Apple uses lightning cables instead of USB for the iPhone/iPad. It's not 1 to 1 the same, but still, same principle. Encourage / nudge consumers to buy your other products as well.
By using this style connector it will work "best/better" with festool hoses and vacuums instead of just any other vacuum. It's to subtly encourage/push people to buy cleantec extractors, hoses and connectors. Push people to buy into "the system". Which will then encourage/nudge them to buy another Festool if they need to buy another kind of tool. Because, well they already have the Festool vacuum with the weird connector. It's probably best to buy another Festool, because that will connect best...

But i totaly agree with you. They should have just made a sublte change to the dust ports, with 1 or more ridges and everything would have been fine...
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 12:56 PM by jonathan-m »
Festool: 2x MFT/3 // OF-1400 // MFS-400 & 700 // RO-90 // SYS-ROLL // VAC-SYS SET SE1 // CT-ASA CT 26/36/SB // KS 120 EB & UG-L & R //  VECTURO OS 400 EQ-Set  // DSG-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 // DSC-AG 125 FH // HK 85 EB // HK 55 EB
Protool: 2x VCP 260 LE AC // PDP 20-2 // WCP-32
Mafell: MT55cc // P1cc // DD40P // Erika 85 Ec

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1225
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #82 on: March 14, 2019, 02:29 PM »
So glad I was able to get all the Festool tools I wanted that have dust collection ports on them right before they switched them all over to the new style!
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline morts10n

  • Posts: 220
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #83 on: March 14, 2019, 03:17 PM »
 On another annoying note, I purchased a 2nd generation hose (white wrapped hose)...while the new twist lock end is not a problem since my tools don't have the twist lock feature, the vacuum end is also different (with internal ribs), so that it doesn't fit over the intake of my Dust Deputy....this hose won't get used

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4268
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #84 on: March 14, 2019, 03:28 PM »
As long as we’re complaining about hose ends, and the Dust Deputy has been brought up, why is the input port on the DD tapered smaller instead of bigger? The downstream end of a hose should fit into rather than over that port. When you pull the input hose off the DD a ring of dust falls off the DD port.

If the DD input port was tapered out instead of in that sleeved Festool hose would fit right in as is.

Offline demographic

  • Posts: 536
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #85 on: March 14, 2019, 05:09 PM »
Well it would seem that Festool has seen the light and is now selling the old style hose adapter after all.



It will be offered in a presentation box along with a 18 volt impact screwdriver and a redesigned Kapex armature... Germany only though.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 804
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #86 on: March 14, 2019, 08:11 PM »
 [blink]

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 596
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #87 on: March 14, 2019, 11:20 PM »

Here's a shot comparing a new Pro 5 and an older style connection on an ETS EC 125. Both sanders were used on the same job and for approximately the same amount of time. The flat area on the bottom of the new connector has already jettisoned it's drywall dust on the floor while the other 2 flats on the new connector are at the ready to dump theirs if the sander is bumped.

(Attachment Link)

But it has "cleantech" molded right into it, therefore it's a clean technology, or are you implying the name of the product does not as a matter of fact state it's reality and in fact it might just be ironic?


Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6535
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #88 on: March 15, 2019, 01:33 AM »
But it has "cleantech" molded right into it, therefore it's a clean technology, or are you implying the name of the product does not as a matter of fact state it's reality and in fact it might just be ironic?

Ya I got a chuckle from that one when I looked at it.  How macabre...

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1356
Re: New Dust Extractor Ends
« Reply #89 on: March 15, 2019, 12:24 PM »
On another annoying note, I purchased a 2nd generation hose (white wrapped hose)...while the new twist lock end is not a problem since my tools don't have the twist lock feature, the vacuum end is also different (with internal ribs), so that it doesn't fit over the intake of my Dust Deputy....this hose won't get used

I noticed the same with the hose I recently bought. ticked me off. I will get a replacement hose end (from someone other than FT) so I can use the hose but won't bother buying any future Festool hoses that are incompatible with my current vacs, tools,  and hoses.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?