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Author Topic: kapex accuracy/adjustment  (Read 16046 times)

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Offline Caly

  • Posts: 58
kapex accuracy/adjustment
« on: January 02, 2011, 07:24 AM »
I am being humiliated by an old fixed head makita I gave to a colleague of mine..........& whats more by my old de walt i sold on ebay. They both mitre far more accurate than my kapex. So here I am Sunday 9.30 am, still here at12.15 trying to get the calibration re set, it is not easy.

So Questions.

1. does any one know of a fairly resonable way of making the adjustments. I know how to adjust, but every time tighned up it moves slightly.

2. Why haven't you, Festool put a fine adjustment on for the calibration, it could have so easily been included. :'(

Please a realistic answer, and dont answer if you are hung up on festool and can see no wrong or want to go into some crapy diatribe I dont have the patience.
There are some great articles on this forum and others who just think its their Sunday soap box ( thats diatribe for you)
 

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Offline jonny round boy

  • Posts: 3227
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2011, 07:54 AM »
Caly,

Welcome to the forum. It's always nice to have new members, especially UK members, but that's quite an agressive sounding first post! [scared]

Just so we all know, what method are you using for the adjustments now? Have you seen the Kapex Supplemental Manual? Calibration starts on page 24.

Hope that helps.
Festoolian since February 2006

TS55R EBQ saw - CTL26 - CTL Mini - OF1400EBQ router - KS120 Kapex SCMS - ETS150/3 sander - RO90 sander - DF500 Domino - PDC18/4 drill - PSC420 jigsaw - OFK500 trimmer

Wish list (in no particular order!): Anything not listed above....

Offline Caly

  • Posts: 58
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2011, 09:04 AM »
jonny round boy,

Hi And thank you for the reply.

Sorry if it sounds aggressive, really not an intention (but think the directness is a Yorkshire trait), hence complimenting the forum, however I read quite a few posts and some do go rather off tangent, I wasalso hungry the time. Found some Wensleydale cheese  so now feeling a lot better.

The manual, yes read it, but as i have found out there is no easy way to get it 100% accurate, so after the cheese on toast just persevered and kept cursing.

Believe I am 99.9% there.

Thanks again

Offline Rob Z

  • Posts: 1007
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2011, 09:24 AM »
Brice wrote a review of the Kapex...maybe that covers how to make this adjustment?

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7388
  • Remodeling Contractor
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2011, 10:03 AM »
Brice wrote a review of the Kapex...maybe that covers how to make this adjustment?

No, I didn't cover calibration in the review.  My Kapex is pretty dialed in after spending some time adjusting it.  There's no secret, it just takes a little time.   

Offline WarnerConstCo.

  • Posts: 4146
    • Warner Mill Works
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2011, 10:15 AM »
Mine was perfect out of the box and is still that way after a years worth of hard use.


Offline ccmviking

  • Posts: 411
    • Blue River Cabinetry Kitchen and Bath
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2011, 10:40 AM »

1. does any one know of a fairly resonable way of making the adjustments. I know how to adjust, but every time tighned up it moves slightly.

 

Don't loosen the screws very much and this won't be an issue.  You should have to tap the miter plate or saw head to get it to move (use a small block of wood and mallet) where you desire it to be.  Make very small changes and re-test. 

Offline Caly

  • Posts: 58
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2011, 10:55 AM »
I think the perseverance & gently with the mallet seems to be the best method.

What brought me to present the question was working with foil wrapped cornice especially white which when cut was was infinitesimally out, but due to material looked way out, with solid oak this did not present a problem.

I would have preffered it to come out of the box exact but it didn't and would stilll stress that for all who have to adjust it could have been made easier by festool.

Caly

Offline Taos

  • Posts: 227
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2011, 02:35 PM »
I know there is a website called This is Carpentry from Gary Katz and he shows how to adjust the Kapex. I have yet to see or hear of a Kapex that was adjusted accurately out of the box. Kinda bewildering at best but rest assured once set up it's a great saw.

Offline WarnerConstCo.

  • Posts: 4146
    • Warner Mill Works
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2011, 03:14 PM »
I know there is a website called This is Carpentry from Gary Katz and he shows how to adjust the Kapex. I have yet to see or hear of a Kapex that was adjusted accurately out of the box. Kinda bewildering at best but rest assured once set up it's a great saw.

Mine was perfect out of the box. Only thing I messed with were the laser's.

I had my Kapex tuned up after a year of hard use and the service guys at Festool told me when they went to check the adjustment's, it was still right on.

Mine has a tendency to be treated like a red-headed stepchild at time's.

Offline Jerry Sitton

  • Posts: 53
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2011, 05:54 PM »
Caly, when I took mine apart and put it back together, I needed to calibrate the fence again.
I have a fairly large T-square, similar to a sheetrock square, not as big. I've checked it with my
machined setup squares and it's right on.
They way I do it, is with the fence supports off of course, is leave the four hex bolts loose. I put my square
in line with the blade path and use it to check the blade travel. Set that square to the path of the blade to where the
blade and square are in alignment while running the full length of the blade travel. I then set my fence to the square
on the T portion where it's flat to it. Then I use the two material hold downs (I purchase a second one) to gently hold the fence in place square
with the T-square and very similar to bolting on a head on an automobile engine, I gently tighten in sequence of inside to out,
checking the fence to make sure I do not move it while doing this, until the torque is mild enough to hold it in place but not fully tight yet. Then
again run the slide in and out to make sure it's still good and then in same sequence finish tightening the four hex bolts.
I've never liked using a hammering action to set things in place when it comes to calibrating. I've not always been comfortable that
the whole fence is moving correctly at the same time. It's possible to move one side, since there could be enough flex to offset the fence
similar to a planer bed being offset to plane.
This is just one method, my humble suggestion, it works easy for me, hope this might help.
Oh, btw.... I have used a clamp on the T-square to hold it in place as well, but it wasn't too hard to hold it in place while getting it squared
to the travel of the blade.

Jerry

Offline Caly

  • Posts: 58
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2011, 12:49 PM »
Hi Gerry,

Thank you for your informed reply, and to everyone else.

I used the four cutting method for the square cut and think that is there now.

as to the mitres, I believe that the saw was not cutting square to the table, the adjustment of this is some what archaic, loosen the carriage bolts and tap one way or the other and keep checking, just so primitive for the festool school of thought.

caly

Offline Des##NZ

  • Posts: 3
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2018, 01:00 AM »
jonny round boy,

Hi And thank you for the reply.

Sorry if it sounds aggressive, really not an intention (but think the directness is a Yorkshire trait), hence complimenting the forum, however I read quite a few posts and some do go rather off tangent, I wasalso hungry the time. Found some Wensleydale cheese  so now feeling a lot better.

The manual, yes read it, but as i have found out there is no easy way to get it 100% accurate, so after the cheese on toast just persevered and kept cursing.

Believe I am 99.9% there.

6 hours later and I am 99.9 too. Wish I got one out of box at 100%

Thanks again

Offline Birdhunter

  • Posts: 3357
  • Woodworker, Sportsman, Retired
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2018, 04:38 AM »
I also get a perfect 90 degree cut bracing the wood against the left fence and a non-90 degree cut using the right fence. Yet, when I put a straight edge across the left and right fences, they seem to be coplaner. I dont understand this anamaly!
Birdhunter

Offline Peter Parfitt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
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  • Posts: 4431
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2018, 06:40 AM »
Hi @Caly

Once upon a time mine was near perfect out of the box but I hit it with a 6' long 5" square oak post that I had propped up and then had to get it right again.

I did use the excellent US Supplemental Manual but I did not mess around with the 5 cut test. Instead I did real cuts and took my 12" engineer's square to them. For fine adjustments I had the screws slightly lose (nipped but no more) and then tapped the mitre arm slightly with the plastic handle of a Pozi 2 screwdriver - in other woods, gently for each tap.

The bevel adjustment was not quite so easy but I have found that it stays square and rarely needs adjustment.

It was all a little time consuming but I got there in the end. I do re-check it from time to time normally just before doing special projects (desks etc).

I do not mean this to be a blatant plug but I can cut perfect 90, 30, 60 and 45 degree (mitred) cross cuts that always beat my Kapex using my TS55 on the custom MFT3 top that I created with the Parf Guide System. What I can't do using that setup is a really accurate bevel cut as the TS55 bevel adjustment is not up to it.

Good luck with the adjustments.

Peter

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2415
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2018, 09:50 AM »
Caly's problem was reported more than 7 years ago. I doubt if he still has those adjustment issues.

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 6610
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2018, 11:48 AM »
@Peter Parfit,


"I do not mean this to be a blatant plug but I can cut perfect 90, 30, 60 and 45 degree (mitred) cross cuts that always beat my Kapex using my TS55 on the custom MFT3 top that I created with the Parf Guide System. What I can't do using that setup is a really accurate bevel cut as the TS55 bevel adjustment is not up to it."

me to.

 Im thinking its the Kapex extension wings i use. I use the old style ones. Maybe I can use them without the crown stops and theyll hold their adj better

Offline glass1

  • Posts: 557
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2018, 02:50 PM »
If the blade is not parallel to the rails it is hard to get perfect cuts. Check the kapex to see if blade is parallel to the slides.

Offline SnowOwl50

  • Posts: 2
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2021, 11:17 AM »
I noticed that my Kapex was not in calibration anymore.  The Bevel angle at 90 was off and so was the miter at 90.  The miter adjustment is simple and you can easily use feeler gauges to get it dead on.  The Bevel angle is extremely difficult to adjust.  It took be two different attempts on 2 different days each attempt was about a 6 hour back and forth session of it getting better and worse  with it until I was finally just settled with it at -0.25 degrees out.  At which point I was figure it was good enough.  If I need it dead on, I can manually adjusted to be dead on.  Which I did and it will be good until I need to cut something at a bevel angle.

What is shocking is that even Festool Technical Service offers no tips or recommendations on how to setup/callibrate the bevel ange.
 I've always consider Festool to be a company that provide high quality service and support and value to their customers.  There is more details in the supplemental manual than the Festool service person knew.  He didn't even suggests the supplemental manual.
 He said that I can send it back to Festool to have them fix it for me, but he couldn't give me even an estimate of what calibrating the Kapex would cost.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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  • Posts: 4431
    • New Brit Workshop on YouTube
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2021, 12:39 PM »
I noticed that my Kapex was not in calibration anymore.  The Bevel angle at 90 was off and so was the miter at 90.  The miter adjustment is simple and you can easily use feeler gauges to get it dead on.  The Bevel angle is extremely difficult to adjust.  It took be two different attempts on 2 different days each attempt was about a 6 hour back and forth session of it getting better and worse  with it until I was finally just settled with it at -0.25 degrees out.  At which point I was figure it was good enough.  If I need it dead on, I can manually adjusted to be dead on.  Which I did and it will be good until I need to cut something at a bevel angle.

What is shocking is that even Festool Technical Service offers no tips or recommendations on how to setup/callibrate the bevel ange.
 I've always consider Festool to be a company that provide high quality service and support and value to their customers.  There is more details in the supplemental manual than the Festool service person knew.  He didn't even suggests the supplemental manual.
 He said that I can send it back to Festool to have them fix it for me, but he couldn't give me even an estimate of what calibrating the Kapex would cost.

@SnowOwl50

Get the US Supplemental Manual - it is excellent and can be downloaded from a link somewhere on the top line I think.

Peter

Online Peter Halle

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  • Posts: 12338
  • Remington Steele - My Third Boy
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2021, 02:32 PM »
Here is a link to the supplemental manual:  http://www.waterfront-woods.com/festool/Kapex_KS120.pdf

Peter Halle

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2415
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2021, 08:06 PM »
Since he mentioned about it, I'm under the impression SnowOwl already has the supplemental manual.

Tuning the Kapex or for that matter, any woodworking machine like the jointer or table saw, is a time-consuming undertaking, and often the desired result is not obtained after hours of work. I think the tuning and calibration process for the bevel cuts would still be frustrating with the help of the manual.

Some 6 years ago, it took me lots of scrap to get the miter scale dead-on for 90* and miter angles. At least, I was lucky that its bevel cuts were accurate. As I said before, many Festool machines may be tuned to spec. (within tolerance), but not necessarily to a user's expectation, based on my experience with the Kapex and TS75.

However, both the DF500 and SawStop were factory calibrated to the highest standards I've known. That's how premium tools and machines should be produced and delivered to a consumer in the first place.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2021, 07:41 AM by ChuckM »

Offline Dr. P. Venkman

  • Posts: 16
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2021, 08:20 PM »
Ha! I’ve got a giant pile of scrap an awful lot like that to clean up right now after spending last night and today calibrating my brand new kapex.

Given all the shattered styrofoam in the box, mine must have taken at least one pretty good tumble during shipping. I knew when I saw that that I was probably in for a bit of calibration.

I was actually surprised that both the miter gauge and the bevel still came within the factory tolerances (barely). I thought I could do better, though.

The miter gauge was pretty easy, but the bevel adjustment was a royal pain.

Tip for anyone trying to calibrate the bevel (that I figured out way too late): there is a point at the bottom of the bevel mechanism where it meets the base (the bevel mechanism moves and the base stays still). Draw a line with a pencil across that joint, and you’ll find it much easier to know how much you’re adjusting it. It’s still a pain, but the line helped me a ton.

Offline pettyconstruction

  • Posts: 649
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2021, 11:46 PM »
I have a Wexley digital angle thingy that helped me.
I used it for the bevel on the Kapex and my Saw Stop JSS.

I’m not sure,but I think it saved me some time , and scrap wood.
YMMV Charlie


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Offline Thomas Aronsson

  • Posts: 2
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2021, 01:45 AM »
Inspired by Peter Parfitts fantastic youtube channel I have now bought my kapex 120. To my dissapointment it do not cut square in the vertikal plane. After much testing I foundation out i is because the central rounded, moveable part of the sawtable is aprox. 0,6 mm lower. With a streightedge the sawtable is not coplanar.
I have not found information how to adjust this problem in the manuals refered to here.
With my digital Waxley angel-meter the blade is in perfect 90-degree
« Last Edit: February 07, 2021, 03:00 AM by Thomas Aronsson »

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 2415
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2021, 07:43 AM »
By straightedge, do you mean the board in your image?

Offline Thomas Aronsson

  • Posts: 2
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2021, 01:42 PM »
By straightedge, do you mean the board in your image?

Yes I know it is not a ”real” Straightedge, but I have checked it before the picture and it is perfectly straight. By making a new insert ( where the blad goes into the sawtable) so that the the workpiece lifted 1.1mm, I got perfectly square cut.
However, I would like to raise the round part of the sawtable instead, and make the insert flush

Offline FestitaMakool

  • Posts: 845
Re: kapex accuracy/adjustment
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2021, 03:39 PM »
Judging only, by what you say, and what can be seen in the photo, it looks if the saw has been dropped straight down. Severely.

How was the box when you received it? The styrofoam?
I would check with the dealer and Festool as it’s brand new?

There’s nothing new to transport damage.. who’s got the risk is often a discussion. Usually the dealer steps up, at least here.
My dealer here in Scandinavia prepared a return shipment for me when I experienced my severely damaged box with my table saw. In the end I decided to adjust and check myself with the dealers approval. I ended up reporting that the saw was ok after thorough adjustment.

If the bed is bent, I would send it in.
“The Stig” Yes, it is true, at least some part of it..
“If you have an old Land Rover and a fit wife, you’re most likely always busy”