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Author Topic: Exact Kapex Motor Changes?  (Read 7065 times)

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Offline Rick Herrick

  • Posts: 768
Re: Exact Kapex Motor Changes?
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2020, 11:20 PM »
Hey @Cheese.  I can appreciate the moving issue.  I can't imagine some of the gymnastics some of you have to do when going on job sites. 

What I still don't understand is the packaging/marketing.  As I understand it, the REB model is available now, and the mobile unit is available now.  But if I want to get them together and save $500, I have to order it and not get it until August.  Is that right ?  I hope I have that wrong as it sounds pretty silly to me.  I just built a decent cart with wings for my Bosch so I may as well use that and just get the saw soon.  I wanted to use the cart as a selling point when putting the Bosch on Craigslist.  Decisions, decisions...

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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 10295
Re: Exact Kapex Motor Changes?
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2020, 11:29 PM »
Hey @Cheese.  I can appreciate the moving issue.  I can't imagine some of the gymnastics some of you have to do when going on job sites. 

What I still don't understand is the packaging/marketing.  As I understand it, the REB model is available now, and the mobile unit is available now.  But if I want to get them together and save $500, I have to order it and not get it until August.  Is that right ?  I hope I have that wrong as it sounds pretty silly to me.  I just built a decent cart with wings for my Bosch so I may as well use that and just get the saw soon.  I wanted to use the cart as a selling point when putting the Bosch on Craigslist.  Decisions, decisions...

Rick I think you're understanding this correctly, I think the real issue is that Covid 19 entered at the wrong time and that any time schedules that were in concrete before this dilemma, are now up for grabs. If the pork industry in the USA is under siege, I think it's reasonable to assume that the manufacturing industry in Germany is also under siege.

Rest assured, the Kapex is a sweet saw and well worth its inflated price...it's pretty sweet.  [smile]

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 10295
Re: Exact Kapex Motor Changes?
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2020, 11:43 PM »
FWIW Rick...I'd just soldier along with the Bosch until this whole Covid 19 thing dissipates and we can get back to normal. So design and build what you need/want to build until August when the Kapex will finally possibly become available from Festool. It will be worth the wait.
Just make sure you get a 50 mm hose and a dedicated vac.

Offline MarcV

  • Posts: 51
Re: Exact Kapex Motor Changes?
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2020, 12:47 AM »
Ok you seem to very knowledgable in electronics. If you had to guess why does North America seem to have motor issues in North America vs other countries. At least thats what it seems reading through various Festool forums? The Miter Saws are assembled in Germany so I assume they are built the same when it comes to the 110v version. Did they send most of the bad batches to North America or is there something different here in regards to our power?

Running a motor on 110v instead of 230v results it twice the current but that causes four times the heat generated in the windings. If the motor was originally designed for 230v and then modified for 110v there may be just sufficient cooling capacity for normal continuous operation and anything that increases the heat can cause failure.

Festool originally suggested that lots of stop start quick light cuts could be a problem.

This was rejected by the users as they considered that this was light duty use and couldn't possibly be the problem but in fact this is the worst case senario as this creates extra heat without time to cool down.

230v motors can also have problems because I think that the design, to keep the weight down, is thermally very borderline.

thanks for the explanation. Do you think that knowing this Festool was able to make the motor better at cooling itself with the quick stop and start cuts? or is it a design problem with the whole motor? Based on your knowledge would you be leary of the redesigned motor?

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 1103
Re: Exact Kapex Motor Changes?
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2020, 05:23 AM »
Although I already owned Festool tools, and was/am extremely pleased with their precision, performance and accuracy. I was very much against the idea of buying a Kapex. Even so, I had a secret admiration for the saw.
I had colleagues that owned them, and often watched other trades using the Kapex, and my opinions of the saw in use were always respectful, as it’s definitely different from other saws in class.
I was, and still am very happy with my Makita mitre saws, which still get used on a regular basis. So I adopted the train of thought, that I won’t buy a Kapex simply because we didn’t need another mitre saw.

Last year, one of our Makita mitre saws met an untimely end, this was caused 100% by the lack of thought, and stupidity of the person using the saw. That person no longer works for us.  [doh]

The saw was so badly damaged, I decided to strip it for parts.
So, we were definitely now in need of another mitre saw. I nearly took the easy option of another Makita but, I’d heard a new Kapex was due for release which included all new electronics etc, and the cause of failure in previous EB models had been removed.

You see the single thing that kept me from buying a Kapex years ago, were the failures that were reported.
I had spoken to many people first hand regarding their personal experiences of failures.
The stories were varied to say the least, one particular one that stands out was a chap from a flooring company, I met on a large commercial site.

He had two 110v EB’s on site, at tea break I asked him his thoughts on the saw, he was basically in love with them.
As he told me more, I became puzzled at his affection for the saw.

The company bought two saws together, after about a year, they were so impressed that they bought another pair.
So, this company owns four Kapex EB’s, and they cut nothing thicker than 20mm, often hardwood but all sorts of hard and soft wood, from 20mm flooring, down to little mouldings and finishing trims and beads.
One morning one of the saws started smoking and would no longer run  [sad]

It got repaired under warranty but, a little while later, one of the other saws did the exact same thing. Again repaired under warranty.
To cut a long story short, they had two more failures, I can’t remember which saws failed, or if it was the same two but, the chap told me that two of the saws had failed three time apiece!  [eek]

He did have one or two failures that happened out of warranty, although Festool were kind to him on the cost, he still had to foot the bills.

I asked him, after he’d explained if he would ever buy another Kapex, yes he said I love them to bits. I must admit I was a bit puzzled by this. He explained though, that the saws had all more than earned their keep, and even paying the out of warranty repairs, he was still very much quids in. (Quid=£1)
This chap and his staff are all experienced and certainly didn’t mistreat any of the saws that failed.

I have a good few similar stories involving EB’s in both 110v and 240v from seasoned tradesman, where their saw has randomly died, and read and heard other failure experiences.
The fist hand stories really did put me off buying the Kapex completely. I was even told that EB’s from October 2017 were fitted with new parts that removed any risk of a failure.
At the time, I took it with a pinch of salt but, recently found that this seems to be true. Quite possibly Festool’s way of guinea pig testing before releasing a new saw the REB?

So, my fear had now been cushioned a fair bit by the news of new parts fitted etc, and my secret curiosity was still there.
As luck would have it, the REB was announced, and just after it’s launch, I bought one with the UG base/cart and extension wings.

It’s had regular use now, cutting all sorts, from small profile trims, up to 12” x 2” sawn timber.
In my opinion, it really is a great saw, and I now understand why, even with the potential risk of the earlier saws taking a dive, why people still took a chance and bought them.
They are compact, light compared to other brands in class, are capable of cuts up to 120mm deep, and the accuracy and dust collection is unrivalled, it has also served me a lot of humble pie!  [doh]
If one of our other saws needed replacing, I would buy another Kapex without a second thought.

Festool could have handled the failures much better (in my opinion) blaming user error, abuse etc, was rubbing lots of salt into costly wounds. They now admit they knew, or know about the cause of failures in a certain batch of saws.
Apparently, it is a batch (number unknown or stated) of saws that have the potential to start smoking.
Although a lot of reports, the actual number of failures to the number of saws sold, percentage wise is very low. Also, owners of older saws may well never have to suffer a failure (fingers crossed)

So, I would say, to anybody thinking of buying the earlier EB model, to be on the safe side, buy a 2018 model, and if it fails, question Festool on their claim regarding October 2017 models having the new components fitted.

Or buy the new REB model which also has the upgraded components, and just crack on.
Obviously the REB is way too new, to tell what the durability might be but, I like to think that Festool have now learned a lesson in treating customers like mushrooms. If there were a failure of a REB developing a smoking habit, I would expect honesty and transparency from Festool.

Luckily, there hasn’t been the number of failures reported on here, that there once was. That’s good news for the owners, and good news for the members here, that are almost certainly fed up with reading them.  [wink]

Offline Bohdan

  • Posts: 1024
Re: Exact Kapex Motor Changes?
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2020, 05:55 AM »
thanks for the explanation. Do you think that knowing this Festool was able to make the motor better at cooling itself with the quick stop and start cuts? or is it a design problem with the whole motor? Based on your knowledge would you be leary of the redesigned motor?

Don't know about the new motor but I have a Kapex that is still under warranty so it could be fitted with the new parts.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 1188
Re: Exact Kapex Motor Changes?
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2020, 09:33 AM »
There isn't one.  I babied my Kapex.  The motor still went out after eight years.  I ended up with a new one.  It's worth it to me but may not be worth it to others.  I get it.  The Kapex is overpriced compared to similar miter saws.  It is in a class by itself.  It should not go up in a puff of smoke.  I still love it.  Kapex = Contradictions
Mine made it about the same as yours. While disappointed I just moved on and had it repaired. Not a whole lot of things make it on 8 years of continuous use. Many mention DeWalt, but your mileage will vary. I have had two of their nail guns fail within 1 year of ownership. One I repaired and it broke again 6 months later. My PC framer from the early 90's finally gave up last summer. I sent it off to DeWalt for repair and though it was slow to be repaired it is once again as good as new. Before repairing it I had looked at just about every brand and could not find one that I liked as much so I went with the repair. Had I known it was only going to be $60 I would have sent it off when it went out of service.

Online SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 10140
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Exact Kapex Motor Changes?
« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2020, 10:31 AM »
FWIW Rick...I'd just soldier along with the Bosch until this whole Covid 19 thing dissipates and we can get back to normal. So design and build what you need/want to build until August when the Kapex will finally possibly become available from Festool. It will be worth the wait.
Just make sure you get a 50 mm hose and a dedicated vac.


   D36 Hose. Unless you are having good results with the 50 Cheese ?

Seth

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 10295
Re: Exact Kapex Motor Changes?
« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2020, 11:12 AM »

D36 Hose. Unless you are having good results with the 50 Cheese ?


Nope you're correct Seth, I should have said 3 meters of 36 mm hose.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1771
Re: Exact Kapex Motor Changes?
« Reply #39 on: May 08, 2020, 12:43 PM »
I should have said 3 meters of 36 mm hose.
Or, using the UG cart, put a MIDI below the saw and cut down the hose as short as you can without restricting movement of the head in any way or introducing tight bends. Shorter hose is IMHO better, it not only increases airflow but also shortens startup time (till airflow is at max) of the extraction.

Offline JM2715

  • Posts: 1
Re: Exact Kapex Motor Changes?
« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2020, 10:39 AM »
I have a 2016 Kapex and 2 weeks ago the motor went. I brought it to my local dealer (Warren Cutlery) and Jim sent it to Festool for me. It came back a week later with a new motor, brushes and the left side of the plastic housing that I requested to be replaced (it was damaged and the rubber boot could no longer clip on and it really effected the dust collection). It was beyond the warranty and they still did not charge me a dime, they even paid for return shipping. They may have even sharpened the blade as it cuts so great now. My only cost was $70 to ship it out to them and that's it. Both myself and Jim were elated and dumfounded. My saw never leaves my shop so it's in really good shape. The good physical condition of the saw may have had something to do with it.