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Author Topic: Dreading making this post....another TS75 not cutting square.  (Read 2471 times)

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Offline KelleyCrafts

  • Posts: 50
Hey everyone. I'm relatively new here, only a couple years active. More so lately that I've been stuck at home.

So my TS75 doesn't make square cuts, don't sigh too loud, I've read all of the MFT/3 square issue posts I can find. I've also tried more things than you can imagine, dumped hundreds of dollars into it as well. I know with no doubt in my mind the rail is square to the fence before I make the cut.

Here's what I have tried and spent a small fortune on:

Stock configuration, rail dogs, fence dogs, rail clips, Benchdog fence all together with fence dogs and rail dogs. I've even put UHMW tape on the stock sliders so they couldn't wiggle side to side when adjusting hight. I've changed blades, tried different rails, new splinter guards, clamped stock/unclamped stock, one handed push, two handed push, one hand holding the rail down, one pushing while one crosses fingers....I have a Woodpecker 1282 square AND the Woodpecker large MFT setup square so I know it's good between those two.

I have a metal mill and a metal lathe that I build stuff to .001 accuracy or better so I definitely know how to measure things.

It has to be the saw, I'm a pretty educated and a smart guy generally who can usually figure things out but I just don't understand how the saw could cut out of square from the rail that it rides on in a straight line but I'm at a loss at this point and need help. No clue what the deal is.

Please tell me there's something on the saw that needs fixed or adjusted before I go completely insane. I don't think there's another method I could try on the table between all of the products out there. I own most of them all at this point.

I'm always about 1/32-1/16 off of square unless I push EXTREMELY slow through the cut then I can get pretty consistent with 1/32 but I'm talking really slow cuts. I also sometimes hear a stutter or something coming from the saw. Doesn't happen on every cut but it happens. Regardless if it happens or not I'm still not 100% square ever. The cuts are square to the edges so they seem to be 90 degrees.

Any help I would appreciate it. I've done all of the obvious and tons of additional stuff. I've narrowed it down to the saw. There's just no way all of these other setups have failed.

Thanks for your time on my long winded post.



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Offline KelleyCrafts

  • Posts: 50
Re: Dreading making this post....another TS75 not cutting square.
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2020, 01:10 AM »
I forgot to mention, I have Seneca and Woodpecker parallel guides and have the same issue. I’ve covered all the bases I think.


Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 1111
Re: Dreading making this post....another TS75 not cutting square.
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2020, 03:30 AM »
Hi there, please don’t dread posting here, it’s one of the few sites I know of that has a community feel, and some friendly and very helpful members. Just post away.

It sounds like you’ve exhausted most of the tests and adjustments but, maybe watch this video by Peter Parfitt, on adjust the TS-55 saw which if I remember correctly, shares the same adjustments as the TS-75.



Hope this is of some help, and hope you get it sorted 👍🏻


Offline mrB

  • Posts: 885
Re: Dreading making this post....another TS75 not cutting square.
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2020, 04:31 AM »
Are your problems specific to the MFT?  If you draw a thin straight line on a board, can you line up your rail (freehand, no MFT) and cut that dead straight?
Wondering if you have a blade alignment issue that is causing the saw to drift in the cut. That would certainly explain why it’s slightly better at very slow feed speeds.

What have all your test cuts been in? Board or timber?
there's nothing like the right tool for the job

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 5228
Re: Dreading making this post....another TS75 not cutting square.
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2020, 06:31 AM »
“ Stock configuration, rail dogs, fence dogs, rail clips,”

It’s not clear what you’re cutting on when you get poor results. 1/32” out over what distance?

A stock configuration of the MFT does not include the rest of that stuff in the quote above.

The TS-75 is is too long for a stock MFT unless the blade is dead parallel to the rail. If there is ant toe in or out the whole length of the cut won’t be cut the same amount by the blade. The entire blade has to start (be fully plunged) before the wood and stay fully plunged (for the depth the wood requires not all 75mm the saw is capable of) until it passes the other end of the wood.

Please fully describe a typical setup with dimensions.

Offline KelleyCrafts

  • Posts: 50
Re: Dreading making this post....another TS75 not cutting square.
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2020, 09:49 AM »
Jiggy, great video, I have not seen it, I think that will be helpful.

mrB, I have tried just marking two points and throwing a rail on and I get the same results. I've used parallel guides as well with no success. I've been testing on 3/4 ply and 3/4 surfaced soft maple to see if there's a difference.

Michael, what you say makes a lot of sense. That leads me back to the video Jiggy posted so I'll definitely take a look.

When I said “Stock configuration, rail dogs, fence dogs, rail clips,” Those are all different attempts with different methods all discussed in the various MFT threads that have been on here. I own them all now just trying to get square cuts off this thing.

Good point on fully plunging for the cut. I do that if there's room and most of the time there is. I'll be out 1/16" over 16" almost always unless I push the thing super slow, then I can get to 1/32" usually pretty consistently.

Hopefully I answered everyones questions. I have some maple dimensioned to 1.25" thick in the shop right now for a project I'm working on, I'll set the rail over that and line it up with the splinter guard to see if it's toed in or out a little later today. I have to work the regular job first although I did put a new splinter guard on during this process and it's the same distance from the aluminum the length of the rail. I'll still check it out.

I've used this saw for rough cuts since I've owned it (November 2018) and couldn't seem to get the square cuts everyone else was getting.I would however like to transition this saw into a reliable saw in my workshop and get away from more dusty options. So getting this thing square is a priority at this point. A challenge really.

Offline KelleyCrafts

  • Posts: 50
Re: Dreading making this post....another TS75 not cutting square.
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2020, 09:55 AM »
Thinking about it more after that last post I really think Michael and Jiggy are on to something.

The new splinter guard is nice and straight because the saw wasn't plunged far at all to cut it. The deeper I plunge the more the toe in or out would show up as the teeth get further apart with more blade showing.

I'm optimistic on this one. Looking forward to checking it out this evening.

Thanks!

Offline thudchkr

  • Posts: 176
Re: Dreading making this post....another TS75 not cutting square.
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2020, 10:25 AM »
One pertinent item I didn't see in your post was the adjustment of the saw to the track.  When you put the saw on the track, are you able to rotate the saw any?  If so, a small creep in one direction, or the other, could cause some of the misalignment you are describing.  I would clamp down the track and see if the saw rotates any in order to rule out that possibility.
Clint

Offline KelleyCrafts

  • Posts: 50
Re: Dreading making this post....another TS75 not cutting square.
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2020, 10:33 AM »
@thudchkr I didn't list that, sorry. It's definitely tight to the track. That was actually the first thing I checked ages ago and continually check it to be sure it doesn't get loose.

Thanks for the input. I'll take any suggestions at all, even if I did do them and failed to mention them (It's been a long journey of messing with this thing). I've still use it frequently to break things down but never to final dimensions. I would love to change that, pretty spendy saw to just break things down to manageable sizes.

Offline thudchkr

  • Posts: 176
Re: Dreading making this post....another TS75 not cutting square.
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2020, 11:46 AM »
It sounds like the blade is not parallel to the track.  Have you checked to see if the blade is parallel to the groove on the baseplate of the saw, specifically to the portion on the blade side of the groove that rides against the track?

I would try setting the track on a section of wood and with blade at full depth, make a stopped cut about 2' long.  You don't want to cut through the length of the piece, instead stopping somewhere's in the middle.  Stop the saw, retract, and return to your starting point.  Start the saw, and again with blade at full depth, cut again in the slot you just created.  Stop this cut about 4 to 6'' before the end of your first cut.  This should indicate which way your baseplate might be misaligned with respect to the saw blade.

If it is misaligned, the procedure for setting multiple saws to cut the same on a rail, from the supplemental manual for the TS-55, would be a good way to correct the issue. 

Hope this makes sense.  If not feel free to PM me and I can try to clarify.
Clint

Offline KelleyCrafts

  • Posts: 50
Re: Dreading making this post....another TS75 not cutting square.
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2020, 11:55 AM »
Thanks @thudchkr I will definitely hit you up if I need to, you have no idea how frustrating this has been, I almost just gave up on the saw but I keep reading people saying how nice their cuts were and "better than a table saw accuracy" and I just couldn't resist this challenge. From the looks of it I just didn't account for the saw itself in the mix.

I'll follow the video from Peter that Jiggy sent over this evening to see if that handles it. Like I said before, I have some 1.25" maple pieces I'm using for a project, I can stack those two high under the rail to get the blade extended 2.5" and set parallel to the splinter guard and the saw as it sits on the track. This is sounding promising for sure. I'm hopeful at least.

Offline KelleyCrafts

  • Posts: 50
Re: Dreading making this post....another TS75 not cutting square.
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2020, 06:09 PM »
Update, I followed Peter’s video up to the point where he does the 45 degree cuts, I didn’t do that part at the moment. I will say, my saw didn’t look off but I did the procedure anyway.

Did the five sided cut to check for square and I’m about .35mm/.01478” off from square Over 420mm/16.5” total so that’s pretty good I think. Definitely far better than where it was.

Definitely appreciate all of your help in pointing me in the right direction. Hopefully this helps someone else in the future.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2020, 11:20 PM by KelleyCrafts »

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 1111
Re: Dreading making this post....another TS75 not cutting square.
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2020, 06:59 PM »
@KelleyCrafts  Glad you seem to be getting somewhere, sounds like you’re cutting much closer to square now  [thumbs up]

Precision tools aren’t much fun without the precision  [wink]

Offline KelleyCrafts

  • Posts: 50
Re: Dreading making this post....another TS75 not cutting square.
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2020, 07:29 PM »
Thanks @Jiggy Joiner i appreciate it.

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
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  • Posts: 9619
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Dreading making this post....another TS75 not cutting square.
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2020, 11:02 PM »
Update, I followed Peter’s video up to the point where he does the 45 degree cuts, I didn’t do that part at the moment. I will say, my saw didn’t look off but I did the procedure anyway.

Did the five sided cut to check for square and I’m about .035mm/.01478” off from square Over 420mm/16.5” total so that’s pretty good I think. Definitely far better than where it was.

Definitely appreciate all of your help in pointing me in the right direction. Hopefully this helps someone else in the future.


Either the mm or the inch is off by a zero.

Seth

Offline KelleyCrafts

  • Posts: 50
Re: Dreading making this post....another TS75 not cutting square.
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2020, 11:22 PM »
Thanks @SRSemenza i did a quick conversion. I measured in imperial so the metric was off. I fixed it in the post.

Thanks for catching that.

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 9619
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Dreading making this post....another TS75 not cutting square.
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2020, 11:50 PM »
So roughly a 1/64" at 16".   So 3/32" at 8'. Hmmm,  I'd be curious what you get doing a full eight foot cut (or at least a longer one).

Seth

Offline KelleyCrafts

  • Posts: 50
Re: Dreading making this post....another TS75 not cutting square.
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2020, 12:05 AM »
I have some 21” rip cuts to make this weekend. I’ll do them in the mft and see if the results are consistent. Just for curiosity sake. I know it’s not 8’ but I just did the 5 cut method with the stock fence and guide rail support with plywood, these cuts will be in ambrosia maple. I’ll throw the bench dog fence on there (it’s taller) and be sure the fence is still square at the 3/4” thickness. It should be but you never know, results might be better even.

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 6714
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Dreading making this post....another TS75 not cutting square.
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2020, 10:10 PM »
If ya followed the double Ps video he would have you tighten the 2 green cams on the side of the saw and loose them to stop the side to side movement.

Another thing is to check if your rail is straight. Theyve been known to get bent a little.

Look at your cutting technique, stand behind the saw hand on the handle from behind letting the saw do the work

finally get yer self a saw slop to help eliminate the slop the rail has when the MFT stop sets in the rails groove.

https://www.toolnut.com/tool-improvements-slop-stop-for-festool-mft-tables-and-rails.html

Offline KelleyCrafts

  • Posts: 50
Re: Dreading making this post....another TS75 not cutting square.
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2020, 10:19 PM »
Thanks Jobsworth, have the slop stop already. Rail is straight, in fact even used two different rails.

Saw did great this weekend. I was able to get it even closer just taking my time and going through the motions.

I think I’m set now. I appreciate everyone’s input, it definitely solved the problem.

Definitely thankful for the mini split, looks like we broke 100 today.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 1111
Re: Dreading making this post....another TS75 not cutting square.
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2020, 01:35 AM »
Glad you got sorted, nothing worse than doubt, especially when building anything to tolerance.

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 6714
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Dreading making this post....another TS75 not cutting square.
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2020, 09:55 PM »
@KelleyCrafts

>>Definitely thankful for the mini split, looks like we broke 100 today.<<

You must be near me

Offline KelleyCrafts

  • Posts: 50
Re: Dreading making this post....another TS75 not cutting square.
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2020, 10:37 AM »
@jobsworth

I'm on the other side of town, Chandler.

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 6714
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Dreading making this post....another TS75 not cutting square.
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2020, 12:17 PM »
Cool so theres 3 of us here you me and Don T

Offline KelleyCrafts

  • Posts: 50
Re: Dreading making this post....another TS75 not cutting square.
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2020, 12:32 PM »
Nice, I know that Half Inch Shy is here as well. I could tell from his videos which have been helpful. I'm not sure he posts on here much anymore.